Hollywood Star Patricia Heaton Stays True to Her Values | Real Talk

Everybody watched, everybody loves Raymond. Today, there's less and less of those shows that bring us all together. Right. We absolutely shared that. It was just like a wonderful thing that brought us together. Most had nothing to do with politics. Your path, it is so different from what I noticed in Hollywood. You're a lifelong Catholic. How did your faith impact your career? I went to the showrunner and I said, I just need to tell you I'm pro-life. One person said that was the bravest thing I've ever seen anybody do. Of all the issues that you feel like Christians should be thinking about, the issue should be Israel. Our Savior's biological family, the Jewish people are being murdered. We need to stand for them. Patricia, I'm so glad you're here. So much to talk about from Hollywood to God, to dealing with the God size hole in people's hearts right now and all the work that you're doing. So welcome. Welcome back to PragerU. Thank you so much for having me. Very excited to be here. So I want to start with Hollywood because it's always been a big puzzle for me and just love to hear just your experience there. I've always noticed that you are somewhat different in Hollywood. I remember in my earlier years following you and you would say that your path into life has been God, family, then career. And it is so different from what I notice in Hollywood where people say, well, if you want to make it in Hollywood, the number one thing you need to focus on is first career, because it's so hard to break in and then family. And then maybe if you have time just to put it on your checklist, maybe you'll find some God in your life. And you just did the entire reverse. So tell me just a little bit about that. Well, I am Catholic. I was raised in a very devout Catholic family. My mother was one of 15 children. I have 100 first cousins on my mom's side because all 15 got married and had between five and 10 kids. My grandmother was Catholic Mother of the Year for the United States. She got a medal from the Pope. My mom went to mass every day. She was a daily communicant. My sisters, a nun. You know, so, you know, we ate fish on Fridays, everything, rosaries, everything. So so my whole world has been thinking about God, talking to God, just living, as St. Paul says, in him, we live and breathe and have our being. And so I remember just thinking, like coming to when I first moved to New York, I moved to Hollywood thinking there's a lot of people that have not been raised in anything. How do they get through a day like I am constantly having conversations with God in my head? So so that's always just been there. And within that, I he created me as an actor out of the womb. I was an extrovert. I would march into Sister Delrina's class at St. Rayfield School in the second grade and say, I have a song I would like to present for the class that I just made up on the playground. And now I would like to sing it for the class. And she would have me come up and sing. Or when we first got the Barbara Streisand album in our home, the first one, My Name is Barbara, I memorized all the songs. And then I said, I'd like to sing a Barbara Streisand song. So so I don't see any separation from my spirituality and my acting, because I feel this is God just put that in me. I didn't have a choice in it. That's who I am. That's how I was created. So I pursued once I made the decision to be an actor, there was no one in my family to mentor me, nobody in the show business. So it wasn't until the middle of my junior year at Ohio State that I changed from journalism into theater. And so I had to kind of find my way. And it is true. You have to work really hard. You have to be 100 percent focused and committed. I'm doing that. As far as marriage and kids go, I'm just raised in a generation where you just assumed that was going to happen. I assumed I was going to be married and I assumed I was going to have children. I met my husband in New York in the late 80s. And then we moved to L.A. in the late 80s, early 90s. And it never seemed to me that you had to put that on hold for a career. And I found out later when we did get married and had children that it actually improves the way you focus on your career, because when you know you have a solid relationship at home and that no matter what happens to you in show business, you have a person who's there for you. So that actually gives you stability and comfort. And then when you have children, it breaks open a chamber of your heart that can only be opened by children. And it gives you and this sounds self-serving, but it gives you another well of emotions to dip into for your acting. And you become more vulnerable because now pieces of your heart are walking around you outside of your body. And so you're more vulnerable because you're responsible for them. And that vulnerability is great for acting that you you have more fears and you have more joy and everything is deepened. So that's a wonderful thing to bring to your work. And as far as the business end of the industry, sometimes actors so want a job that they will not fight as hard as they should for in their contract, for what they want, because they just really want the job. And they love acting. Actors do a lot of stuff for free because they just love acting. But now when you have kids, you're fighting for your kids. You're fighting for their educate, to pay for their education, putting food on the table, a roof over their head. So it made me fiercer as far as like what I need. And it's not for me, it's for my kids. So I was better at fighting for what I wanted. So there there was this to me, it was just kind of a natural way. And when I talk to actors, especially if I talk to Christian actors, I say, don't put off your life, don't put off relationship. It's first of all, it's cheaper for two people to live together. So just on a pragmatic thing. And then to have that person that you can always, you know, lean into and comfort, comfort and fun with and then having children. It just it inspires you to work harder and do better. So to me, it was just a natural way of prioritizing life. I relate to this so much as CEO, because people ask me all the time. Well, you know, Marissa, how do you run this company and have three kids under the age of 11? Isn't your business suffering? Aren't your children suffering? How are you able to do both? And I say that I'm able to do both because I have both. And the level of discernment that having a family gives you. Yes, is such a gift that it saves you hours in in work because you just you have a better instinct. It's like something gets honed in your mind when when you have a family and when you have children and when you have a person that you can go home to who can either balance you or you can balance ideas by or simply just be there as an anchor, like you said, to just say, hey, you know what? You know, maybe this deal is not that important. And just pass on and it will be fine because we're in this together. Yeah, 100 percent. It also you don't have time to dither about a choice. You just have to start making choices because you've got to be home by this certain time and get the kids, you know, fed and do their homework or read their story and put them to bed. So so you just don't have, you know, choice isn't always the greatest thing. Sometimes it's best to be hemmed in by responsibility so that I got faster and better at everything I did. I've said this before on my show. Comfort is an immobilizer, right? If you're too comfortable, then you're not as strategic, that you're not as effective. Yes. And you're not as strong as you need to be. Right. How did your faith impact your career? Did you ever feel like being so bold about your Catholicism or your walk with God impacted the way people in Hollywood looked at you or treated you? Or welcomed you? It you know, early on when I was just trying to get work, it never came up. And I have to say, for the most part, even though people look at Hollywood and think it is hostile to middle America or to religious people, and maybe some of the messaging that comes out in the projects does come across that way, I will say, because I don't think they don't understand it. But when you're just working, it is so hard to get a show written, to get it green lit, to get it produced, to cast it, to shoot it, to get it picked up, to get it picked up for eight, to get it picked up for 20 episodes, to get it picked up for another season that when you come to work, all anybody is doing is just trying to do their best. For the most part, you want to be that person that, you know, knows their lines, hits their marks, nice to the crew, shows up on time, works with the writers, respects the writers and the producers. And that gets you a long way so that if down the road someone found out I was a conservative or a Catholic or whatever, it wouldn't matter to them because I'm great to work with. Right. And so that's the most important thing. And to me, that's all that has ever happened on set. I did have one thing when it was Clinton running against Bush. So this is like early 90s. And everyone was very pro-Clinton. And I never said anything. But people were starting to really make fun of, oh, a thousand points of light. I think Bush said that about like people volunteering and and everybody's making fun of it. And a friend of mine had like a Bush pin. And I said, give me that. Give me that pin. I'm just going to wear it into work. And I put it on my jacket. But then I like put my lapel over it, your hair over it, my hair on top of it. But somebody spotted it. And we were sitting at this table read. The director said, is that a Bush pin that you're wearing? And I said, yeah. He goes, we don't really have time, but can you just tell us in like 60 seconds or less why you would vote for Bush? I was like, I don't know, I'm a Catholic, I'm pro-life. And and then I kind of made up some other stuff that I was like pulling it out of my bum because I didn't really know what I was talking about. And something about his lack of experience on the international stage. I don't know. And and so I said, you know, that that's it. And and I didn't really want people to. I didn't even want to express who I was voting for or anything like that. But I thought that the they shouldn't assume everybody felt felt the same way, right? Because I would never speak in a room of people that I didn't know that well and say anything disparaging about any of these hot button topics because I don't know where people are coming from and what their experiences. But that was that's never the case. I feel like in Hollywood, I think that's the one thing. There's just an assumption that, you know, who you're going to vote for. So so that you know, that was interesting. And what was really interesting is people up came up to me later who were, you know, more liberal, whatever. And one person said that was the bravest thing I've ever seen anybody do. Like but whispering it to me. Somebody came down from the production office and said, we don't agree with you, but we absolutely stand with your right to say anything you want to say so that and somebody else came down and just said, I heard about your button, you know, so I mean, it was really funny. And that was like my first experience of ever saying anything. And that was way before things way before things got as heated. Yeah. Wow. But you know what? The people on that show are all friends of mine. I love them dearly. And it used to be OK to have different points of view. It was. And it should. We need to go back to that. And I have hope that we will go back to that because I think things have gotten extreme. I'm more of a centrist and I think everybody is seeing the extremes that are happening on either side and nobody wants that. Some actors are complaining that, you know, because you don't write your own scripts, you have to read the words of others and they're complaining that so much of, you know, the woke narrative is in every script right now with D.I. and all of that. And so have you had this experience where you had to read words and say things that really strongly go against your values? Well, you know, early on, I remember I was offered a show and I went to the showrunner and I said, I just need to tell you I'm pro-life. So I'm not going to do a pro-abortion thing unless it's balanced with a pro-life view. Like we could we can talk about both, but I'm not going to do. And she said, we're not going to do anything out of abortion. Nothing's funny about abortion. I'm like, OK, I just wanted you to know. So and since then, I've had these long running shows and God's been very kind to me, putting me on shows that never veered into these areas. And in fact, so Everybody Loves Raymond was this family who is Catholic. We did a thing about Deborah having a sister who's becoming a nun, which was because my sister's a nun. We had a thing about Ray's dad, played by the late, great Peter Boyle, asking Ray why he doesn't go to mass. It was a huge episode. It got such a great response. And then on the middle, that family went to church and it was just a part of their lives. It wasn't emphasized. It wasn't ignored. It's just like there would be episodes where we would be in church and we went and visited a black church in one episode. And there was a character named Reverend Tim Tom, who was the youth pastor. You know, and and I remember the first time I read the script where Reverend Tim Tom shows up. I just felt this like not in my stomach because I thought, how are they going to represent this guy? Is it going to be a creep? You know, what's going to happen? It's the most wonderful character played by the incredibly talented Paul Hipp, who wrote all Reverend Tim Tom's songs. And, you know, Paul himself is very liberal guy, was raised Catholic, though, and a dear friend of mine. And it was such a beautiful character. And I said to Eileen Heisler and Deanne Helene, our incredible showrunners, I said, you don't know what this means to Christians out there who are going to be watching this show, that a character who's a pastor is going to be well represented, is going to be a likable, lovable character. You have no idea how important this is. When I started reading the script, I was really nervous. And by the end of it, it was I had to call you and tell you that. So, you know, I have been very, very fortunate that I haven't had to deal in these long running shows with anything that I would feel go against anything I want to put out there. So it's tricky because when you, you know, if the overall message of a project is antithetical to how you view the world, then you have a big choice to make. And that's really hard. Now, there are characters within things who are going to be terrible people. Right. And you need those. You need to show that. So that is easier to say yes to. But if the overall program is antithetical, then then there's an issue. Yeah. You are lucky that, you know, I guess God gave you the right, the right match. So blessed. How do you go from having this, you know, massive career with everybody loves Raymond, then you have nine more years with another show. You just have this massive career in Hollywood and acting. And you kind of like had a recent shift. I know that you're still in the middle of a show right now, which is why you're here in California and you're still doing it. But it seems like it's not entirely your focus. Right. And so how do you go from that first act of your life to second act of your life? It's almost making me think like you're 20 all over again. Yeah, right. You're like, what am I doing? I'm like, OK. Yeah. It's been very interesting because I had pretty solid work for 20 years. And then we had the pandemic and then we had the writer's strike and then the actor's strike. And in that time, my kids are out of the house. So I'm no longer an actress on a long running sitcom. I'm also not full time mom. And these are the things that give you your identity, that anchor you to this world, that give you purpose. And so it's been very challenging to get up in the morning and say, what am I supposed to do today? And that's like when I talk to God, I'm just like, you need to tell me what what you want me to do, what you want me to do, because I I'm bad at making choices and I'd rather just wait on you. But I don't I don't know how to actively wait. I'm a doer. Yeah. And so how do you actively wait on God? I don't I would love all your viewers to write in and tell me. I did like the first year of this, read the Bible all the way through, which was fantastic. It was a challenge, but it was fantastic. I also realized I needed to quit drinking because I'm from Irish Catholic family, big drinkers in Ohio. There's a lot of drinking that goes on. And I absolutely adore bourbon and vodka. And when you are in this place of discomfort of like, I don't know who I am. I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing. It's very easy, just like crack open Prosecco at lunchtime. And all of that, you know, that anxiety just kind of vanishes, you know. But then you also fall asleep at three o'clock in the afternoon and then your sleep at night is terrible. And and it just it can become a habit and it can become addictive. And so I really saw that I was it wasn't that I was doing that much drinking, but I was thinking about it a lot like, oh, do I have a lunch today I can go to? And, you know, one time I was open a bottle of wine to cook dinner. And by the by the end of the night, I had drunk the whole bottle by myself over a few hours. But still, I was I'm a small person. And I just thought this is not good. And as I did some more research, I found out that women in their 40s and 50s who had already been moderate drink, always been moderate drinkers become alcoholics in like their 60s. You don't realize what's happening to you. And your body doesn't metabolize alcohol the same way after menopause. And so you can start getting into trouble. And so very graciously, after I asked him to do so, God took it away from me. And it's this month, it's six years. Yeah. With not drinking. I guess you talk about vacuums in your life, right? And so that's what happens. You have a God size hole in your heart. Something else fills it in. You have suddenly an emptier calendar. It gets filled in. And if you're not conscious about it and you're not really making sure that you are using your time and your mind and your spirit in the right way, bad things will fill it up, right? Yes. And I think, you know, sometimes people think, oh, everybody in California is very woowoo and they all do different therapies and meditations and stuff. But it's been kind of great to be in a place where you're encouraged to look inward. It can turn into a bad thing if you look inward too much. You need balance. But you do need to take a look at things that are going on and be thoughtful and understand that you're going to be going through phases and changes. And so, you know, I've always had like, you know, I hope God in that vacuum, in that God shaped vacuum. And being an actor, you're always thinking about a person's psychology and a character's psychology. So it's the way I think anyway. And so when I observe people and I read characters and I observe what the character is doing, I also do that with myself. I observe myself and see what's what I'm doing and my choices that I'm making, the way I'm thinking. And so that's been helpful to me to be in this environment where exploring this kind of stuff is encouraged. So that's been really great for me. I want to ask you a little bit about impact. So one of the ways you've impacted me is by providing something that I call cultural literacy. So growing up, I would watch your shows and my friends would watch your shows. And my friends would oftentimes be from other backgrounds, right? They didn't grow up in the same neighborhood that I grew up in. And especially in college, when we came together with kids from different backgrounds, we had some cultural literacy. Everybody watched. Everybody loves Raymond. Everybody watched certain shows, whether it's Seinfeld or all the things that made us laugh. Today, there's less and less of those shows that bring us all together. So on the one hand, it's really fun that we have all this abundance, right? And we can just, you know, stream anything at any point in time, whenever we want. But given that we are pushed in a direction of more multiculturalism, more identity politics, and now we don't even have entertainment as something that brings us all together because there is so much out there. There is there is this vacuum that has been created for us to connect as Americans. And I'm curious, given that you had that responsibility, I don't know if you realize that when you were in Hollywood, but that's what you all did for us. You brought us together under this umbrella of entertainment that seems to be less and less of a cultural literacy, less and less of something that brings us together and more of something that's almost dividing us. Yeah, you know, I tell my kids all the time, you guys, you missed the 70s. There's so much stuff you missed, you know, when we had no choice but three channels or whatever it was. And actually, when I look back on some of that stuff, I'm like, oh, they didn't miss that much. But but Jerry Seinfeld just spoke about this on an interview where he said we used to have like Cheers and Raymond and Seinfeld and Friends and, you know, these different shows and then E.R., the dramas that we all watched, Hill Street Blues. That's going way that's going way, way too far back. But L.A. Law, maybe that was 80s. And everybody watched them. And so it was just network television. And we all talked about it. And you're right. We absolutely shared that. It was just like a wonderful thing that brought us together. Most had nothing to do with politics. And as you said, there's some great things. We get to see incredible shows from all over the world. So it does expand you. I'm a very big fan of Korean television. I watch a lot of Korean, particularly Korean zombie stuff. If you have not seen Train to Busan. Oh, OK. Zombies on a speeding train. It's fantastic. We need to do a separate podcast about zombies. OK, I'm just saying. I'm going to have to study up on that one. I have four sons. So that's there you go. But I think I would have been watching zombies or they had boys. I did watch that violent Korean show. What is that? Oh, oh, oh. Squid Games. I did watch Squid Game. I did. Which was very violent. Amazing. I thought it was brilliant. And it was quite violent. I don't have a it depends on the violence, but like Walking Dead. It's just incredible. And and most mostly they were killing zombies. So it's not like they were killing human beings. And the way they found to kill zombies season after season. They were so creative. It's amazing. Can the Koreans just unite Americans? Maybe we'll all just come together for cultural literacy around Korean. Well, I mean, the other great thing about having kids is it kind of keeps me in touch with what's happening musically and what shows they're watching and what they like. But, you know, listen, they will watch Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy with us and try to guess the you know, so there is some connection. But I think with every new development in society, culturally, there's pluses and minuses and we just have to kind of work together to, you know, to figure it out. I do think that network television is maybe going to come back in a stronger way. Things in our industry are very cyclical. And two years ago, we were being told nobody wants a multicam. Nobody wants a multicam. It's a dead genre. Now we're hearing we need multicams because that's the kind of show that unites people and it's much cheaper than a single camera. So and money is tight for everybody right now, including in Hollywood. So people are really coming back to that. So it's all cyclical. And I think things will come back again and we'll we'll find a way forward. Why is there less stuff coming out of Hollywood right now? And there are just these constant, I guess, strikes. The strike, the writers strike, the actors strike. We're waiting for the teamsters to sign their contract. And so a lot of studios are afraid to put anything into production until we know the teamsters have signed their contract because we can't do anything without the teamsters. So there's been a bit of a pause. And the phrase that people in Hollywood are saying is stay alive till 25. So in order like just try to stay afloat, if you're not working now and so many people are out of work, I know in across the country, people are struggling. It's a huge struggle in Hollywood. People that have worked nonstop for 20 years are saying, I have not worked in six months. And there's writers, hair and makeup people, producers, producer that I know just said, I've been doing this for 30 years. I've never seen it as bad as it is right now, which is odd because with streaming, there's so much more content. And we all thought, oh, we're all going to work forever now because there's so much content and it's somehow contracted. So I don't know. We'll see. Do you think it has been helpful to the competitors of Hollywood? Like, you know, I know you moved to Nashville. You're doing some work there. Are we seeing some more of these smaller entertainment companies growing out of, I guess, this situation? Yes. I mean, there's a lot. One of the reasons we decided to leave L.A. is because nothing was being shot there that we were involved with. And also all meetings were on Zoom and even TV appearances were on Zoom. So we didn't really need to be there and pay the high taxes and all that comes with Los Angeles. So so that's kind of why we moved. And I think there's a lot of really talented people leaving L.A. and going to places like Nashville and Atlanta. They're in Florida, they're in Texas, and they're producing their own stuff. And what we found in Nashville, which is really exciting, is there's these funds that are coming together to produce stuff specifically for middle America, going back to some just the old straightforward entertainment, which I'm really excited about. I tell you, one thing I'm very thrilled about is that CBS is rebooting Matlock with Kathy Bates in the lead. And I had the honor of meeting her. She's just a wonderful human being. And I was so excited because Matlock is just one of those shows. It's comfort food. You know, it's like macaroni and cheese, but they've got a woman in the lead. And she told me that it's it's much deeper than just a regular procedural. And there's some really cool backstories that they're exploring. Kathy's about my age, maybe a few years older. And so it was so encouraging for me to see a woman as talented as her, who often when you get to a certain age, you're just put on the shelf to be doing this new show. And I think it's going to be huge. Do you think the faith based media that's coming out now and there's a lot of movies around there, Angel Studios and Daily Wire and and many other companies seem to be tapping into the fact that there is a growing movement around, I think, especially in America, where people are are going back to faith. They they may not find that cultural literacy and education. They may not find that cultural connection in Hollywood, but they seem to be finding that cultural or or I guess connection community in the church. And, you know, my hypothesis is that given that there is a whole bunch of nothingness everywhere else, right? At least the silver lining is that they're they're turning back to God. And so I'm curious if there's going to be more synergy between that and and media. Well, I hope so. I feel that for a long time, the faith based content was kind of in this Christian ghetto. Yeah. And it wasn't particularly sophisticated. It was cringe. Yeah, it was very cringe. Thanks. I didn't want to say that, but now there's two of us. It's real talk. That's right. And, you know, so my husband and I, David Hunt, who we produce and direct together, he directs, I produce. You know, just we never got involved in any of it because it just didn't seem quality. Let me give you an example. Way back in the 58. My favorite movie on the waterfront with Marlon Brando, Eva Marie Saint, Karl Malden, and he play if you haven't seen it, you must watch it. And it's about the corrupt mob running the docks in New York, I think it was. And and it's a story of this guy's redemption, who was Marlon Brando, always on the take. And he decides to testify against the mob and he loses his brother and all the stuff. And there's an incredible speech by Karl Malden, who plays a priest. And he talks about Jesus is here on the dock. He sees everything that's happening to you and that you need to fight. And I mean, it's it's an incredible movie written by a Jewish man, directed by a Jewish man. OK, so and, you know, won numerous Academy Awards. It's beautifully directed, acted. The music is incredible. And it's not a faith based movie. So and in the 70s, if you saw like the movie Jesus Revolution, yes, there was the Jesus, there was the hippie movement. And within the hippie movement, there were Jesus freaks. And there were songs that everybody did that were not necessarily religious songs, but they talked about Jesus is just all right with me. That was Doobie Brothers Spirit in the Sky. That was that guy's like one hit wonder. I can't remember his name. Let it be by the Beatles. There was no separation. Everybody listened to this. So now I think that the entertainment industry outside of Hollywood and some studios, they're seeing there's ways to make content that would be sort of God infused or values infused. I think the industry is moving away from saying faith based to values based so that it opens up to a wider audience that people don't feel like they're being preached at. And I think that is all going to be coming outside of Hollywood. But with some studios leaning that direction, they see there's a thirst for it in the movie going population. And just also for for fun stuff like the movie Twister that's out right now, like all my kids are going to see Twister because it's a big, fun summer movie. Yeah, right. Like Mission Impossible was like Top Gun. You know, we need more of that. And I think people are leaning into that, too. But I think the faith based community is getting smarter. And that's I really welcome that because we would like to be able to produce stuff. Our stuff was always like to to God infused for Hollywood, but not God infused enough for the Christian producers. Like you'd have to have a pastor and somebody had to give their life to Christ. You know, it was just like this textbook kind of formula that you had to follow, which is most people's lives are not like that. Yeah. You know, it's more complicated. Can we get into some of the hard stuff? Yeah. I want to talk to you about anti-Semitism. Yeah. So you're a lifelong Catholic. Yeah. You understand the church better than me. Probably better than most, given how committed you are to it. I am noticing a a growing vibe of anti-Semitism in the church. I don't know if it's from physically the actual church, the actual churches, or is it online? Is that something that you're noticing as well? Is there a growing. Strand of anti-Semitism in in American churches. As far as the Catholic Church goes, I think there's a slice of people. I don't I don't know how to label them, but they are definitely they're more traditional. I wouldn't say it's the trad movement. I can't blanket them with anti-Semitism, but people with the more right of the if the church is a spectrum of liberal and conservative, the most conservative for some reason. And I don't know how they support it scripturally seem to be. It's not anti-Semitism in the way you get from Hamas, where it's like kill the Jews. It's not that, but it's like a replacement theory. And it's not only in Catholic Church. There's a Reformed Presbyterian. Evangelicals are mostly very pro-Israel. And I've had a lot of Jewish friends come up to me and say, do the Christians really believe that they're waiting for all the Jews to move to Israel so that Jesus will come back? And I said, there are some people that believe that. That's good news for you. Yeah. May they love the Jews until the Messiah comes. To preserve Israel, which is what you want. So, you know, so I get that question. But there is this weird and it's a fringe. I feel that this is fringe. But I think the church really needs to speak out against it. And I would have to see if the pope has said something specifically. I know he condemned October 7th. What I have more of a problem with and what caused me to to create this organization, October 7th Coalition or 07C, is that I didn't see any churches after October 7th speaking out about what had just happened. You would get a generic from the pulpit, pray for the Middle East. No, no. Pray for the Jewish people who have just been slaughtered by this evil Islamism, extreme Islamism. It is bad. And they are taught to hate Jews, to kill Jews, to clear the planet of Jews. We need to stand up to that. I was not seeing that. And so why? Why do you think? Why do we do you think you're not seeing more of those righteous Gentiles? I guess that you would say. I would say a couple of things. Some people mistake niceness for Christianity. Christianity is about being nice. It's not. And I think what happens is, well, if we say we support Israel, what about the Palestinians who are being harmed? And yes, we have to pray for the Palestinians who are being harmed because they voted in leaders who went and told their their army to slaughter innocent Jews. That's why they're being harmed. So we have to speak against that. It is not Israel's fault. Hamas started a war. Israel's defending Israel and Israelis and Jews. And so Hamas has to deal with what they started. And we have to be very strong about that. And when I saw the amount of anti-Semitism on campuses, it just everything became clear like this is a real problem. Maybe we could say back in World War Two, we didn't really know. That's why we didn't say anything. We can't say that now. We see what's happening. We see the propaganda in these young minds of people who who want to be a part of something important, who want to do good in the world. And they've been bamboozled by these really left wing anti-Jewish professors, and they've been funded by anti-Jewish countries like Iran and China and Qatar. And so we were sitting back, living our lives, minding our own business, knowing that anti-Semitism was around, but it was controllable. And in that time, while the normies were having their lives, these psychopaths have been plotting on how to kill Jews and then Christians after that, and how to take down Western civilization and democracy and how to install Sharia law. That's what's been happening. And so we, you know, unfortunately, because we're normal and nice, we thought everything was OK. Well, now we know it's not. And now we have to do something about it. I just it's kind of like it was a gut punch to me. And it's like scales fell from my eyes. And I thought this country is coming apart because there are people who who are standing up for Hamas and Hezbollah and the Houthis, queers for Palestine. How is that possible? How is it possible when all these people who are standing up for this stuff would be killed the minute they set foot in any of these places if they didn't become Muslims? It's it's unfathomable to me, and I don't know exactly what we should do about it, but I'm doing whatever I can using my platform to tell Christians, as we say at 07C, to be visibly and vocally supportive of the Jewish people, of Israel's right to exist and to fight anti-Semitism. And we really have to focus on campus and we have to get out of our silos of here's this church here and here's this temple here. And we have to bring people together. We have to start talking to each other, supporting each other. And we have to let go of any political differences that we have. So I'm sure a lot of liberal Jewish people don't want to hear this, but a lot of people who support Israel are Trump voters. Got to get over it. We got to be together on this. Any differences we have on immigration, the economy, abortion, whatever, back burner. This is the most important thing now is making sure our country is safe and secure and that we can defend Western democracy and our shared values. Patricia, why is this such an important issue to you? I feel like you're probably confronted with questions like this. America has many other problems. We have an open border. We have all kinds of issues. But you are taking on this issue of Israel, a country on the other side of the world in the Middle East. Like, really, of all the issues that you feel like Christians should be thinking about, the issue should be Israel. You know, I was brought up learning a lot about World War Two and hearing about the people who stood up, the lone voices, Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Corey Ten Boom, people who tried to help where they were planted. And I posted after October 7th on Instagram a video that said, did you ever have the thought if you were a German during World War Two that you would be that good German that would hide your Jewish neighbors? Well, today you have that opportunity. And I listed a bunch of places you could donate to to help Israel. And I said, if you can't afford to do this, call or text any Jewish friends, you know, and just ask them how they're doing. Reach out. Because I had started reaching out to Jewish friends and I had been found out I was the only one that reached out to them. And I had said, how are you doing? And, you know, they were really, really upset and freaked out. And I talked to my friend Elizabeth Doros, who's my founding partner of October 7th Coalition. And I said, shouldn't the church be doing something here? Like, we got to do something. And she's like an energizer bunny and an incredible machine of a person who gets stuff done. And she started pulling pastors together, said, let's let's do a lunch and talk to pastors and find out why. I know they're good people. Let's find out why they're not saying anything. And, you know, he started getting interesting, different answers. And I have kind of evolved to like, tell me, tell me about why you're not saying anything or whatever to like, you need to get up and say something like that. So I'm the gent my gentle approach. I'm starting to let go of a little bit, because when you see what people through the history of the church sacrificed for their beliefs, they've sacrificed their lives for the church. And I feel that this is one of those things. Christ's biological family is being murdered. Our Savior's biological family, the Jewish people, are being murdered. We need to stand for them. We are grafted into Israel by the graciousness of God. So we need to stand for them. And I believe every Christian, in particular, pastors are going to be held accountable. Now, I understand you've got a church. We've had shootings at churches. We've had shootings at temples, fatalities, lots of violence. I get they feel like this is my flock that I am in charge of. I need to make sure I'm protecting them. But I think there are things that you can do in your church to make sure your congregation understands what's at stake here. And we have gotten a lot of pastors to come together with Jewish leaders. That's part of our focus. We had a breakfast of 80 pastors in Nashville and we had Jewish people speak. We hosted the Hamas body cam footage that the Israeli government put together in Nashville. We had 120 Christian leaders come to see that. We had about 500 people here in Los Angeles come to a unity event at Bel Air Church with Pastor Drew Sams, who was kind enough to let us host it, which brought Rabbi Abe Cooper. And we had IDF soldiers. We had two survivors from Nova and from the kibbutzim speak. So we go from city to city, helping people create events, meeting each other, get to know each other, find ways to educate each other and make sure they understand the importance of supporting Israel and how much Jews and Christians need to put their differences aside and come together. You're involved in one of the most important movements of our time. I'm curious, has anything surprised you throughout this experience now that you've been doing this for a few months? I didn't know there was so much differentiation within Christian churches. Christian and Catholic, obviously there's so many denominations, but then the theologies within that, which I'm being educated on. And then how different Jewish Americans are from Israeli Jews. And then within Jewish Americans, they're just as divided as Christians are. Yeah, two Jews, three opinions, maybe seven opinions. You know, Reform Church and Orthodox and Modern Orthodox and Ultra Orthodox and Chabad, which is a whole other thing, which I've fallen in love with, actually. So and we're always having to sort of navigate these minefields, which has been very interesting and challenging. And it requires us to really just lean on God's wisdom and not our own and that kind of guidance, because we feel like he has compelled us to be in this space. And so, you know, there's a great quote that St. Paul was writing to the Corinthians and he said, put on the full armor of God so that when the day of evil comes, you do everything you can to stand. And when you've done everything, just stand. And Elizabeth and I say to each other every day, OK, how are we standing today? Like just today, what are we doing? And that's you don't have to create a movement. Anybody listening to this doesn't have to create a movement. How can you stand today? What can you do? Can you contribute to a synagogue? Can you learn more about Israel's history so that when you talk to people about it and maybe this is the most important thing, educate yourself about the history of Israel so that when you talk to people who have bought into the propaganda, they may not listen to you, but at least you'll have answers and that you discuss it in a calm way. Now, a lot of those people won't even discuss anything. They've become automatons who have been told to just put your little scarf on, hide your face and don't say anything. This seems to be their method. And so you can't really talk to those people, but you can try and you can know for yourself the truth. And that's the most important thing. Yeah, the miseducation is real. I mean, we had to rush to produce a seven part series on the history of the wars against Israel because every single one of them has been launched against Israel, the one Jewish state in the entire world. But it is it seems like it's difficult for people to find ways to get educated on the matter because, you know, there are so much, I guess, so many lies and it's so hard to counter that or it's so hard to sift through the narrative of the lies about the issue. I just find it so astonishing that you're you're, you know, you and and your team at October 7th Coalition are so dedicated to this. I mean, I feel like every time we talk, while you still have your career going on, you still have the show going on. It's like your heart is full with this mission. It is so incredible. Right. Everybody is pulling at you and everybody wants you. And you're like, I am on a mission and I'm serving him and I know what I'm doing. Well, when I saw the body cam footage, because when October 7th happened, they Hamas fighters were putting that online. You could see it everywhere. Yeah. And I was shocked. And I was looking around thinking, am I the only one seeing this? Like, why isn't everyone in the street? Why isn't every church just pouring out on Sunday after service and saying we have to do something? It was astonishing because they don't intend this just for Israel. They intend this for the world. And they teach their children nursery rhymes about killing Jews. They throw gay people off the top of buildings. They marry 12-year-olds to 60-year-old men. This is terrible. We need to do something. And for some reason, God allowed this particular area to really activate me in a way that surprised even me. You know, Elizabeth and I, we don't get paid. We don't make any money. We spend our own money. We are financing it because we have, you know, we've gotten a little contributions here and there and we appreciate everyone, everybody who's contributed. But, you know, and so it's hard work and we're running around doing all this stuff. Our families are paying a price of us not being around to do it, our husbands in particular. And so, but it's just something we feel very compelled to do. And the response to us has been huge. So we feel that we're needed out there. And so, I don't know, we just we just try to get up every day. Elizabeth and I are very well matched because we push back on each other about are we going to do this? We're going to do that. Where are we going to get the money for this? And the good thing about the two of us kind of just being the whole show is that we don't have a board we have to get approval from. It's just like, hey, somebody call me. Should we go do this? Well, let me look at my schedule. Yeah, I could do that. OK, let's go. So, you know, that makes things simple. And I think also having the platform I have has has been a blessing. And I often think that, you know, God gave me the career he did not so much so that I could get awards and have, you know, enjoy myself, but for such a time as this to use it. So amazing. Can you share with me some of the feedback that you've received, the positive feedback? Oh, it's it's been brilliant. I mean, the the people are so thankful, which shocks me. I don't think anything that Elizabeth and I are doing is special. This is where any human being should be doing this. We're seeing people getting slaughtered. Everyone, it's not special. If I, you know, if I decided to become a bomber pilot and join the IDF, that would be yeah, that's wow. Thank you. But just to say you shouldn't be beheading babies is not a controversial thing. You shouldn't be going into a person's home and burning the family alive. It's not a controversial opinion or viewpoint. If it is, then we are living in really the end times. Right. So I I mean, I am so thankful that God's put me in a position to be able to do this, but I don't think it's special. My goodness, if this is special, we're really in trouble. We're really in trouble. How can people support what you're doing? If you go to October the number seven coalition dot com, you can sign up. And if you want to make a contribution, you can do that. But we're doing, you know, different events in different cities. And you'll always be able to find out there. And we will alert you to the different opportunities we have for you to participate and also give you ideas on what you can do in your own community. So and I'm involved in a number of things. We have a wonderful women's conference coming up in Israel in the beginning of November. And you can go to 07C October seven coalition dot com to find out. And it's for Jewish and Christian women. It's the first time we're bringing women together in this way. It's called Deborah Rising. And if you go to October seven coalition dot com, you can you can see it. I'm not sure if it's completely up yet, but it will be there shortly. And we'd love we'd love for everybody to join us. I have never been to Israel. Really? No. That's people keep saying you're Catholic. You've never been to Israel. What are you doing here? I'm like, I have no idea. Like God calls who he calls. Right. And so so we're I'm very excited to go. I think it will be life changing and to go with with incredibly wonderful, intelligent, powerful women. You know, anybody that goes on that trip is going to be a special person. Yeah. So I'm excited about it. If people want to bring your project into their churches, because I know that many of our viewers go to church, run their own churches. Is that something that you can help facilitate through the website? Yes, because you can sign up and then there's a pastor sign up. And but even if you're not a pastor, you know, it'll give you information of telling you can tell your pastor about us and we can help help. Either I'll come and speak and we'll set it up for you. Or if I can't be there, I can't be in every place at once. We'll we'll figure out a way and help you kind of connect within your community. Amazing. Well, bless you. Bless you for everything you do. We appreciate you so much. Thanks. I thank you for giving me this time.