A Pediatrician’s Advice on Parenting in Age of “Woke” | Real Talk

Jessica hochman is a pediatrician and a mother of three Dr Jessica and I had a very important discussion that I think all current and future parents should hear I don't know if it's ever been as hard as it is today to raise children the social media mommy mob the vaccine mandates the push towards transgender children hormone blockers and the phenomena of politics in literally everything have made it overwhelming to say the least I hope this conversation helps you lower the temperature [Music] I'm so glad you're here I'm so happy to be here thank you for having me you're a pediatrician you're a mom of three kids uh you have a way about you that is so calm you always talk about lowering the temperature and I think our country needs to hear from people like you there's just been so much public distress in our health practitioners because what has been going on over the last few years and so I do feel for you but I'm also proud of you because you remain honest and attentive and caring and I learned so much from you over the years about just generally cooling down the temperature and when I think about you I don't think about you as a political person at all I think of you as a person who really just wants people to thrive and children to thrive genuinely thank you so much for having me here it really is an honor and I would say I'm proud of you for for spearheading these conversations that are difficult um and as far as beating being a doctor I still really like what I do I've always liked what I do and um I don't like to complain about it because it's my it's my passion taking care of these kids so one of the things that I learned over the last 10 years since being a parent is that the Twitter mob or the mommy mob is one of the scariest places on planet Earth it may be and you know I remember before having my first child I would read all these books and I would just try to perfect the system and make sure that I follow the manual on how to raise a perfect child and how to be a perfect parent which you know looking back now after having three children I admit it is impossible it's an impossible task but I think that people don't realize how difficult it is to expect that there's going to be some sort of manual and actually adhere to this manual and so in this era of social media in books and information many parents feel like they have to follow specific rules all the time absolutely I think it's actually it's awful in many ways because I think nobody has it perfect right nobody's the perfect parent nobody has an easy child mild I mean some are easier than others but it adds on so much stress to think about oh my goodness baby LED weaning you're right diaper when do you get your kids out of diapers do you do the boot camp do you do gentle toilet training do you let them do it on their own um do you do uh you know in terms of how to feed them it's very stressful for new parents and so so I appreciate that because I do think in the end the less that we pay attention to social media and how to parent the better off we we are I look one of the things that you always say is like kind of like take a chill pill things will be okay you don't have to follow you know every single you know direction that you read about online and we're seeing more and more of this phenomena where you know parents are expected to just follow the rules of the outsider as opposed to really lean in and understand their child and and raise a child in a way that is good for them not necessarily good for whatever manual was published by somebody who never even met the kid no absolutely I think that's beautifully said the the parent the parental Instinct I think is so important when I see families in my office and they seem extra worried I really want to make sure that I pay attention to what they're saying and understand why they're worried because oftentimes they know the answer or they'll lead me to the answer but I agree I think that it's really hard for parents now with all the input and from the external sources rather than just relying on your own your own thoughts guiding you know being Guided by your own gut instinct I remember this one time I went on one of those mommy blogs those evil places that I describe how yeah and uh it was right after you know I'm a working parent I do admit I feed my children Kraft mac and cheese it's probably not the healthiest thing in the world but it's also not the end of the world and I read I read this comment by one of the parents saying oh I you know I my husband fed my child Kraft mac and cheese and I think I should leave him because he's a horrible dad and all the moms are like you're right he's horrible horrible human being horrible oh my goodness no I mean I think about it when I was a kid I was raised on I got up plenty of fast food and I'm still here to talk about it right um yeah I know it's very stressful for parents and there's so much more to Parenting than feeding them you know organic grass-fed hormone-free Foods well those things are you know if parents like to do it that's great but I do think in the end all of these pressures are very stressful for parents and it and the hard part is it takes away from your relationship with your child it takes away I think from how much you enjoy being a parent which ultimately is the most important yeah I mean how amazing it is to be able to raise kids with less anxiety right I mean if a parent has all this anxiety yes I think it's worse for them to have a parent with all this anxiety than a parent who feeds them craft mac and cheese every once or whatever it is I would agree I would agree I think in this climate in particular if you can raise your child with I mean everybody has anxiety but if you can keep it to a minimum you're really doing them a favor I think it's a gift yeah yeah I mean I think so much of what we're experiencing right now is there is a narrative that Physicians are expected to repeat and there is the alternative narrative that physicians may agree with but they're Whispering because they don't want to experience any sort of backlash and one of the things I always say is when I think of Physicians when I grew up generally you guys were the Geeks with the you know you know with the faces in the books and not really the ones who want to you know run against the herd and you know create controversy and you know be social justice Warriors or be you know Patriot Warriors or whatever it is and so it's just put you guys in this awkward situation where so much of politics and culture is now creeping into your own practices and it's just again it's just very difficult to navigate you know another example that I want to bring up is this you know fat and obese is beautiful uh which you know as a parent I really struggle with that narrative I don't want my children to think that fat and obese is beautiful I want my kids to think that healthy is beautiful and so too skinny and anorexic is not beautiful and too fat is not beautiful either and you know we want kids to feel comfortable in their bodies but we also want them to be accountable for their bodies and accountable for for their health and you know covet is a perfect example where people who were overweight generally did not fare as well as you know folks who were in good shape and so I think that if you tell a seven-year-old or ten-year-old a 14 year old that no matter how much weight they gain it's not going to matter I think that's a false and it's terrible thing because it's just going to be even more difficult for them to lose weight as they get older and I'm just wondering as a pediatrician have you experienced any of those kinds of issues in your practice and also as a mom what are your thoughts on that so are you referring to the advertisements that we see okay the advertisements that we see whether it's Lululemon and GAP and Target I think it's also in the schools uh it's for sure on social media because anything evil is on social media uh it's all over Tick Tock okay so a couple of thoughts I have the first I'll say I I actually am in the camp where I am all for body positivity and what I mean by that is I think it's so hard to be um it's so hard to be a teenager it's so hard to to have your body change and I think that if we can do something as a society to make people feel more comfortable about their bodies I actually think that's a good thing so I could say I remember when I was a teenager and as you pointed out most of the ads were really thin women and I remember as a teenager really feeling like I should be thinner I should be looking like those women and so I do think that um encouraging people to feel good about themselves is is I support that I think that's I think that's a good a good part of the movement however I think um I don't want to confuse the message that being overweight is healthy because I do think um it's important to talk about health and in the sense that eating well and exercise is a healthy way to live and so I don't know like that message can be mixed together but I don't I just I want to encourage body positivity without losing the message to to my patients to society that exercise and eating well is a good thing to do so how do you do that how do I do that oh gosh yeah I think I honestly in my office I um I'm very sensitive I I try I never talk about body image because I don't think that's important you know everybody has different body types we all come in different shapes and sizes but I'm more related to health I talk about why I want them to be healthy because you're less likely to have heart disease high cholesterol kidney issues later on arthritis joint disease so I do think that message is important but I try to meet the families where they're at some people are more receptive to these conversations and some are are less and so I respect that when bringing my kids in yeah to my kids pediatrician there's like a chart yes the 90th percentile I don't know if that stops at a certain age because I can't remember the last time I've seen one of those charts yes but there is a point where you look at a chart and let's say you have a 12 year old and they're 30 pounds overweight yes do you say something to the family or is that now considered offensive because you don't want to Fat shame someone and then never change yeah never yeah right right I never like to I never it's not in me to and I don't feel that way I don't want it right and it's not productive either to shame someone no no but it's more that I want to be there for them if I show them the charts and I will talk about weight and if if I can help them I want to help them I want to send them to the right resources I don't think it can be ignored as a pediatrician because honestly if I don't say something to them who's going to say something to them about their health right I mean especially when there is this you know bizarre culture right now that is over advocating again for you know all of these issues that might not even be that good for these kids right I I mean I think I think if people look at the ads and it makes them feel more comfortable or makes them feel better about themselves that's one thing um but I don't want to conflate that it's the same as health right because I think we're not being honest if we say that being severely overweight is healthy yeah it's harder to run it's harder to recover I mean it's harder and not to mention that should they choose to lose weight when they're older like I mentioned earlier I think it just makes it much much more difficult absolutely no I and I think during covet we saw this too a lot of kids gained a lot of weight just from being inactive not being at school not playing in their Sports so it's it's an important issue so speaking of over advocating and when it comes to sensitive topics I wanted to bring up the issue of how do we remain compassionate and thoughtful when it comes to the issue of transgender okay and specifically with children but also how do we remain rational and caring of the majority and all the folks that are around the kids who are not necessarily transgender or have gender dysphoria there is a video that has gone viral recently with a Yale Professor talking about how these gender Journeys are going to start at age three it's mind-boggling to me that people are having these conversations with a straight face because you know I have a four-year-old and if she has to make a decision of what to even eat for lunch you know Mommy is going to intervene and say no Skittles and M M's are not a lunch right and so I don't know how a four-year-old is going to be able to decide what gender there are but sadly we're living in a culture where serious adults with degrees and multiple letters after their degrees are talking about having little children change their sex or determine anything about sex but I think there's two different issues here I think there's the there's the social component um and there's you know where where we allow children to be free to express them themselves to dress how they want to feel comfortable doing things that aren't gender typical I think that I I support and I and I think that's that's not harming anybody I think where I take issue is when it comes to the area of you know like when we talk about the social issues that's more of a parenting issue that's less of a doctor issue but when we talk about things like adding a medication or surgery that's when I get uneasy because I don't think there's a lot of science to back up transitioning kids when they're really when when pre-pubertal age I don't think there's a lot of good data to support that it's helpful and in fact it may be more harmful and so I take a lot of pause and I I'm actually I know that people feel differently and there's a lot of different perspectives but my perspective is that medicating and Performing surgeries on kids before puberty I don't I don't support it um because I I read a lot about harms there's I just read something about there's a woman that she's transgender herself and she performs surgeries and she was noticing that kids that are not that have not gone through puberty yet if they take puberty blockers they're more likely to have their sexual developments dented and they might not ever achieve orgasm in their life and there's things like when I hear messages like that it really concerns me um so I'm of the mindset that I'm very open to kids socially transitioning if they want to wear um different clothes if they want to be called something different that doesn't bother me so much because I don't think it's doing any harm but where I take a stance is is medications and surgery you know I think I I agree with you that when it comes to the hormone blockers and puberty blockers the surgeries that is the scary element of this conversation but there is another scary scary element to this conversation I think that comes before the medication part of it and that is just what our society is doing with regards to this issue I remember 30 years ago when I was a kid when we all went through these phases where you know we were vegan or we were you know punk rock with the fishnets and you know the funky chews and whatever bizarre behavior is part of being a teen and I feel like it's just what we need to do we got to push the boundaries we got to do crazy things we've got to be heard and seen and it just feels to me that we're kind of becoming conductors of the punk rock phase uh except it's a much you know more disruptive and and and possibly have irreversible damage even on kids that are not involved in it like kids are getting punished if they're not calling the boy or the girl but the way they were supposed to be called and doctors are expected to address their patients based on whatever pronouns these folks are deciding that they want to be addressed even though it's not necessarily the composition of their bodies how do we remain compassionate how do we remain understanding how do we remain supportive without eliminating all boundaries and all norms and frankly rational thought this is a great question so I think I think what I would say to that in terms of remaining compassionate I agree with you that that's the big picture is that we want to teach our kids how to be compassionate how to be kind just be nice to one another and that would solve so many problems um but in terms of the children how to raise them I honestly think the more we trust that parents know what's best the more that we leave um this to the parents to decide on how to raise their kids what to talk about I actually think the better off we are I think that there's so much societal pressure it's coming from the schools it's coming from you know the politicians and I think I do believe that most of us I do believe it's well-meaning I I am an optimist I believe that most humans are well-meaning I think parents are well-meaning and I think parents want to do the right thing but I think so much back to what we were talking about before is that parents have to trust their gut and and I think if we lean into that we'll all be better off and I think the kids will be better off so we have a friend uh that has a little boy that likes to wear his sister's girly pajamas yes uh and and sometimes the child would show up with a girly pajamas even to school and so I remember that your and my reaction was well just let them let them do what they want to do right is that something that you're seeing in your practice and just what are your thoughts on that absolutely I mean yesterday at work I saw a kid come in in a Spider-Man costume I saw a kid come in as a princess I think it's great I wish adults were a little more fun to be honest like like kids our way wish we used our imagination a little bit more um yeah I don't mind that at all I think I think that at the same time if a parent sends their child to a religious school where they have uniforms for example that's required I also think that's okay it really comes down to for me how the parent wants to parent their child if they don't mind and they want to be open to costumes and more play I think that's wonderful and and if they have to wear a soccer uniform and they can't dress a certain way then I respect that as well yeah it's funny because when I think about the friend and and the girly pajamas now this boy wants to be a cowboy and so it kind of like grew out of that phase and I mean that's like a perfectly normal thing when kids you know you know experiment and experience life you know in in their own creative way but we are kind of living in this Society where the helicopter parents feel like they have to spring into action he wants to wear a tutu let's see if maybe you know let's take him to a gender Clinic which is something that I want to ask you a little bit more about but I think there is this kind of like system where you feel like you have to propel the whole thing forward right and you know maybe just kind of like you say take a chill pill and just like take a step back yeah I think that's my answer to a lot of things in medicine that it's it's often I think the a good answer to go slow that rushing can sometimes lead to worse outcomes so when it comes to kids you absolutely let them let them dress up take a step back and see how things evolve and I I do think that the parents that rush to clinics gender clinics I do think that they're trying to do the right thing I think they just want to be accepting and open-minded um but I do agree I think the better the better approach would be to go slower so what happens most of the time so first of all I'm just curious do you have kids in your practice that are experiencing either gender dysphoria or you know transgender and if so is this a new phenomena like five years ago was it the same or the numbers increasing okay um it's a good question I think I've always had some kids that have been uh that have experienced gender dysphoria um I can think of two children in my practice that identified as transgender um in the last few years though the number has definitely increased I think we have maybe six non-binary patients and maybe another half dozen that identify as transgender and some that are you know questioning they're not sure um I do have to say though that I have not been asked by any of those patients for medications none of them have asked me about getting surgery so you know that that begs the question like how how much should we be um upset about this because again if people are just questioning and they're not sure and they're taking time to figure things out and they're not doing anything that's irreversible I think that's okay um as you pointed out teenagers often go through you know are trying to figure things out it's a tough time and so I'm sympathetic to that what happens if they come to you and say that you know they're ready to transition would you give them medication do you give the medication or do you generally send them to a gender clinic and can you tell me what is a general clinic I'm just assuming that those who go and work for gender Journey clinics are usually people who are very Pro the gender Journey transformation right like who chooses to work for those and so what what does that look like so I haven't I have not been to a gender clinic since I was in residency and I remember attending one at UCLA and it was it was really comprehensive they had um they had an endocrinologist on the team they had they had a social worker on the team they had a urologist on the team so it was really sort of a full service place for people to go that were experiencing gender dysphoria um so I I haven't been to one in a long time but from what I read um I have some questions I don't know I mean I think it's I think what's hard is as a pediatrician that is where I would send somebody because I'm not knowledgeable about hormones and treatment and that's not my expertise um but for example I just read in the Wall Street Journal yesterday they were quoting a study looking at the University of Seattle and they found that within 12 months of somebody being referred to a gender gender affirming Clinic 66 percent of patients referred were started on a hormone at what age it didn't it didn't uh I don't I don't but these are these are minors they're not you know 18 they're minors yeah right yes yeah so they're likely starting puberty blockers and all of that before I think either you're right either uh like a estrogen testosterone or a puberty blocker so and you know and that's and I think what's tricky is that we're sort of delving into territory that doesn't have great scientific data and that's that's what I'm about I want to see good data that what we're if we're going to do this um that it's helpful because I air as a physician to do less I like to you know I abide by the Mantra Do no harm and so I would hate to get I would hate to be on the wrong side of history on this one where we intervene inappropriately in something unfortunate happens that's irreversible to a kid five ten years down the line yeah I mean I know I changed my mind about all kinds of things since I was a teenager yeah yeah so it's so hard to really find yourself and know all these answers and I just again I mean sex sexuality all of those things are are these are really big big Concepts that we're settling little children or teenagers with lifelong decisions I I think about um why is it that with my kids I don't let them get married you know my my six-year-old has someone that she has a crush on in in school and um why would I not let her settle down with him at this point pointer you know my kids get my kids get temporary tattoos why is it that we don't let them get real tattoos at this point there's big decisions that I think are better are better made when you give it time I think little kids and teenagers don't always know what they want and so I tend to air on on giving things giving things time to make the best decisions there is an element that we have not talked about and and the element is there are the kids who who have the transgender dysphoria or whatever gender dysphoria that they're dealing with and I am compassionate about that but I am also a mama bear and I also care about my children and I do feel like my children are impacted frankly by the tyranny of the minority and so if I have to send my kids to Walt Disney and because of the minority that is being tyrannical over pushing this transgender princess stuff now I have to deal with explaining to my kids what is this issue of sex at age seven which I'm not ready to do and I don't want to do and I don't think it's appropriate to do and so the reason I get upset is because the majority of the population now has to frankly shove it down the throats of children who don't have to deal with these complex issues because they weren't born with those issues but I feel like as a parent I have to be forced to do it you know you feel like it's coming into your world when you're not looking it's in my world it's in my children's world and I don't want it to be in my children's world right now so why do I have to put in my children's world because there are a few kids who have this issue and so there's a difference between telling my child if there is a kid who is different from you in your class you should be nice to them you should smile at them you should have compassion there's a difference between me telling my children to do that for all all kids and all other people versus now Disney is doing transgender princess now the cover of National Geographic has uh you know a transgender child now when we go to Target there are binders uh hanging right by the socks and the underwear and like now now this is not just a matter of well there are a few minority kids who are going through you know whatever they're going through now I have to actually be saddled with and my children have to be settled with talking about sex and sexualization right and issues that I I just strongly don't feel like my kids are ready to talk about I kind of take it back too because there's no perfect answer here and because people have such different ideologies they have such different views when it comes to religion um sexuality how to raise their children I tend to think the answers more about having parents teach their children you know relying Less on the schools to do it but relying on parents to do it because I do think at the end of the day parents know best for their children I wish it was more the case where we would just leave it to the families and the individuals to you know wrestle with it and we just teach kindness all around and compassion all around without necessarily saying you know you have to live with this you have to look at it right now at age kindergarten you know we talk about the drag queens that are brought into schools and that's just like inappropriate I do have to say though my kids are in LAUSD um you know it's the second largest public school system in the country and I haven't had them come home yet with um things that they've been taught you know about gender I'm sure it will come but In fairness to LAUSD I haven't heard it yet it's the woke Rich schools that start with it first okay I think my overarching feeling is just it's we should just be leaving the kids alone yeah you know when it comes to things like gender when they're when they're younger when they're little or let's just let them be kids yeah one of the things that I talk to Deborah so about who's you know I love hernia I love her and she's written a book on this issue and spoken is that it's it's so difficult to be just a regular kid these days and the reason it's difficult is because our society is really celebrating the victim in whatever way possible and I think we've so over corrected to a point that now we pretty much give a voice only to the victim and my concern is when children are hearing that unless you're a victim you do not have a voice then they engage in what I call oppression Olympics yes and so it's like well if I'm a white male who's going to want to hear what I have to say if I'm not any sort of minority and so it seems like this like new era of gender dysphoria or sex you know sex dysphoria is almost like a way for some of these kids to feel like they can be heard or feel like you know they have some sort of identity uh in a status and we need to be careful I mean this is not a conversation as I'm saying to you as a mom we need to be careful to describe this world that we live in as a world that unless you're a victim of some sort unless you're a minority of some sort you don't have a place and you don't have to say and and that is really what worries me and when you talk about how you have an increase in kids who um who are who are experiencing you know the gender dysphoria I question whether is it that okay finally they feel comfortable to be who they want to be or is it that our society has pushed more and more kids to be that because you know it's just become part of this trend I mean I think that probably maybe there's a little bit of Truth in all of that I think there's definitely kids that are transgender definitely kids that um likely feel more comfortable now to to say how they how they feel which I think is great um when it comes to kids and you know attention seeking Behavior I I really think parenting can go a long way I really try to tell my kids you know their gender is interesting but not that interesting you know I want them to be known for their accomplishments for their interests for what they succeed at and so I really try to impress that upon my kids I get really excited if they make a cool new Lego formation or if my daughter got a good grade on a test or she studied hard and and she you know she was proud of herself at the end of that and I think that's really as a parent what I would encourage um us to do yeah I mean incidentally as you speak about it I think about how it is quite vain to really so Focus so much on like the physical you know it's it's so much of this you know gender conversation is about how people look at you right versus how you accept you right right and so right I mean I think gender is interesting to an extent but right you know there's so much more to a person so much more to a person that I would prefer to emphasize yeah so speaking of helpful tools for parents yes um one of the things we love to talk about is a video that prageru has made a few years ago called vitamin N is a vitamin no okay right and so how important it is to um sometimes tell your kids no right and so I love it it's one of my hobbies personally uh but I think you know parents forget how important it is that their role is to you know set boundaries and give love and send boundaries so I brought you a little gift that maybe you can use for your practice so I gave you a little vitamin no okay okay the next vitamin I have for you is a new vitamin that I've made up I'm the main mom vitamin B vitamin board okay all right okay and so I wanted to talk a little bit about vitamin board because I have a theory that being bored is actually really good for you I agree um I think it's good for you as an adult because it creates space for creativity absolutely uh but I think it's especially good for kids and I think kids are lacking a vitamin board and so whenever my kids complain that they're bored I'm like yes that's good for you and the reason I think being bored is really good for you is because you learn how to you know think and how to create space in your own brain and and develop ideas but also just get comfortable with yourself I agree wholeheartedly I think kids aren't bored enough when my kids tell me they're bored I just send them outside and honestly if you give it 5-10 minutes they're often making up a play or they're making a fort or they're playing creatively and I love it um I do think it's really hard because we're competing with social media and I think it's really hard for parents to avoid and I think what's so tricky with that is you know media it really activates the dopamine Pathways of your brain and it's addicting and it's hard to find something as entertaining in life when you're constantly on social or on media so I think about my kids like if they spend a lot of time on media it's really hard for me to get them to go on a hike for example it just makes the day-to-dayness less interesting so I would agree I think more kids need to be more bored yeah I think it's a good thing it's it's it's social media it's the games it's the video games I'm hearing that a lot of kids are having a really hard time falling asleep at at night because they can't just like calm down and so yes I don't know if any of the kids in your practice are dealing with that issue as well but what's your answer to parents who ask you like what do I do these will be the video games we can't eliminate it entirely because we don't want our kids to be complete outcasts right right but how do we have you know a good amount of boundaries when it comes to that so I you know I'm a big believer in quality over quantity so I try to have my kids watch the older slower moving uh old movies I think that's better for their for their brains um and I like to take breaks I think it's really really important that they're not on social on media whenever they want so in our house for example we do you know two nights a week we watch movies we're definitely not perfect they watch more than I would like but we definitely have limits but what about the video games and all of that stuff I think video games are tough we don't have video games in our house but I do think that they're I think they're addicting so I think parents just need to be aware of it I think it's a I think it's a tall order and probably an impossible ask that we don't have kids watch any media but I do think parents should be aware that they are they are addicting and it does I think detract from creativity as you pointed out yeah creativity ability to just kind of regulate self-regulate yourself and and uh I mean falling asleep finding ways to problem solve I mean where how do you how do you problem solve I mean this is something for adults how do you problem solve how do you come up with creative ways how do you get comfortable with yourself if you leave yourself no room for for you know to be in your own brain and develop thoughts I agree I I remember in high school I had this wonderful Spanish teacher named Mr dagger and I used to do my homework sometimes in his in his classroom during lunch and he would just sit there and stare and I said Mr dagger what are you what are you doing you know and he said well he goes I just like to because I'm never bored because I have my brain yeah because I'm not bored I'm just I'm I'm perfectly happy and entertained because I have my brain right and I thought about that a lot because how cool to be like that to be able to just be happy and content with yourself yeah so okay the cheapest vitamin and most valuable vitamin on the market now is vitamin board okay yeah yeah you know who else as I'm thinking who else I think about is Thomas Edison the greatest inventor of all time arguably and um I think all these inventions he invented sound and photography and the light bulb and it all came from him just you know being bored just using you know following his his creative thoughts yeah so yeah I'll prescribe this prescribe okay I have one more for you to prescribe but this one I actually think you should so the two are mostly to prescribe for kids okay though this could could go for the adults but this is for the parents so my version of vitamin C is vitamin chill pill okay vitamin chill so I'll let you talk about that one because that's the one you like to talk about oh well hopefully I say it in a nice way but not not making anybody feel bad but yeah I do think I do think it's um a lot of people are suffering from anxiety I think probably a lot has to do with with all the inputs from social media there's never there's never a break in a bad story or something to be worrying about um and so I think it's really unfortunate it's it's hard to figure out the balance on when to worry and when not to worry um and so yeah I think probably the easiest advice at first would be to um spend less time on on Twitter and spend less time on these media Outlets I think that's a really good place to start yeah and more time just with your kids right getting to know their needs and spending time with them and yeah right yeah sometimes it does the opposite right um yeah or just yeah hanging out with your kids good quality time I I personally love being outdoors I think that's a great way to relax and just sort of knowing yourself for some people it's meditation for some people it's hanging out with a good friend or going on a date with your spouse but I do think whatever it is whatever it takes to for somebody to relax I do think that's important I I think it makes your your quality of life so much better if you're not always worrying yeah well thank you so much for this conversation thank you for having me it was really fun to chat with you I hope this has been helpful to our audience I know many of them have kids many of them want to have kids and we just want to have more rational parents around and that's why I wanted to have this real talk conversation with you so thanks a bunch thank you thank you for having me