Inventory Increase | NAR and the NYT Exposé | Grateful for Real Estate | Toole Time 11.19.24

Good afternoon, greater Philadelphia area. This is Tool Time Real Estate Radio on WWDB 860 AM. And we have got a ton to talk about this week. We've got inventory rising and the beginning of prediction season. We're gonna talk about Lawrence Yoon here next, the chief economist for NAR. We've also got NAR. Just when you think it can't get any worse, they have lost all faith in the vast majority of the real estate community. And Sarah and I are gonna talk about things we are grateful for in the Thanksgiving spirit with real estate. So if you get some value out of this, you like what you hear, make sure to subscribe to the channel, hit the bell for notifications. And if you wanna schedule a call with our team, Sarah specifically to talk about your real estate needs and how to navigate the market, you can do that with the link in the comments. So I'm here with Sarah Tymon from our team. Sarah, what do you think about these predictions from Lawrence Yoon? How much did you read? I mean, you want me to go over them a little bit? Tell me a little bit more about your reaction here. So I did, I kind of like skimmed through, but yeah, if we wanna just kind of like go through. Sure, well, let me break them down again. So Lawrence Yoon and the NAR, and we're gonna get to NAR later. They dust this guy off like once a month. He gets paid like a high six figure salary for making 12 predictions a year. I'd like this job, NAR, if you're listening, maybe you can cut me in. I think Sarah and I would actually split it and we'd be okay. Yeah, I'd be cool with that. This guy, he just comes out of the foxhole. So he's got his 2025 home sales projection plus 9% year over year, and he's expecting 2026 home sales plus 13% year over year. Now, mind you, we're coming off of some of the lowest levels since 1995 when it comes to transactions. Do you think this is accurate? And again, this is a national number. I just wanna be clear on that. It's not like anything local. And this was for existing home sales? Yeah, so wherever we are now, they're gonna jump up 9% next year. I actually could see that. So tell us why, tell us more. You know, I think we've had a couple things that have kind of locked people in for the last couple of years. If we go back a little bit further, the actual lock-in effect of interest rates, and as years go by, and maybe you've made the home that you've got that incredibly low interest rate work for as long as you can, but eventually it's worth it to, either it's you need more space, you need less space, you need something changes. So there's that piece where as you get further away, it's dynamics change. And the election, certainly people were kind of holding tight to see how that goes. But yeah, I think the combination of those two things, and interest rates have been pretty steady. You know, we've had little ticks up and tick downs, but it's overall day-to-day, you're not like, oh my gosh, look at what just happened. And so that stability, I feel like just makes people ready to transact. I agree with everything you're saying there. And what we're seeing, just to give some perspective here on inventory, because the inventory has got to come up for sales to come up. So we've got 54 of the nation's 200 largest housing markets are now above pre-pandemic inventory. Last year was only 17 markets. So now we're, let's call it 25%. Now, and you know, when you look at these numbers from Lawrence June, I think you're gonna see bigger spikes in other areas and smaller spikes in some. So like in the Northeast, for example, like this is a national number. I can see it happening nationally. Home sales in the Northeast, and let's just get, I'll give you the Philadelphia Metro area numbers here in a second. But inventory has been much more depressed there than places like Florida and Texas. So it's really important to acknowledge that we're not seeing the same bumps in inventory that other states have seen. I think there is an appetite for this. You mentioned the election and what folks have right now is certainty. You know, whoever won or lost, like their lives are moving on and I'm clear that's gonna be a big part of this. So, and even these past couple of weeks, we were talking about before the show, it's felt a little different. Yeah. Can you speak to that a little bit? Yeah, I mean, people are like, from what I can see, like from an activity level amongst just clients of mine, like getting on the portal multiple times a day, searching, reaching out, past clients of mine referring me, friends and family members who are now ready to make a decision. So just from like looking at how often people are searching and how many properties they wanna go out and look at, that's like spiked up a bit. And it's been really great looking every day at new homes that have come to the market and being able to present clients with new great options. That's really important in this business, just because people hope, like it does a lot for their mindset. So in our market here in the greater Philadelphia area, now this is not just Pennsylvania, this is Philly, Philadelphia County, the four county collar counties around Philadelphia, Chester, Delaware, Montgomery, Bucks. We've got three counties in South Jersey and a couple in Delaware. Close sales are up two tenths of a percent this year. So they're pretty flat. Now we have seen inventory grow. It's up just about 11.6% year to date compared to this time last year through October. So this is what I'm talking about with the slower growth we're seeing in the Northeast. So I do see his prediction being right nationally. If I'm a client or a consumer, I'm looking at the local numbers. Like that's what you gotta be careful of here. Don't expect, you know, you gotta talk to a local agent here and get an understanding of what's going on, even in like your neighborhood or school district. So that's prediction number one. The second prediction that he's got, median home price projections, up 2% in 2025 and another 2% in 2026. What do you think about those? Yeah, I mean, that's actually, it's lower than what the, I mean, cause 5% is pretty standard for what you're expecting for, you know, each year for it to go up. So, you know, 2% is lower than that, but you know, if it were any less than 2%, I would say no way it's gonna get more than that. I wouldn't be surprised if it went, you know, a little bit higher than 2%. I agree, especially our market, right? Like if you're in Punta Gorda, Florida, like they've had a 72% increase in inventory, you'd be lucky to get 2%, right? Texas, Austin, Texas is another market like that. We're gonna go back to the inventory growth here in a second. Once we get through all these, because I wanna show those markets where they're seeing bigger numbers here. Year to date in the greater Philadelphia area, 8.7% on the median sold price. I would imagine we're gonna see closer to like four to 6% year over year in our marketplace. That number to me looks low, but again, we're in the Northeast, it's a different market. And you know, his reasoning behind that is the strong price increase cannot be sustainable for another five years or America will be divided. I mean, that's pretty extreme. And with only few getting to experience tremendous housing wealth, if we bring more supply to the housing market, home prices will increase, but not as outrageously and we'll be more in line with wages. I mean, if someone could solve the supply problem, that would, you know, they would- Right, but I know like what we've talked about before though is a majority, or at least around here, a majority of the new construction that we see is not, doesn't put you in that category of being able to get in an affordable price. Like we have a lot of luxury, new builds in this area. We also have, and then there's a pocket of, I feel like you see a decent amount of like 55 plus. But- And that unlocks a little bit of inventory, but it doesn't solve the problem of affordable housing. The average new construction sale price is between 800,000 and 1.2 million, depending on what county you're in. So, you know, and looking at our average sale price is like in the mid fours. Right. And then if you look at income, the median income is $87,000 a year. You take that 4X rule, I mean, you're at, you know, the numbers aren't gonna make sense. Right. So I do agree with you there. I would imagine we see higher numbers in the greater Philadelphia area for sure here. I feel like if I was gonna put a number on, I would say five would be the number that we would expect. And maybe that's a little low for some places. But again, this is national. And I could see that being the case nationally. Again, you look at these 54 out of 200 housing markets, and just to give you some perspective here, here's the markets where they've seen the biggest growth compared to the pre-pandemic numbers. And I think there's gonna be a trend here, right? Number one, Huntsville, Alabama. Lubbock, Texas is number three. Punta Gorda, Florida is number four. Colorado Springs is number six. Waco, Texas. Memphis, Tennessee, and Austin, they're the two largest markets in the top 10 on this list. Austin's 27, Memphis is 45, and they're 39 and 41% above pre-pandemic levels because they were overbuilt in a lot of cases. That's what we're seeing. Most of these markets, I go down this list, Texas, Florida, Colorado, Washington, Arizona, Louisiana, Oregon. I mean, you're not seeing, these are all, Sunbelt are out West, and they're areas that are developing versus you look at the places with the lowest inventory growth compared to pre-pandemic. Number one, my friend Byron Lazine works in this market. It's in Stamford and Hartford, Connecticut are number one and two. They've got the lowest inventory in the country right now. And then you've got places like Erie, Pennsylvania, Charleston. That's a little surprising. Connecticut's a weird place. I don't know. No, the Erie PA. I mean, I guess, no, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I've never been to Erie, have you? No. I know somebody that's from there, though. Okay, we're gonna have you do some recon and get back. But a lot of these are smaller cities is what I'm talking about. Like Binghamton, New York. I drove through there many times when I was in college. That was right on the way. Allentown, that's, I mean, it's a larger metro, but not really. The first real major metro to come out here is Chicago, Illinois. And that's down 57% from where it was five years ago. You go down further, then you get New York's down 46%. And then obviously Philadelphia, we're down 41%. So we're seeing that a lot of the, and a lot of these places, it's all like Northeastern markets. Lancaster PA made the list. Well, Lancaster's a pretty large market, all things considered. It's right about 109 it's ranked. So what we're seeing is the Northeast, this really demonstrates it. I mean, it's like New York, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Virginia. I mean, there's Illinois to a certain extent. And Chicago, Illinois is obviously, that's one of the few in the Midwest along with Ohio, but you get the point. So what we're seeing here with that that's gonna lead to wide swings on these prices based on where you are locally. So that was his prediction number two. It sounds like we're on the same page there. Prediction number three, mortgage rate forecast. So here's the quote from Lawrence Yoon. And to give some perspective, rates this year have ranged from 6.08 to 7.44%. What he said was mortgage rates in Trump's first term at 4% were the good old days. I agree with that. Are we going to go back to 4% per my forecast? Unfortunately, we will not. It's more likely that we'll go back to 6%. That will be the new normal bouncing around five and a half to six and a half percent. What do you think about that? Yep, I would agree. Yeah, they're not the factors that made the rates so low with Trump the last time around was not because of him, but because of the pandemic. So I do think that they will trickle down here, but we're not going back to those way lows. Yeah, and for how long it will take to do that. So they're saying the Q1 of next year. I mean, he's just saying all year they're gonna bounce between those. He's not really going out on a limb here. This is what everybody else is saying. And this is why I joked around how he gets paid all this money to make these predictions. So five and a half seems a little low to me. I don't know what you think. If we got to like six to six and a half, we should be high-fiving each other. Consumers should be excited. Historically, that's a very low rate. I just don't know that. We're gonna have to see really what jobs do and what the economy does, because the spread on the 30-year is still really wide between the 30-year and the 10-year, and that's been driving these rates. So I'd be ecstatic with five and a half. I just don't see it happening. Right, and what's unfortunate about sometimes throwing those numbers out there is then, and we always talk about not being able to time the market, but that's not something that's worth waiting for, because we can't predict if, how, and when it will get there. So yeah, I'd say if you can be like mid to low sixes, that's- Yeah, and I tend to agree. So I'm with you on that. And looking at these numbers here, I think if we hit six or like six and a quarter, we're doing really well. So that's gonna be really important. So here's the other, I mean, the other predictions that are out there. There were some other folks that have talked about this stuff. It's not anything different. I mean, this is what most people are saying, that you look at some of the different predictors that are out there. I mean, they have like the Mortgage Bankers Association. They're saying kind of the same thing. I mean, there's a lot of folks that are telling us this is where rates are gonna be, and this is kind of what's gonna happen this year. So I don't, we're gonna see more predictions. It's all gonna be the same. I think it's gonna be a more stable year. You talked about predictability. That goes a long way. So I'm feeling really good about that. And I think that's probably what's gonna happen here. And we'll do more in-depth projections here as we head into the new year. So for now, I do want to talk about what Logan Motoshami said, because he came out with an article a couple of days ago on his weekly housing market tracker that said mortgage rates dodged a bullet for now. And apparently last week, and if you don't follow this, you're not the only one, we were on the risk of breaking a key level in the bond market, which could have sent mortgage rates much higher. And there was a lot of economic, political, and Fed news. We had a whole week of it, really, that could have pushed rates up and despite all those negative headlines, we held the key level, which is basically keeping the 10-year treasury below that 4.5 number or 4.44. That's kind of his line that he puts on the chart here. And when you see, if you look back at what happened earlier in the year and when rates were a little higher, it broke above that 4.4 mark. So I think that's good news, that it seems like the spread is getting better. And hopefully that's gonna mean we're gonna see rates drop a little bit in 2025. Yeah, that'd be great. All right, we're gonna take a quick break. We are going to come back and we're gonna talk about this NAR news. This is, just when you think it can't get worse, Sarah, it gets worse. And it's very disappointing to be associated with an organization like this. And a lot of it is we don't really have a choice, which is a whole nother thing. So we'll be right back on Tool Time Real Estate Radio on WWDB 860 AM. For the best local mortgage service and great rates on your money, look no further than Mortgage America. We've been operating in the greater Philadelphia area for 40 years with a focus on smooth, easy access to home purchasing. Whether you're a first-time buyer, upsizing or downsizing, or just refinancing, we have programs for you. We also have closing cost assistance programs and access to subsidized interest rates. Pre-approval is free, no costs or commitments. To learn more, visit our website at mymortgageamerica.com or give us a call at 610-439-8000. We always have a person available to take your call with around-the-clock human service. 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Do you want control over your income? Whether you have a license or not, call us today at 610-692-6976 or visit tomtool.com. Join our team, the Tom Tool Sales Group at REMAX Mainline. Welcome back to Tool Time Real Estate Radio on WWDB 860 AM. I'm Tom Tool, she's Sarah Time, and we both work at the Tom Tool Sales Group at REMAX Mainline, the number one REMAX team in Pennsylvania since 2018. And we are gonna be talking about things we're grateful for in real estate at the end of the show here, but first, this is a shocking story, unfortunately, a not surprising story. So, and this is about NAR and a New York Times expose about some investigative reports. So, we're gonna jump into that in a second. If you get some value out of this, you'll like what you hear, make sure to subscribe to the channel, hit the bell for notifications, and if you wanna schedule a call with our team about how we can help you with your real estate needs and talk to Sarah specifically, you can do that with the link in the comments. So, the New York Times apparently is not done with their investigative reports of NAR. Last year, as a refresher, journalist Deborah Kamen exposed allegations of sexual harassment in a toxic work environment within NAR. And this was all when we had the DOJ investigation pending the Sitzer-Burnett settlement. Well, she came back with another article. It was released yesterday, and it dives into NAR spending habits. And this has been examined by my good friend, Byron Lazino over at BAM. Apparently, NAR is a nonprofit trade organization, just to be very clear. Well, it looks like Bob Goldberg made some profits. So, the latest documents from the 2022 reveal significant salaries along with tens of millions of dollars going to independent contractors. This reporter spoke to 18 former officers and current employees of NAR. And as people wonder, like, what are they paying for? So, I just had to pay my NAR dues. Like, the early cycle was like 568 bucks. I think it's like 700 if you wait. So, I'm just gonna tell you what was in the report. I wanna get your reaction to this. I already heard your reaction, but we're gonna do it again. So, Bob Goldberg, CEO of NAR, he got a, not only gained a substantially higher salary, but lavish comp package, membership fees for private clubs in Chicago and Washington, as well as a country cup of his choice, including an initiation fee of 75 grand, first-class airfare tickets for him and his wife, a monthly car allowance of $1,500, $2,250 a month to cover utilities and insurance at his Pieta Terre in Chicago, paid pet sitting for when he was away from his home on business, and that came on top of his $1.2 million salary, which doubled to 2.6 million in five years. That's crazy. What did this guy do? I mean, like, I don't, I know what he did. He got us involved in a multi-billion dollar lawsuit that they lost because of a poor defense package and apparently condoned sexual harassment at an organization he's supposed to be running. Right. What's your reaction to this, just seeing this for the, you're seeing this for the first time, like right now. Yeah, I mean, that's crazy. You already have a astronomical salary, which you've, from like, obviously, you haven't done anything, you know, so you're getting paid that, and then all of those perks on top of it, which, does all of their money come from agents? Yes. So that's, yeah, so you take our money and then you don't do anything for us, but you get all of these, all of these perks on top of a huge salary. That's, that's insane. Apparently, yeah. So here was, here was what the reporter uncovered. They talked to an NAR spokesperson, Mantel Williams, and he said that they, the leadership raised their hands to serve the industry in positions that require a substantial time commitment, personal sacrifice, and significant travel. He also explained the money, annual payment, and other compensation was to reimburse leaders for travel expenses and administrative stipends to offset the income they weren't able to earn as realtors while performing their leadership duties. I would guarantee you Bob Goldberg is doing nothing even close to having a business that's gonna yield him seven figures in profit. I mean, I would love to see what his sales track record is, because I know what it takes to make that, I mean, this is all I do. I look at these numbers all the time, right? We're gonna- I mean, if they're gonna reimburse him for not having time out being an agent, one, they should look back at how much he made as an agent, like one, or they should give him the average of what a realtor makes. Yeah. Right? He can make like under $40,000, because that's the average. Take all of, yeah, just like take all of the agents that are like listed as- Well, that is the average, yeah. It's like 38,000. Yeah, that's what you get. I'm wondering if we can find his sales track record here. I bet you can. I mean, and so that's just, that's one thing, right? So- And also like you took a different job. Nobody forced you to take this job. Yep. Like he probably applied for it. Yep. I agree with you. So, and let's, I'm gonna look this up here. So then there was some nonprofit experts that examined this, and they said, shockingly, NAR's spending habits raise concerns, and their financial habits push the boundaries of acceptable behavior for a tax-exempt entity. The six-figure payments to leaders, referred as volunteers, are particularly controversial. A nonprofit lawyer based in D.C. described it as highly unusual, and I would even say virtually unheard of, for volunteer leaders and officers to receive compensation at those levels. Beyond the excessive compensation, spending on personal benefits like first-class air for spouses and stipends for luxury retreats could pose legal risks. And there was another attorney down in Orlando emphasized that if an organization is engaging in this kind of behavior, and individuals are benefiting themselves beyond what's considered reasonable, there would be grounds to lose their tax exemption. I mean, you know, I've flown first class once, and it was because someone flew me somewhere. And like, I mean, you know, and I do a fair amount of travel, not even that much anymore. So, I mean, this goes on and on, right? And, you know, to answer your question, NAR's memberships contribute to 87% of NAR's revenue. So it's a vast majority. And there's a big disconnect between leadership and the average realtor paying dues to three different associations to access the MLS, which I think is the reason. Do you, are you a member of NAR for any other reason than MLS access legitimately? Yeah, I'm right there with you. I mean, the dispute resolution helps. The local boards, you know, that's fine. It's just this national entity. It's incredible to me, this is what's happening. And there's also three antitrust lawsuits filed against NAR for its anti-competitive behavior, including the latest aimed directly at NAR's three-way agreement. Unfortunately, the person who filed the suit, this agent there in California, they're representing themselves instead of hiring an attorney, which I don't think that's a recipe. Like the guy's going FISBO in his own lawsuit, which I don't know is a great move. So, and the NAR's continued defense of this policy is more like a blanket dismissal of the disenfranchisement of a growing number of dues-paying members and the way people are feeling right now. So you started saying this is crazy when you were reading this. So just give us your reaction here, Sarah, because I think this is, I'm not surprised by this. I probably follow this a lot more than you do. So what do you think? As someone that's been a member for a good amount of time, you've beat the 87% failure rate, what do you think about this? I mean, like just a lot of this is insane. The perks, like that level of perks is ridiculous. The fact that you're getting paid this much and then also being given additional to make up for the fact that you aren't able to like sell homes. Well, that's not your job right now. Like you need to do what your job is right now and that's what you're getting paid for. This part here about people staying on the payroll well after their departure, you know, the one CEO getting 250,000 a year as a former consultant, not even a current consultant, just you consulted in the past, like is what you consulted on even relevant to today? Like who knows? And yeah, like, and that's where our money's going. Like that's ridiculous. It's incredible. And you know, when they were asked at the time whether NAR was continuing to pay this Dale Stinton as a consultant and whether Goldberg would have a similar deal, NAR declined to comment saying its employee contracts are confidential. So you've got this huge uproar here and really it's very clear what's happening now. And you know, it's one thing after another. I mean, private club memberships, I mean, what benefit does that have, right? Flying first class, having a dog sitter, like you've got to be kidding me. And even having a car, like, I mean, that's basically as a company car and all this comp. And so, you know, when you look at this and you see an organization like this, I think there's two conclusions people are drawing right now. One is it's broken and it's never going to be fixed or two is how to change it. So what's your reaction to NAR after this latest expose? I mean, I would like to say, shut it down. But I mean, I guess until we have, cause I'm not even fully, like, do they do anything besides like that we need this? They do lobbying, like that's the big thing. Like their core value, I had the opportunity to interview Jack Miller, the CEO of T360. They're like a real estate research firm. And what we talked about was NAR was founded to lobby for real estate agents. They haven't done a very good job in the legal arena the past 12 months to say the least, probably longer than that, but that was their main thing. Like, so you go and solicit a neighborhood, you want to go doorknock, right? You can get a permit or sometimes you don't even need one depending on what township you're in. Like that's your lobbying in effect here because normally that's not allowed for other folks. Is there a list out there of what all they lobbied for or attempted to lobby in, you know? Let's find out. And then what they were successful on. All right, so I got something here. It's amazing what you, so what, 25 years of NAR lobbying visualized, and let's see what they say here. Housing, taxes, finance, insurance. So I mean, there's a lot of things there. I mean, it's, you know, you talk about like keeping property taxes down, or I mean, I wouldn't know enough details to go into this. They do have a list of legislative priorities from 2023, more homes on the Market Act, Neighborhood Homes Investment Act, Choice in Affordable Housing Act, Safe Banking Act, Fair and Equal Housing, Credit Access and Inclusion, Prioritize Housing Production, Increase Inventory, Increase Funding for Fair Housing Improvements. I mean, this is stuff that would help for sure. And that's what they've done in the past. But I get, you know, the point is that you've got this association, and really they're forcing people to join because of the MLS. Like I'd love our MLS to say, hey, you don't need to be a member of NAR anymore. I don't think bright MLS will ever do that. They're too big, they're too powerful. It's not gonna happen. So I, you know, it's, lobbying makes sense. I get all that. They didn't do a great job with these lawsuits. I think they really dropped the ball on that, and they didn't explain them properly. Like how do you not have the real estate agents who handled these cases testify, right? Like go over their file, right? It's no different when the real estate commission comes into the office. So, you know, there's, shutting it down I think is easier said than done. I think there's a lot tied up with that. The flip side is how do you get involved, right? Because what I'm clear on is the people that get involved in these things, I mean, they're often not the most productive agents. I mean, I'm just gonna call it what it is. And I think there's, I've done this. We talked about this on the show, where it's like, oh, the association's over here. I'm just gonna focus on selling houses, right? Which is probably a good business practice anyway. So this whole conversation in the interview with Jack Miller spurred me to reach out to some people and say, hey, like how do we get involved? So I emailed our local association. Heard nothing back from them yet. I did talk to someone that's on the board. I'm not gonna give you this person's name. Here is the response I got. I'll send you a list, but quickly it would include things like being on committees, task force, dispute, resolution, and obviously the board. Many of those positions are filled by people who start going to the leadership academy that's offered once a year or identified as persons of interest. So what does that tell you when you hear that's how they're selecting folks? Because it was not easy navigating their website, finding out who to talk to. Well, I guess the first thing it makes me think is that the leadership training thing that they're offering, if they're picking it from there, they're probably pushing their point on the people that I'm sure also had to pay to go there. And kind of, I don't wanna say like training them to then like if they do get like selected to have some control and make some decisions that it would be what they trained them to do. But that kind of is my first thought that they're telling everybody how to think and then picking from those who they told how to think. Well, and that's exactly how I read it. It tells me you gotta be part of their club, right? You gotta comply. And like, when it comes to like persons of interest, like what does that even mean, right? And I mean, you know, it's interesting to, you know, there is a time commitment here and I'm very cognizant of that because I've also got an obligation to folks like you and like our team and people that we're working with on a regular basis. So I don't wanna dismiss that. But at the same time, you would imagine that you would want people involved that are active folks in terms of business that are selling a lot of houses. And I think that's disconnect, right? So, you know, then, I mean, the fact that you can't get in touch with these people and you're not getting answers here and you gotta go through a leadership academy. So I went and saw what the leadership academy, I mean, you wanna see what the leadership academy entails? Yes. Because I think this is interesting as well. So when you get to the, where is this here? I had this all pulled up. It was like the five, like how to like conflict resolution. It was all stuff that I've read. Like I didn't need to go through it. Here it is. Five dysfunctions of working with others. Emotional intelligence and leadership effectiveness. The importance of diversity and inclusion. Effective negotiating skills in today's ever-changing real estate landscape. No panic presentation skills. So I don't, you know me well enough to, do you think I am competent enough in any of those? Like I've done, I've been doing, and I'm not saying, this is not about how great I am. It's just, all right, I don't need to go through some class to learn these things because I've done them. And I think that's the challenge here. And I don't know there's a better solution besides getting involved. I think that you can either ignore it and then you have no room to complain, right? So I don't know what the answer is here. What I am clear on is that I hope enough people get, there's enough pressure on, like, you know, one person, it's gonna take a group of people. I mean, I've heard like, remember Mauricio, you may ask your member, he talked about having like a separate association. I mean, that, maybe that works. I don't know. But that's a lot of work to, you know, instead of, I'd like to see like a hostile takeover of NAR. I think that would be like the best way. Like, let's get all new people in there. It's clean house. But that's gonna have to come from the members. I mean, like where NAR members can approve some of the spending and the budget. Like that's our money, you know? So for, you know, all of these different perks and, you know, keeping people on payroll years after they no longer hold the position. Like, I think that should be something that we vote on. And that doesn't mean that like what we pay will be less. Like, no, I'm not gonna vote for any of that. And I wanna like keep, like cut my annual bill down, but like you should have a say in what bucket things fall into and maybe have a max allowance for, you know, some of this additional free spending that's clearly going on. Yeah, well, and you gotta have controls, right? That's all it is. I wonder if they do the pay now and get like a discount to that they have money to give people for like Christmas bonuses. Get it in now. Oh my God, that's too funny. So yeah, interesting. That's hysterical. I didn't realize some of the places where money was going. Well, and I think, you know, and that's, you know, like I haven't looked at this either until now. And I think that's where the, you know, the members gotta take some responsibility here too. It's not just complaining about it, it's what are you gonna do about it? And that's, you know, it's no different than when someone brings a problem to you and it's like, all right, what's the solution? And I mean, you know, the fact that there's ways to, you know, reach out and actually like get involved, that's great. I wish it was a little more open to the public, right? And because a lot of these committees, like I think about the issues, right? And this is with the local association, like things that I'm clear could be immediately fixed. The ability to write a contract and agreement of sale. Like, why is that not something that's taught regularly? Like we push it really hard. Did you ever learn anything like that when you got your license? They were just like, good luck. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, and these are legal contracts, right? So you can get yourself in a lot of trouble if you're not doing that. The other thing was professional standards. I mean, I feel like that's something that's just missing in this industry entirely. What's your observation with professional standards in real estate? I mean, I feel as though a lot of it should be common sense, right? But at no point do they ever really go over it. But I would say most agents that I interact with, there is a level of professionalism there, but not every time. Well, and I agree with you. I mean, you get folks that they don't know how to communicate properly. They don't know how to just get all the documents ready. I mean, I think these are all kind of the same thing. How to just, I mean, and this is any industry, right? You get accountants and attorneys and doctors, all sorts of stuff. They don't get professionalism, but having a higher standard and maybe like, imagine if they offered some classes on this stuff. Like I think that would actually be really valuable to a lot of folks. They don't focus on that stuff. They talk about things like getting your luxury designation or these other items that I don't think really help a lot of people with their business. I mean, we had some new agents come on and they were talking about taking some classes at the board and we're like, don't do it. It's a waste of your time. Because the only thing they're good for is getting your CE credits. That's about it. So that's how people look at the board right now. And I don't think it's much different. So I just don't know what else you can do unless you're going to really, you know, I mean, NAR is not going to listen to you, right? I think there's maybe an option to get involved on these local and state levels, but there's got to be a movement of some kind and it's someone that's willing to commit the time to do it. And I think, I mean, Mauricio Umansky, so back in January, they talked about founding this, what they call the, because they're not happy with the pocket listing ban. So him and his partner, they founded the PLS.com. It's a national home listing site. Now they're talking about the creation of the American Real Estate Association. I don't know what's happened with this since then. There haven't been a lot of news about it. And I don't know if he's the right person to do it either, since he's like on Dancing with the Stars and reality TV. But, and this is, no, I just, you want someone that's going to be totally professional there. They do have a website. I'm on here now. I mean, I just don't know how active it is. I mean, it's like, choose your membership, $20 a year or be a founding member for 10 years at 1500. I mean, I don't know what you get out of this. Like, you know, more ways to get money, I guess. I don't know. So it's going to be interesting. We'll see what happens here. I can't imagine that they do much better, but I mean, if you want to make a change, I would start calling your local board. I think that's probably the best way to go here. So why don't we take a quick break? We're going to come back and talk about what we are grateful for in real estate next on Tool Time Real Estate Radio on WWDB 860 AM. You shouldn't have to deal with all the red tape when getting your mortgage from a big or online bank. At Mortgage America, we have access to big bank money, but with the personalized and detailed service of a local bank. We are here in your community and ready to serve with fast settlements, low down payment options, and first time home buyer programs. Pre-approval is free, no costs or commitments. For more information, visit our website at mymortgageamerica.com or give us a call at 610-439-8000. The Tom Tool Sales Group is the number one Remax team in Pennsylvania with over 165 million in volume for 2021. I'm Tom Tool and our team has achieved that kind of success by being a great place to work with and to work for. No one knows greater Philly better than we do. We know real estate, but more importantly, we're real people. We hire the best agents and we give them all the tools to succeed. Even our brand new agents sell 17 to 24 homes a year because our team delivers the best experience in real estate. Teams deliver a better experience than individuals and we're a top 1% real estate team in the country. We call it AAA service. We're your advocate, ally, and advisor because this isn't a transaction to us, it's a relationship. If you're buying or selling a home, call the Tom Tool Sales Group at Remax Main Line at 610-692-6976 or visit TomTool.com. That's TomToolWithAnE.com. Sell your home for more and remember the real estate golden rule. You always get more when you work with Tom Tool. Have you considered a career in real estate? Do you want control over your income? Whether you have a license or not, call us today at 610-692-6976 or visit TomTool.com. Join our team, the Tom Tool Sales Group at Remax Main Line. When you're getting a mortgage, you shouldn't have to sacrifice great service just to get a great rate. At Mortgage America, we've been lending with this philosophy for over 35 years. We have access to great low rates without the complications and delays of big or online banks. We're a local Pennsylvania lender with loan officers that you can actually meet. As PHFA's number one lender, we specialize in all residential mortgage programs, including first-time buyer programs and low-down payment options. For your free pre-approval, call us at 610-439-8000 or apply online at MyMortgageAmerica.com. All right, all right. Welcome back to Tool Time Real Estate Radio on WWDB 860 AM. I'm Tom Tool, she's Sarah Tymon. We both work at the Tom Tool Sales Group at Remax Main Line, the number one Remax team in Pennsylvania since 2018. And we are talking about the things agents should be grateful for in real estate in the Thanksgiving spirit. Next week, we got our critically acclaimed turkeys of the year segment, which I'm looking forward to. To get some value out of this, you'll like what you hear, make sure to subscribe to the channel, hit the bell for notifications. And if you wanna schedule a call with our team and Sarah specifically, you can do that with the link in the comments. So why don't we go like one for one here, Sarah? So things agents should be grateful for in real estate. And I wanna talk about this because agents love to like complain all the time. And we had a meeting today and it was a little bit of that. And I just said, I think I said like end the bitch session. I don't know if I can say that on the radio, but I just did. And so I'm with you on that. So what's your number one thing? Let's just run down the list here. I think my number one would be chat GPT. So tell us more about that. Great answer. Yeah, so it's just so helpful when you're trying to put together information or whether it's an email or you're putting together like documents, just like anything to kind of take the point that you're trying to make and just really sharpen it up and make it sound professional without having to spend nearly as much time like rereading through it, like thinking about how else something should be worded. It's been a time saver. I love that answer because the agents that don't embrace that kind of technology, they're gonna be sitting there writing those emails for hours. I mean, you ever get an email and you're like, how long did it take someone to type that up? Oh yeah. And I'm like, man, I wouldn't even read it, right? And so I love that. And you can ask it to do things like, hey, use this tone. Say it like I would write an email, right? And if you use it enough, it's actually gonna adapt to your tone and your style. So I love that answer. And even for like what subject line to put for an email to make somebody open it, you know? Like, it's great. It's a time saver. It's an efficiency hack. I mean, you're not gonna replace the person, but you can work much more quickly and efficiently, like you said. So great answer. I'm also going to go down the technology path for my number one, electronic signature software. So you probably don't even know what this is like. I'm still younger than the average agent. I remember the first time I used DocuSign. It was like a Sunday night, trying to close a sale. They're like, oh, there might be some other interests, but we're gonna go with you. And I said, and the agent on the other end said, oh, we use DocuSign. And I just got the account and we had just activated it. I send it and I got it back in like three minutes. And this thing was executed within 20. And it was just a couple initial changes. And I said, wow, this is unbelievable versus meeting people at the office, like seven o'clock at night. I've dropped like printed out packages of paperwork where it's like highlighted, like initial here, sign here. You ever use a fax machine? Yes. You're the ones where they had the, not the regular paper, but like the carbon paper that would like curl up. Yeah, no. So it's like, I mean, you couldn't, I can't tell you how exciting this is to have electronic signature software that actually works because it literally changed my life as a real estate agent. It's getting all this time back. Like you can do it in your home office rather than, oh, let me drive out to the office or we got to wait until tomorrow and then another offer comes in or something like that. Yeah, like a lot can happen. Like you want, if there's something that is like, you need that last signature or you need something to get it executed. Like you don't, you can't like relax until it's done because anything can happen until it's like completely buttoned up or even just sticking within like timeframes and deadlines for like responses and when they need to be in. Yeah, that's, I'm glad I never had to operate in a time without the electronic signatures. I mean, it was brutal. So, and it just, I mean, like you said, like you can lose a deal. I mean, there's things that, or you miss an initial, right? You don't have an executed contract. Now you got to go back and get it. Like it can cause a lot of problems. So that's something that I constantly think about. So what's something else you're grateful for when it comes to real estate? So I think still like having the option to do video calls, but not having to have that be the only way that you can like communicate and meet with and talk to people just because, you know, everybody's schedules can be different and be kind of crazy. So I know I had a video call last night at like 6 p.m. It was great. We were all able to, you know, kind of go over everything and answer questions. It just, it feels different than just being on a call. You can actually see people's reactions, see what people are thinking, but not having to drive out there when like you really don't need to be at a different location. So I love still having that as a viable option, but obviously being able to still meet people in person. Well, and you know, there is value meeting people in person. I mean, I think having the option to do business more efficiently is great. And the people that embrace technology, I mean, everything we're talking about is technology-based right now. They're gonna be able to, you're gonna increase your bandwidth with what you're doing. And there is something to meeting someone in person when you really need to and close some business. So I love that answer. The next one for me, Google Maps, GPS, Apple Maps, right? Because another, do you ever have to use the map book? Probably not, right? So I feel like I'm like 90 years old here. So the map book was, they would have like these very detailed maps of like every road around here. And it would say what grid it's on, like what page and what grid, where the house is located. So I'd go through and highlight these places. And there's some of these neighborhoods. I mean, I've been in them, right? I live down the street. You never know where some of these neighborhoods are because you just don't go back to those areas. And I would have these things printed out. I kind of map my route out. Wouldn't have any idea on the arrival time, by the way. Like traffic was just a total crapshoot. And- Were cell phones in play at this point? Cell phones were, but they didn't have the same kind of, like, I mean, this is like 2000 and like five. So, I mean, it was like analog, like text. Like, I mean, I had those things, but you could tell people you're running late, but you really don't know if you're running late. Like it doesn't, there's no exact time. So the ability to understand that, also I think just the technology in cars now where you can see it on the screen and, or it's, it was rough. And then trying to figure out like where the house is and like looking at the numbers, if it's dark out or something, like I'm telling you, like this has been something, agents, if you never had to do that, I'm happy for you. I think that- Because it was very challenging. I don't think I would have been able to do the job if I had to do it. My sense of direction isn't great. My, like, I feel like, and then like, if you get lost, you can't just like get rerouted. Yeah, well, yeah. Recalculating, right? Yeah, or if there's like a road closure, I'd be screwed. Yeah, and that would happen to me. I mean, this is all stuff that's happened and, you know, or you get into like a car accident or a flat tire. I mean, all these things that go on. So Google Maps and GPS, very grateful for those. What else you got here, Sarah? I think the next one that I've got really isn't a technology related one, but just like having good relationships with lenders, other just like resources and team members. So that if you, you know, if something comes up and you need somebody to help your client out, or if, you know, things get hairy in a transaction, just having like people to go to and being able to rely on them, count on them and know that they will do a good job is awesome. Well, you know, it's funny you say that because teams in real estate were really not a thing like 20 years ago. And the fact that you have a lot of resources to understand stuff and be able to bounce ideas off of people, you know, teamwork in real estate used to mean like competing with someone else. Like it was not usually a thing. So having an actual team, I love that. And I love also like relationships matter, right? I think we're all, we're in a relationship business no matter what anyone says. So I think that's a really great observation because all this tech stuff, like that's great. If you work with a bunch of bad people you don't like, you're probably not feeling too good about what you're doing. Yeah. Very cool. All right, so the last one I got here, actually I got a bunch more, but we'll go, we can kind of wrap up. I'm gonna go with virtual tours and professional photography. How much better of a feeling can you get for a house when the photos are right, when the video's there for consumers? I think it actually helps buyers vet out a lot of properties where instead of maybe getting one photo or no photos, right? I did that too. You get like six photos, like a grainy digital camera. Yeah, yeah. No, that is, that's absolutely true. Cause nobody wants to waste their time going to something that is not going to be the right fit, right? And yeah, when you see a listing where it has a ton of photos professionally, professionally done, the lighting's good, you actually get a feel for the layout, it makes you excited to go in there. Or if there's something about the home that ultimately would be a no, you can see that and you're not wasting anybody's time. I know sometimes something that will come up would be people who want, you know how oftentimes there'll be like a step down into the family room? Yeah, for sure. And I've had clients who before were like, we do not want that. And when you're going through the photos, if there's enough and if they're well done, you can identify that and then be able to relay that and then decide whether or not to go. So I feel like it gives you a lot of additional information that just like the description isn't necessarily going to. Love that. So a lot of good stuff happening in real estate. Hopefully you got some value out of this. That's all we got this week. We're back next week. We got turkeys of the year happening. Tune in for that. We're going to keep following this NAR story as well and keep you updated on the market. If you want to follow Sarah, she's at Ty underscore Ty time. You can follow me at TomTool3rd, both on Instagram. And if you got some value out of this, make sure to subscribe to the channel, hit the bell for notifications. And if you want to schedule a call with our team, you can do that with the link in the comments. We'll see you next week on Tool Time Real Estate Radio on WWDB 860 AM.