Omari Hardwick, Jaalen Best & The Greatest Cast Talk Intense Boxing Training, Real Punches & Becoming Muhammad Ali

You're playing arguably the most iconic sports figure ever. Kind of, what was the process? No pressure, right? No pressure. Right. I'm sending you up there to train with a Ferrari. I built a Ferrari. Kid, I'm sitting at 200 pounds, and I got to play 165 on screen, so. All of us got daddy issues. And guess what? The man asking that question equally does. The Greatest is an eight-part scripted series that will premiere on November 4th on Amazon Prime Video. it stars Jalen Best as Muhammad Ali and is the first authorized series about the former heavyweight champion. It's also an origin story that takes a deep dive on Ali's rise from Louisville, Kentucky to Olympic gold medalist to heavyweight champion of the world. I am very excited to be joined on set by six members of the cast. We've got Jalen Best, Omari Hardwick, Dana Gurrier, Kai Parham, Giovanni Ribisi, and Eamon Joseph. Thank you all for being here i feel like i've consumed like every piece of Muhammad Ali information over the years but i still learn stuff from this series um mario you're uh i think the most accomplished athlete in this group although i'm in talking boxing with you don't forget about this guy right here i mean i'm giving him college football credit thank you brother um same kind of question what drew you to the role of playing Cassius Senior I think, you know, when Ben Watkins asked me to come aboard and I feel like Giovanni, perfectly befitting of Angelo I feel like Jalen, made to play Cassius Jr. One day Muhammad Ali. Kai, perfectly Rudy. Eamon, perfectly Sonny Liston Dana, the same. I think for me, the draw was, who makes that kind of kid? So Eamon, I've seen and read a lot of Sonny Liston who is historically played as a villain in most of the roles that he's cast in. I think for, like, six and a half episodes, I was rooting for Sonny Liston. Like, I was trying to... I was hoping that you'd just revise history and he would beat Ali in that first fight. Like, what did you know about... Because you're a boxing guy. You boxed coming up. Like, what did you know about Liston? What did you kind of learn throughout this process? I knew about Liston what I feel like everyone knew. It's one dimensional, two dimensional at best. Villain, pariah, black, ugly, mob. Sonny Liston is a son, father. He's a lover. He's someone that's jovial and a jokester. And that's what I was able to learn about Sonny that I didn't know coming into it. Even as a boxing fan, you know the record, you know, 54 and 4. You don't know that this man had a total different life than the one that the media portrayed of him. I just feel like Sonny Liston, great ancestor, has never been portrayed like this. You know what's crazy, Chris? He called me when he learned that I was playing Cash Sr. I don't know if I told Jalen Kai or Dana this, but Eamon Carter said, Ricardo, you with Cash Sr. Wow. You with Sonny Liston, wow. Let me tell you something. He called me up, and he said, you know I'm going to be in the greatest. I said, what? And he said, and I was like, who are you playing? And he said, Cash Sr. I said, stop lying. I said, stop lying. And then he's like, nah, I'm playing Sonny Liston. And I was like, who's playing Cash Sr.? And he's like, Omar. I was like, oh, my God. It was like, it was a cool moment. You tricked me! I was like, oh my god! Yeah, he did! He told me, I'm playing Cash Senior. That really happened. So, I know Eamon came into this project with a boxing background. You boxed coming up. Jalen, Kai, kind of what was your boxing experience coming into this? And how did you become the kind of boxers that look great, look like boxers on TV? I'll let you go. Well, likewise to, you know, Rudy's real life, always going up, you know, after his brother, Jalen had boxed for about a year. And so when I got the role, I had about three months to figure it out. So they sent me to Canada to prep. And at first, you know, I was like, OK, they'll have me, you know, hit the bag. I'll do some jump ropes and stuff. And then they said, oh, no, no, no. You're going to spar Jalen. And so I was like, OK. And then when Jalen's done, you're going to spar Eamon. There's only so many times he gonna shuffle and punch me and so many times I'm gonna get a heavy one from him So I was like, okay, how many times he go Not every day, not every day You're just not gonna hit me like that every day No, no, so I had to figure it out He was a quick study, exactly Eamon, what did you think when you got in the ring with Kai for the first time? Kai, Kai was, Kai, listen He just has it Kai, yeah, Kai was, Kai was, he was working He was working but you know what it's the ego it's the ego it's the vanity you could tell that he started coming in earlier than everyone he started working that bag I think he got he got really nasty on that rope he fell in love with it and he got it you know the process he knew what he wanted to look like he knew yeah he knew the challenge I also want to give a little bit to my brother right here Jalen Vestman, um Rob Sally told me that he said i'm sending you up there to train with a ferrari i built a ferrari i built a ferrari i built it from the ground up and okay yeah all right i'll go up there and see the kid this this young man to me is by far the best boxer we've seen on screen he's playing the the truest most authentic form of a fighter ever because Ali wasn't just a pugilist right he was a he was a fighter and a fighter and Gio says it all the time but it's it's also that people mimic how Ali fights all the time but to really get it down you can't mimic it no you can't embody it it didn't it I was saying that you know for Angelo one of the things about he was just obsessed with with boxing and then when Ali or Cassius Clay came along it was just something that he had never seen before and he was breaking all the rules and he couldn't understand it and it was he just knew that it was something but also beyond because Ali obviously like we were what Omari was saying he became bigger than boxing he goes his His personality, his soul, his spirit, and Jalen is just magic to watch. So, yes, he surrounded Jalen with some formidable weaponry. But if that doesn't work out, yeah, we're not talking to Chris. Yeah. To that end. What if Chris said, yeah, you're right. I'm going to say it. Let's do that end here. To that end. Correct. He's right, though. You got to get this part right. Like the boxing community is relatively small compared to other sports, but they are loud and they're vocal and they're ruthless out there. Like if you get it wrong, they're going to notice it. Like, so what was what was it like becoming Muhammad Ali? um man i mean he he brought up Rob Sally you know and i think i have to give him so much credit because he would check in with me every single day and kind of ask me like am I willing for that day to be the best that i can possibly be and i think i had to surrender like you know to that idea and be say and honestly say yes or say no and i think every single day i wanted to reach that potential and figure out you know how great can I be you know as Jalen um but I think too you I mean being surrounded by this cast and I mean they they give me credit I give them credit because at the same time this is my first acting opportunity all I know is I'm an athlete I grew up being coachable I grew up wanting to be the best you know I wanted to be the star player I never got that opportunity so for me this was like chasing my dream as an athlete as a basketball player and being able to accomplish that dream later in life um and having the greatest teammates you know the greatest coach in Ben Watkins and Rob Sally and um but I mean I would like to say this because for me to even rise to that occasion and give my best I had to see people doing it you know seeing people do it for themselves and for their characters A man would never tell you. This man, not only, you know, with the isolation, but he would carry a 60, 80-pound kettlebell around set every single day. And we just looking at this man like, what? But he wanted to feel, you know, the weight of what Sonny Liston carried. I spent so much time with Amari. We went on an eight-mile walk one time. and this was to start off to start off you know me meeting him you know and during that time I remember him telling me you know to look at this opportunity as therapy by the time I finished it I was gonna you know have the answers or be working you know in my life so I think to have someone like that that I could be around every single day it really turned into a father-son relationship I have a troubling relationship with my dad I don't I don't I don't have a relationship with my dad so this was an opportunity for me to get a feel of what that was like so a lot of what you see you know in this in this show right I was leaning on that relationship same with Dana you know I think I'm very close with my mom you know me and my mom don't have a affectionate relationship but we love each other in in different ways and that's the beauty of black family love looks different um with Dana I was able to fall in love with this vulnerability that I know that I possessed I didn't know I had it I never really you know got to experience the softness that allowed me to experience the softness that Ali may have felt he had a loving relationship with his mom that was his his person so I developed that with Dana it was super special Kai was like my brother in real life you know we weren't just acting on the screen it was every single day we're checking in with each other we're letting each other know what our days look like we're finding ways to be there when i started off i was we went through the boxing fights up at um as when we first started shooting kai showed up and he would wait all day on set watch me in the how did you become the ferrari though that's what like because are you doing two days for two years kind of what is the like what is the what is that process like you know again you're talking about Muhammad Ali and what he gave to be Muhammad Ali so you talk about you know six seven days a week you talk about waking up every single day and having to run you know five miles and like for time and you talk about cutting 35 to almost 40 pounds to look like a 18 year old kid I'm sitting at 200 pounds and I gotta play 165 on screen so the guy went from 165 no no bigger he that's a year ago while filming he went from 165 Sonny Liston fought at 218 I wanted to be at 218 on the dot and I saw Jalen at 165 doing the amateurs three weeks later he had to be prepared to fight me that was the jump that he needed So he had to go down to 165. Yeah. We're not always shooting in, you know, linear. Yeah, and you're in every scene. You're doing 14-hour days. And he's doing nuts, yeah. Discipline of, you know, calories that he's putting in. Carrying the weight of showing your shoulders. And he did it with the most grace, the most poise. He had a generous smile, love, nothing but love for everyone he crossed paths with. Everyone. So what was the kettlebell? Tell me the kettlebell. 65 pound kettlebell. It's just, I believe there's a price to pay for everything you want. And that was just the physical price for Sonny. Like, you're not going to do your little workout, your little two a days and some boxing training like an actor and show up and deserve Sonny Liston. You need to pay your pound of flesh. So what was really difficult is to run after this Ferrari for eight rounds and then pick that thing up and get back to base camp. And sometimes I wanted to put that bitch down. Chris, he's carrying it everywhere. They weren't kidding. We go to lunch. He's carrying the kettlebell. It's my price, you know Makeup and hair and kettlebell I needed something to remind me of everything that the kettlebell represented. that you can't take it off, it's not fair. Pay the price, you know. Gio had a watch, he had a kettlebell. And believe me, for me, the watch felt like the kettlebell. Giovanni, I thought, followed your career for years, shout out that thing you do still, great, guilty pleasure. That thing you do is what he was gonna say. is this is this your first sports role uh yeah i'm trying to think yeah i think it is So what was it about playing Angelo Dundee that appealed to you? Well honestly, this being my first sports role and I, you know, I grew up, I was a child actor and that was my life My formative years were really, you know, growing up on a set. There wasn't a lot of sports in my life growing up. The attraction was really what was on the page first in working with somebody like Ben Watkins. And then obviously the subject matter, the idea that once you read this, it's a show about greatness. It was just undeniable. It was just one of these things that you just... No matter what, you just knew that it was just something that you want to support. I thought Ron Silver did a great job playing Dundee 25 years ago. I thought you were excellent in this role as well. How did you try to crawl into the mind of one of the great boxing strategists of all time? Well, I mean, honestly, this is going to sound saccharine, but it was really, it wasn't, you know, given his obsession with boxing And Ali, I think as well, Cassius Clay, I think when you have an actor like Jalen, I mean, everything has its challenges, you know, but it was it was just really about him. And I think that was the idea anyways. And also, you're right. I mean, the boxing community is small and very opinionated, but someone like me coming into that, you know, you really have to block all that stuff out and just try to serve the material and see what you have and work with what you have. You touched on this earlier, but the unflinching belief that Angelo Dundee had in Cassius Clay. remember that scene in the early episodes when he shows up at the house and he's asked what would you do to make him better what would you change in him they said nothing get out of the way get out of the way yeah yeah yeah and maybe also protect that as well you remember that yeah but also like you yeah that was one of our first scenes actually yeah um but i i think it was it's that but also just to make sure that nothing else gets in the way as well you know to make sure that he also was it was really interesting he also really loved dancing and that was his other obsession and and and the rhythm of that and how that cross-pollinated into boxing and maybe the similarities there um uh and so there's a thing that uh ben had me doing which was the snap and the rhythm and sort of like keeping that it's almost like a consciousness thing but it's also definitely something that was, I believe, part of their relationship. I think he would hear that on the sidelines. Ali was such a dancer equally, obviously, right? So I listen to you, and I hear Muhammad Ali in your voice. Is that intentional? Is this just part of you now, or is this kind of just who you are? I mean, you know, I think I kind of walked in these shoes for the past three years, maybe four years, so it's naturally come in, but again, I'm from Alexandria, Virginia. I grew up in North Carolina um he's from Kentucky so we kind of share a little southern twang uh but uh but yeah you know this is me just being me but you know but so for the last five years you've been Muhammad Ali more than you've been and it's been pretty fun you know it is so funny because i i think being 28 i haven't really discovered much of who Jalen is, so to have to play someone like Muhammad Ali, you know, it's kind of funny because I think after this role, I would have to really do a deep dive and try to figure out who I am, you know? Absolutely, yeah. You're hands down one of the most grounded people I've ever met, so I think you know who you are. Thank you. Dane, I thought you and Kai played two figures, just played two figures in Ali's life that really have never been explored to to this extent you're the mother the matriarch of the Ali family the one that really held the family together throughout all the trials and tribulations what was it that drew you to this character don't we all find though that our moms are like the glue that keeps our families together absolutely you know like for better or worse they are the best parts of all of us I think what drew me to the work was the script. I fell in love with Odessa and she's affectionately known as Bird, but to me, she's Odessa. She was Odessa before she was anyone's mother, anyone's wife. You know, she was her own person of flesh and blood and thoughts and dreams and hopes. And I think that's what drew me to her most is that I understood her. I feel like she's probably most of her life been overlooked or in the shadow of, you know, these Titan people, these Titan men around her. And I definitely identify with that as a woman myself. And also, I was really drawn to her femininity I find like I can be tough sometimes as myself you know I'm just kind of like you know I say how I feel I I'm open I'm honest I wear my feelings on my my shoulder but you know Odessa she kept things right under the surface and I have such a tremendous respect I find that triumphant to be able to keep that much rage and love and worry and anxiety and stress right there beneath the surface at all times i think it takes a real hero to do that so you were i believe in college psychology major for a minute is that right i just i just yeah she heard that one from us they know because i would knock on their trailer how are we doing today i would do a daily check-in what do you mean what's going on how are you really feeling Let's talk about it. What with all those lines, what would be your your psychological assessment of the Clay family? Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. My psychological assessment. You want to know the truth? I think they were a beautiful black family trying to survive and get through the day like every other beautiful black family during that time. I would say they lived in a constant state of like a central nervous system that was always on alert because at any moment, anything could happen because of the signs of the times. You know, it's the era where we were and what they were doing. You know, my mother distinctly remembers drinking from a colored fountain. My father remembers having to sit in the back of the bus. These were not times where it was just easy to just walk around and be free in the world. And so I think that psychologically, that tends to play on you. And not only that, but generationally, like we're still trying to, you know, bridge the gap, but also undo the madness. So I think if anything, I would say They were just a happy family that was trying to make it through the day. That's my psychological, you know, assessment. You know, I'll leave the bill in the mail for you. Guy, you played probably, this is the most fleshed out version of Rudy Clay that's ever been really portrayed. What did you know about him coming into this role and kind of how did you prepare for it? So I was blessed to be able to get my hands on his autobiography that he wrote about his life being in the shadows of his brother. And so for me going in after the first few chapters that I read, I learned that this is somebody that is a very, very smart person, but someone who's very aware. So he sees the things that's going on with his mother. He writes about the things going on with his father. he writes about things going on with his brother and in the midst of that writes about things going on with himself you know in some ways rudy is the typical younger brother to older brother looks up to his brother hero worship the things that you conventionally see but it all seems like he is the rock to you like the one constant that's there for Cassius throughout his young life how would you describe the dynamic between the two uh i mean exactly that i think there's moments in the show and within their lives as well, where, you know, Rudy acts as almost if he's his, like, Jiminy Cricket, you know? He does nothing without running this idea by his brother. He does nothing without running this feeling through his brother. They act as if mirrors between the two of them. He's not always the champion. He's not always the son, right? He gets to be himself, and I think Rudy allows him to be his rawest self. so i think that's uh honestly the most important important thing that they have between the two of them Jalen would you agree with that i would yeah absolutely i would definitely agree and i think um you know to me you know and to me and kai's relationship you know um and in filming and stuff you know we we we are just alike we're the same person you know essentially going through the same experiences and uh yeah experiencing the highs together the lows together having each other back you know being strong in faith together um whatever it is you have each other's backs the heart of the story obviously is is religion and um muhammad ali's growth in with islam with the nation of islam i didn't know before watching this that it was rudy that steered him in that direction was the one that took him brought him in the nation of islam um tell me about the the the dynamic there, the religious dynamic between you two? Well, you know, I think when dealing with religion, you want to make sure that you pay your respects, regardless of what it is that you believe. And so we got the chance to do some, you know, little studying prior to shooting some of the scenes that dealt with the religious part of it. Now I've got very strong family ties to Chicago, and so, you know, the nation was something I was very familiar with, right? You know, I got to take that information and kind of tell Jalen about it. Like, hey, this is what, you know, I grew up seeing. This is what, you know, my understanding of the nation is, right? And so likewise, into what is shown, Rudy's doing the same thing. Like, hey, listen, this is the book I have. This is what I know about the nation. And I think you're, you know, perfect for what we believe and what they have in store for us. And Jalen, it was, you know, just a constant battle for Ali to do what he wanted to do with Islam, to be a part of the change there. But also from hearing from the other side, like, don't do it. Stay away. Stay in your lane. You're going to ruin your career like that. That struggle is an integral part, I think, of this season. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I think you're always going to have people in your head, you know, telling you what's best for you. But I think at the end of the day, we've seen with Ali, you know, he relied on his religion, his faith to be his strong point and to allow him to make decisions in his life that was rooted in something that he believed was greater than. So and I think knowing that and experiencing that, I don't know, I think there's something we all can take away from that. Yeah, I don't know. Just how someone could be up against, you know, something as strong as never boxing again and having to find a reason or a why, you know, something to fight for and being in the prime, Yeah, absolutely being in your prime, you know You proven that you're the best and you have a lot of proving to do but to give that up for the sake of your People and for your religion in which you believe You have something special. We don't see that often and Dana Odessa can handle pretty much everything. It was his veering away to Islam that seemed to be part of what kind of almost broke her like he she she wanted him to stay in the faith that has been part of her family for so long was that how much of a conflict was that for her throughout this process well it's her backbone right so her faith is her whole identity in many ways and so for that to be changed i think it felt like a rug being pulled from under her and i think it felt like a physical blow actually i think it's probably one of the more dynamic moments of like heartbreak for her throughout the process and and that's saying a lot because she went through a lot of things but it's like if you don't i think in her mind and in her heart it's like if we don't have the same faith if we don't commune in this together what are we and i think that there was a new landscape for them you know and it's not just like one it's both her boys and and and that's say nothing of what it did to her and Cash like what does this mean how did we raise them did we misstep did we make a mistake you know i think all of those things played into her psyche and was just really weighing on her spirit but there there are there are beautiful moments later where you see her sort of come back home to herself to them as well uh in the sense that there is There's nothing on earth that would separate her love from them. Nothing. You always love your child, no matter what, whatever they're going through. You find a way. And ultimately they did. Kamari, the word heartbreak she used there, the heartbreak I thought for Cassius Sr. was the realization that he would lose the name. The name was so important to Cassius Sr. and having his son change his name, there's a great scene towards the end where, you know, he's looking at the bus that he painted with the name on it. It just seems to break him in that moment. Why was that so important to Senior? To your question, what now I'm kind of going through as the father of all of this is, well, where do I belong in this? What can I salvage? Chris, what man, let alone father, doesn't want to fix? sometimes that ego goes maniacal turns into narcissistic tendencies but what father doesn't want to be a captain saber so here i am trying to save the ship and i do feel a distortion and and that i'm off my rocker and to dana's point maybe i am becoming someone who feels the rug has been pulled up underneath me as well because i now don't know what to provide for them and i think when you take away the name that he gave him that's the moment that you could perhaps personify it as and or create the adage of the camel was now broken and the straw that broke the camel's back was absolutely not only the elimination of what she wants for them to be akin with in terms of faith but i gave you that i haven't nailed the living of that name but you shall nail the living of our family name and as soon as you're en route to nailing the legacy of this name you're now trying to change the name mom is upset for reasons that she's upset and now i'm upset for reasons do you want to be any part of us the faith is one thing and the name is another thing you kind of seem to be pushing away and then of course Cassius Senior's complexities go to another level in blaming him which is so unfair to him Rudy is but in the cast the shadow of the big guy in the cast right in the cast kai is playing the guy in the shadow of this guy but now i'm blaming him for being not in the shadow i'm blaming him for being the guy you're the guy so who do i blame she's left that night in pillow talk with me and me in pillow talk with her Both of us are asking, who's to blame? Jalen, this story all takes place in the early 60s. It's the backdrop of the civil rights movement. And, you know, Muhammad Ali, or Cassius Clay, wins the gold medal in 1960. And it felt like in that first episode, he thought that was going to change a lot. Like that was going to make things different. And he realizes very quickly that's not the case. I think there's the great scene where he walks into the restaurant that has his burger on the menu. and he can't sit at the table to eat the burger at the menu like what did you learn about kind of like how that plays a role in his story yeah i think um the my favorite part in that in that first episode is in in i mean just to piggyback off what you said is this this uh gold medal is like a golden key that can unlock anything and then you get to a place of realizing that the materials, you know, the money, the, um, success, the fame. It doesn't, it gets you only so far before you realize the real problems that you face that lie ahead of you. Um, and, and I think Ali and going to a place like Rome and being able to have that thought that this is how it should be back home. You know, this is the freedom we should be able to, you know, walk around with and we should be able to commune together no no matter the race religion or whatever you know be but for him to have that experience and to go back home and have that mindset that he could change the world you know I think that was only the first step in his process and in his journey and I think he quickly realizes in his pursuit to become great at that time is um, he had the, the will to do it. And I, I think he knew that. And I think, um, him throwing the medal was just him realizing, okay, this didn't work, but let's go find the next one. Um, so yeah, I think, I think, uh, to answer if that answers your question, there, there is, as we've talked about a real authenticity in the boxing, the action is so excellently choreographed. It's, it's, it's true boxing. So I want to ask this question. If we all walk down to Wildcard Gym after this and we get Jalen, Kai, and Eamon round robin tournaments in the ring. Who is coming out with their hand raised? Easy. I pulled every punch. Uh oh. Pulled every punch. The job is to make the kid look good. Keep his face pretty. When you're acting in these scenes and we've heard this in shows and films before, like sometimes a punch gets through. Any any shots get through for you guys I mean me and Jalen got in trouble for our scene we were hitting each other for real but you know like we got comfortable with each other you know we're not really pulling punches we're just hitting each other and Clayton who helped us with a lot of the choreography stopped the set and was like have you two lost your mind what's going on I'm gonna beat you and we're like alright man sorry we won't do it again and we're right back to get each other was it the thing too was like I remember off and on we this guy is trained for what two years at this point at that point yeah i've been training for probably at least about eight months this time to throw some leather you know i remember in that last round that we did it was like yeah hey jay go ahead and throw it yeah he said i was like you sure man you throw them things we're not gonna do this you know what i mean like this is it for me all right you're not gonna get the chance to break my nose again so it's it's it's also again what's the price for this moment that we get that we get to play and tell a story the way that we told it was different the opportunity was to make something that's lasting yeah yeah so let me ask about that story because this wraps in 1964 what would you um if you could explore something new either in your character or in the life of Muhammad Ali what would you want to zero in on in the way that this series zeroed in on this part um i definitely would love to examine the mystery of Sonny Liston's death i think that's huge just personally playing Sonny given that context with the world that is shrouded in so much mystery and confusion and I think us having a perspective on that amazing before this young man and the Clay family now I can't wait to see this young actor portray the full fledged man that we all were graced with Muhammad Ali I can't wait Javonni, what would you like to see explored second that i think that's what's really exciting um and there's there's there's talk of actually exploring and doing that hopefully uh but also just during that time the context of the world as the 60s really became what it was uh politically and sociologically i just think and and and Muhammad Ali in that context is just exciting but you know what it's a love story And I think I would love to see that part play out the forgiveness of it all, don't I have to forgive him for not? maintaining my name, doesn't she have to forgive him for not remaining that of Christian faith. You know what I mean in theory It's a rhetorical question. I would love to see it be be presented to the world for the rhetorical nature of the question to be answered, the forgiveness, the love that it that it has an opportunity to maintain and or sustain within this family Like, Kai, is there more to Rudy's story to be told? Per his father's influence, you know, later on in his book, Rudy writes about kind of the decision he has to make to be like, OK, I need to go be my own person now. Like, I want a family. I want this. I want that. And so I would love to see like that type of rift between the two of them because they're truly like like two peas in a pod. And so I would love to see how that is is handled, because that's a that's a I think that would be a gut punch to, you know, to somebody who has always had that rock right in there in their corner. Yeah. Dana, what do you want to see explored, whether it's in your character or in the life of Muhammad Ali? I want to be a little vulnerable. It took me 15 years to meet Odessa. I got my my I marked my professional career 15 years ago when I got my first like professional job and so it's been a lot of roles a lot of guest star work this is my first series regular and so I have felt under the radar and overlooked for most of my career which wasn't really a priority I didn't care I just wanted to keep my head down and do the work and so it mirrors Odessa like she's just been keeping her head down and doing the work cleaning bathrooms doing whatever she needed to do for her family i'm supremely interested what her next steps are when she is adorned with all this love from her sons from her family from like the change in his life and what it means for her life i'm really interested to see her dress to the nines and our costume designers all of our departments did an exquisite job but i'm i'm excited for Bird to step into her light and I feel it's mirrored in my own life. I'm really excited for the next parts of my life as well, my career, my personal life, and all the things. So I'm really interested in that. I'm glad that she got it for her. Nobody else could have played it. Jalen, I'll give you the last word on it. All the things you've probably accomplished, overcame, the battles you fought in and outside the ring, what do you think is the most fertile territory to you? I'm very excited, you know, to be able to truly understand the mind of Muhammad Ali and why we know him to be who he is today. That's what I'm excited to experience. So what are the odds that in the Ohio River, there is actually an Olympic gold medal somewhere? Because there's differing versions of this story. There's differing versions of it, okay? Muhammad wrote in his book, he said it's there, but there's been a couple of interviews since then and then maybe it just wound up underneath a pillowcase or something like that. I don't know. What do we think? On our side of the world, we call it, Chris, suspension of disbelief. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So suspend your disbelief. We will find out. Do you think he stood up there and threw that thing? Maybe. Down in the bottom of the ocean you see Well, you had, just to follow up quickly, you had, Lonnie Ali is obviously very involved in this. What were your interactions with her like? I mean, incredible. she I mean just to give you an idea and you know boxing but um she took me as her as her uh plus one to see Terence Crawford and Canelo which was such a huge event and um you know she likes to bring me to a lot of things with her and experience you know the people who knew Ali and um her blessing to come in and to portray um Muhammad Ali um I think it's it just it's just that's all the reassurance i need um so i'm always grateful for her uh she's always in my corner i'm always in hers and um yeah she's incredibly special to me Did you all else have interactions with her during this yeah everyone okay we all were yeah we were she was she was around i got close to Muhammad Ali before he died so that was a different kind of connection and uh and Lonnie obviously i was in the home with Lani and Mariam Ali the eldest daughter i really wanted her validation and and stamp of approval that we got it right and i felt that up until the moment we started like our our scene that she was there to see that day and then when they said action or when Ben said action our fearless leader I realized oh it's it's they have to trust us it's now in our hands it's it's it's belongs to us at this point and it's our responsibility to tell the story correctly to the best of our ability and you know let the chips fall where they may so but after she gave us such a stamp of approval and i'm not gonna lie i really enjoyed getting it i was like yes it was so good you know you have to let it go and be like look it's gonna be what it is but when you get that stamp it's like you know yeah it's great the family's involvement is huge and it will be this year as well it's great well i'm looking forward to everyone seeing it. I'm looking forward to you guys seeing it in its entirety. It is excellent, outstanding work. All of you, all throughout November 4th, live on Amazon Prime. Looking forward to seeing it. I'm going to go, actually, I'm going to go get a snorkel and go to the environment. That's right. I'm going with you. Let's go. Great conversation, man. Nice to meet you, man. Pleasure, guys.