Rod Blagojevich on The Rob Carson Show!

So, joining me in the studio is former governor of the state of Illinois, Rod Blagojevich. A chance meeting today. You were in the Newsmax building. I was in the Newsmax building. Welcome. Glad to have you here. It's a real pleasure to be here with you and to meet you after all these years. You know, when I was inmate number 408-924-24 for politics, not for crimes. I had a friend who worked, a fellow inmate who worked in the laundry room, and we used to listen to Rush Limbaugh together. Rush Limbaugh, talent on loan from God. Yeah, and that's your connection. I used to write for Rush. I've got written in my notes here, book, band, bears. These are the three things I want to cover today. Sounds good. Let's talk. We'll get to the book in a second. But you were in prison for politics. I can't imagine. We've seen this happen. We saw the DOJ weaponized against Trump and people like Steve Bannon, et cetera. When something like that happens to you, how did it feel? I mean, did you feel helpless when you were in prison? What happened? Did you have a transition in prison, you know, after being in prison for false pretenses? Well, yes, there was a dramatic change in all kinds of ways that I viewed the world and saw life. Certainly, you know, I viewed politics very differently, saw the criminal justice system dramatically differently. I never thought it could be that corrupt, dirty and rotten and that they would inject KGB, KGB, KGB, Soviet style police state tactics in American politics. Because from prison, I saw what they were doing to President Trump, some of the very same people who did it to me. But I think the most transformational part of it wasn't so much a transformation, because I always had a deep faith in my Christian faith, my Serbian Orthodox Christian faith that I was raised in. But in the prison, when I found myself all alone facing 14 years, and I was heartbroken and disillusioned, angry and even bitter, but mostly heartbroken and worried about my little girls who I left behind at home. My little Annie Banani was 8 years old. My daughter Amy was 15. They were little children when I left. And my wife, the three of them all by themselves. The only thing they let you bring into prison, Rob, is a Bible. I brought running shoes with me because I figured I'd have a lot of time to run, which I did. But they don't let you bring those in. But I reached for that Bible that first night. I describe this in my book, Framed, Left, and Freed. It's coming out November 10th. But I talk about that first night and the realization that I was finally in this place. because they put me in a higher prison where there were murderers, a prison that looked like you see in movies. I wasn't at a camp in the beginning until three years later. So I'm in real prison. No governor's been put in a place like that. And all of a sudden, 10 o'clock at night, the lights are shut, and you're swallowed up in darkness, and then the gates close. You hear the slamming sound of iron gates. And with the darkness and that sound, the realization hit me, holy cow, I'm really here, and I can't get out of here, and I have 14 years of this, and who's looking after my little girls and my wife? And it was at that moment that, well, I reached for the Bible that my wife gave me, and it began a series of 2,896 days where I read the Bible every single day. And I came out of there stronger, I believe, wiser, certainly, but my faith has been so strengthened and deepened, my faith in God, my Christian faith, um that it was faith hope and love that sustained me got me through what i had to go through because my purpose was to stay strong and somehow work it constructively on you know things while i was in that valley yeah and get home to my little girls and to my wife when i was uh years ago i was uh helpless drunk i was out of work and i had to sell cars for three years made a hell of a living selling cars but i hated every minute of it and i i couldn't give up the addiction and i would ask God to let me die in my sleep so my kids could have the insurance policy because i was worth more dead than alive that's how i felt did that ever come to to your mind when you were in that prison i can't imagine if you were in a much darker place than i was i at least could go outside i at least could enjoy the sunshine i'm so glad that you've overcome that um of course you think about things like that you know it's the George Bailey moment movie it's a wonderful life right am i better off dead or that or better off had i never lived in the case of somebody like me who's now going to prison for a long time and you know i was an honest governor i was like the only guy in Illinois politics who didn't get rich in the business yeah and you know there's my wife and my kids and you know she my wife Patty might have to sell our home and uh so no i would think periodically even before prison you know there's a life insurance policy worth a million dollars on me if i was dead it'd be better for them but never ever did i ever contemplate doing it me taking my own life and there were several reasons for that not the least of which is you know i was raised to believe that that's a sin and that displeases the Lord of course but even more than that frankly uh there's no way i was going to give in to those corrupt people that did to me what they did and i would you know i would endure persevere for however long it took and the other thing and the most important part from a personal standpoint is that if a parent takes their life their life the odds that their children will do it later on in life increases dramatically so there were a lot of reasons to never ever do it to never contemplate do it even and that's certainly a persuasive argument you never want to put your kids in a position where they can think that's something that they that they should think about doing when you um when you got out um how would you describe yourself emotionally were you were you angry um obviously you're relieved but but clearly there had to be some sort of searing hatred in your soul for those who put you there uh how were you there when you were released emotionally versus where you are now right good question it was released on the 18th of february 2020 president trump commuted my sentence years later he called me at home he was president for five days second time around and fully pardoned me what a great guy yeah but the first step was the clemency and that me coming home finally after nearly eight years in prison and well what did i think a dramatic joy i'm homeward bound right home sweet home there's no place like home finally i'll be home with my little girls who now were grown fully grown and my wife and uh and then profound gratitude everlasting gratitude to president trump because you know rob when you think about what trump did for me it's even more about what he did for my daughters because he just gave my daughters when he did that the greatest gift they'll ever receive in their lives he brought their father back to them and they'll always know and remember president trump is the man Your daughters were like when you got out 16 and 23 or something right about that what was that yeah my daughter Annie was 16 right how yes what was it like getting to know her again at that age yeah what that's it's insane yes very good question so i would sometimes during that long odyssey i was on in prison i would sometimes indulge myself and imagine what it might be like what it would be like if i ever did get out of this place and ever made it back home i wouldn't do it too often because that would weaken my will right in my hunger to be home you have to take it one day at a time there and i had a routine where i would exercise a lot run and i would read a lot but i would sometimes indulge in that and imagine it would be like the end of a movie or something and you go on and live happily ever after and everything would be just great and it's great and i'm not it was fantastic yeah but for my daughters i realized they had grown up and they didn't know me and while the transition for me was extremely easy it was you know going from prison to home it's like the easiest thing you can do and great it took a while for them to get to know who this man was who now lived with them because I had been away for so long. Yeah, and you're like, tell me about your eighth grade year, ninth grade year, first freshman year in high school. I mean, you missed so much of it. I mean, that's got to be tough as a dad because, I mean, I relished every second of my kids growing up. I made a lot of mistakes, but man. Man is right. I mean, that's the best thing we have, right, our children. And my moments with my kids, even now, are the best moments I have. We watch football together. We watch sports together. My two daughters and I, I was able to raise my older one to be a real good baseball fan because she was the son I never had. Cubs or White Sox? Come on now. Cubs. All right, all right. You're from Iowa, so you're for the Cubs. Yes, I am a Cubs fan. You're like Ronald Reagan. You did radio in Iowa, just like Ronald Reagan. And Paul Harvey. Yeah, Paul Harvey too. But okay, so you're a man of faith. You're reading the Bible in prison, but I don't know how you could overcome the bitterness and the anger for those who put you there. Where are you now as far as those people are concerned? That's a great question. So what does the Christian faith command require of us, right? We are mandated to forgive, right? And there were a lot of people in my story that treated me in a way that was bad, disloyal, and all kinds of other ways. And I came to grips with that during those years by reading the Bible and recognizing what I was supposed to do. So to answer your question is everybody's been forgiven except those corrupt prosecutors. I know I'm displeasing God by saying that, but I don't want to lie to him. I don't forgive them. I'd like to see them be held accountable for what they did. Don't they have to have, accept the responsibility for the wrongness of what they did before you can forgive them? They must have that. And you know why they must have that? If we're going to save the rule of law and the Constitution in our country, these people, the Comeys and the Fitzgeralds and the Mullers who were involved in my case and President Trump's case, the Jacksmiths, the Letitia Jameses, the Fani Willises, those people need to be held accountable. Yes. Or else we're going to lose our freedom in America. It's not Democrat versus Republican. It's the rule of law and the Constitution. And the people who are charged with the responsibility to enforce the rule of law must preserve and protect it, not abuse it for politics. What kind of person puts an innocent person in prison knowing that they're just putting them behind bars because they disagree with them politically? You've got to have the soul of a demon, for God's sake, to do something like that. I can't even relate to that. Even my worst enemies, I couldn't imagine imprisoning them for something they didn't do. You know what I would say to any atheist out there or person who's like a secular humanist? I would say, you know, you have a right to not believe in things. But let me tell you something. If you don't think there's evil in this world and that this is a struggle between good and bad, you're naive. That's what this election is about. It certainly has elements of that. That's what it is. And in my experience, I discovered evil. I saw it, fought it, and I'm still fighting it. I want to mention you also, okay, you're in prison. You're going to be with these people for eight years. You met a lot of people. Oh, yeah. Did you gain some wisdom from those people? Did you make friendships there? You said you mentioned you had a band. You had a band in prison? I did. I had a prison band called G. Rod and the Jailhouse Rockers. And I was the lead singer. Well, give me an example of the playlist. Give me a couple songs. Well, it was Jailhouse Rockers, of course. We did a medley. We did several songs. We performed. I write about this in the book. I have a whole chapter called G. Rod and the Jailhouse Rockers. Remind me of the book title again. Framed, effed, and freed. Framed, effed, and freed. I love it. I love it. It's difficult, but it's descriptive of the story. And it's a story that starts with one President Obama because he started the whole thing that sent me to prison. And President Trump who ended it when he sent me home. And a lot of the stories are about me in prison with Crips and Bloods and Gangster Disciples and Sinaloa Cartel drug dealers. Murderers. There were men in there who committed murder, bank robber. About 450 sex offenders. Wow. About 950 guys there. 2% white collar. One governor. Me. Right? Yeah. Yeah. But no, I learned a lot about a lot of those guys who almost all were guilty of what they were in prison for. There were some I'm sure that probably weren't. But the overwhelming number were guilty. But a lot of those guys were not bad guys. They were just misguided, made wrong decisions, had bad starts in life, didn't have other opportunities, you know, were led down the wrong path. But there was also a lot of wicked and evil people in there, too, and some really violent, bad people in there, of course. so I learned you know a lot about just human nature really more so than what I knew before which I knew a lot because let's face it I was in a people business politics right so you you kind of understand human nature but I also I think I guess maybe the best lesson with regard to my fellow inmates is there's a lot of good in a lot of those guys and to answer your question did I make friends absolutely do I stay in touch with a lot of these guys still today absolutely and I treasure those friendships and you know I might even take one or two of them with me on the book tour when the book comes out. What about the people in charge of the state now? J.B. Pritzker, Brandon Johnson. The state is in dire straits as far as finances are concerned. Chicago is a Charlie Foxtrot, I'll just say that. And the Bears are now leaving, going to Indiana. What do you have to say about the leadership of your state? You see this with these Democrats. I don't say they're blue states. Bull crap. Red is always communist. They made that up when Barack Obama was running for president that's when they switch the colors but you've got these uh these uh leftists in charge of the city and the state um and and it just it seems like more corrupt than you could imagine you know Illinois politics known for its corruption Chicago particularly but but as far as the direction of the state and like the Bears leaving and how do you hold these uh two responsible and how do you see the state ever turning things around again well first of all i i like to see the glass is half full not half empty so i look at it from that point of view I think it's going to get worse before it gets better, but I've not given up on Illinois or Chicago because Chicago is a great city and Illinois is the land of Lincoln and a great state with great people in it. But we have fewer people in Illinois today because of Pritzker, our governor, who once worked for me. Pritzker chases businesses and people away. He's raised taxes and fees more than 51 times since he's been governor. We've lost big businesses like Citadel and Caterpillar, and Boeing has left. and the Bears are threatening to leave and it looks like they're very well going to move to Indiana. And that's just gross gubernatorial malpractice on the part of Pritzker and Mayor Johnson. But I blame Pritzker more because he's got more of the wherewithal to keep the Bears in Illinois. So, no, it's failed leadership, and people are leaving precisely because of that. We are the highest taxed state in the nation, and I want to say to your listeners, When I was governor for six years, a Democrat governor, first one elected in 26 years in Illinois, the Democrats ran the legislature, and the Democrat speaker was the chairman of the Democrat Party, and he was the quintessential Chicago boss, been there for 43 years. He was a little boss man down in our state capitol. I wouldn't go along with that guy, and I fought him for six years, and the principal reason was they thought they would get a tax increase out of me because I was a Democrat. The Democrat Party all too often wants to tax people. I wouldn't do it. Nope. You're on the, you're on the, could you hit the arrow to go up there? No, no, it's over on the other side there. No, no, no, no, the arrow to go up there. There you go. Sorry. Oh, you hit the wrong, yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. You got to hold it down. You got to hold down the arrow. I got it. There you go. Yeah, it's going back up again. There you go. Sorry. That's amazing. The disappearing governor right now. Sorry about that. I need to tape it over. A little bit higher, a little bit higher, just a little bit higher. I don't want to cut off that glorious head of hair you got there. Oh, you can see me? Of course, of course. Oh, hello. You're on camera here. Of course. Yeah. We got you on camera. You got to keep going up a little bit. Oh, yeah. Because now I'm really low here. Right there. Where's the camera? There you go. It's right over here. You'll see it. You'll see the energy. You look fantastic, by the way. The hair looks great. It was quite white when you got out of the pokey. Yeah, misfortune wiped my hair. It looks spectacular. It's called Statesman Gray. I think I picked that color because I like the name better than the color, the woman who puts it on. It looks great. I think it looks great. Thank you. Did you realize that right across the street, I just moved into this studio, built this studio myself about three months ago. Right across the street, finally, because when I lived here 12 years, then I moved to Kansas City for 10. Brought them three Super Bowls and a World Series, by the way. I'm from the Midwest. You and Patrick Mahomes. Yep. There you go again. You've got to keep your head down a little bit. Right there. Right there. But we have a Giordano's right across the street. Oh, wow. And when I lived here before, people would ask me, where do you get great Chicago deep dish pizza in this city? I said, my house. Because I know how to make it. Because I know it's a pizza crust and a pie crust all in one, and you put the cheese on the bottom and you put the stuff on the top. That's what I know. But there's a Giordano's right across the street there. Well, I have a confession to make. I used to deliver pizzas in Chicago. My neighborhood pizza place was called Albon Don's. I did it for years. Did you? But I couldn't make a pizza if he asked me to. Well, I lived in Kansas City. I could deliver them. I could do barbecue as well. So the book is Framed, F'd, and Freed. Yes. Coming out next month. November 10th. You can pre-order it on Amazon if anybody's interested. I hope they are because it took me four years to write it. Oh, yeah? I wrote every word. actually two boxes of crayons primary colors to write that book yeah and i want to just just real quick to those who are uh if you maybe are looking at him his impending car incarceration take the bible with you and cut out the inside so you can put a rock hammer in it and then you can chisel through the wall and put up a poster of uh you know whoever uh and then maybe you know and then then just keep that way can i say something yes yes yes caution please if you get caught doing that they're going to throw your ass in solitary confinement. I got to tell you, this was a real joy. Thank you for finding the time. And what an amazing story. I can't wait to read the book, Framed and Freed. Rod Blavoyevich, thank you so much for your time. Thank you, Rod. All right, very good.