Chine-Afrique: les liens sont-ils en passe de se resserrer ? • RFI

Beijing, September 5, 2024. We are in the home of the gigantic palace of the people, Plastianenmen. The red color, synonymous in China with happiness, success and good fortune, dominates. Next to the Chinese flag, there are about fifty African flags. That day, Xi Jinping, the Chinese president, receives heads of state and African governments. He opens the 9th FOCAC, the Forum on Sino-African Cooperation. The meeting took place in 2000 and is held every three years. A forum that reveals a particular importance at a time when relations between China and Africa seem to be redrawn, reinvented. What are the issues of this cooperation? What does this rapprochement mean for both parties? And above all, what is the reality of this relationship on the ground? What also interests me in this episode is the look of Clea Broderst, the correspondent of RFI in Beijing. Recently installed, she has been following this case for many years. And in 20 years, China has massively invested in Africa. Billions of dollars, in particular in the construction of road and port infrastructures. Will the future fall into this line? Or is it already evolving towards a different partnership? To better understand and understand the issues of this 9th Forum, Clea chose the city of Changsha, a few thousand kilometers from Beijing, in the Hunan region. There is the permanent center of economic and commercial exhibition China-Africa. A place specially designed for the promotion and sale of African products. And it is on this place that our discussion begins. Hello Clea. Hello Alexandra. So I read your big paper on the RFI website about Changsha and this center. It really intrigued me. Can you describe it to me a little more in detail? What does it all look like? So it's true that Changsha, when you arrive, it's a very big city. The airport is 40 kilometers from the center by taxi. So we arrive in this city that is super bright at night. And the next day, when you go downtown, you arrive in front of this big building, which, a priori, outside signs do not show that it will have an attraction compared to Africa in particular. Then we enter the lobby. And there are big banners that show cooperation with various African countries, etc. And so we take an elevator, we go up to the third floor. And there we arrive. The whole floor is actually dedicated to pavilions. Each represents an African country. So there are about fifty. They are almost all represented here. And it's true that you can go in a corridor that shows you the relations between China and Africa. And in fact, it's like a big square. And you can walk through these corridors. And you can go to each pavilion to see what's going on there. And it's true that we were interested in the pavilions of Kenya. Because we had an appointment with a Chinese woman who imports flowers from Kenya. And in the same stand, we met a bit by chance, but a great character, this Chinese woman behind her tea table, who imports tea from Kenya. So that really intrigued us. Because we thought, you are Chinese. It's still the country of tea. And you import African tea from China. And it really created a great story. And it also allowed us to understand the interests that the Chinese, whether they are merchants or even consumers, had for African products. And in fact, it's quite prominent, in the end. It's true that when I read your paper, it intrigued me a lot. This tea story. Because we have a hard time understanding how the Chinese invest in this. While they don't have to complain. Chinese tea is represented worldwide. Did that intrigue you too? It intrigued me. Because, as you say, they don't have to be ashamed of the tea culture here, that's for sure. But in Kenya, they grow purple tea on the slopes of Kilimanjaro. And as it's at 2,000 meters above sea level, it receives more ultraviolet light. Hence its name, in the end. And even if we find some in China, it is not as biologically pure as Kenya. So for them, it's still an attraction. Even if the Chinese have this great tea culture, nothing prevents them from going to see if the grass is greener next door. And for some, it's more purple. It's true that they are very fond of it. And it's true that we tasted it. It's pretty good. And so I can also understand the attraction. I like tea a lot. I admit that I fell for it. So this place is a bit like a shopping center. Is it open to everyone, to the public, or simply to investors? So this pavilion is open to everyone. In fact, if you want, in the building, when you look at the center, you can see on the floors below and above that it is for professionals. But these are exhibition pavilions. So anyone can go there. You can go to the Mozambique stand and buy this or that thing. You can go to Kenya and buy purple tea. And you can just take this elevator, get on this pavilion, go around and go to any country that inspires you. Or if you have something in mind that you particularly want to get, and you know in which pavilion it will be, you can go there. So it's really open to everyone. And it allows both the commercial side, but also the explanatory side, of relations, in any case, of China with this country. It's very instructive, in the end. So I think there's the intriguing side, there's the commercial side. It's a vast floor where you can only get out of it by knowing a little more than before entering it, in the end. Is there a lot of people or not? How is the atmosphere? When we were there, it was quite calm. Because we were at lunch break. In fact, it's still quite important. And you should also know that when we were there, it was still a very hot period. In summer in China, it's extremely hot. And so it's true that people take longer breaks. But we, of course, went there to do interviews. So it suited us. We didn't go there at a time when, apparently, normally there are a lot more people. And it was in August, people were on vacation. But from what the merchants told us, yes, there are often a lot of people. So that, plus the mouth-to-ear, in the end, there is passage, yes. So there, Clea, we are relatively far from Beijing, the Chinese capital. Why this place, Changsha, was it chosen? In fact, in China, each province has its own government which implements its own trade systems. And Hunan, of which Changsha is the capital, is already a province that is extremely popular because it is the province where Mao is from. So, suddenly, it already attracts a lot of tourists. And Hunan, and therefore Changsha, is the first province to have set up the Green Lanes. I talk about it in the article, precisely. It is this system, in fact, that facilitates imports and exports to customs. That is to say, I take the example of the lady who imports flowers from Kenya. She spends only half an hour at the customs. Huang Jinan, the director of Seaway Flowers, arranges bouquets of 12 roses on her shelf. 50 euros is the price of these flowers, dazzling with unique scents. Thanks to the policy of the Green Lanes, flowers picked in Kenya can arrive here in 17 hours. If the delay of deportation was prolonged, they would be completely dehydrated. The Green Lanes, or Green Lanes, involves accelerated deportation procedures that reduce time and cost associated with the import and export of goods between China and Africa. At Changsha Airport, we have a priority policy for customs and fresh goods can be deported in less than half an hour. Hunan is a pilot province to promote economic and commercial activities with Africa. Changsha therefore has a long way to go in trade with Africa compared to other regions. And so these Green Lanes, it is true that it has made a gigantic leap for the import of African products to China. Afterwards, it settled in other provinces, but Hunan still has a long way to go compared to that. So if we take from the last FOCAC until this year, where there was the 9th FOCAC, there was a direct flight from Nairobi to Changsha every week. And since this year, so 2024, there are three direct flights per week. There is really a policy that wants to promote, in fact, that encourages. And the local governments, so the Hunan government, for example, organize trips to Africa with merchants, with people who want to invest to show them the possibilities there are on site. That's how our two ladies, whether it's for the flowers of Kenya or tea, they went there in these frames and were able to see on site the potential, the opportunities it could offer, while also having a product that they liked. So it was really a stone's throw for everyone. So from the moment when local governments start to implement this kind of thing, like the Green Lanes, the Green Circuit, if we can say it in French, it is certain that it can only promote a growing trade between these African countries and China. I was saying in the introduction that China had invested massively in the last 10, 20 years, especially in road, port infrastructures in Africa. There is a desire to diversify. You told me about tea, flowers. What kind of products are we talking about? I still want to put it in context that all the billions of dollars that China has been able to invest is really within the framework of the new Silk Roads. It's Xi Jinping's project. It's an absolutely massive initiative that brings together a number of countries in the world, which helps to build, as you said, ports, roads, highways, railways, etc. And it's really very, very prominent. In fact, we did a big series on this on RFI last year. I will put it in the link in the podcast page. And it's true that when we were talking with this lady about tea, she said that indeed, it is also part of the Silk Roads. But it is true that the government, through the Silk Roads, through the connections it has been able to create in the past with African countries, encourages individuals, in any case, traders, those who are masters in the industries, to go and look for other products and to diversify. Because in fact, as it happens on the other side, there is an African demand to export something else than raw materials, for example. Because it is true that we tend to classify Africa as this great exporter of raw materials that are necessary. It's a huge reservoir, yes. Exactly, a huge reservoir. We think of the Democratic Republic of Congo. I mean, obviously, there is all that. But the African continent also has this desire to show that it has something else to offer. And so there is a desire to create other arrangements and to create commercial links that are permanent. I take the example of Ethiopian coffee. There is a big African demand. That's what we were told here. I met a Ghanaian analyst who explained this to us, that there was a desire in each country to show what it was capable of. And today we find ourselves in the chains that are the equivalent of Starbucks, Costa, Chinese, which is called Luckin Coffee, with Ethiopian coffee. And it's written everywhere, it's well sold. And it makes no doubt in the minds of consumers that it's Ethiopian coffee. And it's something that is very well perceived, for example. Do you feel that all African countries are committed to this relationship? Or are there some that are a little more reluctant than others? It's complicated to say because there are still a lot of countries. And I think that, in any case, what we have seen during this FOCAC is that all the countries that were there, including those that sent a representation, were able to re-create strong ties with China. In any case, it was those who already had strong diplomatic ties with China. After that, you have to take case by case. I don't have all the business plans of each country because everyone has his needs. You see whether it's ports, roads or highways. But in any case, the commitment we saw there at the FOCAC, it was still quite massive. There were still a lot of countries. And when you look at the figures, it seems to me that China concluded strategic partnerships with all African countries that had diplomatic ties with China. And during this summit, it established or strengthened its strategic partnerships with 30 countries in total. That is, they raised their diplomatic ties to strategic ties. Most of the time, when Xi Jinping met a head of state or a leader of a bilateral country, that's what came out of the meetings. So inevitably, there was like a turnaround. A new chapter in cooperation. In fact, if you want, there were a lot of issues during this FOCAC. You see, African countries for many are in debt unsustainable because of previous Chinese loans. So it's true that these are questions that are quite complicated to solve. For example, one of the first to meet Xi Jinping in bilateral meetings was South African President Cyril Ramaphosa who told him right away that we need today to have more balanced relations. We need to have more balanced trade, more sustainable, with investments that create local employment. We need that today, local investments. So it's true that there is still a desire to appease what is called by Westerners this debt trap. After that, we call it like that, the Chinese completely deny this term. So these are things that are quite complicated. But besides that, it has talked a lot about security, peace, how to strengthen what is now called the Global South, and how China wants to be the spearhead of this Global South. And so it also goes through Africa, which is very important today, and its relations, China-Africa, want to be constructive and want to be a bit of a mistress around this new geopolitical table of the world. And so this FOCAC was a bit of an opportunity to tighten all these links, as you said, in your introduction. And I think it's done. I think that we have passed a new stage of relations and that it is lasting, in any case. This type of report, Cléa, at Changsha, a field report, ahead of an event like the FOCAC, for you, as a journalist, it is essential to do it to better understand the more formal meetings that you follow in Beijing. Does it help to understand the broader issues of the forum? For me, who had just arrived in China, since I arrived in early July, it was essential to better understand and apprehend the subject. And I have no regrets, because it really put my feet on the ground, in fact, to have seen, to have been able to discuss with these merchants. It also made me understand the issues there were. I was able to put faces on the green lanes that I had heard about. I knew it was an initiative of Xi Jinping, but there I was able to see concretely the time, the costs that it reduced for these importers, you see, of tea or flowers. So it was good for me to put my head in it a little bit and to be able to get better at the forum, which is right away something a little more formal. It's diplomacy, we attend speeches, we don't really have the opportunity to discuss with the leaders, for example. So it's true that we attend some speeches, but having done a bit of reporting upstream is always like when you hear a voice and you put a face on a voice. In fact, it's exactly the same principle. And it's true that going there a week before, it allowed me to have a global view a little clearer of what was going on, even if I was aware, if you will, with the Silk Roads, the new Silk Roads, of the relations that existed between China and Africa. There, it allowed me to put a face on those words, in the end. You said it, you settled in Beijing only a few months ago, but Asia is a continent that you have been covering for a very, very long time. RFI, what surprised you the most here, especially around an event like this one? Well, first of all, I wasn't expecting an event of this magnitude because it's true that we still have the memories of Covid, and then the precautions that we take, even if it was a long time ago. Well, indeed, when I arrived, I didn't have a Covid test or anything, but we still felt that it was still a sensitive subject. And in fact, there, it was gigantic. We were all in the People's Palace, without masks. Well, I wasn't expecting it to be so serenely guided, and in the end, it was very good. But it's true that I wasn't ready either for this organization ultra-structured, an almost military precision, when it comes to going all together in a bus to the People's Palace. But it was great to experience this with colleagues too, and to understand how it will unfold over the next years. So, no, very interesting, very interesting, and I can't wait for the next events, to tell you everything. Your next big event, as a correspondent, of course, what will it be? The subjects you are closely monitoring at the moment, even if at the time we are recording this podcast, it is something else that mobilizes, the weather in Shanghai in particular. Exactly, but the next event, normally, will take me to Shanghai, because there is, well, it's a whole other kind of idea, but there is the Grand Salon of Import-Export, which takes place there in November. And I think it's going to be quite impressive. So, of course, I think I'm going to cover it closely. And yes, indeed, as far as the subjects are concerned, well, you just hit the nail on the head, because I watch very closely what's going on here, as far as the environment is concerned. Because, precisely, I find it very interesting, because China has this double cap, in fact, to be one of the biggest CO2 emitters on the planet, but also to be at the forefront of the green industry. So, I find that these are really subjects that are fascinating to observe. So, there, I started, I will tell you more at another time, but in any case, it will soon happen on the subjects on the environment in China. Well, do not hesitate, Cléa, to come and tell me about China as you see it, with your permanent corresponding look. Thank you, in any case, for being here again, as a witness. Thank you, Alexandra. And thank you for listening to this episode. Do not hesitate, if you liked it, to share it with your friends. We are available on all podcast platforms. You can also prefer our Pure Radio application. See you soon.