Ben Shapiro interviews Gov. Kristi Noem

Joining us on the line is Governor Kristi Noem, lifelong farmer, rancher, 33rd governor of South Dakota, first female governor. Governor Noem, thanks so much for joining the show, really appreciate it. Absolutely, Ben. Thanks for inviting me on. So let's talk a little bit about your COVID strategy in South Dakota, which of course has been highly controversial according to the media. Every death is on your hands. Everything that has happened in South Dakota is your fault. The economic record in South Dakota continues to be sterling, however. So how did you make the strategy for South Dakota? And what did that strategy actually look like? You know, I think, Ben, I did what every other governor in this country did. I looked at the science behind the virus and the data. And then I looked at the facts on the ground of what we were dealing with here in our state. But I maybe then at that point took it a step further. I talked to my general counsel, I consulted with constitutional attorneys. I really wanted to understand what my job was as a governor, what authority I had, and then also what authority I did not have. And stay within those bounds. I've just been a firm believer that when you have a leader overstep their authority in a time of crisis, that's really when you break this country. So, you know, we made decisions to trust people. I told my folks here in South Dakota that I would give them all the information that I have, I'd be palms up with them, and that I was gonna let them use personal responsibility to make the best decisions for them and their families. So I think people overwhelmingly did that, and it worked well for them. They were able to keep their businesses open, take some public health measures, but also feed their families and take care of their employees and get through this pandemic in a better way than many other states. Now, it's been fascinating to watch as the media reduced the COVID policy calculation down to one factor, one factor only. And that is the death per million ratio. When in reality, obviously there are a lot of other factors at play. Things like how many people lose their livelihoods, how many people lose their small businesses, how many kids can go to school, what level of freedom you're willing to give up in order to achieve a better ratio, and also whether any of those policies are even effective. When people talk about the way that the pandemic played out in South Dakota, they seem to ignore the fact that South Dakota is not number one in the nation in terms of death per million. In fact, South Dakota is not in the top five in the nation, but New Jersey and New York are both one and two. Yeah, it's interesting because they point consistently to me being reckless or irresponsible, yet my numbers are better than many other states that had all kinds of mandates, that shut down businesses, that made people stay home, that mandated masks, and we did not do those things. And I would say that we can't find consistency in those mitigation measures. I think that what happened here in South Dakota is that we allowed them to exercise their personal freedom, gave them all the information they needed to protect their health. But economically, our state's doing good. Our discussion during legislative session right now is, how are we going to spend all of the extra revenue this year that we didn't anticipate having? And that's because we had record sales tax numbers come in. I think everybody who wanted a little bit of freedom this year took their vacations in South Dakota. We're moving businesses here in overwhelming numbers. We've got families that are moving in because they can have their kids in school, they can have some personal choices still left to them that the government isn't making for them. So it's been remarkable to really see the impact a small state like South Dakota can have on people and their belief systems. Well, the outside hatred of the media is good proof that you're doing some things right. South Dakota currently does have the lowest unemployment rate of any state in the country. According to the BLS, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, December 2020, you have a 3.3% unemployment rate, as opposed to, say, New York, which has an 8.7% unemployment rate, or California, which has a 9.3% unemployment rate. So, Governor Noem, have you dealt with the disparate treatment of your governorship, as opposed to the governorship of people like Andrew Cuomo in New York or Gavin Newsom in California, who have had some pretty egregious suffering in their state and have decided to lock everybody down, apparently, until the end of time? You know, it's been interesting because people talk a lot about my national profile or why people know who I am today, because really, a year ago, nobody really knew who Kristi Noem was or even paid attention to our state. And I tell them all the time, the only reason that you've heard my name now is because the liberals came after me. They started attacking me for all the decisions that I was making. Elizabeth Warren went on national TV and ripped me apart and called me irresponsible, and Rachel Maddow came after me repeatedly on her show over and over again. So, it has been interesting to watch them hold up governors such as Cuomo as the example and their hero in dealing with the virus, and now we really find out what he did that was so horrible in his state and to see the duplicity in how the media treats people. Listen, I've never before realized, I don't think, until 2020 how the media will use fear to control people, and that was shocking to me how far they would go, and it educated me a lot as to their tactics, and I think it's going to take some of us states standing up and pushing back on their lies and their agenda that they're pushing and even the Democrats and the liberals on how they're trying to change this country through this virus. Governor Noem being the leader of a state, and we spoke with Governor Ron DeSantis of Florida yesterday, it seems like for conservatives, for a lot of moderate Americans, it seems like the hope for freedom lies in the states, not in the federal government. What we're watching right now on a broad variety of levels is states that are having to step in and protect the freedom of their citizens from a predatory national government that seems to want to control everything. We see this in everything from the social sphere down to the economic sphere, and one of the things that you've been doing in your state is seeking to protect the unborn, particularly the unborn who have Down Syndrome, because what we have seen is a sort of eugenic approach to abortion in which a lot of folks across the country have decided that not only is it okay, it's laudable for women to abort children with Down Syndrome, which effectively is eugenics. You've been pushing a different policy in South Dakota. Yeah, absolutely. So we have a bill that just passed through the legislature here this week that I will be signing into law that will prevent a doctor from performing an abortion on a baby upon a diagnosis of Down Syndrome. So we will not be targeting babies in South Dakota just because they have an extra chromosome. There is a diagnostic test that's available to women at 10 weeks and another one at 15 weeks that would tell them if their baby is Down Syndrome or not. And what we're doing here is protecting that baby to make sure that it is not eliminated, killed, or aborted because of that diagnosis. So I think it's incredible that we send a message that every life is special, every life is cherished, that eugenics is not something that will be accepted here in our state. And that hopefully, we can carry that message to other states as well, that the science is on our side, that we understand more and more every single day about what happens in the womb and that person that needs to be protected through life and through birth. And that we will continue to do that and change the narrative that's going on in this country. So Governor, speaking of the way the federal government has been getting involved in so many of these issues, I know that the Democrats are pushing forward this $1.9 trillion COVID relief program. It includes $350 billion that are directed toward cities and states and bailing out particularly areas of the country that have had endemically bad governance. We now have information suggesting that states like California didn't actually lose tax revenue last year. California actually ended up basically where it was in tax revenue because of the original stimulus bills that were passed by and signed into law by President Trump and the Republican Party. It doesn't matter, they're pushing forward this sort of redistributionist plan. How does a state like South Dakota approach something like that? It's frustrating because I feel as though we did the best we could to protect people's health as well as the economy and their jobs. We were the state that lost the least amount of businesses because of this virus. We lost the least amount of employee hours, least amount of employee wages. We really were a testimony to our conservative principles and protection of freedoms really does work. It opens up opportunities for folks. And now we have the federal government coming out and rewarding those bad actors that made all the wrong decisions. So it's incredibly frustrating. I've told the federal government for months now, even back into 2020, don't send us any more money. Just give us flexibility in what you've already given us and let us use it in the best way to make sure that we're doing things correctly to set people up for success a decade, two decades into the future. That's why people will see me not just focusing on bailing out or increasing unemployment benefits, things like that. But it's investing in workforce training, getting people into better jobs, making sure that we're getting high speed internet access to every home in the entire state of South Dakota. That's the kind of investments that we should be making rather than bailing out bad states that close down their economies and now we're gonna get rewarded for it. So Governor Nuhm, you spoke at the Conservative Political Action Conference last week, obviously one of the big ballyhooed speeches at the convention. Many people in the media have basically declared that the Republican Party is in a state of complete fracture because of President Trump and because he is such a polarizing figure for a lot of folks. I'm not really seeing the fracture, to be completely honest with you. It feels as though many of the people who love President Trump and love him for a variety of reasons really are unified by one significant fear. And that is a unified left that is seeking to change all the fundamentals about the country. And many people on the right see Trump as sort of an avatar of the resistance to that, as the guy who's caught a lot of slings and arrows for fighting that. But the broader mission, which is to fight an overwhelming left change in the country, that's not relegated to President Trump. And I think you made that clear in your speech. I did, I talked about why America needs conservatives. And it's a belief system that this country was founded on, that we believe and that we want to protect. Because it really is what has given us the opportunity to be successful and the most exceptional nation in the world for hundreds of years. The left has gotten extremely far out there. I tell people all the time that I knew I served with extremists when I was in Congress. What's changed the last couple of years is they're so proud of it. They're so boldly declaring their embracement of socialism and communist principles and values, that that is a dramatic shift that we've seen in the last few years. And that's why Republicans are united around the conservative message and will continue to defend our history, our leaders that led us through challenging times. They had flaws, but they also did incredible things for us and our children and grandchildren, and that we need to continue to talk about the value that that applies to today's culture and our government as well. There's a very specific reason that our founders gave the federal government very limited powers. They wanted the vast majority of the power to remain with the states and with the people. And we're going to have to continue to educate folks on why that is important, and then show to them that it really does work and create a better situation for their families. That's what we did here in South Dakota. We've talked for years in this state about our conservative values. We put them into place this year, and we're showing that it really does work, and it really is the best path to success. Governor Kristi Noem of South Dakota, really appreciate your time and your leadership. Thanks so much for joining the show. Thank you, Ben. You have a wonderful day.