France: 110.000 protesters in Paris

Let's bring in Fatima Koulou, French disability rights activist who writes for Yannus, the French disability magazine, and is an activist with the French Communist Party. Great to talk to you tonight. First of all, did you consider being there today? Thank you very much for having me. I can't hear you very well so far. I was saying, Fatima, you're not there today. Did it go through your mind? Was the possibility of things going wrong what put you off? No, not at all. Not at all. I had other obligations as a deputy mayor in my city and I am a wheelchair user, so I find it difficult to move around by public transport. Compare and contrast. It's still early this moment compared to last weekend. But what you've seen today and the moment we're at, this is always a tricky hour, isn't it? In France, l'heure entre le chien et les loups, the hour between the dog and the wolf where things can change. whether activists, whether agitators come out or not, but what are you making of events that we've seen so far today? Well, so far, what I'd like to stress is that they were peaceful protests, peaceful demonstrations. 726,000 demonstrators throughout France, across the country, demonstrated and marched peacefully to defend their claims, their legitimate claims. So 726,000 people around France, 110,000 in Paris only, took to the streets to claim for better public services in order to defend their right to purchasing power and to denounce the cost of living crisis. So those figures so far, Fatima, you're giving, these are the union figures from the CGT union that you're giving us, saying up to 800,000 people took part in the demonstrations. We're still waiting for the police figures. Just like last week. Just to clarify, yes, that was the same figure you gave last week. The French police said last week it was 550,000, so a slight difference in figures, but all the while it's at least half a million people turning out on the streets. Let me ask you what you made of the scenes we were seeing last week, the looting, the wanton violence, the hijacking of the ordinary protest. At the French Communist Party, we denounced the violence that took place in the streets, but we stressed, first and foremost, the importance of addressing the claims of the French youth, of the French students, high school students, and of the workers who are only demanding public services, better education, better health care, and the defence of social security. so we're in a situation now have you been on the have you thought about and you told me obviously there are there are clearly thoughts you have to make about whether to go to the streets or not have you witnessed some of these protests so far and just tell me the atmosphere that you've witnessed and encountered when you know we are what six weeks into the the original student protests in Créteil, it's on the outskirts of Paris which you know after the TikTok video well 1.5 million people saw it they've spread across France they've morphed into various demands tell me what what your personal experience has been well my personal experience of well the youth protest that's first and foremost is that i'm a deputy mayor in the outskirts of Paris in a town named Alfortville and we do have a high school there and we have welcome youth at the town hall in order to discuss their claims which is to have better buildings in order to study to have more teachers also, that's my experience. I was earlier also driving through Porte de Vincennes and it was very peaceful and it was the beginning of a protest and my experience is that of standing with young people in France, in my city and also for hearing about all of their grievances and claims for a better future for a future also where the consequences of climate change are taken into account and they have not been by the successive Macron governments so for the last 10 years it's interesting i'm just watching these scenes right now and we heard from president Macron didn't we on Sunday the speech to the nation and again through the week the government saying that there's two distinguished things here. The very, you know, French right to protest, the right to be heard, he told students this week, to continue on the streets. And then there's the difference between those, what he called on the ultra-left, those anarchists as well as opportunists there to destroy not just loot, but symbols of France, including the town hall in Limoges. And to you, I would say, do you think it was okay to go ahead this week? Not that the protest shouldn't, go ahead at all but so soon after what went wrong last week and what we're seeing in this febrile atmosphere that we're now in there's a lot of pent-up anger and there has been for some time in France because as i was saying the claims are not addressed by the government and by President Macron who has been very contemptuous and his speeches for those protests and for what young people have to say but not only young people the retired people have very low wages and people are struggling to make ends meet due to the cost of living crisis plus 21 percent in energy prices plus 9.5 percent in the prices of fresh produce for example just stay with us Fatima let's just uh just take a look at the what's going on as we are live just around Port right now let's take a listen to to the sounds of the streets we'll try and get that as it happens but the image is frozen for now but as you can see we're at a moment where there's a lot of or at least a group of young masked men in dark clothing and clearly at a time now where it's certainly tense for the police there is certainly standoffs but it's very hard to make out exactly what is going on we're certainly not in the same place what they were this time last week that is for sure the other point to raise to you in the midst of all of this you have a government that the far right accuses President Macron of being breathless quote out of ideas out of time and we have a presidential list at the moment where you know the options in terms of what they can do we don't seem to be presented with any ideas of how well some of the ideas that you've suggested you'd like to see in France how to finance that I mean of the presidential list that you're looking at? One would assume that you would choose perhaps Jean-Luc Mélenchon as your president of choice. First of all, like you said I have seen various images and I'm seeing them at the moment but what I regret is that you're not showing us images of peaceful protesters that were in the streets earlier in Paris and elsewhere in France. These are live ongoing images that we're showing you. I know, I know. I know. About the ideas that could be in fact uh put into practice once a different government is in power well we have a youth plan for example at the French Communist Party and we have also a climate change plan and those proposals are funded funded by different ways of um of getting getting a better budget in the future so it's they are proposals they are concrete proposals and do you agree to change things let's are you just let me know if you you agree with the proposition that we've got of of the you know presidential candidate of the left wing of the of the hard left LFI France Insoumis you know Jean-Luc Mélenchon saying that he would restore pension a retirement age to to 60 after 40 years work is that something that you would agree with as a as a platform well pension uh well um pension retirement age yes at the age of 60 but we have we have disagreements as to the modalities of of such a plan but i won't go into the details of that but of course retirement age at 60 back at 60 of course i say that fatima simply because the french gdp 2.99 trillion for 2025 the french debt 3.595 trillion. So French debt right now is 119% of GDP. The biggest part of the money goes to the state, 57.7%, seven points above any other EU average. Pensions is the biggest hit from that, the biggest provider, 14.6%. Now, if the left and if the LFP were in power, we're talking about that increasing to 15.5%. And I mention this now in the midst of these protests because there are many demands and demands on the state, but I can't see and I can't see from either the left or the right any programme that addresses some of the biggest issues that actually would stop these protests because it's not about left or right right now, it's about money in the pocket and surely it comes down to economics. It's about also finding the way to have financial advances, financial advances and that's why we are proposing a fund in order to meet both the social and environmental needs of our society and and indeed that of european countries at large and not just france so there are ways as i was saying to fund those proposals so and i i agree it's all about finding the right budgets. Do you worry at all that at the other end of the spectrum, you know, we've got the youth movement, the youth movement saying that they want to see better school conditions. We know for six weeks and suddenly, you know, they're to a degree, all these other movements, you know, from the young movements, the yellow vests have come back on the scene again, Of course, fuel prices are a massive concern, but that gets diluted with all these other demands. We talk about the pensions, but the other end of the scale, I think, you know, there's what is far less paid on the education budget, It's 6.7% of GDP compared to 14.6% for pensions. And if something's going to change, surely that cut has to come from the older generation. No, no, no, no. That cost is not going to be borne by younger generations. We have a different system, as I was saying. And what I would like also to stress is what I'm worried about is not about those movements. What I'm worried about is what the national rally is doing at this very moment and about hate speech and also about what went on yesterday in Trappes and La Verrière near Paris. And as we speak, a 12-year-old girl is between life and death. And that's far more scarier than having young people on the streets at the moment or workers demanding to make ends meet. Yes. And explicitly, the investigation continues into that. The government has said this appears to be clearly a racist, President Macron saying, quote, terrorist incident. that his property was wired in Plaisir, it's on the outskirts of France as well, it was booby-trapped, gas canisters found. That investigation goes on. Fatima, good to talk to you, as always. I really appreciate your time tonight. Thank you, thank you very much. Thank you for having me, Gabi. Good to talk to you. Fatima Kholouk, French disability rights activist who writes for Le Nouveau, deputy mayor as well, and activist with the French Communist Party.