Testing Your Ideas Against Reality • Ft. Peter Boghossian • Critical Thinking Podcast

so thank you very much for finding time pleasure Rob Prager I was really looking forward oh good good yeah yeah thank you how did you hear about my work well it started when I came here so because they live with John Higgins he spoke a lot about you and actually that was ready that was even before you had the second part mr. drover broken the Rodian podcast yeah yeah he didn't tell me there's the first one you send it to me oh yeah yeah but then he barked about there's a corrective mechanism endless yeah yeah and then when the second one came out he showed it to me I listened to it I was like or how because for me exposing things and questioning things and just fighting the injustice of fallacies and just wrong thinking is very important so I was like whoa this is so awesome so looking forward one of the things I wanted to ask is even anything you want okay well you're an expert in critical thinking right that's my area which is incredible I look at critical thinking so much so to have an expert it's I think part of the problem is that everybody thinks if they think critically right everybody thinks that they're an expert critical thinker when in fact it's a little more complicated how would you describe what makes the difference between a layman and person who's really who knows their stuff pretty critical things good question a de Qi it's an attitude of this position somebody who's a good critical thinker is legitimately willing to revise their beliefs about something whereas sometimes our moral Minds override our rational minds so we latch on to an idea morally and we think the right thing to do is to believe that and we're less likely to revise our beliefs if that's the case so would you say that like a good critical thinker is one who's able to you know start with for a blank page write everything off as soon as she understands that there's a fallacy there or without the a definition or no I think a good critical thinker so this the American Philosophical Association Delphi report laid out the story plank and it's a skill set on attitude then the skill set is in my opinion far less important than the attitude right the attitudes like being trustful of reasoning that I'm willing to revise your beliefs being honest and facing your personal biases and most people don't do that they they become wedded to some identitarian concern like something to do with their identity there's some Laurel idea and then they just dig themselves deep into the rabbit hole they just go down and back down and then they have the father they go down the rabbit hole the more mental gymnastics they have to do to justify the beliefs that they have that are in tethered to reality we see that in martial arts all the time right you know you need these elaborate rituals and following and you know since master and ancient guru and it's all [ __ ] all a way to make up the slack between the evidence that you have for a belief and the belief and when the evidence is you have abilities out of a line with belief you have to do something to make that up right you get offended yell at someone punched somebody have a lab a ritual set up you have to do something to make up that's not right right into these very elaborate actually yeah yeah one thing that really caught my eye and I resonated with in the clip resentful you meant you mentioned the relationship between the lack of critical thinking and and kind of bad mentality or I don't know how to exactly this cry bit but but also you're seeking specific about martial arts so to get a simple example that if there's a lack of critical thinking in a given martial art that it may eventually to a bad character like a bad like a flawed person without that make sense to you do you think there's a better stuff so if you if somebody practices your martial art a fantasy based martial art I don't have the statistics of how many people practice these in relationship because certainly MMA is done is ubiquitous now and most people know that that that's just more effective I mean if you don't know that then you Riley I don't you really haven't been paying attention or you're just the person down the street who wants to put their kid in the program and you see a school and that's near your house and move you made the decision that way but what happens again with that that feel if if you practice a martial art most people realize after years of practicing and if they're honest that's the attitude that if they're honest intense sincere they realized that what they're doing won't work right you know all this stuff about throwing five guys with bats and that's total [ __ ] right now when those folks are honest with themselves if they decide they can make is a choice point they can decide to forego the nonsense and do something that works or do nothing at all or to dig themselves deeper into this belief system that they have that their magic will somehow great knock the knives out of their hands but in the price for doing that is he you become an [ __ ] right you become somebody who wields that like that itself is the type of attitude because you know that that doesn't work that it won't achieve what you think it will achieve or what you maybe maybe you just tell other people or maybe you have a financial motivation to do it right a studio you have a lot of kids and so there's an economic motivation to keep that highway all right so it's just a type of sincerity toward themself but like everybody else so that's possible to help what about a person who believes still believes that it's legit do you think that happens often enough or you think their people are somewhere inside they know that this is much listen okay yes now we have ways to test those claims and now we know what we know what works only five things that works that work we know what those are and we know it doesn't work but I want to I don't have an axe to grind against something that I don't like if someone thinks of the Hapkido or what how it was great and you prepare them against a professional MMA guy and it works then I'll adopt that technique so I'm glad there's no axe to grind against any of this stuff but it has to be tested and it's the simplest thing in the world to test it couldn't possibly be any easier right but some people don't do that in my in my experience like I've been in Aikido for years took me years to get to know that it's [ __ ] but I still have people coming at me saying that I'm wrong I'm saying that right now I'm publicly saying Aikido doesn't work there's a lot of people right but a lot of people don't get it like so that bias in there that's totally fine for them not right it instead of responses oh okay you know maybe I'm wrong all right so that's the attitude of critical thinking so you adopt the stance well you know what may be right come on in straight blast Jim here it is I will start you have a technique Lord of you you think you can't be taken down great we'll give you five minutes of the wrestling coach we'll see how that works and if it's if you're right then I'll adopt that but I'm not wedded to I'm totally open to change my mind provided the evidence you provide me the evidence I'll change my mind and if they resist looking for evidence like your theory well then there's a mansion like the inn and they're not being honest because it costs nothing five minute ten to five minutes of your time I'll be five minutes to get dressed and so it's you're only talking about maybe gas might but basically it costs nothing it's negligible right and it can be tested and the only reason they wouldn't want to test it is because if they already knew it wouldn't work right there's many reasons not tested right because they think that's like probably like deep inside they know it doesn't work but you mentioned in the beginning of the conversation they make these elaborate schemes of Oh for example like you know it's the out of peace so we cannot compete or it's too deadly for MMA that used to be a big a big kind of an excuse so do you think there's there could be this you think there could be this kind of a complex as a structure in their mind created to not admit the truth to do notice that it's the same with anything if you put time like money maybe blood sweat and tears it doesn't think the longer you're invested in something or less likely you want to forego it you say it doesn't work right but if you really are sincere about loving the truth and that won't be an issue for you right but that's why the component to creative thinking is that you have to start with a form of honesty about it here right and I would I would say to every single person out there who is not willing to test it that they're not being honest with themselves in the sooner you can be honest with yourself the more you confer away superstition and becoming adults and let go of fairy tales nonsense right well that kind of naturally leads to a next question and for including martial arts but also for any person what what should they look for when testing themselves whether they have critical thinking or not like if the person is not sure if the critical thinking is legit is up to good standards or not you mentioned the beginning some people think a lot of people think they have good critical thinking but not anybody does so so what what makes that difference how do a century to figure out sixty Seconds all you need to do is ask yourself one simple question under what conditions could my belief be false okay that's it it's a simple single one I'll repeat that yeah yeah under what conditions could my belief be false so take for example Marshall I think you know grabbing this way you know under what conditions of my am I willing to admit that that's wrong and the people can't even name the conditions under which it can be wrong right then there's a good chance that something at do you have the expertise but something's awry in Denmark like something's not quite right okay yeah yeah yeah so something something's not quite right there so it's it's more than likely at that point that they're holding that belief not in the base of evidence it's funny we all hold nan but you should be honest with yourself say you know what I'm I just I it makes me happy to think that this works I'm gonna continue thinking that this works but I'm not gonna lie well that would be a lie to myself and I'm not gonna lie it very at least okay then take a step back so it did it's called the feasibility under what conditions could these beliefs befall so in martial arts context I believe I can you know with with standish shoes from the wrestler okay well under what conditions could that well could be false if you test as opposed to never wrestled in my life if you can name the conditions then then that's a step forward and it put it in critical thinking and here's one more thing I'll say even asking us on that question can help you write because most people don't even ask themselves that question they do exactly the opposite they say well what's the evidence while my evidence is I've trusted five guys in the gym they have grabbed me and I've thrown them right and then that makes them more confident near the door but if you flip it around and you say under what conditions could that be false it creates a wedge and you're in cognitively in the way that you formulate your beliefs around a specific thing all right could you give some example like for in terms of martial arts like in terms of what what those conditions could be yeah so will you give me it like a technique let's say a technique which which is doubtful what question was would you pose that goal would be today's technique or a famous detail let's expensi let's see let's if you'd imagine yourself in a place of well Mike Relm used to date you know you probably saw a bunch of Aikido videos so somebody grabs you could have turned and the guy flies around but but what would what how would that questions like what weather conditions would be like what conditions would you say like as an example in the event you'd find somebody who comes from a legitimate school with a pedigree and you don't have to start with black you just start with purple don't there's someone approximately the same weight roughly I don't think gender matters that much and then you just say you know what I'm gonna see if I can throw you so that's the condition under which the belief that if someone grabs me this way I will toss him in the air could be false right the other component is that beauty is what Matt calls aliveness right being a timing energy motion so the person has to be a resisting opponent so the person doesn't want you to right so that's a condition under which it could be false or nobody could ever get me on the ground okay so the belief no one could ever get me on the ground how could that police be shown to be false well you could ask people who know how to take you to the ground to see if they can take you around and then what you do with everything else is you can calibrate the confidence in your belief well I walked into this MMA studio seven people with black belts tried to take me down they couldn't take me down that doesn't mean there could be any number of a reason value could be a shitty school who knows maybe who knows what the reason could be that's evidence of something it doesn't mean that belief is true it means you have to continue to test and refine it then you calibrate your confidence in long way well I was 70% seven black belt trying to throw me they couldn't now I'm 85% now I'm gonna go to another school and see what happens so it's a constant testing of yourself using reality reality based on physics and everything we have in the world the tests the beliefs that we have so in a way you find the places which are most questionable in your it's a much larger you find the places with our most casual a little questionable and then you try to see them if it's if it's really worth doubting or if it's actually which it kind of would that be one way yeah well you just you just say under what condition false I believe this works well that's tested and we have painful whelming evidence we have literally at this point tens of thousands of videos of people thinking they can throw people and then just getting the [ __ ] beat not that's so every it's getting bigger yeah and I mean so the question would then be this is the follow-up question right let's say that I have this belief I've generated the conditions under which could be false I have tested it and it turns out that I was wrong right the real question is am I going to continue to hold them that's the interesting question the easy part is the diffusability the the more difficult attitudinal partners will I then change my mind and most people are surprisingly recalcitrant and will not change their mind right because of time money embarrassment for saving face yeah but if you really want to be an adult in a real man if you really want to man up no one use that exact real adults changed their mind in the face of evidence and they say you know what I had this belief I was wrong about this I [ __ ] up to err is human that's what humanity is it's a series of making mistakes and being mature enough to admit that I was wrong in those mistakes and it's humility right that takes a certain humility it takes a certain militate for you as a black belt to go to the gym as a white belt yeah right and it takes a certain humility for me I've been doing this a long time I still suck for people that toss them around like a rag doll like John possibly I like a rag doll so without the kind of your suggestion or obviously expensive as well English sorry the heck kind of your suggestion to fantasy based martial arts people whatever you just said now without the your suggestion without your kind of wish to them that they would know my first wish to them is to be honest you have to be honest with yourself ask yourself what am I doing this for and if the sole answer to the question is community I'm doing this because I like these guys it's twice a week we go here after we have a few beers eat pizza great alright keep doing it that's cool but if your so if your answer to that is well you know community is good but I get I just get a great workout yeah I'm sweating like a dog at the end all right okay so you're honest with yourself well maybe I'd love to participate in that too but if the response to that question is that engaging in this behavior is going to increase the likelihood that I wanna fight you [ __ ] kidding yourself yeah you're living alive so why don't you just be an adult and be honest review them and test it on but don't [ __ ] yourself what do you think you're hurting than you lie to yourself do not hurt me you're not having any kids over there you only hurt yourself you remind me of I just recently learned this term so I made this mess it up but it's kind of like a like I think it's called like a racer in a debate like certain phrases which you rely on where you can see like okay this game would become a [ __ ] I don't need to continue talking yes I think like if you were to but so yeah probably that's why and one of them was if there's if the other person is not basing their thoughts arguments on evidence then it's a no-go would you also adapt something like that because like in Bishop martial arts what I oftentimes face is people telling me [ __ ] and then but there's no evidence they're like home I know because I know so remember how you asked me that one question you know what do you have to say and I said well my address okay so then you have to ask those people well what is your condition under which you would revise that valise mm-hmm and if so this is missus importance yeah so they have a few options so there are so many things someone can say to that they can say there are no conditions in the books my belief would be lost well then it's our religious great no you're like a religious fundamentals the person that's that or they can say here are the conditions and then you can test those conditions or you can say you know I really don't know and then you can work that out together we'll bit about like then you could provide it or what about this well and you could think it but the point is that if someone says there is no evidence then the response to that is then that belief is not room in the base of evidence because by definition before and belief in the basis of evidence means by definition that there must be some evidence that comes in that would cause you to revise your beliefs but if there is no evidence that your belief that you can cost around 10 dudes with knives is not based on evidence and you can help someone be honest with themselves and say well then you really don't believe that in the basis of evidence you don't even need a guy with him all you really need is like a twelve-year-old with heart and give them a magic marker yeah and just see and then have the other person go topless and then see if they can come you know do the black marks on the fur and they'll just be covered do you engage yourself in these debates like put both whether martial arts or just regular with people who just don't get it does that happen often in your life I mean my whole life is that's my whole life of every hour of every day okay so I just I know I am [Music] is it tiring it's really it isn't I guess it's uh you know I'm 52 and the older I get the more I realize that it's we don't really choose the things we believe so I give you newless examples of that but even in this country in the last few years attitudes have shifted dramatically about a wide range of things but the one commonality like a string through a pearls is that there'll be some widely held central belief and then more likely than not because of that a cultural being people who latch on to that you know I with the gender you mentioned the Rogen interview and James's Helen for clothes and I did this gender studies project the grievant studies project and this is very complicated but the ask as Christianity and Islam the Abrahamic traditions fell other and clear others and others have read about this like an increase in you know supernatural realm entities popular and that's increased right and so switching one for the other yes well people have called that the substitution hypothesis that we need some kind of ingenious written about this an aerial magazine that the default for humans is just believed we have two really crazy [ __ ] you know there's some Michael Shermer calls it a genius leaders agents everywhere controlling our fate Illuminati right you know like there's some secret cabal the Jews somebody's out there controlling the bank's you know so let's don't open and then pattern the city and Shermer writes about that we tend to see patterns and things but the key to be aware of is that it's only as you go back to that diffusion under what conditions could this be fine you know and again the example culturally is homosexuality when I was a kid the worst thing you could be called was a [ __ ] yeah like that was going to store like if you you lived in fear and you can ask other people 52 except if that's the case in this country at least I can't speak my country is behind time so it's it's more or less that is still more or less there so I can yeah okay so but those beliefs weren't really chosen by anybody they are enforced in society through shamed stigma there are mechanisms in place to to keep those beliefs active and always in your life kind of as you go through life you talk about critical thinking and martial arts and it's just it's just it's just the same question and this is really kind of heresy but the question is not well what's your evidence whatever this is again what I've discovered after doing this teaching teaching and writing and reading this stuff for a quarter century I always just ask people first question was what's their having into the Highlander that anyone where totally sometime in fact it's the worst thing you can talk about right because the moment you ask somebody for their evidence for something you know yeah this is what I learned from doing a new atheism for such a long time everybody believes that they have evidence for the things that they believe like you could find a crystal someone a Mormon Mormons consider themselves fishing or even jokin no but you could find anybody with any wacky belief and you can ask them what they believe and why they believe it and they'll run down this witness things unintended and then they'll use that as evidence of what they believe is really so the things that they said they're telling you they're your it's like every time you flip somebody with an ax key to a black belt and you're in Aikido black belt become more and more convinced that those techniques work we might just flip ten guys I went to this gym that just flipped those ten guys but that's the wrong way to think about it because you trapped yourself in a state of delusion and you know Kleinman talks about the easiest person to physicists finding in the time of the easiest person to fool is yourself by asking those two feasibility questions first someone believes they can do something doing that's a meeting with their evidence if someone believes guns immigration it's totally pointless they already think they have sufficient evidence to warrant belief that's why they believe it yeah nobody will say well you know what there's overwhelming evidence to believe this I really wish I didn't believe this but I'm gonna believe it in spite of the fact that there's a mountain of evidence against it you know I've gone to the gym I believed that if I did this wrist lock I got the [ __ ] kicked out of me by 20 blue belts and 15 white belts in a row I went to another town the same thing happens to me buddy says that people don't live their lives like that so instead just immediately go to the question of how could that gonna be false what conditions would have to be in place even hypothetically for me to change my opinion about that and if that's your go-to instantly about every question you'll dig yourself out of cultural beliefs and kind of cognitive sinkholes and that you wouldn't if you ask a question it is my because you just convinced yourself that the evidence the data points you think you have constitute sufficient evidence to warrant belief in something but you just came your self they're lying to self and the other piece of that talking Atari the other piece of that is that we we that's Matt's tattoo actually there's a match to attack I saw I've never read it it should read it it's a Bertrand Russell presentation it's basically that we barter our will to believe if I wish to find out you can read the actual quotations on but the idea is that if you should it's not about a will to believe something your wish to find out which truth should always supersede the will to believe right so in fancy terms your epistemology should become you should always ask yourself how do I know this and under what conditions could that be fast it's just simple it couldn't possibly be any simple it doesn't cost it doesn't even take 15 seconds we could lose our well hot arby's under what conditions am i willing to admit that this could be that I could be believing something in there are no conditions okay well then you don't believe in the base of evidence you just choose to believe it for whatever other answer which is fine but just be honest with yourself about it those debates do you think how useful do you think they are for the other person or for the whole like because I that's something I think about myself - it's like a lot of people are criticizing it believers like but entity based martial arts believers they criticize me and I sometimes question is it worth it should i do bait with them or is it better sometimes to just let them believe their own stuff because you are basic life for what I say that for example hero doesn't work they say they have a ten different reasons give me three what are the top three are the top five let's see Jitsu they compared to jiu-jitsu jiu-jitsu is a sport it's not self-defense for example what else is there that's tested you can test that right but they don't okay so the fact that they don't they shouldn't be mad at you they should say what's the second reason that it's me that's like you know sex it's not like you know that sucks although I did it for like you know okay well then they can test their own Aikido and so we got to two questions that comes back to them testing it what's the third reason that it only works in the street it's not meant to work against the professional fighter [Music] it's like you know that's their excuse to not go two digits a gym or to an MMA gym and to test it they're like oh so it works so people just want to make this people are upset with you right yeah so do you know Plato's Republic of you know so plato was a no Plato you know played out yeah in Socrates was a character in tears yeah yeah well and more or less so he has this thing called an allegory of the cave familiar with that some from the air but and either this is huge impact but it's yeah a pivotal thought not in the history of the Western intellectual tradition basically Socrates describes a situation allegory in which he's looking at the wall of a cave along with other people who are in prison and behind them as a fire casting images you know like a bear or whatever and the people look at the images in the wall and they think that they're real and they do this their whole lives this is an allegory right sure yeah the people in the cave are us like we're walking like and we think that these things are real but they're just shadows you know the deeper reality of things that are coming but it's very interesting that in the book seven of the Republic we rotate but the allegory of the cave Plato says that Socrates basically escapes the cave and he decides that he's going to go back into the cave to talk to people to talk to people to try to free the other prisoners yeah and he's very clear he says if they could kill him they would I mean that's gonna be kind of do eventually they do I think you kill them they would oh of course people aren't gonna be happy with you because you shop you sit long shadows these are just shadows these aren't and you've provided them with a way to figure out that their shadows right so think about the intense dishonesty somebody the intense dishonest cooker to hold on to the belief that they can toss people around like a rag doll tossed a resisting and hauling around you know at some point I'm not gonna say they need psychiatric help I don't know but I mean a little bit at some point there may be mental health issues for people who hold these employees yeah it's because thing about this because it does take a certain sort of person will tap so many times after so many years and many people who still do fantasy based martial arts are simply not willing to undergo that you know like what Matt is on top you I mean it is just but you know it's like when someone is just sucking your breath in the library you and you're just trying to hold on for dear life it takes a certain kind of a person to not tap under them and maybe a lot of the folks you still continue to practice this simply don't have that disposition we just say it's worth debating with them nevertheless or you think it's there's a language you're like this is not worth it because sometimes it's exhausting but it doesn't go far I think if you want to help humanity yeah again I think what you're doing is a valuable service it's worth engaging I guess you know the Opera - what else - there's an opportunity cost what else would you be doing there's a question of how in needs will they be the good thing is in that case there has anybody attacked you either either they're not so enraged or they know it in their heart that what they're doing is [ __ ] there is always a value in the world iconic glass breaking icons but there's always a value in going back into the cave and showing people hey look you believe this stuff that's not true providing the person who goes back into the cave is willing to reconsider their beliefs as long as you're willing to reconsider your bullies quite as long as somebody says to you hey man I'm gonna the first thing you should say is not the first he says cool awesome let's test that yeah and if you've got something cool that I don't know about that it works I'm gonna put it in my game sure so thank you for teaching me that thank you for coming so not that's [ __ ] that won't work but right we tested those tests down let's see and I'd love to learn from you if that works but the testing has to happen well yeah or if it doesn't happen why should you believe anybody there's no it's just make-believe way I think it's a little bit of a silly question but actually asked him at that a while ago and I'm very curious about your opinion do you think there will ever come a date where the majority of people will be good critical thinkers rather than the opposite because these days sometimes it looks like it's the opposite the critical thinking is we're like good people thinking do you think that tipping point will ever happen or what would sir perspective on our that's a very interesting and difficult question I think that we all from evolution have we're predisposed to have biases and a little you think about something and Steven Pinker the Harvard psychologist talks about people act in some way because that to morally motivated professor of sociology Jonathan hi righteous mind says that morality binds and blinds and the problem in a lot of critical thinking is that there are moral dimensions to these things and as long as those moral dimensions so thinking about like this Plato Plato talks about a chariot the other work area yeah yeah it's like there's a horse a lead horse and then other horses on the chariot the desire and petty native stuff as long as reason is the lead horse in the chair move you're fine right right so you want to make a decision just make sure that take everything out emotions feelings also take everything in economy but just make sure that reason is is leading you away and that begin is where those questions of how could my belief be wrong right that's how you keep yourself in check right yeah so reason is the main force returning the problem is that we live in cultures that have different ideologies that are sent into descended different moralities and we have all these competing ideas especially with this in this global era of globalization in instantaneous technology that make it incredibly difficult for us to overcome or even keep those biological now we can go online and we can just google anything we want to find and use that as a data point like look this is evidence for this or this is evidence for this although increasingly by the way in Aikido and mixed martial arts it's becoming more difficult to find anything that feeds the belief that if you do Aikido you're going to be an animator yeah so to answer your question directly I don't I don't think so I think as dr. King said Michael Shermer said the moral arc does bend towards justice I think things are getting better that's right but whether or not I don't I don't whether or not we'll all be this kind of ideal critical thinker I doubt it I doubt it but I will say I think that the mechanisms the tools that we have now for figuring out what's true and false are far better than they were before but the amount of the number of people who have megaphones and the fake news the disinformation is more greater but that should call us to act to place more importance on critical thinking not less important so to answer your question directly I don't know the answer to your question my thinking would be probably not there kind of reminds me though of that phrase whether it's Einstein or someone else if I don't know where the world would be if not for those few good people who are doing something good pray so it's kind of reminding that there's always going to be evil but if nobody does anything then we're [ __ ] so I guess it's a little bit like that too it's like mmm there's never gonna be a point where everyone is going to become a good critical thinker but but there has to be someone who's doing that otherwise we're screwed yes we came back we can become what we can approximate that light we can keep getting closer and closer and better right in my judgment you can take this for what it's worth morality binds and blind is Jonathan Hyde again it's the reason that we're not capable of thinking more clearly about something is almost always one of two things is awfully there's either a moral concern or identitarian concern and they can be both I mean the trans issue is a good example of that race and IQ is a great example all the things we can't talk about the definitely as long you know Peter singers example of what do we do at people who have IQs under 25 I mean these are very very complicated questions and what we see now is the emergence of ideologues who will total certainty are completely convinced that have the answers to these moral question they couldn't possibly have the answers to moral questions because they can't present the feasibility candidate they can't tell you how their beliefs could be wrong so how could they possibly they're just but it's very difficult when we're all swimming in this pond now and it's so polarized and one more thing Ortiz James Lindsey says each side views the other side not only is bad but as an existential polarization like that if these people ascend somehow that's a threat to our very existence so that complicates critical thinking because they are then tossed into the soup in which we can't have conversations everybody's walking on eggshells or certain things you just can't discuss and I find that happening there's certain things I'm just simply not going to tweet I'm not going to wait why would I bother I got some people hate me Ari which they do I want to add like an extra you know 20,000 in some fringe community you know yeah but that's a good thing your martial arts is simple to test - it's so easy where as figuring out complicated moral questions about a migrant caravan in the gray sweater those things are much more difficult right but it sounds like in your book it's worth doing I mean it's your job it's a profession but it's worth doing it pushing the critical thinking pushing evidence-based thinking - majority as long as your causing you the fact that that people you ate yeah that's kind of the price yeah and and it's becoming increasingly nasty you know if you s Co you rise up like Neil deGrasse Tyson and then all these women saying you know the more your fame or popularity the followers or subscribers are clear where that grows the more people who are used whatever the zeitgeist is the need to movement I got a date with this guy rate me or the more likely because occurrences are you know I had a meeting with this guy or just watches just watching the series the newsroom wonderful shoes I like to enjoy but you know there's a good have you seen a series the ton the newsroom lives on HBO no what is it it's about a newsroom it took place in a few years ago and it was predated so early 2000s this is it's a very snappy witty dialogue of people who run a newsroom and their public perception of the media and how they're viewed and what ratings are but the point the bottom line cameras use and we lost but the bottom line is that anytime you want to engage a controversial issue you have to know that there's a price to be paid it's quite and now people can anonymously accuse you of anything where they can you know there are prices to be paid because people don't like their sacred sacred beliefs you know when the Tao in italics the sacred beliefs to be criticized her and here the guy walking in the cave pointing - yeah he's a shadow so it depends what kind of life you want to lose you know all right yes the very last question to make sure we put into time including critical thinking what would be the suggestion for anyone ask yourself under what conditions could these be false this belief to be false be honest with yourself that's the first thing the second thing is don't hang out with only people who hold the beliefs that you hold this is the alternative you know listen to if I follow people on my Twitter feed to a conservative from your bull who hold different beliefs many of whom are friends of mine so I follow out of her obligation because I just so find people who have different thoughts find friends who have different thoughts be honest with yourself in the third thing anytime lying to yourself is particularly toxic lines other people is one thing but lying to yourself it is we're doing it it's amazing cause question it's a bug injustice towards this off and I think people can be unjust towards oneself and then the fourth thing is just one always a couple with that honesty and sincerity is you just you don't want to assume that the person with whom you're speaking has bad intentions and we do that so much in our culture we just assume the other person's an [ __ ] right well he voted the chompy's racist well actually no you voted for claim you know whatever but just really start with the assumption that the person with whom you're speaking is not an [ __ ] and that one little act of charity we were a long way in communications yeah it's kinda like the seven Habits of Highly Effective People seek first to be under to seek first to understand then be understood that really try to understand and then ask questions called Rapoport wheels like is this what we need just to the space this is my wife like she said something like disputes is this what you mean is this appealing and she really trying to understand rephrase what it is that they said to you in a way that they it's they invented that processes it's so clear I wish I had expressed it that way and when you do that that group builds a lot of charity and goodwill and it's very difficult to assume ill intent to do that yeah cool well that wraps up with my questions would you like to make a summary like a short summary huh like what's the main will be our main message the main message is be honest with yourself ask yourself how your beliefs can be wrong you be willing to come in the realm of martial arts to be willing to test those don't do any [ __ ] like oh this is too big you know it's over that's [ __ ] that's a way to be dishonest and again maybe you just do something maybe here just some you have you know a lot of people have claustrophobia they just can't deal that's fine just be honest with yourself right now don't lie to yourself I have claustrophobia and another dude on top of me creeps now I just can't do it as long as you're honest with yourself but the main deliverables always ask yourself that question how could my belief be wrong and if it's show wrong am I willing to change my mind about it perfect thank you very much thank you thank you