La Nouvelle-Calédonie est toujours dans la tourmente • RFI

8.19am in Paris, 17.19am in Nouméa, it's a subject that is struggling to stay in one piece in France in the political context that we know. New Caledonia, still plunged in the crisis, more than four months after the beginning of the violence that divided and ravaged the archipelago, causing some 2 billion 200 million euros of damage and damage. Last week, the balance was raised to 13 dead and the political impasse seems to remain intact. Hello Virginie Rufnack. Hello. And thank you for being with us this morning. You are vice-president of the New Caledonia Congress, president of the group Le Rassemblement des Républicains in the non-independence camp. You are passing by Paris, in particular to evoke the economic situation of the archipelago within the delegation that came to present to the State the quinquennal plan of reconstruction voted in Congress at the end of August, a request for aid of 4 billion 200 million euros, to speak concretely and not only figuratively, in what economic state is the archipelago today, what does it need? Listen, the archipelago, New Caledonia, is completely collapsed today. A third of private employees have lost their jobs, many people are unable to feed their families, our public buildings, schools, churches, and above all, a large number of companies have been totally wrecked during these riots. There was a response in terms of public order that took a long time to come, because at the beginning of these riots, we did not have the means of sufficient force of order to respond to the extent of this violence that broke out. Consequently, it is a few months before the cessation of payment for our French territory of the Pacific. This is the reason why we have just raised the alarm bell here in Paris. You evoke a chaotic economic situation, some express today the fear of riots of the end, by the end of the year. Is it a concern that you share? It is quite a concern, I told you, a third of private employees. We have means of unemployment to partially compensate these people, but only for a few months. And in fact, we can see it well, the state so far, finally, makes a form of drip-drop perfusion, and does not allow us to give a little visibility to all these Caledonians, some of whom leave the territory massively. We have losses of doctors, we are no longer able to treat the Caledonians properly. In short, everything is in a situation of real collapse. Losses of doctors, the Alliance of Caledonian Nurses estimates, for example, that half of its staff could leave. There is the question of reconstruction, but there is also the question of political resolution, and the order in which things are done. Before engaging in this reconstruction, is it not necessary a resolution of tensions? Do you not fear having to start all over again if work, construction sites are engaged, and new violence emerges? You are completely right, we need guarantees. It is useless to put money in a well without a bottom. This is the reason why we voted for this resolution in a trans-partisan way, since some independents have voted in favor of this resolution, are in Paris. Finally, to tell the state that we are independents and non-independents today, a delegation that wishes appeasement, visibility for New Caledonia, we ask this new government that has just been put in place to reactivate the dialogue between the Caledonian partners and the state, which has its say, which is one of the three partners, with the independents, the supporters of France, of these agreements of the past and the future of New Caledonia. You know, we voted three times to stay French, so the state has an important role to play. Where is this dialogue today? Asked by Emmanuel Macron when he suspended the reform of the electoral camp. Well, the state was in a difficult period, since the government was not constituted, so we had no more interlocutors at the state level, and we need to start a dialogue again, between the independents and non-independents, but also the state. So today we are in Paris, we intend to see the Prime Minister Michel Barnier, but also the new Minister of Foreign Affairs François-Noël Buffet, to sensitize him on two things. Either the state reacts quickly, and New Caledonia is saved, because only the state can save it today, this French territory of the Pacific, or if nothing happens, it is the total collapse of our archipelago. In the background, there is the security situation, which remains very tense. You were attacked in early September. And just a week ago, two young men were shot during an intervention of the GIGN in Saint Louis, as always cut off from the rest of the world, because the road is not secured. The police came to try to arrest 13 people, among others, for shooting at the police, who are still there. And the authorities say that the GIGN shot in response to gunshots in their direction. You saluted this intervention of the police in Saint Louis, evoking a home of delinquency. You even said, very happy that it has finally taken place. Do you mourn at the same time the death of these two young men? The difficulty we have on Saint Louis, is that it has been a place for many years. You have almost 15,000 Caledonians who today cannot go to work, cannot go to the hospital, because this place is a place, a zone of great delinquency. We have been wishing for an intervention for months, knowing that the delinquents have been called to surrender, that they have never done so. The gendarmes to whom I want to pay tribute, and all the forces of the order in New Caledonia who act at the risk of their lives. You know, a young 22-year-old gendarme has lost his life in New Caledonia. His parents saw him come back between four boards to secure the Caledonians. We mourn all the human deaths in New Caledonia. It is obvious, we do not wish them. But it is important today that the force remains on the side of the law, and that finally, Saint Louis can be treated, and that these delinquents can be treated by justice, so that finally, the inhabitants of Mondeor, who today are completely cut off from the world, due to these real-life shots on them, but also on the forces of the order, can stop. The great chief custodian of Saint Louis, Roque Ouamitan, former president of the Congress, regretted that the police did not give more time to the discussions he was having with these young people to convince them to surrender. Can they not do otherwise than to kill our young people? He wondered. Are there no other formulas? I ask you the question, Virginie Rufnak. Are there no other formulas? You know, it's been more than 10 years that the authorities and the state try to work, especially with Roque Ouamitan and some custodians, to ask them to do a job to defuse this violence. You know, when parents were driving on the road of Saint Louis, they asked their children to get down so as not to take a stone or a bullet. But if each intervention of the forces of the order leads to deaths, shouldn't more chance be given to these negotiations led by the chief custodians? Don't you think that at all costs we should look for a way to avoid additional deaths? So, we are totally for there not to be deaths, but at that moment, the delinquents should have surrendered. What I want to tell you is that, looking at the violence that broke out on New Caledonia, we mourn the 13 lives that fell, but in fact, it is little compared to the extent of this violence that broke out. And in fact, the forces of the order have shown an exceptional cold blood in the situation they were in. The appeasement will inevitably pass through political discussions, as we said. Where is this dialogue? We mentioned it earlier, but the question is also about the content of this dialogue. Would you be ready today to engage in new negotiations on the future of New Caledonia in terms of sovereignty? In fact, today, we are ready to discuss with the independents, as we have always done in the past. Including independence? So, you know, there were referendums that took place, there were three, and that showed the clear choice of the Caledonians to stay within the French Republic. But the Numéa Accords foresee that discussions will continue in case of three refusals. So certainly, but not in the non-respect of democracy. When you plan referendums that must affirm democracy, the least you can do is to respect this democracy. In this case, the referendums that were put yes or no to independence were asked each time by the independents. We may prefer to privilege them. Not the last ones. So, the last one too, then in fact they withdrew, but they never withdrew their request for referendums. They asked at the time, as said the Foreign Minister Sébastien Lecornu, to organize it. Then, at the end, they wished that it would not happen. Nevertheless, they withdrew, they submitted a request for a third referendum And they never withdrew it. So, there is a bit of ambiguity in the approach they took. So, we are held by the respect of the choice of democratic Caledonians that was made in the context of the Accords. They chose to stay French, with many obstacles on their way to affirm this choice. In this context, we can discuss solutions, shared sovereignty, we are already there, and then evolution in terms of autonomy of New Caledonia. Thank you Virginie Rufnack, Vice-President of the New Caledonia Congress. You are also President of the group Le Rassemblement des Républicains in the Archipel. Have a good day. Thank you very much.