Why Do People Act Like That? Live Q&A with The Behavior Panel

All right, we're doing another live today, and we're just going to answer your questions. And if you have anything special, anything about a body language cue or anything like that, let us know. There's some things we're going to cover in the next show. We're going to cover the Clancy stuff. Roy's going to be asking about that. We're going to cover all those things. But ask us anything you want. And you guys, you got your questions up? See, somebody likes my hot chick, my Hattie B shirt. It's just, there is probably one person out there. Witty. No, there's a lot of people that like hot chicken. Melanie, in from Wales. Melanie, good to see you. Germany. What does a lot of shoulder shrugging mean? Who wants to go with that one? Shoulder shrugging. You know, it depends. I'll jump in first. If it's single shoulder, then we think, eh, something's uncertain for the person. But helplessness looks like shoulder shrugging. Some people just do it because they do it. And then Chase, I know one of your favorites ever is Teresa Balboa. You can talk about her shoulder shrugging with the missing child. Yeah. And that was like the little bouncing thing. It's hard to do. It's hard to replicate it. But yeah, I think most shoulder shrugs, like the origin of the double shoulder shrug, is almost has a, if we had body language etymology, this would go back to an apology. It's like, well, I don't know where it is. I don't know where it is. It's almost like you're saying, I'm kind of, I'm sorry at the same time. So I think the behavioral etymology, damn, hard to say. I think you stole Mark's. You must have been buried in his yard, not Scott's. Yeah. I'll have to mention Shakespeare just once on this live and that'll be fine. Do it. Do it. The shoulder shrug where it stays there, that would essentially be turtling, wouldn't it? Where you are protecting the carotid arteries here, maybe a little bit of the windpipe as well, perhaps if you kind of tuck in, tuck in here. I don't know what happens to me when I instantly put on a hell of a lot of weight if I do that. So that's Prince Andrew. That's Prince with the goiter. Yeah. Ordinary shooting weekend. I want a sticker of Mark screenshotted in that position. You don't think I'm going to grab that, dude? You know you can't do anything without Scott grabbing it. Chase, someone says, if you need help, blink four times. Over what period? Four times over what time period? Over a split second, yeah. Hey, somebody asked, what's the number one red flag in a person's body language? I've been paraphrasing. You guys want to jump on that one? I mean, simple answer. Gosh, I mean, I don't have a simple answer for that. I'd love to get a simple answer for that. Number one red flag. I mean, nothing individual, but I guess, look, we're looking for a significant change from, just significant change. And what is significant change? Well, I don't know. I'd have to be there. I'd have to be there to baseline the person or get some sense of that to think to myself, well, that is significant. And then I've got to test, is it significant? So it's tricky. I can give you one to look out for. All right. Is if you're talking about something extremely exciting or something that's extremely sad, and you don't see that reflected on the face of the other person, or you see the opposite reflected on the face, that is a big deal. It means you might be dealing with somebody that God is obsessed with, psychopath. But then you've got to be certain that it is universally significantly happy or significantly sad. Yeah. Like it's well understood. It's well understood, yeah. And culture, and culture, right? I missed the question. I was looking at questions. What was the question? I'm just asking you that question in the question. It's a what? Universal red flag. Is there one? What do you think? Oh, oh, oh. Or number one red flag, yeah, if you're looking. Yeah, you know, I agree with you guys. I think it's change, and it's dramatic change. Or something, if the person's always done X or Y, and they suddenly don't do it to the same stimulus, something's up. Hey, what do you guys think about mirror neurons? Yeah, they're great. Is there a question about them? Yeah, they're starting to come into question now, whether they're actually valid or not. So I got three months of work to jump in there and see what's up. I haven't read the most recent studies. Look, we know that people are designed to understand what other people are going through and to figure it out. There's mirror neurons. It's some chemical empathy, whatever it is. We're designed to be able to pick up on what people are doing. If you don't believe that, go to a funeral, go to a place. You don't even know the person. You can feel that emotion and those kinds of things. Now, I don't know if I believe it's nuanced, like you're bound to subatomic particles. I'm not sure the current science is suggesting there is a mirror neuron. I think, however, there is clearly a connection of neurons that allow the human being to mirror. But a mirror neuron, I'm not sure that that is a thing. What do you think, Chase? Yeah. The mirror neurons, well, they're not labeled scientifically mirror neurons, but they're on the lateral surface of this part of our brain that Scott loves to talk about, called the locus coeruleus. This is also how we recognize facial expressions and emotion in other people. Basically, the way they work is they send a little simulated emotion of what we're witnessing in someone else to help us imaginarily go through what's going on in somebody else's face. So it's the positioning of them and the connectivity of them rather than the neuron itself. Would I be right? Yeah. Yes. Which is why the terminology mirror neuron is like... I think we know more about other galaxies than we know about the human brain. We know almost nothing about how it functions truly and how it actually works. Here's a great question, guys. Does trauma affect body language? Absolutely. I think I say this all the time. From the minute you're born to the minute... I usually say from the minute you get slapped on the ass to the moment they close the box, human life is trauma. You're dealing with the unexpected, you're dealing with complex problems, and your brain has to figure out how to work through those. A lot of what makes us poised is trauma. A lot of people get more poised due to trauma if they can get through the trauma. They have to have healing and that kind of stuff. But if you've had little trauma, anything exciting that comes at you is probably going to be a little bit more... You're going to respond to a lot quicker. That's all I'm going to say. A lot of the research goes back to this guy named Bessel van der Kolk. He wrote a book called The Body Keeps the Score about how trauma inhabits the body and changes behavior. I'm paraphrasing, but a great idea from the book was that trauma and severe stress turn muscles into armor. It can do this in what he called a completion cycle over time, where one part of the body stays way more rigid than the other, especially during times of stress. It's also true to say that pleasure as well will change behavior. It's not all negative. To quote Samuel Beckett, they are born astride a grave. It's a pretty bleak idea that all life is challenge and some of it is actually quite pleasant. Yeah, look at Hunter S. Thompson. Hey, who is Aaron Rodgers? Somebody said it was our take on Aaron Rodgers. Yeah, we did him before. He's a quarterback. We did him... I don't even remember that. Four or five years ago. I don't remember that either. He was a quarterback for Green Bay. We covered him a while back. Anybody in here play football? No. Me either. I did, but I didn't. I think it's fair to say that none of us here look like football players. That's pretty right. I remember one time in rehearsal, I remember telling the coach, I was like, hey man, this is bad for our brains. This is not good. I'm not going to say I quit. I'm going to say I stopped going soon after that. Well, you're only going to use your brain until you don't use it anymore. So what are you worried about? Yeah, no, because you know, CTE and all that stuff. I didn't know about CTE, but I knew our brains were bouncing around our heads when we would hit like that. I was a soldier for most of 20 years and Chase was in the Navy. He didn't have to do some of the same things, but we go through a bunch of stuff that is liable to give you concussions. And then I have a hobby where I get hit in the head with a stick every now and then. So I would say I got an excuse. His hobby is being married. Here's a great question right here from return of the... I can't read it, but would body language experts be able to help people pull off feats of deception? Of course. It would be horrific if we couldn't. I'm not going to tell you who, but I've been... Oh, Scott's frozen. Yeah, look at that. That's a great example of it. If only Scott knew a little more body language, he could be more deceptive. Yeah, you know, there are reasons to teach people to use body language and behavior to be believed believable when they are lying. I'll just leave it at that. A bull. Yeah, yeah. Like we're increasing possibility, but not like... Because the lower part of the brain, the mammalian part of our brain is in charge. That's the part that beats your heart while you're sleeping and your lungs and... Breathing and breathing. Totally in charge. And that's also where a lot of our emotions are. Most, if not all of them, are coming out of that area and it still leaks out. That's why, because that part of the brain tells the truth all the time. Well, and Chase, the thing... We go back to Sear. We will never talk about what we do in Sear, but we inoculate you against responding to that stimulus is what it's all about. And you can remember the things that were done to you there, your brain was trained not to respond to that specific kind of stimulus. So Liz Whitty here says, doesn't Mark do that with politicians? Well, to a certain extent, yeah. But ultimately, politics is the business of people having choice. And so what you're trying to do with politicians is cause them to communicate in such a way that people will be open to more choices rather than sticking with what they've got. Look, it's okay for anybody to stick with what they've got, so long as they're still making choices. They understand all the possibilities in front of them. And the work you try and do with a politician is help other people be open to more choice. So it's not necessarily this idea of causing them to be better at deception. It's not really that. And you know what? All four of us have been lied to without us ever knowing that it happened. It's not that every single time someone's telling a lie, there's this cornucopia of body language. If only you had the right little vision to be able to see it. Sometimes people just don't give a ---- and they just don't care that they're lying. So there's no stress and nothing shows up. Yeah, I mean, look, the reality is if I go and watch a film and all the time I was there going, no, you're acting. It's a puppet. That's so boring. You have to be able to be lied to. You have to be open to suspend your disbelief and be open to the lie as well. The world is very unentertaining. It's really hard to watch military movies for that reason if you're a military guy. But there must be some. Let's go with this, Greg. What is your favorite military movie? If there was one to watch, what would it be? You know what the weirdest one is? I'm going to tell you about a single scene in a movie that encapsulated, summed up a war for me. Right. There's a scene in Three Kings. You know this movie? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. In Three Kings where they have the goal and they're moving through and they're going through this little air village and they're playing French music on the thing and they got gas masks on and chaos is going on all around them and these people are sitting eating, doing whatever. That reminds me of war. It just sums it up. That simple scene because it's a lot less chaotic in some places and a lot more chaotic in others. And there's some really good combat movies that are brutal. But yeah, that whole concept that war is not happening all over the place at the same time is the piece that's hard for most people to understand. The ending scene of Hurt Locker. I don't know if you saw that when he's in the grocery store. I wept watching that. It's a super accurate movie, the whole thing. All right, let's get back to the questions. Nice shirt, Mark. That's a statement, not a question, but I thought it's right out there. Well, you're correct. It is a lovely shirt. It's a netro shirt. It's a pretty old one. It's a good 10 years old, this particular shirt. Let's see. If a company is in trouble, if they're trying to keep it from the employees, is there corporate body language in terms of decisions being made, choices of words, updates, et cetera, that can warn you? Greg, you want to go on that one? Well, any corporation you're going to deal with that has any kind of leadership team is going to have a communications person on that team. And that communications person is going to be very careful with what they say, how they say, and when they say it. And there'll be a comprehensive approach to communication. But still the person delivering it, whoever that person is, you look for deviations in their baseline. If it's a person you see all the time, we're back to that limbic thought Chase was just talking about. The base of your brain is going, oh, there's a threat. That person's going to kind of panic. And you'll start to see increases in blink rate, increases in respiration, guarding, maybe more adapters, releasing nervous energy, those kinds of things. Those are good indicators a person's feeling uncomfortable. But there's no body language that's going to scream at you if the guy is polished and really good at what he does. I've known CEOs that could stand and deliver right in front of you and all behind the scenes know that things are falling apart. And a sharp increase in legal language from upper management that's flowing downward or a slight increase over time. Yeah, slight. If you get a really good communications team, that's Chase to your point. That's a good communications team. We'll clean some of that up. Here's somebody else saying we need to look at the Patrick Clancy case. I like when we first started this thing a few months ago. That we're going to do that. So we're just, we're not doing it today. But we've got eclipsed rating and we'll be doing it probably. Are we going to do it? Oh, it'll be next week when we do it. But we're going to get that done. So it's not a problem. I'm glad you asked. Can you read that big yellow question? Yeah. Can a person convince themselves of a lie so completely that behaviorally it becomes indistinguishable from their truth? Yeah. Totally. If they believe it, yeah, there's no stress with that. It just comes right out, you know? I get in arguments with people who don't know the facts. And you're wasting your time arguing with a person who doesn't know facts if they're not going to listen to the truth. Yeah, because we often talk about, oh, you know, they look really credible. And so that credibility is just belief. So if somebody doesn't have all the facts, they're undoubtedly going to believe. And they're undoubtedly going to come across as credible. Though they might be talking complete nonsense. There's one really good one from Chris. Does an autism diagnosis affect your ability to read a person? I don't think the diagnosis affects anything. I was reading that. The condition of autism is what does it. But Mark, what do you think about this? You have some knowledge on this. Yeah. So I mean, I mean, it's a spectrum. So it depends where exactly. Depends where. And it depends how that autism is expressing itself. You know, might call it the symptoms that come with that. So it's really too hard to say. But certainly there are people who maybe say they're autistic and would be autistic, potentially would get that diagnosis, who find it very difficult to read nonverbal behavior. There are other people with autism who are exceptionally good. So I think it's very variable. Any other thoughts from anybody else on that one? You nailed it, I think. Yeah. That was what I was going to ask. You beat me to it there, Chase. Nobody's asking psychopath questions. I'm going to have to sit over here with my dang mouth shut. I'm sitting here deleting them all. Oh, I see. No chicken, no psychopaths. Hot chicken. Let's see. After watching this show, I can help. No, go ahead, Scott. Sorry. I'm just a statement. After watching this show, I can help but notice people's blink rates while they speak. It's a good catch. You should pay attention to that. So good for you. Okay. Interesting one here that leads on from something else we were talking about. Would a narcissist believe their own lies and delusions? Nope. No. In fact, less than other people. Because narcissism is like rooted. The parent mother of narcissism is insecurity. Everything is downstream of insecurity in narcissism. One of the first things ever heard is if you scratch a narcissist, you'll find self-loathing. Yeah. And when you're hearing them lie like that, when they do these ridiculous lies, do they get mad when they're lying? Because they're having to justify that to themselves as well. They know it's not this wonderful thing that they supposedly believe in or have done or something that's great that's not that they've created or whatever. They're having to reconcile that inside their head. So there's that argument in the head going on. They feel horrible about themselves in the first place. They loathe themselves. And then you have that happening, which makes it even worse. That's why sometimes they're so dang mean. Because they get angry and then they get super angry because they know it's true, whatever you're butting up against. But they're having to defend it to guard that ego. That's their main goal in life is to guard the ego. So that's a good question. So here's a really nice one. How can you listen and pay attention to body language at the same time? So how can you listen to what somebody's saying and see what they're doing at the same time? It's a great question. It's the same thing, pretty much. Because if they're, for example, like I always give one of my favorite things is illustrators. While they're talking, if their illustrators don't land where they're supposed to, that's a heads up. It all kind of goes together. It works together as a machine. It should flow together. So if you start seeing things that don't go along with what they're saying, that's when you get a heads up and start looking for your cluster at that point. You're probably looking for it anyway. But when you see one thing that doesn't sound right, then you sort of zero in a little bit. You'll see all these little things happen that shouldn't be going on in there. Or that will be odd for that situation if you know what to look for. You're designed for it. We're designed to listen and look. Here's a great question. Empathy is the way that that happens. We're looking at the person as another like suffering, like flawed human being instead of a spreadsheet of data helps a whole lot. Here's a great question. InquisitivelyMe2026 says, can a criminal be traumatized by their own crime? Hell yeah. You see that a lot. They're human beings. You occasionally see somebody who comes apart and just gushes and tells you what they did that was wrong. For me, it's weird when you see somebody who accidentally kills somebody or does whatever and then they try to hide it and then it cascades and cascades and cascades. Those are the best shows for us. But we've had a couple on here where the guy comes in and just goes, I did something horrible and he's traumatized. There's a question right here that says, how do you parent as a body language expert? I suck reading my kid's body language because of this thing that's been documented called truth bias. When we love somebody, we want to see them a certain way. Our brain will literally not just ignore something, it will delete it from our reality. I got good when my kids were a lot younger, they were easy, and then I would start calling little things out. So I, at the same time, became less aware of their deception indicators and was training them on what they were doing wrong and teaching them unknowingly to be good at it, I think. Here's one. Does a person's culture play a role in their behavior and body language? That's one of the biggies. That's one of the first things you look for. You decide whether the behavior you're seeing is something that's cultural or is it limbic. Is it something coming from when they are doing this, does that mean yes or no? When they're doing this, does it mean yes or no? Because all those things mean something different in different cultures. So you got to make sure that the behavior you're seeing is, you got to decide whether it's something limbic or it's something cultural. The big difference, and a lot of them, in the Middle East, as you know, they'll walk up and talk to you this close. You know, it's weird looking. Greg, you're good at this kind of stuff. It's not weird if you're there. The key becomes where you are. Americans are at a distance and it's odd. What I would tell you is, yeah, I believe limbic and culture matter. I think there's a whole lot of other stuff in between that can cause a person to do a lot of signaling that may or may not be odd. The interesting piece for me is when we say culture, most people think of the Southeast or culture as a big regional thing. It's much more complex than that. I'm dealing with people who work on Wall Street, who work in financial institutions. And I'll say that one of my guys will read a book and say, hey, this guy says do that. I said, that will get you killed. Don't do that in your current environment. I don't mean literally killed. I mean career death. Because cultures are designed to grind off the corners and make you fit into the mold that that culture, how that culture works. So there's really nuanced stuff. If you work around a bunch of these traders and these kind of guys up in New York, you'll discover very specific, dense language they use. And I've just used Scott's specific words and phrases in my hands there, as I should. But as you look at those things, you realize that the subtlety of that can't be communicated to people from a distance because they'll call out something that's not real. So my description of culture is that it suppresses and or amplifies what we all do anyway. So sometimes it's suppressive. Sometimes it amplifies. You've also got to bring time into time and context. So, for example, you often hear somebody say, oh, you know, they don't do that over there, do they? It's like, hmm, they do. It's just you've never got to see it, which says more about you than it does about them. You haven't been allowed into the time and the place when they do that. And the suppression is taken off. And now that behavior is incredibly amplified. So, you know, we often find in cultures that we go around going, oh, they never do that. Or they always do that. They don't always do it. Right. Sometimes when it's massively suppressed. You only need to see one thing. Watch the Amish kids when they go out to the city for the first time. And that's it. That's pretty cool. Here's one from a behavioral health perspective. What are the most reliable signs that someone is making genuine, sustained progress in treatment, e.g. mental health diversion? We're not psychologists. What was the start of that question? I missed the start of that question. From a behavioral health perspective, what are the most reliable signs someone is making genuine, sustained progress in treatment? Oh, well, I mean, it depends what they're being treated for. So what's the result that they're trying to get? Yeah. And are they moving towards that? Are they showing behaviors or even able to report those behaviors or report the thoughts of the sense that they're getting better around those behaviors? Or is there an alternate reason for them to demonstrate that behavior? Right. It's usually awareness, acknowledgement, and improvement. I mean, like you're noticing improved, but awareness and acknowledgement, somebody apologizing when they catch themselves doing it and being openly acknowledging it. Guys, we got a Louis Boxing gave us five pounds. Have you seen interviews from fighter pilot, Commander David Fravor on the 2004 Tic Tac UFO incident? A fascinating detail, methodical account. Yeah. You want to jump in? No deception. Right. Same. That I saw zero. Yeah. Talking of money being given here, Kelly Tinker, $1.99 for Chase's back. I mean, listen, Kelly, save your money. Kelly. Well, thank you, Kelly. Listen to this. When did you all start to realize you were no longer learning from the experts, but becoming the experts, pushing your respective fields further while still learning from the other people? About three weeks in. I still don't feel like an expert expert. Me either. I'm not there yet. But what gets on my last nerve, you know what irks me? You all know what it is that I want to talk on it. It's people who have got the bad information that are out there on YouTube and Tic Tac, just throwing it out like, you know what? And they're doing that number, the one Chase and I hate so much. And they're pointing and something's going up there. Watch this. And they're like saying no, but they're shaking their head no while they're saying yes. And it's perfectly in rhythm. It's confirming what they're saying. And they say, that person's lying. It's like, oh my God, I'm about at my wit's end on that. You know, I'm going to stop lying about it right now. Look, expert is an odd title to use, though I certainly use that title. But I'm cognizant that it's a really odd title. But it's a helpful way for some people to get in. But is it the thing? No, it's a helpful doorway. The idea of going, so I'm an expert in this. It's a helpful doorway for people. But it isn't the actual thing. You know, Mark, I usually say expertise is the intersection of human knowledge and usability, meaning it applies to your life. If what we're doing is just sitting here and pontificating, it has no value in my opinion. But if what we're doing has value in your life, and it can change outcomes and affect mechanically your life, then that's expertise to me. So it's a hard one. You rarely hear me say, if you look at my title, it's former Army interrogator, interrogation instructor, resistance interrogation instructor, written 10 books on body language and behavior. Expert's a hard word for a person to label themselves. And if somebody jumps off the plate with it first time you see them, it's awkward. Well, I do jump off the plate with it. But hopefully I'm not, you know, it's not the first time you've seen me. But again, I'll say it's a plate to jump off that can give enough people enough entry that then they actually get to taste what you have. And then the proof is in the pudding. Like, if you look at my content, if you take my help, and it's not helpful, well, you know, I'm no expert for you. Clearly, you know, I did invite you in. I did get you in. Really well said, Mark. Yeah. Please review Murder in the Valley. Need your take. That's from K.P. Moselit. What is Murder in the Valley? I don't know. It's a new show. We'll have to find it out. You know, Chase? No idea. Oh. I'll look it up. See, I just saw the one hand go up, and it's like, you raise your hand, there's body language in action right there. Not understanding what's happening. He was doing this, but all I saw was this. I was like, you know? So, write that one down. It's real important. My goodness, Greg, you are a king. I didn't say that. Yeah, I was noticing that one. I was noticing that one. You're a king, apparently. Mike, M-I-C-H Brady, 84868 said that. So. Okay, here's one. How do you get a quick read on people you meet for the first time? Situations such as networking, potential managers. Let's just do that quick. What's your best advice on quick read? Asking questions. Stand there and wait. Once you ask them something and they answer, just stand there and see how they react to that. Ask them questions. If you really want to get into what's happening, that's what you do. If you're bored, go in there, and when you start talking to someone, ask them questions. See how they react to it. What's bothering them around the room? It's easy to find out what's bothering me, because I'll tell you if you ask me. But the things that bother people have something to do with what they're looking for, and probably why they're there, or what's important to them for what they do as a business, or who they see themselves as. Those kind of things. I mean, there's a lot more than that. Chase, what do you got? I think somehow it's a default in my brain. When I first meet anybody, the first thing that I see in everyone that I meet, and I don't do this consciously, but is how much do they feel like they are not enough? How much do they need to add to themselves? How much flair do they need to throw up? How much chaff are they going to talk about? All this extra stuff. How much do they feel like they need to add to themselves because they don't feel like they're enough? I don't know why, but that's the default thing that I see every time I meet somebody. And my default is, are they talking at me or to me? Because people talk at you. Narcissists are really good at blasting out all the bullshit they've done in their life versus just trying to make a connection with you. And not everybody's good at making a connection. But if I say something, and they hear it, and they respond, then that usually is a genuine person that you're getting that kind of thing. And you got to be careful because you can make mistakes with that. For example, I know a couple of people who are on the autism spectrum. If you tell a story, they have to tell you a story to relate. And so you might think they're just talking at you, not to you. But that's usually my go-to. So my best fast read is to perform in a very pro-social manner and see how fast and how much they start mirroring that very pro-social attitude that I'm giving. But again, it's like there's so many things you could do for a start, but you're thin slicing. So it's like, pick one. It's a quick read. I got to pick one. It's like, what's the biggest red flag, right? Sorry. So most of your baseline models are deeply rooted in Western behavior. How can you confidently analyze foreign leaders without risking massive cultural misinterpretations? I will beg to differ with you that they're all Western, only because of exposure in my past life and Chase and Mark. And I would tell you, we take into account, we do say that might be normal in your culture. Spent a lot of time in the Middle East, spent a lot of time with Arabs. Got a wife who's not born in the U.S., helps. All those kinds of things bring you a little bit more insight and to pay attention. So I would say just be, if you are the kind of person who hasn't traveled a lot and hasn't dealt with a lot of people from different cultures, even in the U.S., you're in real danger of creating a baseline model that is way too rooted in your own personal experience. What do you guys think? Yeah, well, I go back to that what that culture is doing is suppressing or expanding on the stuff that we all already do. So here's an example of this. It's all of us here right now and you watching this, you're dealing with gravity in just the same way as I'm dealing with it right now. And we're all designed the same way. We may have some problems and dysfunctions in the way that our body's working, but ultimately they're having a problem and dysfunction with gravity. And that's just the start of it. So how are you doing? All right. All right, Mark. You could do this for half an hour. Look at my pop against gravity there. And that's going to happen the world over. That's going to happen the world over. If you could meet any serial killer alive or dead, who would it be? Hitler. That's a good one. I think even more than him was Genghis Khan. Yeah, it would be the ultimate, right? I guess. Well, it depends on what I'm allowed to say and do to him differently, right? Yeah, I'm not that bothered. Waterboarding except with Dr. Pepper. So that's sticky. Somebody asked a question in here, and I want to get across a point. Somebody asked, it was the making of a murderer guy, Richard Allen, I think was that guy, that they've had other body language people that say it looked like a POW interrogation or reason to confess. And did I see it the same way? Look, first of all, POW interrogation is a misnomer. You know, we don't call them POWs. Our people are POWs, and they're called enemy prisoners of war. But we don't use torture. Now, there have been enhanced interrogation techniques allowed to go to that. I didn't see any of that going on. I did see Reid. I did see very mechanical process-driven canalizing, pushing him into a funnel so you can get a confession out of him on the backside. If you get enough information, that's the way most American interrogations in law enforcement work. Not in intelligence. In intelligence, we care about getting fact-based information so we can take action. I used to say, I don't care what you did, because you're not going to do it again. You're in prison. I want to know where your friends are so I can prevent them from doing the same thing. So here's one. For Chase, this says, what's the simplest elicitation phrase to use in general conversation? Simplest in general conversation. This one comes straight from Mr. John Nolan and his book called Confidential. This is called a provocative statement. If you want one that's going to work in just about every single situation, start your sentences with so, basically, or I get, or I bet. I bet. So somebody says, oh, I work in tech. I bet that's challenging. Oh, yeah, we have all these guys. So you guys have been doing that a long time. So, I bet, and basically, kind of summarizing what somebody says, those are the biggest three that you can use in anything. Kelly Reading Teacher, I know someone who was a wartime interrogator. I wonder if we know the same person. That would be interesting. Shoot me an email with a name. Yeah, shoot us an email. What is the best way to get your, is that without your reading? No. Greg? No, I just said they knew an interrogator. Let's see. Here's an interesting one. Why does my BS detector go off every time I hear John Kirikou, or Kiriakou, I guess it is, speak? Kirikou. I think it's because you see somebody that is in the CIA, supposedly, and they're telling you all this stuff that they, that I'm under the impression they shouldn't be telling you. The one that bothers me is that other fellow. Who's the guy with the clownish hair that I'm always sending links about, Andrew Busamante. Yeah, that guy. To me, that's the one I have questions about. That's the one that sends all my flags instantly when that guy starts talking. Instantly, yeah. That guy, I have a problem with that guy. Kiriakou, I believe a lot of what he says. I think he's a lot, I think he's a lot of what he, I think he's what he says he is, but it's odd to me that he's doing that. That's what throws me. So it makes me think maybe some kind of CIA guy at the CIA said, okay, go out there and give out this information. I don't know how that works. I reckon he is like one of the best storytellers. Oh, man. I mean, he's just incredible. Story in that could be true, could be false. I'm not making a judgment on that. But in terms of like how to tell a story, like fantastic. Yeah, he's got that down. You can do that. We talked about entertainment a lot of times for people. Hey, law junkie, you didn't offend me with a POW thing. I was just trying to explain a difference. No biggie. I'm not easily offended. Trust me. We were not CIA people. We're not in that guy. I mean, how would we know any of that? But I think what does that mean for some people of the two? I would go with Kiriakou, not the Bustamante guy. He's got just a 3% boost in self-importance. It's not at a crazy level, but it's enough to, I think, set a lot of people's alarms off. Well, guys, the thing people don't realize, when we talk about the CIA, everybody in the CIA is not a case officer out working the street. There are all kinds of jobs in that profession. I mean, I've taught body language to a handful of people from that agency in my past life. And when you're dealing with those guys and you understand the difference, there's a lot of interrogators. There's a lot of profilers. You name it. So you don't know where the person came from, the spot you're looking for or not. And he could be sharing information he learned from somebody else in there. So I'll leave it at that. Talking of self-importance, somebody asking about the color of my socks. It's all about this. The behavior pattern is all about fashion. Obviously, I'm utterly predictable. And the socks are red. They always are. Mark, you know what's funny? People ask me all the time to ever learn anything from the people on the team. You know what I have recently done? Gone to a single color socks in my entire drawer. I agree. That's a brilliant idea. Yeah. Have any of you ever been dead wrong? Well, let me say something about that. We got, yeah, you're always gonna get wrong. You know, there's no 100% person out there. But one of the things that we always get pushback for is that who's the girl that got killed in the van story? I can't, you know. Something, Petito. Petito, Gabby Petito. And people think we get, we never see, the thing about that that gets on my last nerve is, you got that wrong. What about this? And they'll explain, no, that's not what happened. That's not, we didn't say that he didn't do anything. That's not at all what we said. And they're saying, they said, why did you get rid of that? Why did you take the video down? Because they asked us to. Mark met the parents. In an elevator. At one time, right? Yeah. I think the two of you were together. Yeah, there's a number of episodes of all kinds of stuff that we've taken down for all kinds of reasons. Sometimes because there's legal elements in there. Sometimes, on a number of occasions, the victims or the external, you know, that's the cascade of victims, have said, would we take it down? Because they don't want to see that stuff anymore. And that's fair. Like, yeah, no, we're not trying to harm anybody. Every time I get an email where somebody says, this happened, I was a part of this, and it's my husband or my person or my wife or whatever. And they said, would you mind? Would you think about it? I'm like, no, we'll take it down right now. You don't have to, we have to think about it. If it bothers you, gone. So there's, what have we got? Maybe four or five that are gone. We got the legal one. Yeah, just, yeah. Forget who, but yes, we've taken four or five down. Let's not mention who. Because they're not going to. But yeah, I think there are four or five. Yeah, there's obviously some people out there who weren't asking to be tied up in any of this. And so, yeah, completely fair. That's like when Scott had to delete his Richard Simmons dance tutorial video, his channel, it's the same stuff. That had to come down, just the shorts alone. Chase was almost through the whole course. And you're seeing him try to get back at me right now because he was almost through the whole thing, crying, called me up crying. Couldn't get back up. He paid for it in full. The only person who did pay for it, but he did. Scott makes you buy your own sweatband. You got to have that to sweat to the oldies, you know? Yeah, you got to do it. If you're going to do it, haul off. Here's a great question, guys. What body language analysis brought you the best feeling to give for each of us? That's a good question. Best feeling, what? Which one of the body language analysis that we've done gave you the best feeling to do it? I'm going to go for Prince. I go for Prince Andrew on everything. No, it was just, I mean, what a guy. Say it, Mark. What a guy. Yeah, listen, that was really, really early on. And we were already having a lot of fun. It was the second, wasn't it? We're already having a lot of fun together. It already was becoming very clear just how interesting each one of us was in terms of being able to give insight and analysis. And I think we put something together there that was really unique and spot on. And it was a great episode. Yeah, I think if we're commenting on something recent and newsworthy and afterwards they find some kid, my ego wants me to be like, you know what, we helped with this case even though we probably didn't. But holy crap, does that feel amazing just to have a kid returned? And I think part of it's because we developed some intimacy with the case and stuff and with the situation. And that really feels good for me. Scott, you got one? I don't know. Those ones, I try not to think about what happens to some of those people. But that time we were watching that guy who his son was missing. We were like, oh, guys, this is missing. We're like, we need to call these folks and suggest you do this, this, and this. And then you find out that they found out what happened to the child. Remember that one? It's like the Chloe Smith one from Australia. Those are the good ones, right? Where we said, people were saying, no, they kidnapped their own child. They'd done something to their own child. We're like, no, these kids are not lying. And because she had an innate smile, people assumed she had done that. So yeah, they're my favorites too. Chase, I agree with you. And a party wants to feel like you did something. That's just human nature. But getting people off those parents is as important as finding the child at the same time. And I think that's the Clancy thing. I think being a voice that says, here's what we believe, and? Yeah. Somebody said, how did you get started doing this as a profession? And that was Aunt May. I started because it was like psychological voyeurism for me. Like I wanted to see behind the curtain that you're not supposed to see behind. And mostly because it alleviated a lot for me. It was like I started to realize, oh, other people are screwed up as well as me. It's not just, I'm not the only person. So that helped me to be like, oh, I can calm the hell down a lot. And I think it did calm me down a lot. Yeah, mine came from just work every day, trying to ask people questions about a story we had written. And watching them lie to you and go, man, the patterns are screaming at me. Why can't I start making notes and write this down? That's been a fact how I got started with it. Then took a bunch of little seminars and that kind of thing. And said, yeah, I believe that. I don't believe that. And start stringing them together to create this whole thing. Go ahead, Mark. Yeah, so I was working on how visual communication works in entertainment, essentially. And somebody who was in PR with politicians said, could you do that with politicians? I went, yeah, I reckon I could. And then from that in business, and now I'm doing what I'm doing right now. But essentially, it goes right back to being fascinated in fine art, visual theater, film, TV, and how you tell stories with pictures. Mine started when I was a little kid. My dad was a doctor, and he got me interested in the way people behaved when they didn't feel good, or when they were there to get medicine when there was nothing wrong with them. So from a really young age, I mean, six or seven years old, I would ask questions about that. He would sit down and say, here's what you're looking for when this happens. That's how I know that. He would tell me stories and how people had told him stories, other doctors, and how they saw that. So that's where mine started. It just never stopped. So I've done it my whole life. I don't ever remember not paying attention to somebody, the way they're acting, or the way they're talking. And why does it make me feel weird? And all the studies weren't done back then about how the brain works and collects that information and all that. And there was one book that came out later. But that was about it. That was about it. Got the way you talk about your dad. I wish I could have met him. No. He sounds like a really cool dude. He really was. He was awesome. He was so smart. He was a card-carrying genius. You know those guys that you didn't know was a genius? There's like IQ was way up. When I found out, I was like, what is this? He's like, yeah. When you said that card-carrying genius, I literally got a picture in my head that he maybe had a card. Oh. And it said G. It said G. And I was like, I wonder what that card would look like and where you'd show that card. Sorry. Do you have your genius card? Oh, yeah. No, I've got. Yeah. Wouldn't that be a Mensa card or something? I guess they might give out a card. Any of you guys in Mensa? No. All right. Let's see what else we got here. But thank you, Chase. Thanks. He was awesome. He really was. He was smart. He was funny. And you know, he had it all figured out. Great guy. Really great guy. Somebody was asking, recommendation of best book. Can't be one of yours. I guess they're talking about a best book on behavior, body language. Wait, no. They didn't say behavior. Let's do it. All right. Best book. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Best book. Okay. Brothers Karamazov. Dostoevsky. That's what I think. Best book. You want to talk about that? Mark? You know, I'm going to go best author. I'm going to go best author because I can't pick a book. You remember this. I just want everybody to just pay attention when Mark talks about changing the question and then answering it. This is what he's doing right now. The ---- he can do. Nailed it. Yeah. Yeah, because these books are a little bit spotty and you kind of got to grab a bit from... Anyway, author, Robert Anton Wilson. Robert Anton Wilson. Yes. Yeah. Chase? Maybe the red book, Carl Jung. It's my favorite of all time. Greg? I thought we were going fiction. It would be something by Vonnegut. Something like Sirens of Titan or one of those. And then anything else I read is mostly history. What about the Pokemon stuff that you were talking about? Those are cards. I think that's right. Get that box of cards out and show everybody. Yeah. You know I have those. Pokemon cards. That Pokemon coloring book you were telling us about. He's got that. He's got that onesie he wears. Did you see that video I sent you, Scott? I haven't watched it yet. Oh, it's funny. It's funny. But Greg has this Pokemon onesie. It's when we go to Cron Con. You see him run around the halls going down to get a Coke out of the machine or something. And you know what? You always ask, what does a lie look like? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There it is. Somebody did say the giving tree in here. And I think that's one of the best. I cry every time I read that to my kids. So you guys aren't into the... Let's see. Man, a lot of readers in here. That was very... Anton Wilson of me, Chase, to change the frame of the question. Yeah. What do you got, Chase? Sorry, Matt. There's a question that's pretty much basically for you. I wonder why you cover people like Harry and Meghan when they've not committed a crime. I don't believe covering people like them serves any purpose. Why pile on? For clicks, question mark? Come on. You've got to answer for yourself. Because the thing that really got me into it was when she was pretending like she was the CEO of this company she has called As Ever and will sell all that stuff. And she was coming on like, I don't remember all the terms of the CEO. When I was an entrepreneur in residence at the National Entrepreneur Center for a long time, and I know all those things. I know the answer to all her questions, what they should be. And they're not. She doesn't know what she's talking about. And that got up under my... In your opinion, in your opinion. No, that's a fact. She doesn't know it. Come for me, Meghan. Come on, bring it on, sweetheart. Because no, she doesn't know. She doesn't know what she's talking about. Look at her company. What happened? Meghan, Scott does not speak on behalf of all the behavior panel. Please just to Scott alone and none of us. Hey, I'll go head to head. I'll prove it. I can prove it. You know me, I wouldn't mouth off about that if I couldn't prove it, unless we're out running around saying something. Here's a great question. What would you guys say to people that say body language isn't a real science and it can't be relied upon to come to any solid conclusion? Well, I got a standard answer to that. Chase has got a great one. Yeah, he does. He has a great one. I mean, it's not science. That's right. Science means it's predictable numbers every single time, and you can test it against controls every time, and it works every time. There's two things that are pseudoscience, and this is meteorology and behavior. We work in likelihoods and not certainties. Science works in certainty. Anyway, when I roll my eyes, it's only to send you a point. We're designed to read each other. We are designed to read each other. That's just a vestige of us communicating across the way. There are lots of other pieces of communication that our bodies are intended to do that you can pick up and say, why is that person's body not doing it? Then you quickly look for, is it baseline? Is it a deviation from something? Or is there something going on in their head that's a mess? So I think it's really easy to say, would I want somebody for me to say a person's lying and they killed somebody and them to be locked up for it? No, that's what a jury system is for. But I would want people to pay attention to what the person's saying, how they're saying it, take into account what the stressor is and why that is happening. And that's the whole model we're trying to build. That's the difference between this means you're lying. All right. Let's have, we've got five minutes left. So let's get one more good question in here. Sadie just tuned in and said hello to everybody. Hey, Sadie. Hope you're doing good. We miss you. Hope everything's good. Let me just add into that last one. Some, but not all body language or work in body language does follow the scientific method. Patterns. Let's see. And can be found in scientific peer-reviewed journals. Heckman. And here's what it says. Why isn't Greg in his name on his square? Because I didn't type it in today. I don't know why it didn't keep it from last time. This thing is all messed up and the squares on my end, I keep moving them and it's not matching up with what's going on on YouTube. So when I repost this and on YouTube here later on, everybody will be in the right spot. I'll move everybody around so they're where they should be. Yeah. Chase pointed out last time and I fixed it then and I guess it just didn't stick. Let's see. The Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBaker. That's a great book. What a great book that is. See, I think that that book should be given to every woman on the planet. I think once you're old enough to read, give them one of those and they'll grow up reading it off and on. I think that's a great book. Everybody should read it, but I think it's especially for women. Okay, we got one more short one. Who's the best dancer? I'm going with Greg. I've seen your videos, your Richard Simmons videos. I think you win. I mean, the straight twerking though would be more. Oh, this is interesting. Will you be covering Princess Diana's brother? Yeah, there's a really long interview out there, I think. I'll go poke and look and see. There's a couple of them. They're really good. I'm working on one right now. Pull those clips for us for next week, too, while you're at it. Save me my Saturday. I once spent some time in his kitchen. There we go. You didn't eat anything, did you? No, I didn't. Didn't give me any food at all, as it stands. What were you doing in his kitchen? That's a whole different story. That is a whole different story. Thanks for the chat thing. Thanks. Dee Burrito says, thanks, guys. Your insights have helped me navigate the music execs and contracts. Well, we know one of those. You got to be careful with those fellas. Yeah, most of them are crooked. Not all of them. Some are really great guys. So, okay. Guys, we're about two minutes up, right? Yeah, I think so. All right, well, listen, we really appreciate y'all being here. Thanks so much. And we always get people asking us to do live stuff. You know, do it live, do it live. So that's what we're checking out, at least, you know, in the past. This is our third one. So if you like this, just let us know in the comments. We'll know whether to keep doing them or not. Because, I mean, they're easy, they're fun. We get to talk to you all and see what's happening on that side. And I think if we get enough positive reinforcement from it, we'll keep doing it. If not, we'll go back to doing what we usually do all the time. But that's all I got. Anybody want to add anything to anything? No, thanks, everybody. Yeah, thanks, y'all. All right, then. Let me figure out how to turn this off.