【読売新聞オンラインコラボ企画】元竜王と竜王戦の名局を振り返る 2局目【佐藤九段vs松尾歩八段】

Hello everyone, I'm Yuriko Yamaguchi from Juryukishi. Today, we have our guest, Yasumitsu Sato. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. Today, Yasumitsu Sato is going to talk about one of the most memorable matches in the Ryosei history. This time, he will be talking about the match that took place on March 18th, 2019, the 32nd Ryosei Shutsujo Kettei Sen, the first group, the 8-dan match against Matsuo Ayuma. This match was held in 2019, right? Yes, it was a recent match. The previous match was a long time ago, so we decided to go with a more recent match. We might be able to see some changes in the atmosphere. Yes, the match was played in a different style, so I hope this will be helpful. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Today, Yasumitsu Sato will be talking about the match that took place on March 18th, 2019, the 32nd Ryosei Shutsujo Kettei Sen, the first group, the 8-dan match against Matsuo Ayuma. The first group was played by Matsuo Ayuma. Yes. It was a 7-6 draw. Matsuo is a very well-balanced player, and he has a very sharp endgame. Yes. It's different from the first group, isn't it? You mentioned this earlier. That's right. At the time, it was called Ibisha, but now it's called Furibisha. It's a bit like Shogi. Yes. Then, 3, 4, Fu. Yes. Then, 2, 2, Kaku. Yes. This is a move that replaces the 1-tei-zon Kaku. Yes. Then, 6, 8, Gin. Yes. Then, 4, 2, 6. If you're a beginner, you might have trouble with the Kaku. This is a 7-7 Kaku. If you can get the same Kaku and Gin, it's okay. It's within the Kaku. Yes. It's a bit unique. I'll show you. Take, take, take. Hit like this. Hit again. Hit, take, take. Hit again. Take, take, take. Hit again. Hit like this. You look like you're having fun. Hit again. Again? You'll get about 5 points. I see. You shouldn't do that. I see. You shouldn't get hit by the Kaku. I see. That's the ideal. Some people get hit by the Kaku because they think it's an opportunity. If you don't read the situation and hit, you'll get hit by the Kaku. It's better to get hit by the Kaku. I'm not trying to get hit by the Kaku. I'll get hit by the Kaku anyway. I can get hit by the Kaku anywhere. I see. But it's better to get hit by the Kaku. 4, 2, 6. 3, 3, Gin. 7, 7, Gin. 6, 2, Gin. 5, 6. I see. I've been doing this a lot lately. There's a direct Mukai Bisha. It's a common move. This is also common. But there's a change where you get hit by the 4th Kaku. It's a good move to deal with this situation. You have to be able to do both at the same time. You receive like this. 6, 7, Kaku. 6, 8, Gin. You cut like this. This is what happens when you do this in the beginning. This isn't a bad move either. But it's a bit of a risk. So you have to get rid of it. But this is a case-by-case situation. So you have to remember the shape. If the shape of your hand is like this, you can make a 5 or 6. But if the shape is a bit different, you can get hit by the Kaku. So you have to be careful. 5, 7, Kaku. If it's here, it's 6, 6, Kaku. You can't do this because you have Gin. It's a Dofu Kaku. There's a chance you'll get hit by the Dofu. But if it's safe, you can take it with Gin. If you have Tsugi-sha, you'll be fine. But if you do it too early, you'll get tired. For example, if you don't have Gin, you'll get hit like this. It depends on the shape of your hand. But in this case, you'll be fine. If the hand is here and the Gin is here... Yes, and if you don't have a string, you'll be fine. So I got hit this time. I'll put my Gin here. And 8-8-Shi-sha. So you're going to be the master of direct Mukuibi-sha. Yes, I've been doing it for about 10 years. But Sasukichi isn't here anymore. Only you? Yes, and Kubota-san. And no one else. No one else. Why did you start this strategy? Originally, I was good at Itte-son-kaku-gari. I'm good at it now because of Maria Makudan. There's a strategy where you win with Ibi-sha and attack with your back. There's a strategy where you move your back quickly, but you don't have much Gyoku. So I thought it would be good to do it suddenly and win with this. That's how I started researching. I see. Freebi-sha is harder for the king. And it's very simple. It's very simple. And Shi-sha feels good, doesn't it? It's like a bullet train going from Tokyo to Hakata. No, it's Kagoshima. I don't know. It feels very good. I thought I'd make it refreshing with just this. I didn't expect Shi-sha to come this far. It's a waste of time. I see. It also has a psychological side effect. It seems that AI has a negative side effect. You can't do anything without a psychological side effect. I see. You're thinking about that. It's a human battle. I'm not thinking about that, but it feels good. I see. That's one of the reasons. I think it's one of the reasons why people say the atmosphere has changed. I've heard that Nagase-sensei started playing Yagura after reading Sato-sensei's book on Yagura. Oh, I see. So it's more like Yagura. Well, I still play Yagura. I think it's a little bit wider. Basically, I'm not good at doing the same thing over and over again. I've been doing this strategy quite a bit. In that sense, it's a different kind of shogi. If you play Yagura against a direct opponent. And I feel like I'm making one thing at a time. It's a strategy that's worth doing. It's a completely different kind of shogi, but you like both. That's right. I think it's a very interesting strategy with a lot of changes. I heard that in the past, a lot of shogi was modified to beat Habu-sensei. That's right. I've been losing a lot of games in a row. I think it was around the late 20s. I was wondering what to do with that. I think I started to see a little bit of change in style from the 30s. Is it almost complete now? It's not complete, but I've gained a lot of experience. You can express it. I don't think there's anything wrong with other people not imitating you. But if you're not yourself, you can't do it. There are times when you're the only one who's experienced it. On the contrary, I think that's a strong point. I think it's a one-time thing. I'm looking forward to it. 6, 3, silver. 8, 6, Fu. That's right. 7, 4, Fu. 4, 8, Gyoku. 3, 2, Gyoku. 3, 8, Gyoku. 3, 3, silver. 2, 8, Gyoku. 1, 4, Fu. 1, 6, Fu. It's in pieces. That's right. 5, 2, gold. 3, 8, silver. 3, 5, Fu. That's right. That was Matsuo-san's strategy for this game. Usually, when you're in a silver-to-silver situation, you go up with 2, 4, Fu, 2, 3, silver. But if you go up with 3, 3, silver, you're likely to be able to aim for the Anaguma or the Gyoku or the Kuraidori. In this game, he aimed for the Kuraidori. 6, 6, silver. 4, 2, gold. That's right. In the past, it was common to go up with 2, 2, Gyoku, or 3, 2, gold. But these days, it's common to go up with this shape. So you're going to make it hard just on this spot. Yes. I think it's a good idea to make the top and bottom a little thicker. 5, 8, gold. That's right. It's easier to go up with gold because it's on the board. If it's not on the board, you'll be able to aim for the Anaguma or the Gyoku or the Kuraidori. But since you have your own Fu on the board, you don't have to worry about that. 9, 4, Fu. 9, 6, Fu. 3, 4, silver. 7, 7, knight. That's right. This is the basic shape. There are many other shapes like this. It's similar to the basic shape I designed. It's pretty scary. You have to be careful about the angle. In this game, it's easier to go up here because it's on the board. You can't put 4, 6, Fu on the board. That's right. If you put it on the board, you'll be hit by the angle. In that respect, it's a little difficult to make it more detailed. On the other hand, this is a pretty even shape. If you put it on the board like this, it'll be a little different. But since it's like this, it's a pretty even shape. You can attack from the front. From the front, or from the other side. 7, 3, knight. That's right. And then suddenly, 9, 5, Fu. That's right. That's a great move. If you can avoid this, it's easy. It's a move I've been taught for two weeks. It's very intense. That's right. You can do it all of a sudden. I didn't do it because I didn't have a way to do it. It's true that the hand is difficult. It's a matter of whether or not this is organized. If you don't do it, you won't be able to put this on. As a hand, draw a silver. 6, 6, Fu to 6, 8, and so on. I think this is a pretty common move. I saw it as a chance. It was subtle to hit the front. What happened? 9, 5, Fu. 8, 5, Fu. That's right. It's a normal attack. That's great. And the same shape. That's right. I took it with the same shape. Of course, it's normal to take it with the same Fu. This is usually bad. In this case, 9, 5, Kyo and suddenly run. 9, 1, Kyo. 9, 1, Kyo is the aim. I want to receive the sword. This is 8, 3, and 7, 2. If it's 8, 3, and 4, 8, 4, Fu. 9, 3, and 8, 2. In this kind of situation, with a slight difference in shape, for example, Kyosha, take it, and if this attack is bad, the sente is not good. In this case, it's 8, 3, and Fu. The sente is solid. This is an advantage. With a slight difference in shape, this kind of move can be bad. You have to be careful about this. 9, 1, Kaku, 2. If it's 7, 2, and 1, it's 8, 5, and Kei. This is Kyoson, but the sente is solid. This is what you want to do. The move is simple, but with a slight difference in shape, the formation is decided. In that sense, the komagumi is very good. The komagumi in the beginning is difficult. In that sense, the komagumi is very good. This is an attack you want to imitate. It's a fun attack. Take it, take it, and 7, 5, and Kei. If you leave this alone, there is a move called 7, 3, and Kaku. Take it, and 7, 3, and Kaku. That's right. 8, 1, and Kei. You don't want to take Kyosha. That's right. Take it, and 9, 5, and Kei. That's right. It's very easy to understand. It's pretty good so far. It's not going to be a bad thing. You're going to take a lot of pieces. That's right. You're going to take a lot of pieces. Take it, and 9, 4, and Futo. Take it, and 8, 3, and Futo. That's right. This is Kyoson, so it's about how to attack. If you take 8, 2, and Futo, 7, 1, and Kei will be sente. So, you're going to take one piece. You have 9, 1, and Kaku. That's how you attack. 8, 3, and Futo. 9, 5, and Futo. It's just a subtle difference. In this situation, this gold is still alive. You can see that by looking at this. Take 8, 2, and Futo. 3, 1, and Kei. That's right. If it's here, there's not enough space for the rook to escape. If you take 8, 2, and Futo, the range of the rook will be reduced. In the future. This is one of the points of this gold. 9, 1, and Futo. Yes. Take it, and Kei will be sente. That's right. Both of them will be sente, so I think it's a good match. Take 2, 2, and Gyoku. Yes. After this shape, you can use this shape to attack from Gyoku. It's about how to use the rook. Take 2, 2, and Gyoku. 3, 9, and Gyoku. That's right. It's a very mysterious development from here. I don't usually see this move. Next, take 3, 6, and Futo. For example, 4, 4, and Kei. Or 3, 5, and Futo. You can already see the target. It's very difficult to figure out what to do in a situation like this. There is also a way to attack from the front. For now, I attacked. I want to use the rook, but it's faster to attack each other. In this situation, you can use Ki-Fu or Sen-Su. If it was someone else, they might have used a different move. 3, 9, and Gyoku. It's like running away quickly and dodging the opponent's attack. That's right. It's a development where you can make a move from here. But in that case, I want to attack from here. In this case, it's a declaration that I'm going to attack from above. I'm going to avoid it in advance. From this point on, it's a professional-like attack. It may not come out like this, but in practice... If you do this, it's like a top knight. That's right. In a situation like this, it's quite difficult to make it work. It happens a lot. For example, if you have a knight, you can attack with a knight. If you have a knight, you can attack with a knight. In that case, I think it's common to run away. It's a bit early for that timing. There's nothing. I think it's very interesting around here. 3, 9, and Gyoku. 4, 5, and Gin. Yes. It came out. Yes. 4, 6, and Kyo. That's right. It doesn't come out. After all, you have to deal with it here. It's hard to get tired. For example, I'm going to go down. Even if I go down, I still have this much. For example, I'm tired with 36. There are various ways to attack. For example, if you suddenly hit 37. The same knight is 36. Even if you're simply attacked like a knight, I don't like it. After all, I'm in trouble with this kind of attack. I'm going to take this for a while. This is a fierce battle, isn't it? It's a power struggle. If it's a fierce battle, it's a bit more solid. This is also a fierce battle with a silver crown. I'd like to compare it with each other. In that sense, it's unusual. It's going to be a fierce battle from here. Is it because of this kind of hand that you're able to use this kind of hand? It's pretty straight. That's right. This kind of development is interesting. It's interesting, or how should I put it? It's like an arm. It's a very powerful comparison. I took 56 silver from 46. I haven't heard much about this silver. I just want to get rid of this silver. I thought the next hand was amazing, too. I took 95 silver. That's right. This is a rare development. How do you think about this hand? This is... I see. If you look at the next hand, you'll see that it's a defensive hand. I see. I'd like to go next. I took 36 silver. I took 37 silver. I took 35 silver. That's right. If you're going to attack with a pawn, you have to defend. At this point, it doesn't look like it's related. That's right. I took 35 silver. I took 36 silver. That's a tough hand. Normally, you'd have to take the silver. I took 24 silver. I took 25 silver. If you take the rook, you can take the king. I took the king. That's why it's bad. When you take the knight, you can take the knight. But in this case, you can't take the rook. You can't do that. That's why I ran away. It's usually tough when you take the pawn. Yes. So the main game was an exception. Did you win? I didn't win, but I think I'm holding out. I see. Are you confident in this area? I'm not sure, but I thought it was a good game. I thought it was a good game. You took 26 silver. That's right. It's tough to attack, but you can't get close to the king. Of course, if you attack, it will affect your king, so you're busy attacking. You took 24 silver. You took 26 silver. That's right. It's tough. I want to take 34 silver, but if I take 5 silver from the rook, I'll lose the game. It looks like a big pinch. That's right. That's where the meaning of the bishop comes out. You took 29 silver. That's right. It's amazing to use it for defense. I didn't expect this attack. It's amazing to get this far with two moves. There's a saying that the defense of a horse is three gold and silver. It's a very strong piece for defense. In that sense, it's a good move. There's a knight's move left, so you can attack, but you're making a damage. It's pretty busy. This horse is going to be a problem. I guess so. I think I'm able to hold out. I'll take 35 silver. It's hard to get this, but if you take 25 silver first, you'll get it. You ran away. I'll take 25 silver. So this was just a short break. 36 pawns, 31 rook. It's a bit of a shame that this is just a short break. I don't think it was a big deal. But it's a good thing that I was able to get a silver. So here, the ace of spades. Yes, I finally got the rook. I play the bishop. And here, I play the rook. The bishop is a pretty tough move. Of course, you can play the pawn and then play the bishop. But you can't play it slowly. You can play the bishop. But you can't play it slowly. In this case, the second move is this close. So it doesn't really work. But you can play the rook. So it doesn't really matter. So you want to get rid of the rook. And now, the 35 pawns. Yes, if you take the rook, you can play the rook. So you take the rook and play the 35 pawns. I'm afraid of the 31 rook, but I'm going to play it. So you play the 35 pawns. And you play the bishop. Yes. It feels good. And you play the bishop. You took the bishop on the right. And you play the 35 pawns. Yes, this is a rare move. The rook is very active. It's a big turn. And if you didn't have the rook, you could have used it to attack. Yes, I could have used it to attack. I could have used it to attack. It would have been a good move. But it's a difficult situation. Yes, it's a difficult situation. So you play the 33 pawns. Yes, I'm aiming for this position. And you play the rook. Yes. And you play the bishop. You have a lot of pieces. It's a level you don't see often. Yes, there are a lot of pawns. Yes. And you have 56 pawns and more pawns. And you play the 36 pawns. This is a difficult situation. The rook is very active. Yes, the rook is very active. It's a difficult situation. So you play the 33 pawns. Yes. So you play the 33 pawns. I want to play the bishop. But if I play the rook, I have to use the gold and silver. So I play the bishop. So I have to play the bishop. So you have to play the bishop. Yes. So you play the bishop. And you play the bishop. I'm a little scared. The bishop is amazing. But this is not a situation where I can relax. Really? You have a strong opponent. Yes. If you lose the pawn... Normally, I lose. It's not strange if you lose. It's not strange if you lose. So you play the 38 pawns. Yes. I was scared of the pawn. But I managed to survive. So you play the bishop. And you play the 37 pawns. I'm glad I survived. I'm scared. It's too scary. You have the rook. The rook and... The silver. Yes, you have the silver. And you have the bishop. Yes, I have the bishop. So it's scary. You play the 37 pawns. Yes, I think so. I'll play a knight. I'm sorry. I'll play a bishop. The next move is a checkmate from 27K. That's right. I have a knight and rook. I'll play 38 silver. I'll be attacked. I'll play 27 knight. If I get closer, I'll checkmate with a rook. I'll play a silver. I'll play 33 silver. I'll be able to hold out even if I get close. If I get closer, I'll checkmate with a rook. I can also play a bishop and checkmate. But the next move is 29 rook. It's a tough move. If I get closer, I'll checkmate with a silver. I'm afraid, but I'll play a bishop and checkmate. I see. I'm a little scared, but I'll checkmate. I understand. He didn't checkmate. I'll play 33 silver. I'll checkmate. I'll play 23 knight. I'll checkmate. This is also a scary situation. But you did a good job. I'll checkmate. I'll play 38 lance. That's right. This was just right. What does this mean? Normally, it's not good to checkmate with a silver. Next, I'll checkmate with a rook. If I checkmate, I'll play 33 lance. It's a little long. This is a checkmate. I'll show you how to checkmate. If I checkmate with a gold, it's difficult, but I'll checkmate with 34 knight. If I checkmate with a gold, I'll checkmate with 31 gold. If I checkmate with 32 gold, I'll checkmate with 42 rook. 34 knight is also a good move. Actually, there are similar numbers in the main game. This is a good move. I'll checkmate. If I checkmate with a knight, it's a long game. If I checkmate with a knight, I can't win. I can't win. I'll checkmate. The game has ended. I've checkedmate. 34 knight. With this move, I won the game. What's the next move? If I checkmate with 32 lance, I'll checkmate with 31 rook. If I checkmate with 12 lance, I'll checkmate with 11 knight. It's simple. You just have to take something. If you take a silver, it's a 3-1 bishop. If you take a 2-2 rook, it's a 4-1 bishop. If you take a 4-2 bishop, it's a 4-2 bishop. So you have to take a gold. It's the same. If you take a 3-1 rook, it's a 3-1 bishop. If you take a 2-2 rook, it's a 2-2 rook. If you take a silver, it's a 4-2 bishop. If you take a 4-3 king, it's a 4-2 bishop. If you take a silver, it's a 4-2 bishop. It was an interesting game. Yes, but the horse didn't get taken. It survived. But the horse didn't get taken. It was a strong horse. I think it was good that the horse survived. Setsui Sato is good at using his opponent's rook. He set up the game in the beginning. Then he turned the game around. That's right. Normally, if you attack, you have to keep attacking. But in this game, you have to defend. He defended well. He was able to counterattack at the end. Yes, he was able to counterattack at the end. Is this the Ryusei from two years ago? Yes, it is. It's a tough game. He lost two games in a row. I want to do my best in the next game. I want to win a medal. I want to do my best in the next game. Please do your best. Thank you very much. Please subscribe to our channel and give us a high rating. You can also watch the video of the Ryusei match at Yomuri Shimbun Honshi. Thank you very much. That's it. I did it. I won with coffee.