Committee vote on I-2113 (restoring vehicular police pursuits)

the committee will come to order good morning everyone welcome to the uh house committee on community safety Justice and reentry today is March 1st 2024 the committee is convening today to take executive action on initiative 2113 related to police Pursuits uh I will ask uh the staff to give a briefing please thank you Mr chair for the record this is Corey Patton staff to the committee um as a reminder house initiative 2113 is the initiative that relates to the Statewide regulations on vehicular Pursuits conducted by peace officers as a brief reminder the initiative makes two changes um to the current Statewide regulations first it expands authorization for vehicular Pursuits by allowing an officer to conduct a vehicular Pursuit where there is a reasonable suspicion that a person has violated the law this is in contrast to current law which only allows Pursuits for specific enumerated offenses in statute second the initiative modifies the risk assessment for engaging in vehicular Pursuits by providing that an officer may only engage in the pursuit if the person being Pursuit poses a threat to the safety of others and the safety risks of failing to apprehend or identify that person are considered greater than the safety risks of the pursuit under the circumstances this is in contrast to current law which employs a similar risk assessment but instead requires that the subject of the pursuit pose a serious risk of harm rather than a threat um there are two two amendments to the initiative thank you yes the chair notes that there are two amendments posted to the electronic Bill book uh and yet the chair raises a point of order at this uh time uh pursuant to Joint rule uh 16 uh no um amendments are permitted to initiatives to the legislature uh and so the chair hereby rules uh those two amendments out of order so there's no need to brief those amendments and we will not take executive action on them uh uh any questions about the initiative itself for staff I think we're pretty familiar with it uh and so we will take just about five or 10 minutes uh let's take uh uh 9 Minutes how about that uh and we'll come back at 9:20 uh so the we are at ease uh in recess for caucus the committee will come back to order uh the committee is now in executive session and the chair will entertain a motion from the vice chair thank you Mr chair I move that initiative 2113 be reported out of committee with a due pass recommendation second it's been moved in seconded that uh house initiative 2113 be reported out with a do pass recommendation uh remarks the chair recognizes representative Graham well um thank you Mr chair and um thank you to uh my esteemed members uh this has been definitely a long time coming and I think that it's it's a wonderful uh process that democracy is unfolding right in front of our eyes um on on the at the people's house and now in a position where they can literally be watching um this take place I'm thrilled you know to see that the people's voice is being heard and I'm looking forward to where this this moves next um and I'm definitely supporting this thank you further remarks chair recognizes the vice chair thank you Mr chair um so last year I voted for um Senate bill 5352 which um gave the police more discretion when they were going to engage in a vehicular Pursuit um I want to say like there is no perfect answer right now today um I know that um people are um leaving uh crime scenes uh because they feel empowered um because of the messaging around this this whole process for the last three years um and I want to also say that I do value law enforcement I value especially my Sheriff who I care deeply for and one of the deputies who actually I've gone on uh ride alongs with some of them uh one of them is actually mentoring my son who's going to become a police officer um and so I do value our police officers um but I also grew up in the black community and I have two black sons and I've experience I've been very proximate to the racial profiling that does happen it does happen it's not just a a statistic um I've seen it I've been walking down the street with my partner at the fair and law enforcement comes up up and you know questions us for no reason my older son was uh profiled and stopped for no reason he had no um violations of law so I know that it happens it's not just a statistic um we had this hearing on Wednesday and I I wasn't decided on how I was going to vote at that time but when we watched the hearing and we saw that this initiative doesn't align with best practices National best best practices and when we heard that there was new research came out this week around um the increase in police discretion increases racial profiling and that black people are four times more likely to die in vehicular Pursuits um those things you know really resonated with me and so I tried to amend this initiative to make sure that we did have balance in it uh and unfortunately because it's an initiative we are not able to amend it make any changes to it um so I am going to be a no today and um I just want to say I understand both sides but I know that I have to do the right thing and for me I have to do the right thing for me even though I know this is going to pass thanks thank you further remarks chair recogniz representative griffy uh thank you Mr chair um all three of my sheriffs came came to that hearing that the good gentle lady talked about all three of my sheriffs um come from very diverse backgrounds all three of my sheriffs believe that the actions this legislature took emboldened criminal behavior and they are absolutely desperate uh to turn that around um the greatest benefit by P the passage of this and it being signed in the law other than that all political power is inherit in a people um is the that we're going to Telegraph through the media I hope that it's not okay to run you better stop and you better face um um like a you know like an adult um the Jeopardy you might um be in because you committed the crime um I think the best uh part of passing this the best thing that can happen is we're going to tell washingtonians that uh law enforcement are going to have the tools to look um at at what you're doing they're going to be able to pursue and they're going to be able to hold you accountable washingtonians really need um law enforcement to be able to be proactive in policing uh and stop crime uh before we have more Crime Victims um with that I'm going to vote Yes uh and I thank the committee uh for this thank you for your remarks chair recognizes representative favar thank you Mr chair um just as I did last year on this topic I will will be voting no on this initiative um I think it's important to know that I'm I'm I'm deeply disappointed that we are back here to rehash this topic for the third time in what four years now and again without the data we need about what's happening in Washington state I believe standing up against this initiative is the right thing to do for my district for my siblings of color for the families who have lost loved ones to Pursuits and that shows up in multiple ways we're talking about the individual who's being pursued the bystander and the law enforcement as well um I'm thinking of people like yosia phogo who was killed in my district and thinking of giovan Joseph McDade both who were being pursued and killed in that process and I'm thinking of bystandard like charity Alex Dana proventure and David harder their lives are forever changed because of the troubling actions that were Tak taken on those days and I'm also thinking about the officers including two officers from thirston County that were injured just last month in Pursuits there's no way around it Pursuits are inherently dangerous and that's why we made these changes in the first place we understood that lives were being put at risk when they didn't need to for nonviolent offenses you know we understood that there are other tools to hold folks accountable and I believe the legislature did strike the right balance in 201 21 when we made those changes uh during the hearing we learned um a number of things one of the things it's already been mentioned today is that um our current law more closely reflects best practices and the initiatives does not that's really scary for me we also heard that there were situations where law enforcement it seemed that they could have pursued and they didn't and it's unclear why they didn't pursue we also learned that there is more and more data coming out as we go um some really shocking facts we learned um from a report I think that came from uh San Francisco is that over a three-year period that they studied 3,300 individual were killed because of police Pursuits and that includes over 500 bystanders we also learned what the vice chair shared which is that uh Black Americans are four times as likely as white Americans to be killed and Pursuits these are really really shocking data points that I think we need to take really seriously here uh I'm I'm deeply concerned about this initiative because it changes two very important standards and it leaves it up to law enforcement discretion and while I am concerned I do find some relief in that it doesn't change everything uh it doesn't change the balancing test the supervision or communication requirements or the training requirements around this and it also doesn't change uh or doesn't uh require that jurisdictions that have more restrictive policies like the city of Seattle that I'm in doesn't require them to change anything I take some relief in that you know I think that there are very real consequences of the of actions here and I know that nobody here takes that for granted but decisions like these weigh very heavy on me and I think about all of the lives that have been lost and our role here today to be able to really look at the facts presented to us and make a good decision for the people of Washington and and for those reasons and for the reasons that I I I worry that this isn't going to solve all the issues that we are seeking to solve here I worry that we're ultimately going to do more harm than good and I ask the committee for no vote thank you for your remarks chair recogniz is the ranking member thank you very much Mr chair and thank you for all your thoughtful and kind comments regarding your thoughts on this issue I'm an enthusiastic yes I think for many reasons while I understand and my heart's broken for families that have had situations such as the good gentle lady has talked about we also have families on the other side Amber Gate's daughter for example example who's no longer with us and her friend that was lifelong tragically harmed by not pursuing so I feel like we have to do this we have to give law enforcement their power back they are trained to do the balance test if it's safer to pursue they can now pursue if it's not safer they'll make the decision I have faith in them to not pursue and to keep the public safe I think they're the on who run into danger we're the ones who run out so I think we have to trust their instincts I don't know any law enforcement officer who doesn't want to keep us safe and I think it if nothing else it's been really valuable to have this conversation over the last four years or so to try to bring out concerns that you have and things that we need to look at it's always good to shine a light on issues that we have concerns about one of the biggest and greatest things is that the people have spoken you know we're elected to be here to listen and to hear what the people have to say to represent them and with over 400,000 signatures people that were out in the hot sun and cold windy days trying to get signatures to explain and to educate the public on where we're at on Pursuit and why their crime in their neighborhood is rising we we we're last as we've heard so many times this session and the session before in the amount of Law Enforcement Officers per capita we have to fix that I feel like by passing this bill it will be a step forward it'll help us fix that the morale of law enforcement over the last few years has dropped it if we couldn't do what we need to do to do our jobs here it would be similar what to what we've done for law enforcement we've said here's the training thank you for risking your life every day but we're going to put limits on you that may make you more end danger so I'm thrilled that we're here I'm grateful for all the dialogue I'm grateful for this journey uh it's been very helpful enlightening I don't think that we're done I think we need to really pay attention to data and watch closely to watch crime go back down hopefully watch less cars be stolen and just having law enforcement to watch them drive off I think that I think this is a step forward and I'm grateful to all my colleagues and their thoughtful consideration of this legislation before we vote I highly recommend the yes vote thank you for your remarks uh so on my behalf I will be supporting this measure but with trepidation uh I am encouraged that uh many of the provisions of the measure we passed last year which was my uh uh striking Amendment uh are preserved uh the requirement for emergency vehicle operation training the requirement for super supervisory oversight uh the requirement of uh planning to end the pursuit uh the requirement of adjacent jurisdictions to be in communication uh the requirement to be prepared to use alternative measures such as spike strips or the pit maneuver so those are all still in the initiative and uh that was never in the law before last year and so I'm encouraged that that remains uh the major change of course is opening up uh the possibility of pursuit for any violation of law law this gives law enforcement wide discretion uh I uh I do trust in general that law enforcement will use their discretion uh not to endanger the public uh but to apprehend suspects who are clearly a threat to Public Safety uh there will probably be differences across the state and we may see some unfortunate um injuries or deaths and I hope not uh but on balance uh I am supporting this and we'll be watching it closely uh and um I hope that we don't have to come back again uh but uh we do need to protect Public Safety but we also do need to protect uh the public in general from uh police uh interactions with the community so um it seems like there's a diversity of views here so I think we're going to have a roll call vote uh on this uh that will conclude the remarks so if the staff could bring up the standing committee report and please call the role Goodman representative Goodman votes I rip Goodman votes I Simmons no do not pass rip Simmons votes nay do not pass mus Brer M Brooker votes I rip mus Brer votes I griffy I rip griffy votes I Davis I rip Davis votes I farivar farar no do not pass R farar votes n do not pass FY FY i r FY votes I Graham representative Graham votes I rip Graham votes i r r votes i r r votes I I thank you for your votes do any members wish to change or adjust their votes uh hearing none uh will the clerk please report the record Mr chair you have seven Eyes Two knees zero excuse to absent uh thank you by your vote the house Community Safety Committee reports out initiative 2113 with a do pass recommendation that concludes our business for the day thank you very much for your attention to these issues and we are hereby adjourned