West Bank: ‘Without international trade and financial support, large settlements would not exist’

Now, back in September, France and 11 other countries, including the U.K. and Canada, announced restrictions on trade with Israeli settlements in the Occupied West Bank, which are illegal under international law. Now, French lawmakers are trying to make good on that announcement. This week, a parliamentary committee approved a bill that would ban settlement products from being bought or sold in France. The National Assembly is due to vote on it next Thursday. And over a dozen NGOs are calling on French lawmakers to support the legislation. Well, for more, I'm joined on set by Ivar Eklund, a math professor and former university president and the chair of the Organization of Academics for the Respect of International Law in Palestine. Good morning, and thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. Now, I imagine you've been following this legislation here in France. Can you just start by explaining a bit about what's in this bill and what it would do? Well, yes, it's a longstanding problem. You know, the illegal Israeli settlements in Gaza As a stifling. Not the Palestinian economy, and are totally legal with regard to international law. So for many years now, we have been at the European level, at the French level, we've been trying to get the governments to stop trade with settlements. So this has been a recurring thing. And now. People are now, it's coming to a crash, so what you said here, so a group of parliamentarians has asked the government to implement, to create this bill. And it's not sure, however, that it will go through, so waiting for that with excitement. And what is new about that is that they want not only to stop trade of goods, but also services and so on. One question that I had is that, you know, the French, it was the French foreign minister. So the current administration, Macron's government that said back in September, we want to stop trade with illegal Israeli settlements. But then this bill is actually brought by a member of the socialist party and Macron's party doesn't necessarily support it. So why is that? Well, personally, I think it's double think or double speak, right? Because we realize that in September the government said they would stop the trade, but nothing has happened since then. And it's a reaction with self-frustration by the French parties, mostly on the left, that they said, enough, walk the talk. You said you would do it, but no legislation has been introduced, and the bill is not comprehensive enough. The bill talks only about trading with goods like oranges and so on and so forth, but what's happening in the settlements is much worse. They also have, I don't know, Airbnb. You also have financial services. You have lots of things, and this should be included as well. So two things, frustration with the way things are being slowed down, right, and also the fact that the bill is not considered comprehensive enough. But again, we are just crossing our fingers to hope that it will pass. Because you said this bill does include both goods and services, like you mentioned Airbnb. Can you talk more about that? Does that mean that people are going to the West Bank and staying in Airbnbs? You go to Airbnb and you will find a nice advertisement saying spend two weeks here and you look up and it's a settlement which is illegal set in the middle overlooking Palestinian villages and people go there. Don't realize that they're part of the occupation, right? Not only that, but also French banks, for instance, are insuring, are giving financial services, and they're located in the middle of a settlement. You also have big companies like Carrefour in France, which is the equivalent of Walmart, and they have open outlets in settlements and so on. All this is, so they have, all this is part of everyday life. It's a way of supporting settlements. Well, as you see, you have about, right now, I think over 500,000 Israelis living in settlements in the middle of the West Bank, stifling Palestinian life, and so on. And this is a lot of business going there, right, a lot of business. And so for some, but you have that. But on the other hand, you have these breaches of international law. But without. The support of financial entities, of insurance, of providing goods and so on, settlements, big settlements, would not exist. And as you said, you know, there's been upset about illegal settlements and business for a long time. These settlements are legal under international law. Why then are so many governments still doing business with them? Is the problem that it's kind of hard to separate Israeli settlements from Israeli businesses themselves? Why has it been so complicated to pass this kind of legislation? I think that many European governments, including the French governments, are complicit, that's all. They just don't want to act. You see, I am a university president myself, so for a long time now, many of us have said stop cooperating with Israeli universities and so on. There's a big university, an Israeli university with a settlement, it's called Ariel, it's just in the middle of the West Bank, and it's actually very difficult. And the French Ministry of Education just opposes that. So you see, why has it been so difficult? It's, uh... At the European level, we have said that it is because some of the countries, including Germany and so on, oppose any kind of sanctions against Israel. And on the French level, the... It's just a double talk, that's the way I see it. What's happening now is a typical example. The French government saying, the French minister saying on September the 8th, we'll stop trading with Israel after, I don't know how many, after decisions by the International Court of Justice and so on, and nothing happens. Nothing happens. This is why the socialist party and other parties are saying this is enough. Just, we are tabling this bill because you're not doing that. I know people that are against the BDS movement, the Boycott, Sanctions, Divestment movement, they worry that the real aim behind it is to harm Israel and to see the annihilation of Israel as a state. What would you say to people who are worried about that when they see this kind of legislation come up? It's a long-standing issue. The Israel army has invaded the West Bank and East Jerusalem in 1967, and recently the International Court of Justice has said that the only legal thing that Israel can do, the West Bank, is to leave. That the only legal thing they can do, and that anyone who supports it is illegal. So what we're saying is it's an issue of human rights. It is not acceptable in the modern world that you seize a territory, you settle it, and you try to expel the inhabitants. It's just not acceptable. And if you want to live in peace, if you want to live in peace, then the basic rights, human rights, has to be recognized. And so this is it, right? You know, the goal is the Israeli settlements, it's not Israel itself. Oh yeah, yeah, no, the goal is Israeli settlements. That's always that. You see, these are what is called here the occupied Palestinian territories, which were seized, which were occupied by Israel in 1967. This is the West Bank. Thank you. Gaza and East Jerusalem, and these are considered, these are occupied, and now it's been so long, 67, it's almost 60 years, that it's now considered as an annexation. Thank The consequences are very grave. You see, I'm sure people here are aware that the settlers come, they kill Palestinians and so on. What's happening, we're all focused on what's happening in Gaza, but what is happening in the West Bank right now is not a pretty sight either. you. And France was just one of 12 countries that announced they were going to boycott Israeli settlements, essentially trade with them. Have other countries been following through? And do you know what impact it's had so far? Well, France is following suit, so the first people who gave the talk, you have Spain, you have Ireland, I think, I'm not sure the Netherlands, but you have a few other European countries. Is it having an impact? Yes, it has an impact. You have to realize that I think 30% of Israeli trade is done with the European unions. And Europe and Israel are very much imbricated. For instance, I'm an academic myself, and the biggest funder of Israeli universities It is a research. The big is the Israeli state, of course, and right after that, you have the European Union. So, the European Union is really funding Israel and so on. Now, the trade, the impact it will have is, and I think it will have an impact because The Israeli settlements, where they are, they deal mostly with agriculture. And so they produce on seized Palestinian land and so on. And it's about 60% of what they do is agriculture. And so it's going to have, it already has some impact because we are the main buyer of these products. And the... And we have been buyers, and that's it. Great. Great. All right. Thank you. Well, we will be following this legislation then as it moves through France's Congress. Thank you again so much for coming in today. Thank you very much for having me. That's Ivar Ekland, a math professor and chair of the Organization of Academics for the Respect of International Law in Palestine.