InFocus featuring Laura Rótolo (ACLU Overview)

From the 22 News Plus studio, this is 22 News In Focus with Patrick Berry. Hello, everyone, and welcome to this edition of In Focus. I am your host, Patrick Berry. As you can see, I am on the road today. I'm out at our state's capital in Boston. I'm excited today because I know nothing about the ACLU, which stands for the American Civil Liberties Union. A little bit of a slur there. But Laura Rotolo has been kind enough to set some time aside out Out of her busy schedule. to join me to talk about the ACLU. And I want to read your title because you're the Senior Advocacy Director for Field Initiatives. Your business card must be a foot long. So long, so long. But give me a brief overview. What is the ACLU? How long have you been in existence? Yeah, so thank you so much for having me. Always happy to talk about the ACLU. Thank you. American Civil Liberties Union is a national organization with offices in every single state, plus Washington, D.C. and Puerto Rico. Here we go. We are a civil rights. body that just wants to protect civil rights for everybody. So you never have a quiet time. Never have a quiet time. We are a very large nonprofit organization with both national offices and state offices. And we're here to protect civil rights for everybody. So as a nonprofit, how are you funded? Do you do fundraising? Like I know a lot of nonprofits out by us. They do golf tournaments, you know, whatever it might be. How do you fund your existence with all the employees across all the states and office spaces? You know, we run mostly on individual donations. So we don't take a penny from the government, never have. And that's because we are often on the other side of the government, right? So our funding comes from generous donors, mostly individuals. A lot of people will give like $10 a month as sustainers. And we really just rely on that kind of commitment and funding from our members and supporters. So what are some of the things that the ACLU, going back in time, That our lives today are affected, for good or bad, by the work that the ACLU has done historically. So, you know, we started out, we're 100 years old. So, this organization founded in the 20s, during the Red Scare, during, you know, the people being afraid of communism. Right, right. The Roaring Twenties now. The Roaring Twenties. During times of labor disputes, major historical moments in the labor fight, immigration, even then, right, we were talking about immigrants, and the ACLU was founded to deal with all of those things. And some of those issues have just never changed, right? We're still fighting for immigrant rights. Free speech is a big, big one for us as well, since the very beginning, because, you know, we really believe in the marketplace of ideas. And so if you have an idea that I don't agree with, what we believe is right, let's talk it out. Everyone should have the ability to say what's on their mind, to say what they believe, to criticize government. And that's been at the foundation since, you know, the 1920s to today. So how do you talk about it? Do you have listening sessions across the states or across the country? We'll focus on Massachusetts. Do you have listening sessions across the state where, you know, maybe there's an issue that came up in a town or a county that, you know, has sparked the interest of the ACLU? Will you conduct sessions where you get all the sides of a topic to understand it better and whether it's something the ACLU wants to either support or fight? You know, we have our ear to the ground in many different ways. One is, of course, we read the news like everyone else, right? And so sometimes we just come in and have a staff meeting to say, this is what's happening, especially these days, in the past 10, 20 years, when... So much of politics is in the news every day. And there are so many civil rights issues that people see on the front page, right? So that's part of it. Of course, we have organizers and lawyers who are out in communities talking to people and hearing about the issues that matter to them most. And that's how we get things like, we just had a lawsuit in Quincy, Massachusetts. Where the police department wanted to put, the city wanted to put these Catholic saints statues on their public safety building, on the police building. And, you know, people in Quincy really felt like that was a violation of separation of church and state, right? Like, why should we have this one religion be represented on a city property? Giant statues. And that's something that came from the community, you know? Like, our lawyers saw the issue, community members came forward, and that kind of stuff happened. Every day at the ACLU, we're hearing from multiple sources. So the ACLU doesn't necessarily work on big blanket problems that cover swaths of people. It could be something as small as one town like Quincy. It's everything. So right now we're sitting in the Massachusetts affiliate office. So we take on cases as small as one town, one person who had an issue with their town meeting to national issues like, for example, the mail-in ballots. That is something that was in the news that everyone heard about, which was the Trump administration trying to limit the availability of mail-in ballots. That is a case that we brought here in Massachusetts on behalf of several organizations, including League of Women Voters. And we won. We took that all the way up to the Supreme Court in related cases. So that is an issue that affected the entire country that was brought here in Massachusetts. So we work at every level. So do you find that issues sort of ebb and flow based on who's in the White House? Yes and no. I think... It's fair to say that we have sued every president, if not almost every president. In the last hundred years. In the last hundred years. We've certainly been on the other side of every administration at some point in the administration. So, you know, like I said, we are a non-partisan organization. We are a nonprofit organization. And no matter who's in the White House, we will likely have something to say about civil rights issues. And we might bring a lawsuit against that president or that administration. So if somebody feels that they. They're being unjustly treated, whether it's an individual or a group of individuals. They just reach out to the ACLU and say, and they just float the idea past you. And if it's something that you. Feel that you need to be involved in, then you'll move forward with it? They should do. And that is another way that we have our ear to the ground, which is our hotline. We have a phone number where anyone who feels that their rights were violated can call at 617-482-3170. We have some trained, amazing people at that front desk who will take your call, listen to the story, and send it to the right place. A lot of the times, we will refer those things out to other bodies. Please. But sometimes, you know, we are able to help people directly. Fantastic. We are up on our first commercial break, folks. Stay with us. There's plenty more to talk about when we come back after this break. This is 22 News in Focus with Patrick Berry. This is 22 News in Focus with Patrick Berry. Welcome back, everyone, to this edition of InFocus. I'm out here in Boston today. I'm in the offices of the ACLU, the Massachusetts chapter. Laura Rotolo has been kind enough to let me take some of her time today to learn more about the ACLU. So thank you so very much for joining me today. Before we went to break, I asked you about, do the issues change based on who's in the White House? Hello, everyone, and thank you for listening to the That's on the national level. We Are Home podcast. We are home. We are home. We are home. We are home. And you said the ACLU has probably sued every single president since the 1920s. But you also get down to the local level. And we talked a little bit about immigration. Immigration is a hot button right now. Now, so. Is a lot of the work that the ACLU does with maybe some of our key immigrant communities, Thank there are plenty across Massachusetts, certainly a number of them in Western Massachusetts, but is a lot of the work currently being done supporting the rights of immigrants? Absolutely. That is one of our major focus areas, especially now. And we take that on in the courts and legislatures, in the communities, you. on the streets, and at the local level. So we have a lot of cities and towns that have raised their hands and said, what can we do to help our neighbors? Yes, we're going to vote. We are going to raise money. But what if we do here to protect our neighborhoods? And one of the things we've been doing is helping cities and towns in in Massachusetts passed good policies. To ensure that, for example, their local police don't collaborate with ICE, even accidentally, right? Because these things can happen even almost automatically or by just like sheer, I don't know, just custom. So we've been working with them to pass what we call welcoming community ordinances or policies to ensure that at least they don't help out. So that. Community members from immigrant families can feel a little sense of comfort that if they call 9-1-1, they're not going to be sent out, right, that they can seek help, that they can go into their town hall, for example. And we've done, you know, in the first Trump administration, we helped. Dozens of communities passed those, and we're going to do that again. So it's interesting the way you describe your interaction with local legislative bodies, whether it's a city council, town manager, mayor, whatever it might be in our local communities. So you have associates that work with local communities to, hey, let's think about this in a bigger picture. These are human beings that we're dealing with, and to create viable solutions to protect people. Exactly. And I really enjoy that work. Because you get to sit down one-on-one with your police chief, with your select board, and really talk about the issues and frame it for that particular community. You know, what works in Acton is not going to work in Cambridge, it's not going to work in Springfield. Each community is different. And when you get to sit down across the table with local advocates and local leaders, I feel like those solutions can be really real, right? Because they are based on that community's needs and circumstances. So is the ACLU located in multiple places throughout Massachusetts? Is there a Springfield office, a Northampton office, a Greenfield office, a Pittsfield office? Or is, you know, obviously Boston is the main one, but you have representatives in every county? We do. We do. We have two stationery offices here in Boston and in Springfield. But we just drive around a lot. Put a lot of miles on the car. Put a lot of miles on those cars. We are in New Bedford and Lawrence. Just this past election, Tuesday, we were part of the Election Protection Program. Explain that to me. Yep. So that is a national coalition that the ACLU is a part of. And every election season, we send out volunteers to be poll monitors to help voters cast their ballot, to make sure that there are no access issues, to bring up any issues on the day of with local authorities. And so we just help people vote. And this year, we had over 500 volunteers covering, I think, 30 cities across Massachusetts. And so we drove around, you know, helping all of those volunteers. We were in Lawrence, we were in Bedford, in Boston. Were there any issues? There are always issues, you know. The Massachusetts elections, of course, compared to many other states, especially this season, are run very well. They're very professionally run. But there's always issues here and there, right? Misunderstandings. Maybe a door doesn't open in the handicapped access area. Maybe one place runs out of ballots, right? Things happen all the time and we can quickly resolve those because of good relationships with the local authorities, elections authorities. What are some of the other local things that you folks are working on now in the individual communities? Any specific community that comes to mind in the state? I mean we work with so many. Many, many. So I live in Medford and that is a community that's also very active. They have band flock, they have a welcoming city ordinance, and we're just currently working with the Medford folks, those come to mind. But we are in many different places on the flock issue especially that's become really popular as a way to get at this collaboration with ICE and the surveillance. It's interesting that the flock issue is not just a Massachusetts issue, it's a global issue. I'm going to. Are there other issues, are there issues maybe that the ACLU has gotten behind that originated in Massachusetts and that have evolved, you know, to protect people across the states, all 50 states rather? Well, you know, Massachusetts, we always like to lead, you know, the Tea Party and the Revolution and the Old North Bridge and Concord, you know, there's so much that started here. I do want to shout out some of the most cutting edge work around state surveillance. Really started here in Massachusetts with what we call our Technology for Liberty team, where we were talking about facial surveillance and the effect that that has on black and brown people, flock, way before it was even popular, the dangers of AI. That's it. That's part because we are a technology hub here in Cambridge and Boston as well. And so those things are on our mind. But we've been talking about those for a pleasant time. Jean, let's go. I think of the artificial intelligence, the AI world, is that, aside from the surveillance side of it, are there other issues with AI that the ACLU is looking at and has concerns with? Yes, we are very concerned, of course, as always, on the disparate impact on communities of color. And so we see AI being used as sort of a... Formulas to, for example, I don't know, mortgages, banks, credit scores. When you use AI to really figure out scores, for example, that often has a disparate impact of communities of color because these models are often trained on white people, right? And so it leaves a lot of people out. And that is one of the dangers of AI. Very good. You've triggered a question for me, but we're up on our next break. Folks, stay with us. We've got plenty more to talk about when we come back. This is 22 News In Focus with Patrick Berry. This is 22 News In Focus with Patrick Berry. Welcome back, everyone, to this edition of In Focus. I'm your host, Patrick Berry. I'm excited today because I'm out in Boston. I'm in the offices of the ACLU. Laura Rotolo has been kind enough to invite me in to talk about the ACLU. Thank you. The bulk of this conversation has been about how you and your members and your standing recall members or whatever, you operate not only across Massachusetts, but across the United States. How do you find people? Are they volunteers? Are they employees? You know, you have, you know, ears to the ground everywhere. So are these just. Concerned citizens who say, hey, you know, hey, ACLU, something weird's happening in Westfield. You need to get involved. How does the network work, and how can people get involved? Thanks for that question. We really believe in people power. Okay. You know, we are very much driven by our members and volunteers and supporters. You know, we only have a staff of a certain size, so we can only do so much. We have nationally 6 million members. Really? Yeah. Wow. It's quite astounding. In Massachusetts, we have 70,000 members and supporters. And of those... And those are all unpaid? Those are like volunteer... Those are all people who just like subscribe, pay a membership fee, and just, you know, are part of the whole organization. And then within those, there are about 6,000 or 7,000 of what we call the action team, which is our most activated and active volunteers in Massachusetts. And so they really power a lot of the work that we do together. So they do everything from, you know, call their legislators, attend rallies to help us staff tables, get the word out on things, bring literature to the statehouse, make sure that every legislator knows what's going on. And they really power a lot of the work that we do. That's totally free to join. It's our action team. And people can learn more at our website, aclum.org. And we'd love to have them. Do you find, and I know, and this is, I asked this question of a number of organizations, so I don't think it's of you. Yeah. Do you find there's an awareness problem that not enough people know about what you, and I am guilty of this. And so you and I sat down. Sure. I didn't know much about the ACLU. Do you guys find that as well, that in your travels, in your conversations, not a lot of people really fully understand what you do and how it can benefit them? We love talking about it. We love being out there. So every opportunity that we have to talk about the ACLU, we take it. I think there's growing awareness of both the ACLU and our partner organizations, because we don't do anything alone, especially in Massachusetts, where there are so many fantastic organizers and community groups. So we work from everybody from national organizations like the League of Women Voters, I mentioned, to La Colaborativa and Chelsea and everything in between. So I think with our partners, they might know us through like a coalition or a movement and maybe learn about the ACLU name later. But either way, we're in it. We're in it with our partners. There's The No Kings, for example, has been really big and our partners there have been. The two top ones, the biggest ones, are Massachusetts 50-51, which also people are learning about, and Indivisible, which have been tremendous partners. At the last rally, we had 180,000 people from the Boston Comet. Wow, that's fantastic. I think one of the things that may come to people's mind is the only way anything happens nowadays is a lawsuit, right? Right. Do you find that. Through the ACLU, it really comes down to legal work, or is it also forming partnerships? You know, we talked about the individual community, sitting with police chiefs and whoever it might be. Do you find that forging those partnerships is best or the legal route is best? You have to do it all. There is no one route that will get to the answer or to solving a problem. So we have some of the most brilliant lawyers, and the lawsuits are indispensable, right? When a law is being violated, sometimes you absolutely have to go to court. Can't do it without that, that piece of the puzzle. And there needs to be public support first of all. So like the court of public opinion being out in the world. Judges are people too. They hear us when we are out, you know, chanting and on megaphones. And that influences judges, you know, magistrates. and legislators. So we are also making law reform through state, local legislatures and Congress. You know, we're looking forward to a new Congress being sworn in. There's a lot on the table that involves civil liberties, of course. And so it's all part of the puzzle and not one piece can work on its own. When it comes down to legal action. You have your own legal team within the ACLU across the country, but do local lawyers work pro bono on behalf of the ACLU as well? Yeah, absolutely. We have a network of pro bono law firms that donate their time very generously to help us power these lawsuits. So in this past Trump administration nationally, we have brought over 450 legal actions. You can imagine how much legal power that takes. And so we rely on our internal legal team and our very generous pro bono firms to support that because we can do it alone. You know, you talk about the more than 400 legal action current now. And I mentioned to you earlier, do you see the ebb and flow against who's in the White House? Any idea? Thank you. Thank you. Was it lower under Biden, Obama? It's unprecedented, even under Trump too. The second Trump administration, this is the most lawsuit you've ever brought against one administration. Do you find the same thing on a on a state level, too? You know, we have Governor Healey. Is she? Is she pro-ACLU, or do you have as much of a conflict with, you know, a Governor Healy versus a Governor Baker, who was a Republican? Sure, there's definitely an ebb and flow there. You know, some administrations we sue more, but some that have more of an opportunity to make law reform within the legislature, right? So there's a little more work maybe on the legislative end, depending on who is sitting, you know, in the administration. If folks want to learn more about the ACLU, I know you mentioned website and phone number earlier. If you could just repeat those, I'd appreciate it. ACLUM.org. That's ACLU of Massachusetts. And then the national is just ACLU.org. And we'd love to have them as part of the action team, as a member, or just learning more about it. You heard it here, folks. Laura, thank you so very much for joining me today. Fascinating conversation, educating me more about the ACLU. Good seeing you. Thanks so much. This is 22 News in Focus with Patrick Berry.