The Candace Owens Show: Mike Cernovich | Candace Owens Show

We're not afraid to kind of push the envelope, you know. All right. We're ready. Oh, my God, my camera's different. Hey, you got a little screen. Yeah. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we are rolling into another episode of the Candace Owens show. Riddle me this one. There was a firestorm when the media realized that Donald Trump was drinking a lot of Diet Cokes daily. Millions upon millions of articles covering his health, his potential obesity and whether or not him eating McDonald's and Diet Coke was conducive to the lifestyle and the position of being the president of the United States. It was a complete media frenzy. Now, fast forward to today, and we have pictures that have emerged of Bill Clinton on the Lolita Express of Jeffrey Epstein. We have eyewitness accounts placing him on an island, which we know had pedophilic instances take place. And the media is virtually silent. In fact, when I tweeted about this, when I tweeted about the picture of Bill Clinton, I actually had a reporter from the White House tell me that this was not interesting because it happened a couple of years ago. So pedophilia, potential potentially pedophilia is not interesting if it happened more than two years ago, even if it has something to do with a former president of the United States. I think this circumstance with Jeffrey Epstein, with Ghislaine Maxwell and with their accuser, Virginia Gouffrey, is one of the most important things that we should be discussing today, not only because the media is ignoring it, but because of the societal implications when we are talking about young children that can be victimized and have nobody in the media give them a voice, have nobody believe them. By high powered individuals, people with access, the government agency censoring. I have wanted to do this episode for a really long time. In fact, we shot it in a most untimely manner right before Jeffrey Epstein did or did not kill himself. And I'm really excited to have this guest back. Mike Cernovich, welcome to the Candace Owen show. Thank you. Yeah, I noticed, too, that when the pictures of Bill Clinton and the massage surfaced, it was the same day of the DNC. The idea that there was not a news hook to that, completely absurd. And then, of course, you'd watch Bill Clinton's name trend on Twitter. The New York Times did a puff piece to stuff the hashtag. Right. And the and the articles were, oh, is Bill Clinton back? The kid's back to come back, kid. And I'm here pulling my hair out. I like my hair too much to pull it out. But wanting to pull my hair out because stuff like that really does trigger me because it's one thing to say, well, the media is not fair. They're mean to me, but they're not mean to this other guy. A lot of that self-pitying. But this is truly evil conduct. And the media will protect and cover up this kind of conduct when it involves, of course, Democrats. Right. So I want to do is I actually want to go all the way back because you play a very big piece in this. And the media gave you absolutely no credit for the work that you did. So just my audience is aware you are a lawyer. You are a documentary filmmaker. You actually have a documentary film coming out, which is called Epstein. And you got involved in this case in 2017. You filed a motion to intervene and a motion to unseal documents that were related to Virginia Roberts and the Galen or the Galen is how you actually say her name defamation suit. So let's just start with that. What made you think before this all blew up? Jeffrey Epstein's walking around free. Galen is not, you know, nothing. There's no press. Nobody's interested in what's going on with her. And suddenly everything explodes because you decide to file this. Take us through that. Right. So around, oh, 2017, my lawyer hit me up and said, there's this open records lawsuit involving Jeffrey Epstein. Do you want to get involved in the case? And I thought, sure, sounds interesting. But I thought it would be a little a little thread. So for people who aren't familiar with the full back story, and it's complicated even for me as a lawyer to follow is that I've actually done a lot of constitutional litigation, common law stuff, went to law school. And I don't mention I'm a lawyer usually because then people be like, I have a legal question on Twitter. It's like, no, no, I'm not going to do that. But it was a perfect little in a way, a hobby horse. I was a cool little First Amendment issue. Probably won't cost me that much money. Maybe we'll get something. Maybe we won't. So I filed the lawsuit involved Virginia Gouffrey and Ghislaine Maxwell. And what happened was Ghislaine Maxwell was accused of Virginia Gouffrey of being involved with Jeffrey Epstein. Ghislaine Maxwell said this is an outright lie. This person's a liar. This person's a fraud. So then Virginia Roberts sued Maxwell for defamation, which as a sidebar, those are hard cases to make. But the judge let it go forward. We look, we want to say, well, I wonder what's in it. Because when you have a lawsuit of that nature, there's something called discovery and depositions and interrogatories and emails and everything like that. It's kind of a backdoor way to get the Jeffrey Epstein files. So we noticed that when we looked at the file, everything was redacted. Black boxes, every motion was redacted, every response was redacted. This is not the way public court is supposed to be. So we figured this is a back exit to get Epstein records that you couldn't otherwise get. So we move to intervene, move to unseal. The judge denies our motion. We appeal it before the Second Circuit. We're in a limbo. Meanwhile, as you know, I don't have a problem talking about what I'm into. And every reporter ignored it. It's like, no, this is you guys, you know, if I tweet something, they'll have a lot to say. They ignored it. Politico finally wrote a piece about it, and it was obscure. So this case was completely buried by the media. I thought that was the end of it. Suddenly, the Miami Herald and Julie Brown really started reporting this story aggressively in about 2018. And then they filed their own motion to intervene and motion to unseal, similar to the one I filed. They joined, essentially joined my lawsuit, and we all got clamped into one. Now, what's interesting about this is there's many things interesting about it. What's interesting about it, though, is the media didn't care when the Miami Herald initially tried to unseal the records. They also didn't report it. But once it got word to CNN and Jake Taper and all these people that Alexander Acosta, who was then Secretary of Labor for Donald Trump, was the prosecutor who approved the original Epstein criminal deal, now they care because we have the orange man bad. Can't believe it. Meanwhile, these same people ignore the fact that Alexander Acosta was confirmed by the Senate. So it's not like Democrats in the Senate were grilling this guy about it. He was flying completely on the radar. But then these people, like Jake Taper, said, we have a way to go after the orange man, so let's pretend to care about abuse victims as a way to go after the orange man. So that's when you can see on Google Trend, completely spikes. It's a huge, huge story that happened between 2018, 2019. And then the whole thing just blew up and took me on a ride that I certainly wasn't prepared for. Right, exactly. So you get these documents and suddenly they are released. And what happens from there? How do we end up from these documents being released to Jeffrey Epstein is in a prison cell? Why wasn't he put in a prison cell before these documents were released? And why did they go through such extreme measures to redact every single piece of this court case, which is unusual? Yeah, everything about the Jeffrey Epstein case, if you're a lawyer, you're just saying that's just not how it works. It would be like if I came here to do a podcast with you and I told you, oh, yeah, I don't use microphones and recording a podcast. You wouldn't even really know how to answer that. You would just be like, I don't even know what to say here. That's just the way you do it. That's how this is. You don't just redact everybody's name in a civil court lawsuit in a public federal court. That's just not how it's done. Jeffrey Epstein doesn't just get to run an international sex trafficking ring and plead guilty to a prostitution related offense because you can't have prostitution with an underage woman. That's always rape. It's always pedophilia. It's always statutory rape. And you don't get to do this work release thing where you get to leave at whatever, nine in the morning and come back at seven at night and just sort of sleep in your own private jail cell. None. You don't get to do any of this. And yet everything. I want to go over that in case people don't realize this. So he had worked out some deal where he was able to essentially go home and sleep in or spend the day free to roam around in Florida. Correct. Work release. Work release all day and then just basically sleep in an isolated cell to serve his sentence. Right. Nine months or so for prostitution. Right. They let him plead to prostitution rather than this underage stuff. And we didn't learn all this, of course, till years later. We also didn't learn that when he moved to New York, the New York prosecuting authorities gave him a pass. He should have to register as the most dangerous sex offender because it involved underage minors. So basically the way it works is this. If, and I don't mean to sound glib, but I'm just saying this how the laws. If you did one kind of form of sexual assault, you might be less violent than a child predator. You would get, you know, level one, two, three, four ranking. Like how dangerous are you? The community. So with Epstein, because it involved underage victims, he should have had the highest classification. He went into court and said, I think I should get a lower classification. And the reason that matters is because you can't live near a school zone. If you have a certain classification, you can't go certain places. Your travels are restricted and Democrats, Democrat run, not to make it partisan necessarily, but they were Democrats controlling New York. Democrat prosecutor said, sure, buddy, no, no problem. You're not a violent, dangerous sex offender. So they gave him a pass on that, which again, never happens. So everywhere you look, he's getting a free pass for all of this. Media just doesn't really care. And that was a criminal case. So unfortunately, there's no way to get the criminal records of Jeffrey Epstein that led to all that shenanigans way back in 2008, 2009, 2010. But the civil lawsuit was the way around then to get there. So we think, great, great. We got the civil records. We have everything now. No, redact, redact, redact, redact, name redacted. All these redactions now are still contained in the files. So we're actually still in court with the Miami Herald to get more redactions. So what started off, I don't want to call it Don Quixote because we did get some results. But what started off was I thought, oh, this will be an interesting First Amendment issue. Maybe we'll pull on a thread and get some good information that I can write a story on. And that was my thought at the time. In hindsight, I chance made all this pot. In hindsight, I look like, oh, I was such a visionary. And boy, I really pushed it. It's like, no, I just thought it would be a little thing that we could get. And I could get a few articles and write out of it. But I wasn't expecting next thing you know, Jeffrey Epstein. Because what happened is the federal court judge, lower court judge rules against me, rules against Miami Herald. We go on appeal. The Second Circuit Court of Appeals signals that they're going to unseal the files. Lo and behold, then Jeffrey Epstein is indicted for a criminal case. But he could have been indicted for other conduct that he didn't get a waiver for the last time. So the reason this is confusing, and even as I explain it, I live it, I'm thinking this is really freaking confusing, is that Jeffrey Epstein faced criminal charge one, got the pass. Everything worked great. Everything was fine. We, we being Julie Brown, who to her credit, the Miami Herald, even the publisher of the Miami Herald on Twitter has said, we had always given Cernovich credit. They credit me in every article. It's all these other media people who deliberately write me out of the story. So all credit to Julie Brown and the Miami Herald. So Jeffrey Epstein, criminal case one, he gets a pass. We move, the Miami Herald, me move to get these records and a civil case in order to call attention to the Epstein stuff. Then criminal case number two is brought against Jeffrey Epstein, right as the court is about to unseal everything, because then the SDNY realizes that gig is up. We can't cover this up anymore. We better get him on air. We better get him in jail before these other files are made public. And then they arrest him as he's landing in his private jet. But we don't get the perp walk that we got with Roger Stone. We don't get any pictures of it. They just arrest him like a gentleman, which is pretty nice. Very nice. He was treated very nicely. And I will also say, when you look at all of the images of him, he seems remarkably smug, right? He seems comfortable. He doesn't seem like he seems like he knows he's not really going to get in trouble. There's a quiet confidence in everything that he does. And I found that to be very interesting. So I'll ask you this question. When you're talking about underage girls, when you're talking about prostitution, why on earth would the SDNY be working to cover for this man? Because it has to be an intelligence operation. He had to be a government asset. There's no rich people don't get away with that kind of stuff. That's what I'm saying. It's not like you have a certain amount of money and suddenly you're allowed to start raping children. Right. And he ran an operation for years and years and years. So it isn't money can get you out of a lot of things. That's for sure. But anytime underage people are involved. No, no, no, no, no. And the FBI, as we didn't learn until these latest transfer files, they closed the investigation early. These women are emailing the FBI trying to talk to them. The FBI completely stonewalls them. This is the kind of thing that goes right. And Alexander Acosta hinted at that one time where they asked about the plea deal. And he said, well, it was way over my head. That's very interesting. So what sort of and I've seen these things online of people saying that this was, you came from the tippity top, Alex Azar being one of them. I mean, what do you think? I mean, and by the way, we're guessing here. So this is totally not a fact. But what do you think? What sort of a position would you have to be in for them to say, you know what? Even though you've got this weird habit of flying underage girls to a private island, we're going to let this fly because you're such an asset to us. What position could he have possibly been in where that would have been OK? Right. So before we go into theories, conspiracy theories, this is speculating. I mean, it's not conspiracy. We're not saying this is true. This is just like. But let's start with the facts before we even have to. All you have to do is show people the facts. Jeffrey Epstein had everything wired. Fact. Jeffrey Epstein in these indictments that were later revealed had videotapes of people engaged in sexual conduct. That's just a fact. This isn't we're not even we're not even the theory point. We're not even that maybe he could be this other thing. Fact. There is a huge vault in his island in Little St. James containing information that he would not let anyone else near. That's a fact. The vaults kind of disappeared from public consciousness. People don't really talk about it, but you can go find all the information like that. Fact. I don't care how rich you are. You don't get away with the kind of things that he gets away with. Right. It's literally just not how the system has worked. So when you say, OK, so he had videos of people. In compromising situations. All the stuff. Right. He gets away with things that he shouldn't get away with. Alexander Acosta says this was way over my head. Negotiating. You're not jumping. Yeah. You're not jumping across the Grand Canyon to be like the FBI, the CIA did it. Right. This isn't that much of an inferential leap. You realize it had to have been some kind of intelligence thing. Now, a lot of people want to go, oh, Masaad, because Masaad is just like boogeyman. And I was like, well, our own CIA wouldn't be on this, too. Right. Yeah. That's so dumb. Right. As if people because everyone's like Masaad. You don't even know Masaad. Masaad is the thing that you know exists. So if we make a really even bigger jump, I would say that Epstein was with the black ops stuff that we don't even have a name for. Yeah. It's not the CIA. It's not the whatever. It's just some thing that we're not even allowed to really know about. Right. Because nothing else really makes sense within the context of how the case went. Right. And even when they charged him, for example, the SDNY charged him, it was a very narrow set of charges. They charged him with getting massages from girls for hundreds of dollars. And as I'm reading this, I go to this press conference, SDNY press conference, the United States Attorney Berman's up there. We have Jeffrey Epstein, and he's really trying to put on this tough guy act. As if they were trying to get him and not that they were forced to basically get him because of this filing. Yeah. Because of Julie Brown and me. Right. So I'm like, well, I'm a lawyer. I'll just read the indictment. And I'm waiting for the goods. I'm waiting for the juicy stuff. I'm waiting for the he flew people internationally. Man Act violation, human trafficking. No, no, no, no. It's he paid underage girls, 15 and 16 year old girls to give him a massage. And I'm like, wow, this is so when I read that, I said, this is a scam. This is literally a containment operation to make it look like you're doing something to Epstein. And the media was happy to carry the water. But what I kept asking you, nobody would answer. There's this law called the Man Act. I know it because of the boxer. Yes, the one that Trump pardoned. Exactly. Yeah, Jack. Jack Johnson was the was the boxer. That's correct. They got him on that. Right. You literally cannot transport somebody that is underage. Right. Over state lines. For illicit purposes, sexual purposes. Right. So even if, you know, say, for example, Las Vegas, the age of consent in Nevada, 16, the age of consent in California is 18. So if you said, oh, you're 17, fly to Vegas and meet me. You're literally now a human trafficker under the law or the Man Act. So that's how strict the Man Act is. It's like you can't even move somebody to where it's legal. You're done. Game over. And Jeffrey Epstein was never charged with the Man Act, even though he traveled internationally. He had a place in the Virgin Islands, St. James Island. He had that place in New Mexico. He had that other place in New York. He had a place in Paris. And he's flying all over the world on a private jet. But he's never charged with the Man Act or human trafficking. So when I read this, I said, okay, this is a scam. I called it a containment operation. And by that, I mean, if you do nothing and you're the SDNY, the gig is up. Game over. But if you indict him on something, most people aren't lawyers with this level of sophistication. Won't be able to read it. Won't understand the documents. Will just say, well, they're doing the right thing and not understand that they're actually fundamentally doing nothing. I talk about this the whole time, even with Black Lives Matter cases that make no sense when they up certain charges and you're like, you're not going to get them on this charge. It doesn't make sense to up this from manslaughter to second degree murder. And because there is this ignorance, I think Scott Adams actually caused this, like the non-expert problem. When you're not an expert, so you don't have the information to be able to accurately assess what's happening. And this is exactly what they're doing with Jeffrey Epstein. We are like, well, something's happening. He's been arrested. But you're saying that you look to this, you're a lawyer, you read these documents and you're going, actually, we're just going to say, you know, you can't. There's a girl you gave him a massage. She's 15 years old and you got a massage and that's poo-poo on you. Right. I mean, that is ridiculous. Right. And they know the media is going to cover it up too. So nobody in the media was putting the heat on. Like, this is nothing. Literally, you read this and you're like, this is maybe five years prison, maybe five years. And that's why the idea that Jeffrey Epstein, who anybody who's met him has told you he's not really human in the sense of he's just a cold-blooded sociopath. Right. So you and I, like right now, if somebody kicked in the door and pointed a gun at us, we'd be like, oh, we'd be a little startled. A true sociopath with Epstein doesn't have a fear response. So that's why when I said every image, he sort of looks like he was confident and calm. And I was like, what is this? Right. It's physiological. Sociopath of that nature doesn't have the fear response that other people have. They're literally wired differently. So the idea that Jeffrey Epstein is sitting in a cell, oh, I'm so afraid what's going to happen. The dude's got, he's sitting in a cell thinking, I have $500 million, which, by the way, we don't know where that came from. I have $500 million, compromising material on everybody, including Bill Clinton, and gosh knows who else. Oh, yeah, I'm going to kill myself. Yeah. Wait, you know what? Go back to what you just said, because that's actually very interesting. Jeffrey Epstein had $500 million, and we don't know what his source of income was. No, we don't know who his private broker was. We don't know who any of his people who did the trades were. We don't know who worked for him in his hedge fund. It was very much like Bernie Madoff. So Bernie Madoff for years was this great trader, and anybody who would look into it would go, well, I mean, it goes back to, again, if I came in here and I said, I don't use a microphone for a podcast, you would just say, like, okay, you're not. There's something wrong with you, right? Right. So if you're managing $500 million, you're going to have a research analyst. You're going to have multiple analysts, and they're going to do investment advice for you. You're going to have a whole floor of traders. You're going to have what's called a prime broker who gets you your money, and you're going to have a market maker who sends up the trades, and you're going to have just a Bloomberg terminal. You're going to have all these things. Madoff didn't have any of that. People are like, well, that's the same thing with Epstein. He didn't have any of those things that you would have, because it isn't like $500 million. You just pick up the phone to E-Trade. Hey, bro, I want to move $100 million in Apple stock. It just doesn't work that way. So where did he get his money? We don't know. We still don't know. Did he pay his taxes? What are his tax returns? You name it. Right, right. It's unusual. Why was he charged with money laundering? Well, just to use an example, there's this Build the Wall thing, and the SDNY is trying to make a money laundering case against a few people because they said that they paid themselves through a shell corporation and everything else. And we're not going to get into that, but we're just going to say the SDNY literally is trying to indict a disabled veteran for money laundering involving Build the Wall. The amount's like $100,000. Yeah, $350,000 they claim at most. And you're like, okay, well, if that's how you want to play, where's the money launder for Jeffrey Epstein? Because you know he had cases of cash. You know he was making large cash transactions to pay his people. The money just didn't come from nowhere. He wasn't putting it on his credit card. So why was he charged with money laundering? Why weren't the banks that facilitated those transactions charged with money laundering? So everywhere you look, I always tell people, I was on a Sherlock Holmes book kick. I read all this stuff years ago, and one of the archetypes or metaphors that evolved is called The Dog That Didn't Bark. And I don't feel bad spoiling the book for people that's over 150 years old. But there's a mystery, and you're always like, well, how do we know who did it? And then at the very end, you get these revelations. Well, the one story, they're like, well, how do we know who broke in? And they said, well, the dog didn't bark. The only reason the dog wouldn't have barked is because it was the owner who did it. And so what I'm always looking for in these kind of cases and detective work, it's not what they show me. I'm like, what dog isn't barking? What are they not showing? OK, so with Epstein, they're not showing me a Mann Act violation. They're not showing me a money laundering violation. They're not showing me a conspiracy between Epstein and other people. These are the things that you would show me. And I can just go look at that build-the-wall indictment and be like, this is what an aggressive prosecution looks like, because I'm not here to defend them or attack them. I'm just saying the SDNY is like, we're going to war over $350,000. Yeah, relative to like me, who I've been asking, where does Black Lives Matter money go? That's like a billion dollars that's gone missing into a black hole. Do a little investigation there. And they're like, no, this year. And it just happened last year. They didn't wait years. I mean, they were like, you know, I agree. It was very aggressive. To say the least, I don't have a horse in the race, but it was aggressive. And then you have something like this, and it's much more money. Right. And they're just sort of like, you know. And the behavior is more reprehensible. Right. 100%. That's high value with this. It's like, OK, at worst, they're saying Colfage paid himself under the table when he said he wouldn't, but like the donors didn't even care. So you're like, OK, well, I mean, I guess technically, if you're going to go that way, you're just aggressive. Your pitbulls may understand. You're like, OK, but here's a guy who trafficked underage people across the world and across the country and involved large amounts of cash. And you didn't indict Epstein for any of that. Right. That's what I look at. And that tells you all you need to hear is that if you're the SDNY, you're going to protect Democrats at all costs. And you're going to try to just completely blow up people with the criminal case for behavior that's just not even like if you're talking what Colfage is alleged to have done, you're talking like, if it's true, I would say I don't think that's a good thing. I think you use apologies like I'm not happy. You deserve a tongue lashing, so to speak. You deserve maybe a civil penalty. But with Epstein, you're like, this is evil. This is, you know, the only thing that would make it from a nine or a 10 is like, well, were the people 17 or were they four? But you're like, I don't know if you're a 10 evil or a nine evil. Right. But you just weigh up there. But then you look how the SDNY treated it. It's like, ah, we'll do some namby pamby one prosecution for them. But we're going to throw 10. We're going to throw a hellfire down on these built wall people. Right. You see that as a lawyer. You're like, yeah, you're in on weird. You're in on it. And now I want to actually go back to just the psychology of Jeffrey Epstein and kind of get into his character profile as well as Glyn, Ghislaine, Ghislaine. Ghislaine, we've heard it all. Yeah, we've heard it all. I think I think it's Ghislaine. So first and foremost, I remember them pulling, I mean, paintings of Bill Clinton, who was a friend of his, wearing a dress, posing seductively over a chair. That's a weird piece. I got tons of friends, no pieces of art of grown men dressed as it's just a little perverted and it's a bit weird. Right. I know that he also had artwork where he had fully naked his madame Ghislaine fully naked in some of his in some of his homes. What's going on here? Let's just talk about what you know about things that were found in his home and why no one seems to be talking about this. Yeah, the the funny thing about that picture of Bill Clinton you mentioned is there are things you see on the Internet. You're like that. That's fake. I have to source this. And you're like, no way. Is that real? That's everything you hear about Epstein. You're thinking, yes, he can't possibly have this. And of course, he has it. And then I know from other people, he had a chess set and he would have nude girls as the pawns on his chess set. And they need to have people who worked for him who are other pieces of the chess board with, say, Ghislaine being the queen. And it's a deviant person. So what I believe is that in terms of persuasion, he's running people through like a compliance test. So if I walked into your house and I saw like a naked picture of you, I'd be like, well, this is kind of weird. You know, I'm not sure I feel comfortable here. Not sure I'm going to come back here kind of deal. And if I saw a naked picture of someone we knew, I'd be like, all right, you know, just fives off, you know, all good. But the people who stay, that's that's how you're screening people. So if you walk into Epstein and you walk into a house and you see a chess set with little girls on a pawn board, you're like, OK, this guy's probably a pedo or something. I'm getting the frick out of here. Right. But if you're a pedo or you don't care that someone's a pedo, now you're in. So you pass that. And he would just gradually escalate things to find out who at the end would wash out and be be evil with them, which is, to be quite frank, sophisticated and also effective. Right. Right away, people who would be like, I'm going to have a problem. You don't come back, come back in a way that's the best way to get rid of people is you bring them into your house and they're like, OK, I'm I'm I'm out of here, dude. This is way too, way too weird. Good. He didn't want you there anyway. He only wants the people there. Sadistic. Yeah, exactly. Another layer. So then let's talk about Galen Maxwell. What's up with her? I mean, what's up with her? You heard, you know, former not bodyguards, former housekeepers, butlers have spoken out and said they were responsible for putting dildos and sexual objects and putting it back into her room. So we know that she's got this complex and that she was the person who tested, put these young girls on a test run and make them give her massages, would have performed sexual acts on her, you know, allegedly. And what's going on with her? Sure. So the way it's set up is that the if you're just I don't care how rich you are as a man, 55 year old man, I think Epstein at the time, 45, 50, you're not just going to go up to a 16 year old girl, 16 year old girl, be like, hey, you want to get in my car kind of deal. So you need the following conditions. One is you need broken homes. And this is why it drives people nuts. But this is why I say the left wants to break up homes because it creates more victims. We see it, for example, with the Conway girl who's 15 years old. And we have people in their 30s, men and women saying, yeah, leave your parents. And I'm like, you're a groomer. You're telling a 15 year old girl to leave her mom and her dad. What is wrong with you? Right. But that's the left. They want to break up homes because why? Now you have a more vulnerable population. So most of these girls are 14, 15, 16, you know, grow up in a little bit of poverty, don't really have any money, don't have a lot of family guidance. They're kind of like lost souls. And then, you know, this friendly woman comes in. Oh, hey, how are you? You know, she didn't sound that friendly, though. Well, when she would groom them, she was right. No, no. So all of this, again, the grooming process is always about you start friendly. So you find, you know, Glane goes in. She's friendly. Oh, how are you doing? How's life? How's school? Oh, you can't afford a prom dress. Yeah, well, you know, let me help you out here. I'm your friend. I mean, let's get coffee. Let's talk about life there. That's that process of grooming them in. And then you bring them over. And if someone freaks out, then you just don't bring that person back. And then if a person's kind of comfortable, then they keep pushing the boundaries. This is actually quite common. I was involved in a lawsuit against a very, I don't know if he was a billionaire, but he was pretty close. And he would fly out au pairs under the pretense that they were going to be au pairs with children. Then they kind of land there and he'd have a woman take them out shopping. And then they would be kind of saying, well, who would be comfortable coming back? Do you like this guy? So you always have to have that woman front man to again, because you're grooming them. You're not just saying, hey, I'm 55. Come over my house. Here's a few hundred bucks kind of deal. The woman's bringing them in, making, they'll feel comfortable saying, and the next thing, you know, they're completely lost where they are. I mean, that's how hell is right. Seeing as Lewis and others talk about it, hell's a gentle slope. That's how grooming is. It's a very gentle slope, a very meticulous process that Ghislaine Maxwell took them through. And that's why in many ways, she was probably the worst actor in all of this, because without her, there's no Epstein. That's right. That's the person who went to these people. Yeah. And you think back to, you know, you didn't grow up with money. I didn't grow up with money. $500 is like so much money. A lot of money. Even now, like $500 is a lot of money to me, but it's just like, wow, you're 15 years old. Imagine you're 15. You can't afford to have a car. You can't afford to hang out with your girlfriends. You can't get a dress for prom for the dances or whatever. You just have nothing. And then this nice moment's like, oh, you know, just come over. Let me buy you things. Softens you up a little bit. Next thing you know, you're like, how did I get here? Everybody who ends up in a bad situation, and I don't want to compare this to drug addiction, only in the sense that nobody is like shaking the chills and they feel like they're going to die because that's where they started. You always start with, oh, just take a pill or just do this. And then you're like, I didn't know it was going to lead to this. Right. And that's how the grooming process works. And that's why it is so sadistic. Yeah. I do think, you know, the allegations that are against her and based on everything that I've read, I do find her to be the most despicable character in all of this. So let me ask you a question. How does this end for her? How does it end for her? Because she's got knowledge. And knowledge is power. And so you can say what you want about Jeffrey. I've seen there are people who are fully in the camp of who didn't kill himself. Some people believe he 100% killed himself and has been blown out of proportion. But, you know, it means nothing because she was along for the entire ride. So she's got all the same knowledge, you know, that he has of who was on that island, who was doing what. How does it end for her? Yeah, my belief is that they're keeping her in solitary confinement and that drives people insane. So I think that they're just going to drag the case out and hopefully she loses her mind and then they don't have to deal with it. But right now they are in a predicament. They being the SDNY, they being the powers that be, Department of Justice, FBI, they don't want her to talk to the public. So they're like, we got to keep her in solitary confinement for her safety, which I think is just an amazing Kafka trap, which is to say, well, we have to keep Ghislaine Maxwell in custody because Jeffrey Epstein killed himself under our watch. And you're like, that reminds me of the book Catch-22 where your mind is like, no, no, you're like, you're the incompetent people. She should be under house arrest or something like that. Like you people obviously are up to something. So my belief is they're going to drag this on as long as they can, deny her visitation. They're monitoring it even with support. They're monitoring all of her conversations with her lawyer. So they're hoping to just drive her crazy by keeping her in solitary confinement. That deals with the problem. If that doesn't work, they'll have to come up with another trick. But this is not, again, because I read the Maxwell indictment. They didn't charge her with these massive conspiracies. They're not charging her with the Mann Act. They're not charging her with the men who were on the planes with them, that we all know that were on the planes with them. Nothing like that. Again, even in indicting Maxwell, it was another containment operation. And what about Bill Clinton? Couldn't he be charged with the Mann Act? Well, Bill Clinton is an interesting case because we know that he was on the flights and he's identified. There's certainly enough evidence to open an investigation, but no. Instead he's speaking at the DNC. Studies at the DNC the same night these massage pictures hit and were the conspiracy theorists because we're like, why is this not a deal? And I love too how the media people say, well, there's no news hook. He's speaking at the DNC. I can guarantee you that if I spoke at the RNC, they would be talking about tweets from 20 years ago. They would be like, well, we can't talk about these old things. You know the game. Yeah. So the idea that it's not newsworthy is a lie. And we're talking about underage girls. We're talking about sex trafficking. We're talking about prostitution. We're talking about pedophilia. I just want to know, when does that expire in journalists' minds as being newsworthy? I was floored when that White House reporter came back and said, this is two years old. We don't care. It's never going to fetch Gretchen. I think essentially what he tweeted at me before he blocked me because I was like, please let me know when pedophilia is fetched, when it becomes relevant, when a former president of the United States, his name is in the middle of a circumstance regarding underage girls. Let me know when that's cool. And I'm just curious, has there not been any action filed against Bill Clinton? And there's plenty of evidence. He certainly has not issued any statements disputing the fact that he was on this plane, unless I'm confused. He claims he was on the plane for a charity event. That's the Bill Gates defense. That's all. They're all defense. We were on the plane to help starving kids in Africa. You get a massage. But we never, yeah, we just, you know, you're a little tight at the airport, you know, shoulders up and up. So the Clinton, the Gates defense is always, we were there just to help poor kids in Africa, which raises another question why these people are always going to Haiti and Africa and other places where highly sex trafficked areas. You're like, okay, guys, what do you know? That raises more questions. But we were never at the island, but we just travel with him because we thought he was a philanthropist. And that was that. It's like, well, Secret Service never ran Epstein's name through any kind of system. Oh, Bill, travel without Secret Service. What a quinky dink. But that's their official story. We were never at the island. But Bill Clinton was on the manifesto to the island. I thought he was one of the names that was like confirmed. He was on the plane, but he was on the flight manifest. But there's some dispute as to whether the plane landed on the island or not. But Virginia Gouffre testified under oath that Bill Clinton was on the island. Right. Wouldn't he be suing her for defamation of character? It wasn't true. Your former president, wouldn't that be a pretty easy slam dunk, sue for defamation of character and prove that it wasn't true? Yeah, he definitely doesn't want to open that. Right. Exactly. Which is interesting because I would if I was ever accused of something as heinous, not only would I be suing the person who accused me of it, I would sue any media people that reported it, you know, because that's all you have when you're talking about young children and young girls and underage sex. You I mean, you should be fighting this tooth and nail. And he seems to be like, let you know, let the press just provide a cover for me. And I'm not going to go into it. Well, that's that's the right tactic if you're guilty. Right. That's the right tactic if you're guilty. That's the right tactic. And another sort of dog that didn't bark, too, is who released those pictures? The media who has those pictures? What what was that? All right. That that's what that's how you you can lose your mind going down rabbit holes with this stuff is like those pictures didn't just appear magically. Someone sent them. They sent him on the day that he was going to be at the DNC. And was that not just a message to Bill Clinton, but to a bunch of other people that we do have these pictures? Who was that? And then, of course, there was that one that blew my mind was when there was confusion as to where Ghislaine Maxwell was, that picture of her holding a book, The Secret Lives of CIA People or something. Right. And in and out that gets published. And then you find out that picture was actually two years old. So she like took this as insurance. It is the most creative spy novel, spy movie that you could ever write. But it's real life. So now you're like, I wonder what that picture was about and who sent this picture to Bill? What message are they sending? The whole thing, again, is endlessly fascinating. And we still have not seen not everything has been unredacted. No, we're still in court with the Miami Herald. I think the oral argument is in October to get this big deposition. So we got this huge batch of files a month or two ago, and that was the second batch. So we had a first batch. The first batch was going to be released, and that's when they indict Epstein. Epstein dies. We have the second batch. But within the second batch, the most important document is then Virginia Roberts, her deposition. And the deposition is like, I went to whatever after party in Hollywood with blank, blank, blank, blank, and it's blacked out. There's no reason this should be blacked out. None at all. It's a deposition. But for whatever reason it is. The Miami Herald is pushing that they want it, and I'm pushing it. So I'm still in court. So whenever people say, why don't you just do more? You're always like, OK, I mean, I started in January 2017. It's 2020, August, and I'm going to be in this case at least until January 2021. So four years later, that's really how long it takes to drag this out. And then the flip side is when you're the person really breaking through the door and making it happen, I don't expect a trophy. This is about pedophiles. This is about fighting darkness. This is about Christianity and goodness and light and God and everything. But then you see these little people who cover this up and lie to try to keep me out of it. And that shows, again, the scam. Because they'll literally say Miami Herald mentions me in every article. They'll read the Miami Herald article and just snip my little name off of there. That's, again, because they're protecting. They're protecting the network still. There's no question. Her name was Amy Roback, remember? She was the big ABC one who said that she was made to sit on the story of Jeffrey Epstein for years. She said she had the story for a long time, and the executives told her, no, no, no, no, we don't want to publish it. So he's been protected for a very long time. And they fired the girl who they alleged gave the tape to us. So this is why I think, too, what's great about journalism. So Project Veritas breaks open that big video, goes huge. Rather than ABC say, how did this story get killed? This is terrible. They instead said, oh, we think that this girl who used to work for us and then worked at CBS leaked it. So then they called her bosses, and then she got fired, even though there's no proof that she leaked it. She was a cover up on top of a cover up. Yeah, you're like, bro, how about you investigate who killed the story? Right. Versus the news. You ruined some 28-year-old girl's life and destroyed her career because she did the right thing. But that, again, shows the cover up. That shows the complicity. Every time you look, you see them covering it up. You see them protecting them. You saw, of course, there was even when Cindy McCain said, oh, everybody knew about Epstein. And you're like, they did? This is news to me. They're so glib about it. Oh, yeah, it does remind me of, I don't know who, I was probably dating someone, but I watched the Hunger Games. And you see people like Cindy McCain, and you're really like, oh, yeah, those are the people from the Hunger Games. The people in D.C. with all the wealth and the riches and everything. Oh, yeah, everybody knew about Epstein. Blase, blase. And you're thinking, what has happened to your morality? I can understand a lot of things. I'm a very forgiving person because people have forgiven me. But that isn't Jeffrey Epstein. That's not something to be like, oh, we all just knew. And people are like that or in plain sight. Well, how about no? Right. How about you actually become outraged about that versus the orange man tweeted a joke that he wants to be president for 12 more years? Or that he's drinking Diet Coke. Yeah, 12 Diet Cokes a day. Jokes he's made. That's what they want to get outraged on. So there's just no question that the media is still complicit. Entirely immoral, in my opinion. And I think this is why there is such a necessary space for independent journalists. This is why we're seeing this push now from the mainstream journalists to shut down independent voices, you know, to make sure from Facebook, from Twitter to get rid of these accounts because they want to once again control the narrative. They want to once again be able, you know, to go to Americans and say, this guy right here, the enemy for drinking Diet Cokes. That's what you need to be concerned about. This guy over here, you know, mix up pedophilia and sex trafficking. You can ignore that. And that's a scary, dangerous place to be. And that's why I wanted to do this episode, because people we should be following this case. This is a very big case, a very big cover up. The media is complicit in this. The higher ups are complicit in this. The SDNY is complicit in this. This is not something that we can allow people to just ignore. Mike, thank you so much for coming on the show. We wrap every episode by allowing you to leave a two minute voicemail or face face mail face message with the world. And I just I mean, I think just kind of really want to hear from your heart why this is so important, even though you sort of stumbled into it accidentally and now it's grown bigger than you and larger than life. Why is this important? Why now? Why today? I'm going to introduce you on your mark. Get set world. I give you Mike Cernovich. In a world of victimization and people who make themselves victims, there's one group that is truly marginalized and no one cares about. And that's children. It's abused children. It's the victims of sex trafficking. It's a victim of pedophiles that they don't have a voice. There's no one marching for them. There's no one writing for them. If people want to riot and you wanted to write over Jeffrey Epstein, I might actually say I'm OK with writing an SDNY because of Jeffrey Epstein. But to write over what? To write over criminals, to write over people with violent records. In some cases, writing over people who have abused children because that gets written out of the story. So there are actually victims in this world. There are people who can't speak for themselves. And that's the children. And that's where people of good character and good conscience should focus their time and efforts. Thank you so much. That's a wrap. That was awesome. Thank you guys for watching the latest episode of The Candace Owen Show. I hope you guys enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. As many of you guys already know, PragerU is a 501c3 nonprofit organization, which means we need your help to keep all of our content free to the public. Please consider making a tax-deductible donation today. I would really appreciate your support.