Russia and Ukraine hold US-backed talks after Trump says broad deal is possible

Russia, Ukraine and the US, all three sitting down for three-way talks in the United Arab Emirates, renewing a push for peace. In the last few hours, France also confirming it, along with the UK, Germany, Italy and NATO leaders will also be in the room. The two-day session in Abu Dhabi is set to focus on security guarantees as they aim to work on a negotiated solution that can deliver lasting peace We're going to talk now on the program to our correspondent, Emmanuel Shaz, who joins us from Kharkiv and here on set with me as well, Rochelle Ferguson-Biyahi from our International Affairs desk. Let's start with you, first of all, though, Emmanuel. I mean, how are these talks being seen by people here, there rather, in Kharkiv? I mean, is there any hope being expressed at all? Well, Stuart, yesterday I was talking to people who had just been evacuated from the neighboring Donetsk region, people coming straight from embattled Kramatorsk, which is under daily shelling. So for them, you know, the immediate preoccupation is that of survival. They see no end, you know, to that war anytime soon. They just have lost everything. So it's quite difficult for them to even comprehend that something is happening. at a diplomatic level. I was also talking to people in Lozova that is... You know, just across the border with Donetsk region to people living there, being born there and having witnessed this war, this full-scale invasion for nearly five years now. And for them too, under daily shelling, it is quite difficult to grasp just how, you know, how things could change at a time when Russia really is increasing its offensive, is increasing its bombardments rather than showing any sign for appeasement. I was also talking to some soldiers who were just coming back from fighting, from defending Ukrainian territory in the direction of Dobropillya in Donetsk Oblast, and for them as well, it's very difficult to envision any peace in the near future, let alone a ceasefire. They were telling me, well, we've had discussions before, it's been years now, and fighting only intensifies in our direction. And so people are more preoccupied by the immediates, survival here on the ground. Rochelle, I used that expression when I asked Emmanuel any cause for hope. I mean, any cause for hope from the US side? What's their aim and their structure here? Well, these are the first, obviously, face-to-face talks since. Talk stalled back in February, as Emmanuel just said, they were coming up to the fifth anniversary of Russia's full scale invasion into Ukraine. The fact of the matter is this time going in, I mean, we've been here before US officials are talking about elasticity, flexibility from both Moscow and Kiev on the issue of kind of the eastern regions within a postwar situation. The fact of the matter is we've heard this before. Look at the key diplomats who were there. We We have Donald Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner, both saying that this is looking promising. But once again, we've heard that before. No matter how flexible they are, we're going to have to see a real shift in the position of Ukraine and Russia on this. And Moscow, of course, demanding that Ukraine relinquish parts of Donetsk, which it still holds. That has always been a red line for Ukraine, who say that, you know, it's... imperative that they maintain control of those sections, because ultimately that will be crucial going forward for future security. Vladimir Zelensky, before going into this, said that, you know, Europeans were set to hold talks with him on the, you know, offside of this, on the margins of this big summit. We've heard this morning, of course. from French officials that Europeans will be in the room for this. Perhaps a little extra support for Vladimir Zelensky. Certainly, when you look at the backdrop of the United States, you know, taking in diesel imports from Russia, perhaps not looking like this. There can be a full trust in the room. So Europeans in the room with Zelensky today. And of course, we'll see what comes out of those talks. Emmanuel, then what kind of assurances do you think Ukraine is going to be looking for today? I think probably what we can expect to see and what are the hopes from the Ukrainian side will be two things. First, that the Europeans will be included in any future negotiation, any further steps taken towards peace, rather than hoping for a very hypothetical ceasefire that, frankly, nobody is seeing coming as an outcome of those talks. And second, Ukraine is still Seeking ironclad security guarantees, should any ceasefire be brokered? Because so far, Russia has had a history of breaking, of violating ceasefires, not just since 2022, but since 2014, with the exception of the very unique Oleshky ceasefire that we've witnessed just a few days ago. So those will be the main, you know, the main hopes from the Ukrainian side. And I shall add that perhaps... You know, drafting on previous negotiations that took place, previous discussions, the hope here in Ukraine will be that some kind of humanitarian deal might be brokered that might see the return of some of the prisoners of war that are in Russian jail at the moment. And in fact, Emmanuel, as you were talking there, we're just getting a statement coming in from the US envoy, Steve Witkoff, confirming that European partners will be involved and also saying the discussion covering how to build upon existing European security institutions and agreements following the conclusion of the war in Ukraine, that coming in from Steve Witkoff. No detail, of course, in that statement, a pretty bland statement, but just setting out the stall, I suppose, for what the US is hoping to get out of these talks, Rochelle. Well, absolutely. The U.S. says that they are firmly behind securing guarantees for Ukraine in this. What they have put forward is a couple of ideas that would be interesting to bring up for you, notably NATO's Article 5, which requires alliance members to defend others, you know, should there be, for example, once this war ends, should there be another invasion by Russia into Ukraine, Then the idea would be that under this NATO Article 5. That member state would have to defend Ukraine. Ukraine will be wanting to push for that. It's worth saying that Article 4 is in place to some extent, but which only involves a sharing of intelligence and, you know, as well as sharing intelligence, looking also at kind of discussing discussing options. ...with member states. Article 5 has only been invoked following September 11th, so that shows you the scale of what the United States will be asking Russia to do in this. Failing that, failing Article 5, this NATO Article 5, there are a number of ideas that the United States has put forward. Putting those up on our screen for you. Permanent security consultations, so this kind of regular bilateral consultations, notably between security and diplomatic officials. They're also, the United States, proposing crisis communication, so that would mean that kind of military officers can speak directly to one another to prevent any kind of misunderstanding. Again, all of this would be in the event of some kind of ceasefire. And moving forward, this is looking at the post-war framework. Just another couple quickly, mutual de-escalation measures. So that would mean, you know, any notification of military exercises or activities, they would be agreed in geographical areas. And then just finally, and I think it's an important one, reviving this NATO-Russia Council framework that was established in 2002. It's a kind of diplomatic mechanism that was put in place. It's been paused largely since 2022, and it was paused specifically. Following Russia's 2014 annexation of Crimea. So, again, these are the frameworks that the United States is putting on the table. It remains to be seen whether they'll be accepted by either side. And, of course, two days of talks ahead, we'll have more detail, hopefully, soon. Yeah, we'll continue to follow that, of course, for you here on France 24. Rochelle Ferguson, BI from our International Affairs desk. And Emmanuel Shah is joining us there from Kharkiv as well. Thanks to both of you.