(Ep. 196) PSLF Problem-Solving: Employment Certification, Timelines, & Reconsideration Requests

What's up everybody, it's Megan Landris. I wanted to preface this podcast episode, and if you're watching on YouTube, this YouTube video, that things have changed since Ben and I had recorded this upcoming podcast. This next episode will be about introducing Ben, our new consultant to the team. We also talk a lot about public service loan forgiveness and the PSLF waiver. However, some of the facts in there as far as timing may have changed with August 24th announcement. So let me just explain that real quick. So the Biden and Harris administration, August 24th announced a major student loan relief plan. There are three components to it that you need to know. We do have that on our podcast list. Check our emergency podcast episode about this, where Travis does a deep dive. So I wanted to come on here before you listen to this upcoming episode, make sure you knew that things had changed. If you haven't listened to the prior emergency podcast episode with Travis, maybe go do that first, and then check out this episode where we're introducing Ben and talking a little bit about some of the things to expect with the PSLF waiver. Here we go. What's up everybody, it's Megan Landris. And today we have Ben Lacomas on our student loan planner podcast episode. We are going to introduce the newest student loan planner consultant to the team, Ben. And we're also going to talk through a couple of things. So quick bullet point list of what we're going to cover on this episode will be Operation Fresh Start. For those in default, we'll be talking about the PSLF waiver with some of the timing issues that we've been seeing or hearing about, the PSLF reconsideration process, and just a few things that we keep seeing in our PSLF eligible Facebook groups. But let's circle back to the beginning. And let's start with introducing Ben. So hey, Ben, thanks for joining us today. Hi, Megan. Thank you very much. As a longtime listener, it's funny to be here as a guest or speaker on the podcast. Yeah. Well, I'm excited to introduce you. And I think we actually connected via LinkedIn, because you had professionally slid into my LinkedIn DMs asking about some like student loan technicality questions, like just questions. And you know, I love that stuff. So I would love to just give you the floor to tell us a little bit about yourself. What got you into the financial planning industry? What is drawing you to student loan repayment planning? And we could jump in from there with some quick facts about yourself. All right. Well, I'm excited. As you said, I slid in professionally to your DMs, because I know and have known for a very long time that the student loan planner team does really amazing and awesome work. And if I'm stumped by technicalities in the few years of student loan planning, there was one place to turn. So I feel like I've been following the student loan planner boat for a while and I'm flag or flying the flag starting today. So that's pretty exciting for me. I am in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I was born and raised here, born, raised, educated and employed is generally what I tell people. I think I think I'm at risk of being a lifer in Pittsburgh, or as a lot of people might know, a yinzer. But I don't necessarily embody that. What does that mean for those who don't know? Because I don't know. And that's probably bad. Oh, goodness. Yeah, there's a few people on the team, actually, who's been to Pittsburgh a few times, lived here for a couple months, and Lauren was born here. So we've already had the yinzer conversation, but it's the it's the local term. And I feel like it more applies to the classic Pittsburgh sports fans. And I say this as lovably as possible as a resident, there's a somewhat grungy accent that goes to it that I'm not going to disturb any of our, our listeners with. But if you've heard a yinzer accent, it's, it's fun to try to speak. But I was glad to hear there are other, you know, other Pittsburgh fans on the team. And much like you, again, I got, I got my start with a large financial company really just trying to focus on financial planning, and quickly discovered that one of the biggest underserved and exciting parts of financial planning is the student loan. So I have been following the content because of that, because I got my certified student loan professional or CSLP designation four years ago, and have been doing financial services probably for, for seven years. So I'd say now for the majority of my career, student loans have really been the sole focus. What, so along with being something that's just, I feel like needed with professionals these days, like a needed part of financial planning, the student loan side of things, what also interests you about student loan repayment? Or like, why do you have that natural like curiosity about student loans? Yeah, and I, I think there are, I think there's a numbers driven, and I guess we've used the word technicalities a few times, there's almost like a, I hate to use the word game, because sometimes clients or people say, are we gaming the system? But it is almost like a strategy, and you have to understand the rules and the environment you're in and make decisions from there. So it's, it is this quirky area of planning that's really exciting to get into the weeds because of the opportunities you can create for people that, that other people can't see. So the numbers side, I'm sure we all have that, we're all crazy, huge student loan nerds on this team, and I'm learning and wealthing very quickly. The personal story is, is kind of, I would bet it's not what most people think when they think, why should you get into student loan planning? And I say that because I, I've never had any student loans. And I'm the black sheep in my family of everyone being connected to medicine now. So my parents both worked for the university I went to as a physician, the University of Pittsburgh or Pitt, my brother is there, his fiance is there, other family members are in medicine. So I grew up with, I guess, doctor talk at the table, which is why I started specializing in physician financial planning, getting ahead of myself. But my parents in medicine and with their careers have just done a truly unspeakable amount of good for my brother and I and the amount of support and care they've given us and have provided us in their life. Only one small bit or Taylor evidence of that is that I didn't have any student loan debt. And they're both really prudent, hardworking, financially savvy people. And before I was even in college, I got to travel like a pretty crazy amount. I got a free tuition and I come out of school and my, my girlfriend of four years, Taylor and, you know, I, and a lot of friends, colleagues, clients, right out of graduating, I see what student loan payments and fixed payments do. And to not have been, you know, to not have that burden is an opportunity that sometimes seems unfair, but I'm just really, really happy and proud of and thankful for the position I'm in because of them. And so, you know, they're going to have a wonderful retirement, they've done great things for us, they helped us get our education. If I can give that feeling to more people, whether it's the parents or the student or the borrower and help them get rid of whether it's financial student loan debt or student loan anxiety, or just those things like that is the, that's the impact driver for me. And in the financial services space, kind of tilting towards medical professionals is because I personally experienced what they do, you know, for their families and want to provide and really will attend a lot of career paths for good parents do. But I also know, you know, caring for a patient a lot, particularly my dad's been an ALS specialist. So he needs to give people bad, bad news and take really good care of them. And to me, I was always looking for some impact work. It wasn't medicine, but I do love helping people with student loans. Yeah, that's that's the background why a little personal. Yeah, that's a beautiful answer. I love that. Well, cool. Well, and we'll talk a little bit about some interesting cases you've seen recently, even before coming on to the student loan planner team. I thought it would be fun to do some quick, just fun questions to get to know you fun and kind of random questions. So first question, what has been your favorite purchase in just most recently under $100? What has been like the coolest thing you've done or purchased within, you know, recently under 100 bucks? That's funny that that's such such an easy question. I haven't like I don't buy myself new things too often. So it's like it's going to be an experience based answer. So let me think of like the favorite meal I went out to. Yeah, it would be dinner. It would be literally going out to dinner is my favorite expense. But I feel like that's a little embarrassing. That's not that fun of a fact, Megan. No, that's fine. I mean, that's what a lot of folks do for entertainment these days, like going out to a good dinner, getting, you know, a really good meal, good drinks. What's your favorite restaurant in your area that you like to go to? Lately, there has been a definitive winner and it's making it it's making it hard to appreciate other Pittsburgh has an amazing restaurant. So there are a lot of good options. But one in particular is a tie option that disappeared years and years ago when I was in college. I go with my family, they have a little like cement patio and chain link fence and the food was like amazing. Now they've reopened in a high end building and the food still just as good. But yeah, it's delicious Thai food, a really cool cocktail menu, really cool atmosphere. I joke, it's like being in a James Bond villain, you know, big layer. I like dressed enough to go there, too. But it's not super expensive. I think, yeah, might have just kept your hundred dollar question if we include the. Yeah, cool. Oh, nice. That's a good answer. I think I'm similar. I don't buy a lot of like material things, but the experiences like I could quickly think of a few. OK, next question. What flavor ice cream would you be and why? It would be like fun, but also serious, you know, so it can't be too crazy or complex. I would say like chocolate ice cream with some good sort of mix in. I like a cookie crumble or like a cookies and cream kind of guy. But, you know, part of part of a child's mind of an adult, you know, lighthearted, wants a fun flavor in my ice cream, but nothing too sugary and outlandish. It can't be like bright blue and squirrely with color. But I do like sweet, sweet. Nice. Have you had the Ben and Jerry's? It's Jimmy Fallon's ice cream. I can't remember if there's like a name for it, but it is. I think it's cookie crumble, like chocolate, vanilla and like brownie batter or something. It's delicious. It's my favorite one, but that sounds like what you're expecting. I'm going to say, yes, I've had that, but I haven't specifically had Ben and Jerry's in a while. I like the ones that have the cores. And in my marketing class, I learned years and years ago, learned that Ben and Jerry, apparently, one of them was taste blind or like didn't have high taste sensitivity. So that's why they do so many textures and add-ins is because he still wanted to experience goodness. So I do love Ben and Jerry's because I like when there's mix-ins. But yeah, as I said, a vanilla or chocolate base, throw in some cookies. I'm very happy. That's fascinating. I did not know that. That's cool. Hopefully I didn't make it up. I think I remember that correctly. That is one of my go-to fun facts. So I should make sure it's accurate. Someone's going to be Googling this right now. Yeah, email us if Ben's wrong. Yeah, let them know. All right. If you had a magic button on your desk to bring you whatever you wanted throughout the workday, what would you summon? I mean, right now I already pretty much do when I open the door, my dog comes in, but I don't always want that as much as I love him. I feel like I'm a fruit fly. And if I could snack on one thing, like just fresh fruit, bring me a peach, bring me some cherries while I'm working. If there's a button to do that, I'm game. I would be endlessly energized to work my heart out with some good fruit in me. Nice. Good. And last question, more related to your work with us at Student Loan Planner. What's one thing that you would like people to know about you before they start, or not necessarily before they start working with you, but if they see your name on a consultation that they're scheduling, what would you like someone to know about you and be ready for for the consultation? I want people to know that I'm willing to, I want to hear them, I want to hear their emotions, why they scheduled the call, what's really important to them. I might, you know, might try to make the call a little bit fun, because there's many of these things that are technical and detailed and, and boring, you know, more importantly than the details and the recommended course of action. I like letting people know that like, you're okay, or you're doing a good job, or you're doing the right thing, or like, sure, you've made a mistake, like, it's still okay, you don't need to beat yourself up, move on. So I like to make sure I'm listening and hearing people out. But everyone in the student loan world, I think, needs reassurance. And it's nothing of them. It's just a confusing and complicated system we're talking about, and feel like I need to just help people have more clarity and confidence in their bones. And that even before a recommended course of action, sometimes a big deal for people. They just want to know they're okay. Okay, cool. Well, let's jump on into I think a really interesting case you had mentioned recently. And this goes to the tune of working with a professional when it comes to student loans and having somebody really know the nuances and the implications of certain decisions that you make with your student loans. But tell us a little bit about the case that you shared with me earlier about the CPA and the client. Yeah, definitely. And I know this is something as CSLPs, Certified Student Loan Professionals, we bring up. And designations and credentials in this industry are huge and mean a ton. We just had a conversation about this before the podcast started. And some of the best and most longstanding practicing accountants, they've only ever really gotten a half a page of training on student loans. CFP is very, very similar. It's not something that's focused or touched on. And the same story holds true for all things in financial planning, whether it's tax, the state, student loans, insurance, investing. The whole plan needs to be speaking together or speaking or at least aware of what the other is doing so we're not creating redundancies or inefficiencies. And because of that, not being a tax professional, working with quite a few or referring clients to quite a few, some definitely have learned that got some student loan expertise. And at first, I would say there's like a little, whoa, he's recommending things about my job. And it's their expertise. So that's uncomfortable for anyone. But when you're just educating them and opening the door to like, this is how taxes impact student loans. Like I emailed an accountant months ago and said, hey, can this client file an extension? And they said, no, they have everything ready to go. But we were thinking of it for student loan purposes, showing a $300 a month resident pay instead of closer to $2,000 a month. And I showed them, I was like, this will save $1,700 a month for a year on loans that are ultimately going to get forgiven. And like, no idea that that was going to happen. So he's elated. And he's like, I can do that much more good for people with knowing. And so that same accountant, more present now, only a couple of months ago, unfortunately, right after the tax deadline for this year said, hey, Ben, I'm working with a friend. He's a friend and client, long-term family friend. He means a ton to me. I know he's got student loans. I know his wife does. I'd really like them to connect with you. And this was probably in May or late April. And I was like, perfect. On the back of his head, he knew I was a student loan guy, but he was thinking student loans are paused. So nothing is going to be relevant for their taxes this year on student loans was the thought. And it was the absolute best of nature. And just didn't know that the reason we needed to get in front of him was that his friend was an orthopedic surgeon going from training years to attending years. And this individual is going from 60,000 to potentially 10x their income. And for a lot of listeners who know the details of income-driven retainment plans, we know that's a huge deal because some plans have caps. Some plans don't have caps in them. And some you can't get into once you're earning too much. So I was introduced after a married filing joint tax return was already submitted for 2021. And it was after the April 15th deadline. Great thing we were referred and the accountant on the back is my friend too for introducing us. But we're saying like, hey, this is an important conversation because he was working with another advisor and again, best of intentions, but giving traditional debt advice, didn't know forgiveness and didn't know the quirks of an income-driven repayment plan. But he said, refinance all your loans, just pay them off aggressively. You're making plenty enough money. And while there is the income there to handle the loan, that was going to cost him more than $240,000 additional to what the forgiveness plan would cost. And we kind of showed him that in talking. And he definitely wanted to pursue forgiveness with getting a lot of extra credit through the waiver. But now the joint return was in and even his income alone next year, he plus the spouses, he can only get into revised pay as you earn really. So his payment instead of being capped around just pulling this number out of air, but say around $3,500. Now in the latter years of forgiveness, he could be paying closer to $6,000 a month. So he's still getting a lot out of going for forgiveness. And he was managing his student loans appropriately and thinking about them. But the return didn't align with the strategy of minimizing payments and maximizing forgiveness, which he's now on. And it's like a $40,000 to $60,000 blunder. And it's like no one's fault. Well, sometimes I kind of blame the system for everything. It's the system's fault, lack of communication and awareness. But it's certainly not your tax professional or any tax professional thought or fault or financial planner. It's just a unique area. And so we were able to help them a ton and help really, once again, give them that clarity and confidence to say, here are exactly what all of your options look like. Here's some what ifs, these safe changes in your income, and just being able to talk them through that. And very smart guy, way smarter than me, I'm sure. I was just showing him his options. And once he understood them, pretty easy for him to say, this one's in my best interest. I'd like to do that. So it's arming them with that clarity and confidence that they're too busy operating on people to read prom story notes and all the other things that we student loan nerds do. Yeah. Well, and this is a case where he did a great job with trying to get the right team in place. Like he had the CPA doing taxes. He had a financial professional. And your CPA was, your friend's CPA was good enough to include you into the conversation because your specialty was student loans. And so he, you know, this borrower had the right idea to doing everything right. It just is unfortunate how timing there didn't work out perfectly and how these pieces all talk to one another. So, you know, and this just goes to show that anyone listening to this podcast, you are the driver for your own financial planning ship. Like you are the boss and you're who can bring these people in. But it's also important to bring, I think, the right people in at the right time or is probably as early as possible to make sure that you don't miss out on opportunities because it can be very expensive from a time perspective or from a monetary cost perspective if you're making a misstep. And it's unfortunate because all of those steps were almost right. It's just the timing wasn't right there. You need a good team on your side. I like that analogy. And if the professional is honest and true about knowing what they know and knowing what they don't know, and that's something I always try to put out there, maybe even more than I should. I never, if I'm not 100% on something, you're going to know. I'm going to find the answer for you to the best of my ability. But I don't want to put the cart before the horse. I've used that analogy a few times today. I don't know why that keeps coming through my brain. But I don't want to make any rush decisions and want to make sure that when an expert needs it and they're going to know something beyond what I know for things like mortgages, I absolutely want them to be a part of the equation. That's not my area of expertise. Isn't that saying like raising kids, it takes a village? I think raising your financial plan takes a village as well. Yeah, it does take a village. Very weird village. A lot of interesting people in that village. Well, cool. Well, let's jump in and start talking about, I figured we could cover a newsworthy topic that dropped recently. And then we can get into some more public service loan forgiveness stuff, PSLF waiver stuff, timing things, stuff like that. But the first thing, I actually had someone forward this article over to me. It was about Operation Fresh Start. So this is going to be relevant to anyone who is in default status or whose loans are not in good standing right now, which is probably not a lot of people on this call because I know folks listening to this are very aware and they're on it. But if you know someone or you have a parent or a friend who might be in a sticky situation with their student loans right now, this Operation Fresh Start is a pretty big deal, I would say. So what this is, is it's going to be helping people get out of default. And default is when you stop making your payments, you get sent to a collections company. And what's also a little weird right now is folks that are in default, any type of federal loan that's in default right now, those collection companies have stopped collecting payments. They've stopped calling about that overdue balance. So some folks may not even know that they're in default if they forgot about it or if it's been a long time, like they stopped making payments before COVID started. We all know COVID got crazy and now we're in a time warp. So those who are in default can now get out of default. Originally, there was only three ways to get out of default. You'd either have to pay the loan off in full, you'd have to look at a loan rehab program, which is where you'd make nine on-time payments based off of income. It's about a 15% calculation off of your income for nine consecutive months. Then you'd get flipped out of the default status. Or you could consolidate out of default, where that's where you either combine the loans that are outstanding or convert that FFEL loan that's outstanding in default. And that's one of the fastest ways to get out. So those were the three ways. Folks who had already used two of those options. So paying a loan off in default is sometimes not an option for someone. And so if they've already used the consolidation option or they already had loans that were consolidated before they went into that default status, then that's not an option. And so they have to do the loan rehab program. But if they've already done the loan rehab program in the past, they can know that's a one-time opportunity. So you're kind of stuck in that environment and you have to deal with the collections company going forward or get an attorney to represent you. But this Operation Fresh Start, it's also impactful to those folks because you can now pull yourself out of default, but you do still have to take action. We originally thought that this was going to be something automatic, where I don't know how we thought this was going to happen. But that's how it was made to sound when this first got announced, that they were going to pull everyone out of default. But upon closer look and from what it's starting to say on studentaid.gov, it does seem like you do have to take action with calling the Department of Ed's default resolution group to implement this or to get your name in the hat, I guess you could say, to pull yourself out. But did I summarize that okay? Or is there anything I left out, Ben? No, I think that's a really good summary. And definitely, it's a surprise, but it's also not. I think a lot of times we're a little optimistic about new programs coming in, and we want them to be smooth and simple to understand for borrowers. And we all tell ourselves it's getting easier, but even new program comes out. Yeah, I think not a big surprise to us that ultimately the borrower needs to take action. But it still sounds like it's going to be an amazing opportunity for, as you said, probably not a huge number of our regular listeners. But for people that have just had no other options and have been struggling with their loans and need to get them out of default, it sounds like this is an amazing opportunity. And there is a little bit of a timeline on this from what it sounds like so far. And I keep saying, you know, how it sounds or what we think, because they haven't posted too much about this yet on studentaid.gov. But it seems like they're about to. So we're going off of the little information that's already on studentaid.gov. But it does seem like there is an expiration to this for people who are in default to take action. And that's to call the default resolution group one year from the COVID extension. So that's set to expire August 31st. So we take that to believe one year from August 31st. You'll have the opportunity to call the default resolution group, get your loans out of default, and make payment arrangements. So the default phone number that their group phone number is 1-800-621-3115. So 1-800-621-3115 if anyone needs to make that call. So, but I thought that was important to touch on. You know, if you know anyone who's in that situation or who's been kind of stuck with their loans in that default status, this Operation Fresh Start does seem to be like something that they should definitely consider. Now let's get into some public service loan forgiveness details. And I actually went through the PSLF eligible Facebook groups that we created. So there's a couple of Facebook groups on, you know, now that you could go in and join. They are occupational based. So we have one for physicians, for teachers, for other like public service professionals. So go check that out on Facebook if you'd like to be part of the conversation or, you know, have some other people to ask questions to or get an idea of their experiences from. But I went through and I kind of picked through some of the questions that I've been seeing in those Facebook groups. And I brought, I wanted to bullet point a few topics that I keep seeing consistently. And so that way, Ben and I can address those questions or those thoughts today. So with that first bullet point, let's talk, Ben, a little bit about the consolidation, restarting your payment count to zero if you needed to consolidate your loans for the PSLF waiver. I'll turn it to you. I was going to say that even I think when you go on to look at consolidation, I believe there's a big warning right there in yellow. Correct me if I'm wrong, Megan, but I think that was the warning when I checked that even says, you know, this could temporarily set your payments back to zero. Basically, don't be alarmed, though, because it is going to take some time to manually count these submissions for everybody. And from what we've been hearing from student loan borrowers, if they're submitting these, it's coming in chunks. Right, Megan? That's what you've been hearing, too. Yep. Yeah. So those who have to consolidate or wanted to consolidate for the PSLF waiver eligibility or for rounding payment counts up. Yeah, they're getting this notice. The first notice that they get about their payment count, it panics them because it says they have zero payments towards PSLF when they know they had some before they consolidated. And so the second paragraph of that letter that you're going to get from either Mohila or FedLoan is very relevant. It says something to the effect of, you know, hey, it's OK. We're counting up payments still. You'll see updates to your account within the next couple of weeks to months. So that's basically them telling you that they're not done, that first they applied the original PSLF rules, which would have erased PSLF payment credit, unfortunately. But that has been waived because of the PSLF waiver as long as you consolidate by October 31st. So it'll temporarily reset it. But you'll start to see some updates from there to your payment count. It's just it's a clunky process. And I guess that's to be expected with anything student loan related. Now, another thing I've been seeing, and we've actually gotten some emails about this, too, is Mohila or FedLoan is asking for folks who have submitted an employment certification form to also provide a W-2. What are your speculations on that or why maybe these servicers are asking for a W-2? Yeah, it's interesting. I think they're either trying to use W-2s to confirm the tax ID number, the EIN number that people are submitting for their employment certification form. I don't, to my knowledge, I don't think they've been doing that in the past. So unless that's a new prompt that they're supposed to be doing, it could also purely conjecture on my end, you know, be the result of just new and admittedly inexperienced loan servicers getting into the fold as everything is already so chaotic. I always kind of urge people, yes, please read all of your borrower communication, but also read what it says and think through it. Because I've had plenty of letters also come out that say, like, you need to do this. But they're just speaking broadly to a population and not assigning any dates to things. Communication from servicers is always interesting to me. Yeah, no, you're right. Because there is also the automated communication that is triggered when something happens, like an announcement from the Department of Ed has been made, or you have submitted an employment certification or a consolidation application. There's those automated communications that will come out that are just very generic and vague and aren't super specific to you necessarily. It's meant to be like, hey, you did this, here's some more information. So what you really want to be paying attention to is things that do seem to be directly a call to action. Like you have to do this by this date because of X, Y, Z. Those are the things to really look out for. And a lot of the general correspondence we're seeing is just telling people to wait too, which is really hard, I think, for people to do. And that's another big, big topic that I keep seeing within these Facebook groups about when are they going to process my employment certification form? When will I get my loans moved over to Mojila? There's a lot of moving pieces right now. And waiting is really hard when student loans already make people really anxious and this process is still very clunky and there's a deadline. So I can understand the anxiousness around the timing questions. So the timeline that we've been seeing on average, I'll kind of skip to the timing and then we'll go back to a couple other just kind of clunks that we want to tease out. But timeline for PSLF. So what we've been seeing based on people who have been posting their timelines within this Facebook group or clients who've been keeping us in the loop. So if you had to consolidate for public service loan forgiveness, we're seeing that take about 30 to 45 days to settle. And that is pretty good compared to what it used to be. It used to take a little bit longer from what I remember closer to maybe 60 to like 90 days. So they are getting a little faster, thankfully. But what they're doing when they're consolidating is they're bundling those loans together and they're moving them to the company that you told them to move them to, which if you're pursuing PSLF, it's going to be Mohila. Generally, if you were already at Mohila, that consolidation will be a little faster because they don't need to move from one entity to another. But generally 30 to 45 days once or after you submit the consolidation for the consolidation to be done. Then if you've already submitted an employment certification form or once they receive or confirm receipt of your employment certification form, it's been taking about 30 to 90 days for them to update your payment count. And that's through those multiple auto-generated emails that tell you what your payment count is, how many eligible payments you have compared to how many qualified payments you have and how many more you have left to go. And then, so payments updating. If you're someone who's already at over 120 payments, you might see that payment count update, the qualified payment count update to over 120. And then you'll see what we've been calling trophies in these Facebook groups where you'll see a literal trophy in your account that is supposed to signify that you've made it to public service loan forgiveness. You've gotten 120 qualifying payments. So that's usually what happens after the payment count is finalized. That's the 30 to 90 day window. And then once you have the trophies, that doesn't mean your balance is wiped out immediately from what we've noticed. It usually takes another 30 days for them to actually forgive the loans and for you to see your balance zero out. So backing that up, if you had to do the consolidation and submit the employment certification forms and wait for them to count up your payments, you're probably looking at most, what is that? Three, five, six months potentially, worst case scenario for you to actually see the loans get forgiven. So this is why I know this is such a big topic for folks and a big question because we get these questions in our inbox all the time about timing because it's just taking so long. But what's important to remember is the PSLF waiver expires October 31st. And that just means that you have to have done your action items by then. That doesn't mean that they have to process it by then. So we could still be waiting going into November for them to finalize your payment count or confirm PSLF. You're still gonna get it. You just have to take action by submitting that consolidation application or submitting the employment certification form. So that's a little bit about the timing that we wanted to touch on. There's a lot of time being passed and a lot of waiting being done by the borrowers. Some nerves on their end because it's big potential numbers for forgiveness. What are the actions that they should or shouldn't take during that time period? I know a lot of people have reached out to us saying like, hey, I submitted one in employment certification form four weeks ago. I did one more today because I haven't heard of it. What are you seeing out there? And what's an opportunity if you think you haven't been counted correctly or you're just waiting? Is patience the best answer or what tools or resources do people have? So good question, yes. And so a couple of things to maybe be on the lookout for. And I've also seen that folks are contacting the ombudsman group, which is there's a complaint form through studentaid.gov that you could submit complaints to if you feel like the loan servicer has not done their job. They haven't updated your payment count correctly or you've gotten a rejection for either qualifying payments or an employer. So I guess step one with that, if you have any problems or if you've been rejected, you've gotten a form rejected or you've gotten an employer rejected or qualifying payments marked as ineligible. If that's the case, start with either FedLoan if you're still with FedLoan or Mohela to try to resolve the issue to figure out how that happened. If it's something that has to do with the employment certification form, like maybe a signature wasn't accepted. So one thing to remember is make sure to do the employment certification form through the PSLF help tool. I'm definitely not saying that just to say that. It is proven over and over and over again that if you do the PSLF help tool, you have that form get generated, you print it, you get it signed and you send it back. It is faster for processing and I have not seen those get rejected at the rate that I see people who get rejected when they print out a blank form, fill in the information or type in the information. And I think it has something to do with formatting. I don't know. I've been telling folks that it kind of reminds me of if you remember like Scantrons back in the day, like bubbling in your answers. If you had an answer that was bubbled a little too far outside the line, it like kicked it out and then your teacher had to go and like manually grade it. I swear they're doing something like this with the employment certification forms because if they're done through the help tool, they're in that format, they get pushed through, no problem. But people who manually do them or physically fill them out or their employer physically fills them out, they're getting kicked back for reasons that don't seem to make sense. Like that the date is incorrect or you didn't list the correct date or something. I've been seeing some really dumb things. So that's distress. Just make sure to use the PSLF help tool. If your form got rejected, simply just get another one submitted as soon as you can. Do it through the PSLF help tool. Another thing to know is if, let's say you took that form to the employer, they lined through something because maybe your start date wasn't correct. That's probably going to get rejected. I haven't seen a lot of success with forms that have been altered after it's been printed from the employment or the PSLF help tool. So if that's the case, you probably need to get it redone. And I know this is frustrating. But what's on the table is important and it is going to be worth it. So we have to roll with the punches on this. But other things, so if there's more serious issues, like they've rejected the employer totally or they are clearly not counting a certain time period, communicate with the loan servicer. So either FedLoan, if you're still there, or Mohila. See if you can resolve it over the phone. If not, if there doesn't seem to be a resolution there, then you can submit a complaint through the FSA website. But they have also introduced the, it's called the reconsideration request form. So you can Google this or you could look it up on studentaid.gov. It's the reconsideration request form at studentaid.gov. And you can submit reasons for why you think they've made a mistake in determining if your employer was eligible or if your payments didn't qualify. And it will be reconsidered. But please note that studentaid.gov is recommending that you wait until the limited PSLF waiver period ends. So that's October 31st. And they announced that your income-driven account adjustments have been made to your borrower account before you submit a reconsideration request. Because the fact is, they are still reviewing and auditing accounts, including the IDR waiver that was announced back in April, which is potentially going to account for certain forbearances and deferments. So all that to say is, they're recommending that if you feel like there's a problem, you can't resolve it with the servicer, you've already submitted an employment certification form, they've rejected it or it hasn't fixed your problem, wait until October 31st or after October 31st and submit a reconsideration request. And make sure that you describe the errors that you believe were made in regards to your eligibility. And try to upload any documentation that can support your case. So upload a W-2, include tax forms or details from your employer, include payment statements or anything that you can include to help your case. So those are some things to do. That's a little bit about the timeline on like when to submit a complaint, when to consider the reconsideration request and help push along your progress. All right. So that's about timing. Hopefully that answers your question, Ben, about what folks can do if they're in this waiting period and they're just trying to get to the next, the other end of this. A couple like two other things that we've been noticing that I think is worth mentioning. One is that if you're completing the PSLF help tool, as you should be, it does ask if you think you've made 120 payments or not. And some folks who have had to consolidate or who have lots of forbearance history in the past may not be able to check yes to that question because it's just a computer. It's looking back at your payment history and it's not recognizing that you've been in repayment for 10 years. Don't let that panic you. It probably won't let you move on in some cases if you check yes. So go ahead and check no. That doesn't mean that they're not going to still look back at your payment history and confirm. But that's another thing just to know. Don't let that discourage you from doing the employment certification form. Continue on through. And you can even, you can manually check that yes button when you submit it. I think that one's okay to do when you print it off and sign it. But I thought that was worth mentioning. And then the last little tidbit was folks are definitely getting transferred from FedLoan to MoGila. And will that delay things? Probably. Because it's going to take some time for them to do that. What we have been seeing too is balances are temporarily dropping down to zero. And that's when it's kind of in the midst of that full transfer, it seems, when FedLoan's been closed out, your balance is in transition over to MoGila, but it's not gotten there yet. You might see your balance zeroed out at FedLoan, zeroed out on StudentAid.gov, and probably nothing at MoGila yet. That is a very temporary thing, maybe a week or two, if that. And that might also not allow you to do the PSLF help tool if StudentAid.gov doesn't see that you have a balance. So just give that some time, maybe about a week or two. It'll resolve itself. And if you confuse this for getting the loans forgiven, make sure, you will know if the loans have been forgiven because you'll get a formal letter that tells you that. So that's something to know. So don't get too excited quite yet. It might still be coming. It might be around the corner, but make sure it's not just because they're moving, you will get a formal notice about the loans actually being forgiven and you being totally done. It'll say something to the effect of, congratulations, you're done. So, wow, that was a lot. But did we miss anything, Ben, that you think we should cover today? No, I don't know when this is coming out, but we could make our bets whether in 13 days, student loan payments are starting. I've had an email, or probably six or seven emails just today asking me what's happening. And I have checked the news, including once during our recording here, still didn't see anything. So as of 12 minutes ago, everything's set to restart September 1st, end of August 31st. Yep, and if you're listening to this and they've already extended payments, you could laugh at this, that's fine. We know our answer, but hopefully we know by the time you're listening to this. Hopefully, limbo has been long. Yes, well, good. Well, I feel like this was a good rundown of just the most recent things in the news, some common things that we've been seeing in our Facebook groups. If you're not part of one of the Facebook groups and you would like to be, just search that on Facebook. PSLF eligible physicians is one, PSLF eligible teachers. It'll start with that PSLF eligible and then profession, if we have one for your profession specifically. It's also on one of the more recent newsletters that we sent out. So you go back to maybe, I think not last week, but the week before and you could join from there as well. There's a link. But this was fun and I'm glad I got to introduce you, Ben, to the team. We're very excited to have you. Any parting words? No, I'm very happy to be here. I'm thankful for you welcoming me for the whole student loan planner team and Travis who we're all thinking about this week. But all the listeners too, happy to have a voice on this platform, help more people, get their student loans taken care of, get their questions answered and be looking forward to meeting some of you in a one-on-one consult. Awesome. Well, thanks so much for joining us. Thanks you guys for listening in and we will catch you in the next podcast. Thanks everyone.