DAN NOVAES | He Created a Phone That PAYS YOU To Use It!

This phone will actually pay you just to use it. On this episode of the show, we're talking the founder and CEO of the Mode Phone, the first phone that pays you to do all the same stuff you're already going to do. Check it out. Hey, everybody, what's going on? Welcome back to another episode of Travis Makes Friends Podcast. Today, I'm making friends with Dan Novias. Dan is the CEO of Mode Mobile, whose vision is to sustainably offer a free smartphone and data plan to every person on the planet. Their earn-as-you-go software enables millions of budget-conscious consumers to earn additional passive income through daily habits that they're already doing. They're also the creators of the Mode Earn Phone, ModePhone.com, the first ever smartphone that pays you. Dan, welcome to the show, man. Thanks for having me, Travis. Yeah. We met at a mastermind meetup. Actually, this one right here. $100 million. $100 million mastermind. It's funny. We go to these little breakout rooms, so for those who aren't familiar with masterminds, usually you have a general assembly type of thing. We have a speaker come in. They'll share something. And then we have these breakout sessions, which to me are probably the most valuable pieces of the mastermind. And it's usually five to seven of us in a room with one or two really smart instructors. People go around and they share, hey, here's a little bit about my business. Here's a problem that we've been coming up against. Do you guys have any suggestions or whatever? We all focus on helping one person's business. And I remember when I got to your turn, everybody was like, you immediately took everybody out of the rigmarole of what we do in those breakout rooms because your business is so interesting and unique. As soon as we started having a conversation, my mind started turning about, first of all, let me get this guy on the show, but also what can we do? There's got to be some business that we can do together because it's pretty freaking incredible. So usually we go directly into backstory, but I want to start talking about your business a little bit first, and then we'll go back and talk a little bit about some context. So explain to me where you even came up with this concept and then how you got started building this company. Sure. Yeah. So it was around 2016, 2017. It actually started with we had built a music platform. And our idea was to aggregate a bunch of different music streaming platforms and media streaming platforms. And it never really took off, but we had this one cohort of user that kept using it. And we then started interviewing those people and was like, Hey, why do you use this? And turns out they all had one thing in common. They didn't pay for subscriptions. They tend to be more budget conscious. And so we were like, what if we just rewarded people to play music and created a business off of that? Because they tend to have more time than they necessarily had money. And so we focused on that area. And then that started to just have a lot of natural growth, that media. Problem was, that's a pretty hard business to make work because music streaming already is a very difficult business. So then we expanded into gaming, then we expanded into shopping, then we expanded into all these services. And we noticed that vast majority of our users were actually on Android. And then what started cultivating this idea is like, well, we're really creating an earn OS, like an earning operating system. And the idea of the phone was kind of taking that baseline software. And what would you do if you had a phone that we call Earth Phone? And would the behavior change? And what we found is, and I literally just decided to run it as a test, as an experiment, like, yeah, we're going to build a smartphone. It was relatively audacious at the time, but we did it. And we ended up seeing that people that used Earn Phone with our software, we're doing three times higher than the average consumer that was using the app and retain two and a half times more. And we just saw way better data on it. And I think the thesis is kind of like, if you go into a restaurant and go to a bar, and you have a drink and it's half left, you tend to finish it, right? Because you paid for it. And in this category that we focus on, which is like sub $150 type devices, every device is kind of the same. We're not talking about the iPhone, $2,000 market here. But if you have one phone that pays you and one does not, the consumer is going to choose the one that does, especially when we're spending 40 hours a week. That is the average time that people are spending on their device, which is a work week. And you're not making them go do a bunch of other activities in order to earn. These are things that you're already doing. You're going to be streaming music. You're going to be playing games. You're going to be charging your phone. You're going to be unlocking your phone. You're going to be doing all these things and everything's opt-in. So the more you do, the more you earn, the less you do, the less you earn. And if you want to just have the phone and delete the software and just use it as an Android phone, you could do that too. And what we found is thus far, we've been able to help users or earners earn and save $150 million through our service. So it sounds great, bro, but how are they getting paid for these things? How can you pay a user to unlock their own phone? Yeah. So we'll work with advertisers. The average person unlocks their phone 40, 50 times a day. And this is one of the functionalities that we have in the product. But think about that. That's 50 times that someone's coming and the first thing you're seeing is a news article or you're seeing this. And so we can drive traffic to different places and advertisers pay for that. For the games, what we do is we align the incentives with the advertisers and the user. So an example could be like, hey, Candy Crush. Candy Crush, what do they want? They want someone to download their product. And the traditional model of affiliate marketing was like, hey, you pay for this install and then you tell the user to download this app and you get paid. Problem is that once you do that, someone downloads an app and they stop using it. And so there's no return on ad spend. There's no value for the advertiser. What we essentially do is kind of like, hey, how do we align the value? And so what we'll do is we'll reward the user per minute that they play, which creates a habit. And the advertiser will pay us on a specific CPA goal. If we do that for a bank or a neobank, it's like, what is your goal? The goal is we want new accounts that have $5 deposit in it for like a trading account or whatever it is. What do you want them to pay? Okay, I want them to pay $150 because that's what it's costing them on Facebook or these other networks. And so what we'll do for the user is like, hey, open up an account here, deposit five bucks, and we will incentivize you another $75. We'll split the revenue with them. And now you have $80 to trade, which then creates more value for the advertiser. And that's how we align. But we just do that across every single spectrum of someone's daily life beyond just the phone. And so the vision of the company as we're really going to this next level is to create the most amount of value back to people. And we're taking the software and essentially starting to more create the Roku-style business model. And so that essentially- You create an environment that you own. Yeah. And I don't envision us to be the hardware manufacturer in the future. That's not in my core business. We are a software company. We don't make money really on the hardware at all. And what we're essentially doing, what Roku found in probably 2015, which were very smart, that ultimately led them to being a $10-plus billion company, is that they were like, hey, we're going to license our Roku streaming service to a television manufacturer like TCL or RCA or whatever it might be. Those manufacturers are going to make their margin, which is actually pretty difficult business. But this is why televisions have gone from $1,000 to $100, and now there's a new company coming out that is giving you a free TV. And it's all streaming supported. One of the co-founders of Pluto TV just launched this last week called Tele. He's got over 100,000 signups in one day. So this model is coming. And because all the revenue is coming from the revenue of the advertising and the data streaming. But we see- The manufacturing is already super slim margins anyway. Unless you're Apple. Unless you're selling it for $2,000. That's marketing. They have a huge, they have a 70% margin, but it's all marketing. And there's a specific IP around that. So the thesis is around, there's 7 billion smartphones in the world. About 1 billion of them are iPhones. There's 6 billion Androids. Most people in the world are more budget conscious consumers. We started more budget conscious and we're starting to see an uptick into the middle income, upper middle, especially as we're launching new subscription style products. But we intend to then see, what we want to see in the marketplace is kind of like a Samsung earn phone, a Motorola earn phone. And we're just kind of licensing and getting the distribution. And that's essentially the Roku style model. But I see it as a much larger market because today, there are 700 million households with smart TVs. But there are 7 billion people that own smartphones. The average household, the average person is watching about two hours of television a day. The average person is spending 40 hours a week on their phone. And that's only going up, especially as you go through the younger generations, Gen Z, so on, so forth. So we see it as unlocking a new asset class. And we see it as really a movement in the first kind of massive development since the creation of the iPhone. So now you guys are looking to crowdfund and grow the company to a big size IPO, have a bunch of users who are actual customers of yours, but also own a piece of the company. And then they get a payout to use the phone and a payout to invest in the phone. They're earning with you and making money with you as you build this massive organization. Exactly. And I think one of the awesome things about where we're heading slightly, and a lot of this is already happening in Web3, and we're doing it kind of through more of this traditional way, which is like, okay, the paradigm that exists in that older environment is like, these people are users. Internally, we refer to our users as earners. It's like, really, we turn users into earners, and now we're turning earners into owners, if you think about it. And the reason that we chose crowdfunding was twofold. One, we're a consumer-centric company that has a moonshot vision of this is a massive business opportunity. But the idea is, can we take these consumers and our earners and turn them into those shareholders and really build community, build ambassadorship? So now they're earning money, but they're also getting exposed to the upside of that company. And you could do that through Reg A+, which is a framework that the SEC, through the Jobs Act, came, and you can raise up to $75 million a year. Now, the benefit to a company like mine that is a consumer company, that you're advocating a new type of concept, such as EarnPhone, and having a large user base, is that you essentially also get brand awareness on your product. So now I can run marketing campaigns, just how I would with LTVDK for retail investors, whether it's accredited or unaccredited. But more importantly, we diluted our shares all the way down to like $0.08 a share, so that we could essentially then provide micro shares with every redemption to users and free shares to users. So now they're earning money, and we have users that earn hundreds of dollars a month, thousands of dollars a year. In addition, they are also becoming owners of the business. And that is a really powerful. And so our goal is, over the course of the next few years, is to go public with over a million investors and be the first company to do so. And because we're taking the entire user base of the EarnOS, whether it be through our app, whether it be through our devices, and make them into members and shareholders and stakeholders of the business. How old are you, Dan? I'm 34. 34. And so you must have a Harvard MBA or something. No, no Harvard MBA. No, that's not part of the story? Yeah, I was in the School of Hard Knocks. Crazy. All right. No, I say that, obviously, sarcastically, because almost nobody that comes on my show went the traditional path. There's always a story behind the story. So let's dive in a little bit further into your history here. Because like I said, when I heard this, you guys have over 50 million app installs? Over 40 million registered audience. Yeah. So it's not like you're blowing smoke here. We're not here talking about this like it's a pipe dream. This is the first ever phone you've ever made, and you're hoping to get a couple users and see how it works. This is something that's been years in the making. You have tens of millions of users. If anybody's actually set up to see this goal, this massive goal accomplished, it's definitely you guys. So I'm obviously rooting for you guys and happy to help however I can. But I want to go back into the story here and really dig into how did we get here. So let's start with, I know you started doing stuff pretty young when you were in your teens, started making good money before you even graduated high school. So let's go earlier than that, even. 10, 11-year-old Dan, set the scene for us. Tell us about where you were at that time. Okay. So as background, I'm from Brazil, originally, Sao Paulo, Brazil. Big city. When I was a kid, I moved to a town called Columbus, Indiana, which is a small town relatively in Indiana. How young? I was like two, three, but I would always spend my whole life up until I was 18, about nine months in Indiana, three months in Brazil. Okay. So Spanish is your first language then? Portuguese. Portuguese. That's right. Yeah. And then I speak Spanish. But the reason I set that stage is that because I would always transition and always go visit the rest of my family, and it's like two drastically different environments. You have the Midwest, where my pence is from my town, to give you an idea. And then there's a lot of agriculture and all this stuff. And there's an eclectic mix of people because there's this multibillion-dollar company called Cummins. That's what brought us there. My dad used to work at that company. And then there's what you'd expect there. So it's a very different environment. And going into Brazil, it's like the city and all this stuff. As a kid, I would always notice the differences of the different cultures. So what that ultimately created is as a 10, 11, 12-year-old kid, I would go in Brazil, and I'd go to the newsstands, and I'd buy Playboy magazines, and I would sell them to kids on papers for 20 bucks each. I made a few hundred bucks, then I got in big trouble. And then she was so embarrassed. My parents were like, they think that it's your dad's now, and this, this, and that. That was a whole problem. So then I graduated from doing that because I was like, that's not going to work. And so the next thing I found was actually there was this really interesting arbitrage. I've always really loved Japanese food, so sushi is my favorite food. But so my mom would take me to this Japanese grocery store in our town, and I noticed that they had Japanese Pokemon cards. And these were the second or third edition. I remember when kids were buying these Pokemon cards, and I know Pokemon's made this big comeback now, but it was really popular back then when, call it like 97 or whatever, 98. And you could buy them at Target, and then you get the Charizard or the Blastoise, and those things were like 40 bucks for a Charizard, right? I remember that. But if you bought the second, third generation that were Japanese, they were all like literally Japanese, you can get these different type of Pokemon. There's way more holographic. So I would buy those and then trade the kids and be like, this is a custom thing here. And then they'd give me their Charizards. And I would go to the card store, and I would just rip the arbitrage, right? And so that was how I was kind of wired. And then when I was like 15- Why do you think you're that way? Were your parents that way at all? Were they kind of working class? You said you kind of worked for this other company or corporation. Yeah, my parents are entrepreneurs. My dad was kind of an engineer by trade, then moved more into the business side of things. And my mom was just a very encouraging person. Like Dan could be an astronaut if he wants to be that. But I don't know, it's just kind of like I've always- Just always wired. I've just always wired this way. I don't know. I know that my great-grandparents were entrepreneurs and stuff, so maybe it's in that kind of bloodline. But I started working in a company when I was 15, because my dad wouldn't buy me some things that I wanted for my car. And so I started working at Polo, and there's a factory outlet by my house. And man, I remember doing two weeks worth of work and I was standing up. And I'm like, I'm 16, I'm in the best shape of my life, 15, whatever. And I remember thinking, man, my lower back hurts. And I was like, then I got that first paycheck. And I'm thinking, okay, this is going to be great. And even though I knew the hourly rate, but mathematically didn't convert it. And I was like, $85. I was like, how is that possible that I just made $85 and I'm breaking my back here? That's like two Pokemon cards. Yeah. And I was like, I was making more money as a kid, when I was 10. And on top of that, I have to go to Arby's and buy these food. And I was like, that's like half my paycheck. So I was like, pissed. Then I noticed there was this big group of Asians came through the store, and they bought like 50 grand worth of stuff on a random Sunday that no one was there, or it was a Tuesday or something. And it was just me and one other person. And I'm like, man, we just sold 50K worth of stuff. I was like, my manager's surely going to give me a bonus of some sort, because it wasn't a commissioning. And I got like a $20 gift card to like, or two $10 gift cards to like, literally the same Arby's. And I'm like, that's unfair. I was like, they knew that I had a 40% discount, that I could have made like 15 grand. And I could have sold them for half. I was like, I should have made five. And so in my head, and I was like, that's a good idea. You know what? I started just going around the store and taking, I had a Palm Trio at the time, and I was like taking every single- Palm Trio. And so essentially I was taking it and taking all these like, kind of like item numbers. And then I was like, you know, I'm going to just cross-reference them on eBay. And then I found this one leather jacket, because I'm already at the factory outlet mall, right? With the 40%, I was able to get this leather jacket for like 150 bucks, but it was selling on eBay for, you know, 300, 350. So my dad had an emergency credit card that was for like emergencies that I like, something happened. I have no idea what the credit limit was on this thing. And I just bought four of them because I knew that we had a return policy. As long as I kept the receipt and I did not touch the tags, I can return it for myself. If you didn't sell them. Yeah. Within a week or two. So I come home and my dad is furious. He's like, what, what do you like? You know, I was like, dad, these are going to definitely sell. And it's not a big deal because I can return it. And he's like, and he had a flip. My mom like, you know, settled him down. And then I just listed them that night. Flashbacks to the playboys. Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, yeah. I've always kind of like brought my parents to, there's some unique situations that happen over the years. So, um, so that essentially like happens and my mom, uh, or some, and then I list them that night and dude, like of the four, three souls. Cause I, you know, I just list them at 300 bucks and I literally made $300 like profit after the shipping whole deal. And so I just started doing it. I started doing so much that my manager was like, Hey, like, what are you buying all these jackets for? And I was like, my family, but he knew I was from Brazil. He's like, you're spending twice of your weekly paycheck on jackets. And I was like, they just really love these jackets. And then he's like, but you, but you're from Brazil. It's like 90 degrees there. And I was like, Oh yeah, but they're expensive there. But there's like different parts and like, you know, people in that. And so it kind of got one manager was cool with it. The gentleman was not. And then they like, you know, people will start thinking like, is he selling? And whatever. So what I did was like, you know what? I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna even deal with that. I just told every other employee that if you buy the jackets, like you buy one or two a week or like every couple of weeks, I'll give you an extra 30 bucks. And dude, I literally had a monopoly on these jackets. I was only there as an employee for like three months. Cause I would always just say, I can't come to work. Cause I just wanted to stay there for the employee discount. But anyways, eventually I heard I was going to get canned. So I decided to quit first. Um, but I made like 20 some thousand dollars, $25,000 in four months. Arbitrage on jackets. Arbitrage on the old jackets. And so then I had some starting capital, right? And uh, the opportunity that kind of led as I met this other guy that was selling kind of electronics. And, uh, I just found this guy that was, he was selling, uh, iPods on eBay. And I was like, this is a very, uh, like these are good deals. And, um, you know, it turns out to be this guy that he had, he was an electronic distributor in Miami. He had this unique contact with Apple where he was a Latin American distributor and they were selling kind of excess stock. I hit him up, tell him I'm a 15, 16 year old kid, but he should trust me because I did this and this. And he basically gave me the same pricing that he was giving people that were buying 10,000, 20,000 millions of dollars. Because he told me, he's like, you remind me of myself. Right. Um, as a kid. And so he was like kind of my first mentor. And I went down to Miami, you know, he took me out. It was like, you know, he was a very like pivotal person in my life at that point in time. And, um, and then I noticed there was other opportunities in arbitrage, but this way it was actually a different arbitrage where I noticed that the, a lot of these electronics overseas and this going back to Brazil, because one thing I noticed is that in Brazil, my cousins would always be like, Hey, can you bring a PS three? Can you bring an Xbox? Can you bring an iPod? And you know, to set the stage of how Brazil operates, it's like everything is taxed at a two to three times higher value. If it's an imported good, because the thesis behind the Brazilian government, what they want to do is kind of like, Hey, we didn't want to have things produced there. So a lot of like car companies, like Ford, they'll, you can bring parts in without that crazy import tax, but they want to create jobs. So a Ferrari, for example, will cost like, you know, if it's 300 K here, it's 1.2 million there. The other issue in Brazil is that the income is one 10th of what people may make here. So, you know, it's very, it's an interesting market. What I noticed is like, Oh, okay. This Mac book costs a thousand dollars here in Brazil. It costs $3,000, you know? And so, uh, and it's, and for many back in the day, this isn't the case. Now there was a three to six month lag sometimes when a product would come out in the U S cause it's always the first market that hits. Um, and then it goes into these like Latin American countries. So oftentimes people can't even get it. So there's an even higher upcharge because only the rich of the rich is buying those things. So I noticed that arbitrage and I was like, okay, I'm going to be the first person to sell those things there. So I was the first person to sell PS threes in Brazil. And I paid a 10 of my high school friends to wait at Walmart circuit city. Uh, and for 30 hours when the PS three came out, cause there's only 600,000 came out in the world. And I gave him each 300 bucks in the States. They were very difficult Yeah. I'm like 16, 17 at the time. And, uh, dude, I was selling these things for five, $6,000 back in Brazil. And so that was like more starting capital. And then, you know, I started to notice the arbitrage in other countries. So started buying, um, phones here, unlocking the phones like blackberries overseas. And so, you know, all said and done by the time I was like, you know, freshmen, college, whatever, this business was doing a couple million dollars a year in revenue. And it was, I was all doing it all through eBay and Amazon. So it was like, you know, I didn't even know what the word FBI, FBA was there, you know? And like, you know, the, but that's just kind of how we operated. And, um, you know, I had my mom shipping this stuff, like all the FedEx ladies knew her. She was like shipping like a hundred packages every single day. At what point did your parents go from like, what are you doing to, uh, are you hiring? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, well my mom, like day one, my dad kind of like, you know, took a, took a little longer, but, um, yeah, I mean, it was just like an interesting experience. And like my whole basement was like inventory. It was like literally like come to my house. There's like 40 Mac books and like, you know, PS3s and all that stuff. And it was just kind of like a sweaty thing. But, um, you know, they gave me a lot of leeway to do things. Uh, you know, like my dad would call me and skip sick for school and my school was supportive too, you know, and that opened up the door. And I ultimately did go to college and a lot of this, these things like opened the door to scholarships. And I ended up going to business school in Indiana, Kelly business school. And, um, but, and then that opened up a whole new world. Cause then I actually got into digital marketing and ran like a very large, um, you know, uh, like fraternity centric music site where there was like a million people a month listening to my playlists on that. Cause that's when I moved, moved more into digital. And that kind of led the foundation of then, you know, meeting my co-founder, uh, after college, you know, ran a bunch of businesses there and I used all this capital from these businesses I'd run. Um, and you know, at the time I wanted to build an app, it was right when the iPhone was coming out. Okay. And, um, I had this amazing hack. It was like, you know, I paid like 25 bucks to, uh, um, Fiverr had just come out. Right. And, uh, there was a TV show and I don't know if you remember this, but there was a TV show on Bloomberg for tech stars and a tech stars had a TV show for like one or two season. And basically if you won the people's choice for this commercial for your startup, you would get a meeting with David Tish, um, who was the managing partner at tech stars at the time. Yeah. So I buy this video for like, you know, $10, um, on, on Fiverr. And for those listening to tech stars is a tech accelerator. Yeah. It's like white combinator competitor or whatever. And, uh, and you get on the TV show. Um, and then all you do is get a bunch of votes. And I like had, you know, ways of how to growth hack that growth mindset that, and I ended up winning. And it was my whole cost. This whole thing was like 30 bucks. And then I get there, I'm on the TV show, uh, or like we're on the TV show as the winner. And then I go meet David Tish. Uh, the interview goes horrible. I don't get into tech stars, so that didn't work out. But, um, because it was just kind of like, I wasn't like fully thinking it through on what the startup even was like, I had the worst name. It's called was Zora. And I was like, it was the Pandora for food. And it was like such a bad business idea. But I, it was my recollection of the experience was that was the best 25, 30 bucks I've ever spent in my entire life. Right. So my next thought was like, okay, well I have this site, this music site that people are listening to still. Um, and I want to make an app for it. There's a big opportunity there. So I go on Fiverr is like, is there anyone that's willing to make an app? Right. And I see someone that just posted the day before, like we'll make out the five bucks. So I just hit up this person and I'm like, Hey, like, can you make an app, uh, for five bucks? And then, uh, I get a reply and you know, uh, I read the name and, uh, the name is, uh, K I R a N. And I read like Kieran and I'm like, maybe he's from Bangladesh. He's like, no, five bucks can't do it, but I can do it for 85 bucks. And I'm like, okay. Like no, no, no expectations. Cause we're talking about $85. Yeah. And I was like, okay, sure. Tell him the thing. He's like, you know, three weeks later comes with like a prototype of the app. And I was like, feel like able to play with it with like test flight. And I was like 85. So I started talking to this kid. Um, turns out he's a high schooler, 17 years old, um, from the UK. And he listed himself on Fiverr because he just read programming books, um, and didn't feel comfortable with his skills, but wanted to get some real live work. Um, and his name was Kieran. And, uh, and then basically he was like, yeah, I told him I just graduated college. He's like, yeah, I'm just about to graduate high school. And then I'm going to college. And then I'm like, I launched this app. Maybe like two weeks later, we finalize it. And it made like 10 K. Right. Great ROI. Right. And I was like, dude, you should move here, uh, to Chicago and we should start a startup. Right. And I convinced him to take a gap year of school and move there. And his parents allowed it to happen. Well, so his dad ends up having this crazy story where his dad, uh, got an invite to start a startup when he was around not Kieran's age, but maybe a little older. And because he was kind of like starting out his life, um, he wasn't able to that startup ended up becoming the largest hardware chip company, um, in the world. So one of the multi-billion dollar companies and, uh, his dad, I mean, he's very successful. He's had a bunch of like exit stuff was still like, you know, that's the only conclusion I have is like, they didn't want to hold that back for him. So he comes to the Chicago and you think like, okay, like now it's going to be great. And we kind of just struggle for a year. We don't really do anything. Like we do some stuff, but not, not enough. And he's like, dude, I have to go back to school, but I'm down to work on this part-time. I'm like, okay. You know, my, my startup dreams, like, you know, now we have the texts are saying that this, um, we come up with this idea like before his freshman week. And we just kind of like, you know, hack it together and end up becoming this like law, this Instagram, uh, it was a first Instagram liking app. Um, and so Facebook had just acquired Instagram maybe a few months before. So it was a relatively infancy in the product and it wasn't what it is today, but basically the way the algorithm worked on Instagram was, um, if you can get the most likes, um, on a photo, you hit the explore page. And it was like, the algorithm would hit it. Uh, what we came up with was an exchange system that basically like you can post your photo and then someone could like it. And if all, if they followed you, they would get one coin or two coins. If they followed you, if you didn't want to do any of that, you can just buy an app purchases. We launched this app, hack it together. I remember the day it launched and I was like traveling in New York and it had three hours in the day and somehow it made like 800 bucks. And I thought it was an air, right? I was like, so the next goes by and I'm seeing this app like trickle through, it refreshes every three hours in the charts and it's trickling through to like number four and number six and the top of the app store as a paid app that has an app purchase as well. And I'm looking at the grossing charts and we're in like the 70th, 80th and the app is like broken type stuff. Like it's, it's whatever. And then the next day it comes and it's like made $14,000. Then the next day, $20,000. And so this kid's in his freshman, you know, about to start freshman week. Yeah. And like, and it's like, you know, and we're making like, like three, 400, 500, 600 K a month. And so this has happened. It's kind of continues. He's working as part-time. And then I was like, Hey, like, I think that like we should, you know, we should do a startup. Like, and, and, you know, we could either expand on this or we can work on other apps like an app studio. And at the time I had an investor that reached out, was just like interested in what we were doing. And I kind of was like, look, like, uh, I don't know why I need money because like we're, you know, we're making a lot of money, but he was needed a visa in order to come here because you need a special visa. If you're not a college graduate and he was only 18. So he was not a college graduate. And, but if we were able to get the, uh, like funding, uh, we could apply for a special visa and have a much higher likelihood of getting it approved. So we ended up striking a deal for a million and a half bucks at the time that we get an investment. Um, and then he drops out of school and then moved here. And till this day, this person is my co-founder. So I met my co-founder on Fiverr. Um, and we then built this company and, uh, had run a lot of different like businesses along the way and several iterations had some exits. Um, but you know, it all started with that Fiverr story, you know? So I think like the, the moral of the story is, um, I've always kind of like taken a, uh, like, I feel like the world, people typically like, you know, see it here, you know? And then like, you know, for me, I'm always like trying to look outside, you know, I'm using someone else's hands here. And it's like, kind of like thinking outside the box and whether that's, you know, things like the crowdfunding, whether it's like other formats that we've done for a fundraising, uh, even how we created this business, it's like, um, is everything going to work? No. Um, but you know, thinking outside the box and really going for those moonshot opportunities and you just never know what will happen, right? In that sense. And I think that that's kind of been always, uh, attached to the DNA of how I approach things. Has there ever been a vision that you had that came to fruition exactly how you looked at it from the beginning? Um, no, probably no, no. It's like, and there's been dozens of adventures since you were 15 till now. Yeah. I mean, I would say like this, like, yes. And maybe the correct answer is, um, it's really a yes and no. It's like, uh, there is iterations that occur along the way. Always. I think the most important thing that you can do as an entrepreneur, you know, actually just as a citizen, if you're human is, uh, take everything and then use like the data that's coming to you and then kind of adjust accordingly. Cause you're going to learn more. Yeah. Um, I think that I come off like, you know, with a lot of different ideas and visions, um, about things. And then, you know, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, but they only work because we're also kind of like adjusting as we go. Um, but you know, you have to have like the, um, you have to like be very not decisive, but it's like, I think, you know, as a CEO, I think my biggest strength and sometimes that's my biggest street weakness is, is, is setting vision. Um, and you know, there are some CEOs of really good operation operators. I, uh, that's not like, that's something I struggle more with and I have to really focus on either hiring for that or, uh, training myself to be like, you know, disciplined in that nature. Um, so it's not where I, you know, have my strength. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. What, what is, what have you found to be the best modality for you? Is it, is it bearing down and forcing yourself into that position or is it you're hiring or partnering with people who can be the operator? Well, I think I have, I still haven't been able to find, um, you know, I mean, I, I resort, there's things in my team that I just like have been able to find other great people to run, whether it's, you know, people or finance, like things that I, I'm just not that person to, to think about those parts. Um, I do struggle in some components like around, uh, you know, so I first attempt is always like hire people. Right. But then the problem is like, there are certain things that I sometimes don't even know how to hire for. Um, you know, I have struggled that on the product side of things, like really find someone that can lead product, product vision, um, or this idea, because usually I kind of like, you know, I like to be in, in that driver's seat for that. Uh, but at the same time, I'm also not the best executor. And sometimes like, I need a counterbalance to my, um, you know, kind of like idea, idea, idea, idea. And I think that's why I've worked so well with my co-founder because he is more of a, like naturally a skeptic. He's a more technical, whatever. And so he'll kind of like help me guide there. And we have disagreed and committed on several things. Um, but generally I think like the modalities that I typically try and even do within my week is like, I am either in a networking mode or I have a networking day or I have a work day. And so I have certain days in the week that it's like, we're just like work, work focus, like we're not doing events or anything. And then I try and stack my schedule to be very specific on the day itself. Um, but I also, even like now, like, you know, I'm on this podcast, like there are, there are streaks of time where I go and do like media centric things and been on TV and do podcasts and news and all that stuff. Then there's times like heads down building. I am in heads down building mode for the next two or three years. And I find it difficult sometimes to do both on those times. So I'm still trying to figure out how to do that because I think that that is like what I do need to do. Um, and to be able to do both. Yeah. And in a more thoughtful way, cause I don't think it's like needs to be one or the other. Um, you just, I, I just try to be intentional when I go out and want to do media. Um, and there, what's the purpose? Like, am I trying to advocate something? Am I trying to market something? Am I trying to meet people? Am I doing an investment round? Am I like, what am I doing? And sometimes you just need to be heads down and focus and you, you, you can't do everything. You know what I mean? There's, you only have a certain amount of hours in a week. Yeah. There's certainly a line where you just start getting pulled into other people's agendas way too often, where you feel like you can't say no. So you just say yes. And all of a sudden you look at your calendar and it's like 80% of your time for other people instead of your business and your employees. And I think the problem is sometimes like, I struggle with myself is I say yes to myself too much too. Cause like, you know, I'm just like, I, I, I, man, I like, it's like a blessing and curse, but like sometimes I just like have all these ideas, especially at night and I can't sleep, but, but it's like, not that I can't sleep because I have like, you know, uh, you know, forgetting what it's called, but when you can't sleep at night, um, yeah, insomnia, it's just that, like, I'm so excited, you know, about something. I mean, there are times where you're not excited and you're like, I really need to figure that out. But there are other times where you're just like, I'm pumped. Yeah. I'm pumped. I'm really pumped. That's a really good idea. I really need to remember that tomorrow. You know? And then it was like, man, I only slept 30 minutes, uh, you know, and then you're destroyed. And so that's, that's like me saying no to myself is sometimes very difficult. I hear that dude. Yeah. There's, um, sometimes my wife will just be like, it's like 2am and she's like, what are you doing? I'm just like over there, like typing something on my notes just so I don't forget it. I'm like, I'm definitely gonna forget this in the morning if I don't remember doing right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Then I'll wake up in the morning and sometimes just have like literally like 2000 words of just random notes that have come to my brain from like nine, 9pm when I initially tried to start going to sleep. Yeah. It's like, hi, how long does it take you to wind down? Five hours. Um, yeah, man. I mean, I, I get that. That's um, like I try to keep my phone like in a different room now, but sometimes like the urge is so strong. It's like, I got to go in that room and I got to just write it, you know, just get it out of my brain at least. Yeah. Yeah. And then you like five melatonins, you know, uh, when, when you said, uh, you said earlier, you kind of, you know, look at it as like working and then there's networking. What is, what do networking activities look like for you? So networking activities is, um, I mean, it could look, you mean more things. I mean, like the mastermind is a networking activity. Like, you know, people look at these masterminds as, um, I mean, there's a pretty significant costs being in some of them. Right. But you have to see like the people that are going there, they're investing in themselves. Um, and there's a reason they can't even afford to be there in the first place. And you know, the ROI that I've gotten from events or masterminds far outweighs any cost of that because there's, you know, like this, like, look, I wouldn't have been on this podcast. We wouldn't have like, there's, there's a, uh, a vertical in our business that we're kind of exploring now because of a conversation I had with you passively because we happen to be in the same room in this one place. And the amount of times that has happened because one little thing led to another thing is like, you know, is crazy. Um, and so, you know, those are like, you know, I'm very intentional about those and which ones I join, um, other forms of networking. And sometimes these are actually more difficult for me to say yes to. Um, like I'm actually here like in Vegas right now because I'm at a conference called Mao and we have a bunch of partners and stuff, but I only decided to come here on Sunday because like, I'm like, so why should I really go there for this conference? I was like, I can, I can do everything like via video if I need to, like, what would I actually do? But like, I came here and like, I had so many new opportunities that just had popped up and even like things that we brainstormed with some of these partners that I'm thinking is going to create eight figure opportunities in the very near term. And you know, I just came, you just got to go. And sometimes like that networking is harder for me to say yes to. Um, but it's, I always am always like, when I leave, I'm like, thank God I went. It's difficult, man. Cause like that, that's the, we used to try to sell, um, um, when it, back when I first started my show, it was called build your network. So we used to try to teach a lot about networking and building relationships and how important it is and why you should do it intentionally and all these other things. The most difficult part about selling like networking, whatever courses, educational products is exactly what you're saying is that there's no guarantee. I can't sit here and be like, Hey man, if you go to that event, when you walk away, you're going to get, you're going to, you're, you will have met this person that can lead to eight figures of business for you. Exactly. Like I can't say that that's going to happen, but it's for sure not going to happen if you don't go. Exactly. I mean, and it's a really difficult thing. Cause like when I'm at home, I can actually execute like that focus time and you can come up with ideas and walk and you could rest and you have a routine. Those things are really nice. You know, like right now I'm like, you know, 10 hours of sleep in three days, you know, and I'm, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm energized, but I know that that's not healthy for me. Sure. Um, so, you know, a ring reminds you of that every morning. I've had it off for two weeks because I've been on one right now, like with these different, you know, events and things. And I don't even like to see us work cause it creates a like subconscious stress, you know? And so I'm like, when I get back, you know, do a nice NAD plus get the ordering like charged up. And then like, I'm back on the routine. How do you like the NAD? Oh man. Game changer. I, well, I do it intravenously, but uh, I do like once, like once a quarter or something or no, man, I go once every like, uh, probably like four to six weeks. And then I do glutathione high dose glutathione, 1200 milligrams, like, uh, three, every three weeks. Okay. So explain what the NAD does for those that are listening. Cause this is something that I actually probably less than a year ago heard about for the first time. Sure. And then the more I'm talking to more people about it, the more I realized how many people are starting to do it. Yeah. So I'm not going to give the, uh, cause I'm not, I'm not like the full, uh, you know, like experts and, uh, you know, exactly the, um, the, the, the process I kind of like the, on a molecular level, but fundamentally, um, your cells are essentially kind of like, you know, like dying and like, right. And, uh, and oxidizing exactly. And, um, and NAD is a component of that. Right. And it's actually, uh, you know, that is what creates age age is actually, um, the number one cause of death, right? Because, you know, I was actually, um, at this, uh, this thing called summit at sea this past weekend, it's kind of like Burning Man meets Ted. Okay. And there was a, um, you know, a bunch of amazing entrepreneurs, Richard Branson, and all these people were there, but, um, the, uh, this, this doctor named Mark Hyman, very well known. Right. Yeah. Um, and so I figured, you know, you might, he's like part of the network. Um, he had something that was like, kind of stuck with me. I was listening to his talk and he's like, okay, uh, how many, how many years do you think that if like, we were able to get rid of heart disease or cancer, uh, would extend human life? Right. Like, I'm just curious, like, what do you think? How many, if heart disease was like gone, right? Like, like heart and heart attacks and things like that, or cancer, if it was just like, we solved it for it. How many years do you think that the human lifespan would increase? A decade. Yeah. So that's actually very close. It was like, it was like five to six years for each. Right. So it was about 10 years. Um, if you can heal aging, like revert aging or stop the aging process, it was like 40 years. People would live on average to 120, um, which is like really interesting. Right. And you know, like that was a very different problem to solve for. Right. Cause aging is the ultimate death killer. Right. Um, and so, uh, high level, what the NAD is doing is it's anti-aging, right. It is a replenishing your body and, um, making it so that it is, uh, aging slower. Right. It's replenishing the compound in your cell that's responsible for aging when it starts deteriorating. Exactly. Like when NAD, like you already produce NAD. Exactly. When you're young, but when you get older, you produce less and less and less and less and less. Exactly. So this basically gives you a dose of that. Yes. So that it prevents you from, from aging literally. Literally. At a cellular level. Yes. And you feel this. If you do it intravenously, you feel it. It kind of is, it's, it's uncomfortable. I sort of like it, but my wife says I'm kind of psychotic that I kind of like it, but it's like, uh, cause I feel it's kind of like a nice little, you know, a little buzz, you know, but, um, but it's, you know, so, so that, and then, and then the, and the glutathione at high doses, glutathione is extremely, um, you know, uh, effective for anti-inflammation. Okay. Um, and for me, I've always had struggle with gut issues, uh, for the last 10 years. And so it's part of my regimen. Um, and I feel it, I see it, you know, how my body reacts and the places that I kind of like feel inflammation. Yeah. Um, and, and whatnot. So, you know, those are part of the things I take along with like peptides and, um, you know, digestive enzymes. And I, I mean, I'm very gut focused because that's always been a thing, but I know, you know, there's a bunch of guys from the mastermind that do peptides in a totally different format for sleep or for, you know, like muscle gain, like all that. I haven't messed with that stuff yet, but I do like the research grade peptides for this gut inflammation thing. And man, I am like, it's like the biggest game changer that I've ever been exposed to in the last, like, you know, like, you know, year or not year, but like in my lifetime, but like, I only was exposed to it like last year and it was just like big change. Have you messed with stem cells at all? So I've looked in some, I actually went to the stem cell Institute in Panama. I tried to actually just do a walk-up appointment. And I was like, my friend, uh, we have a wait list for six months. And I was like, well, can I see the, the, the center? Cause I've, I happen to be in Panama for a connecting flight. And I was like, maybe I can just do the stem cell while I'm here. And, uh, the guy looked at me like I was a fool, you know? And I was like, but I read the book, you know, the stem cell therapy. Um, yeah, dude, I mean, I've considered, uh, I haven't, I haven't personally done it, um, uh, yet, but I've considered doing it and read a lot into it. And I'm, you know, it's like kind of like a next phase thing, you know, to me where it's like, um, you know, you have to be careful with this type of stem cells. If you're doing like umbilical cord stem cells or, and like, you know, the source of it, cause like, you know, you know, depending those places are very like reputable, but I mean, I'm really into that science, whether it was that I've looked into like, even like things like, you know, with people that have gut health, like even fecal transplants and that I haven't done that. I haven't had to, but it's something like, I consider everything. And I've always been kind of like gravitated towards, you know, I found out about Wim Hof like eight years ago. And I actually studied with him in a small group of 20 people like right around that vice video that came out before we were like, he really blew up and got into the ice bath stuff. And like, you know, I'm always like looking for that next thing. And I just think, cause like you can perform at like your highest level or counterbalance things that genetically have either already in me or that through outside factors have impacted me, um, in a specific way. Right. Um, like whether it's, you know, chronic illness or, um, you know, I had like a meningitis kind of thing when I was 22 and it was like a very scary time. And I feel like my system changed after that. I think a common denominator of high performers is they realize that at some point along their journey, they eventually have a realization that they are their number one asset. Yes. Your ability to perform at your highest level is the difference between doing a million a year, doing a hundred million a year. It's like, it is that big of a difference. So you are not constantly trying to optimize yourself, trying to learn how to be a better version of you, whether that's through knowledge, whether that's through physical health, which also is better for mental health, which allows you to think better, allows you to communicate better, allows you to meet better people. Like at some point, I feel like every high performer I've had a conversation with had some sort of realization along the way that it's like, Oh, it's not really about like not, it's not even about investing as much into assets at first. At first it's like, I am the number one asset because I'm the only asset that I can invest in that has a sure return exactly every time. Yes. You know? Yeah. And you, and it's like, you know, and you're in yourself day to day. So, I mean, it's not, it doesn't feel like it's happening overnight and it always seems slower to us. But I think the reflective thing, component of that too, is that, you know, for me, I had a big realization. I was like, man, like 33,000, right? That's right now, that is the average amount of days that a person lives. And when you say 32,000, it's like, not that much. And when we're, you know, 34, you know, you're, you're halfway there, you're not at 14,000. And, you know, and then, so when you can account for things like that, whether that's in your relationships with like, you know, for me, anytime I get really, you know, frustrated with a family member or some situation with someone that I care about, and we have those, you know, in your family and loved ones, it's like, you know, like in my life, I spent the most time I would ever spend with my parents from the ages of zero to 18. And now if you do mathematically, like, hey, I may see your parent, your parents, like, you know, once every three months or once every two months or whatever it might be, you're dealing like four to six times a year. If their average lifespan is another like 10 years, we're talking about another 50 visits, 60 visits. So is it really worthwhile to have a pissed off conversation with someone that you love? Because if you do it as a countdown of 50, 59, 57, 56, that changes the game. So it could go from things of that niche situation, or even like, you know, I wear black every day for the last eight years of my life. And people, I like how it looks. So that's why I do it. But mathematically, it also saves me approximately 10 minutes a day, right? And it's also much easier to pack and travel. And I always do carry ons. I never have to do with that stuff. So I'm always on the move and easy on the go. But if you mathematically do it, every single day, if I'm saving 10 minutes, it's 240 hours a month, or sorry, it's 300 minutes a month, which is, you know, let's say five hours. And then over a year, that's 60 hours, which is two and a half waking days. And then two and a half waking days times you doing that for 30 years, it's like 60 waking days. And then if you mathematically do that, it's like an extra eight months of life, right? Of like actual time, just because I didn't decide to pick my clothes and everything matches, right? And so it's like, there's so many different things like that that you can do and account for. And that's kind of like, I think, you know, a lot of high performers think about things in that way. And arguably even more of a difference than that, because it contributes to decision fatigue when you have to decide on stuff like that. And every day you have like this decision fatigue threshold. Exactly. That's why I'd like at the end of the day, my wife and I, you know, she works full time and takes care of the kids a lot. And then I, you know, we'll have these couple businesses and everything. I'm super busy. By the end of the day, when we're trying to decide what's for dinner, neither one of us can decide what's for dinner, you know what I mean? Because it's just like, neither one of us wants to make the decision. It's just like, ah, I don't know, anything, put it in front of me and I will eat it. You know, like at this point, at this point I just don't care. But I literally, but then you like, there's a decision fatigue and then it's like an hour later, it's like, so wait, what are we eating? Yeah. And so we have that, me and my wife have that for food. We have that for like, uh, you know, what do you want to watch? You want to watch this? No. And then it's like, like an hour later, it's like, you end up just watching the office on reruns. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or you just don't watch anything. You're just like, now it's too late. And it's like, just go to bed. And then you're just like, man, I just wasted an hour. Then I'm like, thank God I wear black. You know, like, that was like literally, cause it's also like that happens, but I'm like, well, at least it's not happening. Both things aren't happening. Yeah. It's so funny. Somebody, uh, I had a blue shirt on recently and somebody said something like, oh, that looks, that looks good on you or something like, or just, they were just so shocked that I was wearing anything but white or black. Cause that's typically how I, it's just like, throw some shorts or some pants on and have a white or black tee and it's long sleeve in the winter, short sleeve in the summer, maybe tank top, you know, but it's white or black and it's just make, like you said, I don't know. I just don't, it doesn't, it's like, fashion's not something that I'm passionate about. So why spend any more time than I have to think about or find a look that you like? You know, I make, I make the, uh, my shirts ironically in Brazil through one of my mom's like contacts that I would make shirts. And I'll just, and she'll, one time I found a nice cut of a shirt that I like, I was like, can she just make me 40 of these? And every year I just go to Brazil and I get 40 long tee custom black shirts, which I'm wearing today. Um, sometimes they have a pocket, sometimes they don't. That's how I deviate. And, um, and that's, that's all I do. It's been 10 minutes thinking about what if you want a pocket or not. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Um, we'll do what, what's, uh, what's coming up next. What, what is the big thing that you guys pushing right now? Yeah. So, I mean, the, uh, the main focus right now has been, um, is around this kind of like reggae plus that we're doing. And, you know, uh, that I was kind of mentioning, it's like, you know, I massive crowdfunding project. Yeah. Massive crowdfunding project. Um, I, I've never seen a company do something like this. There's been cool iterations. I was, I was really inspired by like, uh, back in, you know, I don't know when that was like 2016 or something. I don't know if you remember jet.com, right. Got acquired by Walmart for like um, and they ran this really cool promo. Right. And it was basically like, they were trying to get people to sign up for jet.com. And basically, um, the amount of referrals that you can bring in to sign up would give you a certain amount of points. And, uh, there's this awesome story. Like, you know, you should either get them on your podcast or just kind of read about it. And like, you, you could look it up, but this like a bunch of people did it. There was some guy that was like a marketer clearly. Um, and he found some way to get like 18,000 referrals into jet.com and ended up winning. And basically the way the ones that you would get like a certain amount of like stock warrants into the jet.com. And I think like the founder of that was able to raise a hundred million right off the bat. So he was a very like, he was, he was, I'm pretty sure he was like a pretty experienced, like, you know, cause you, yeah, you don't raise a hundred million with nothing because he was just an idea. So he was like, whoever backed him was banging him. Bottom line was it's like, you got $10 million in stock, something like that. Guy wins. Jet.com ends up getting acquired for two, $3 billion, whatever it was. And this guy's like $18,000 investment in this like random referral campaign ended up netting him like 20 or $30 million. Right. And, uh, and I was like, that's amazing. Right. And like the second place winner won some. And I was like, cool. But the jobs act didn't exist back then. Right. And, you know, if you're willing to go through the process of, you know, reviewed and then audited financials and you kind of essentially it's like a mini IPO, like essentially you're doing the same thing as you see a whole thing. Well, and you have to get external account. That's what I've been doing. Cause I mean, we've had a lot of revenue and our business has been more mature than most companies that are either, um, you know, doing a crowdfund. Cause then there's like the smaller crowdfunding platforms where all they do is invest in like a VSL and then a marketing campaign. And they're like, if we get enough signups, then we'll eventually make this product. Exactly. So it's like kind of interesting. The crowdfunding market is literally like, you know, very small companies or, um, and there's like a little middle, but like, or like huge moonshot businesses. Like there's a company here in Vegas that I introduced you to boxable and you know, they have the Elon Musk, tiny home, the little casitas, and he's raised over a hundred million dollars at a $3 billion valuation from 50,000 investors or whatever it is. And, you know, that's a moonshot business. There's another one in California that these guys called they do this like solar powered car and they've raised like a hundred million dollars for this concept from like 25,000 investors because people want to see these things come to fruition. So what's interesting about like this whole model is that I see, it's like the businesses do well tend to be, um, moonshot companies that people can relate to and that they believe like in a very sign them and cynic type of way. Um, like the why behind it and that they see, like, do you believe what I believe? And, um, if you get down with that, instead of like having, you know, five investors that put in 5 million each, 10 million each, um, you can do all this marketing. You can give the free shares to your user base and then also, you know, raise money. And I think that that's kind of like aligning incentives across the entire proponent of the cycle. And if we want to focus on marketing, it's like, why not use marketing in a way that, you know, helps the company grow while also getting me more distribution and more access to more people that are, um, with our mission. Yeah. That's, that's the whole thing for me is what's cool about your company is that you've built a through line from the mission, from like downloading the app to having the phone to being an investor in the company. It's all built on the same through line, which is like helping budget conscious consumers add some money to their bottom line without doing anything different, which is, I think a mission that a lot of people are going to get on board for, which obviously about 40, 50 million have already. So, um, I have no doubt you guys are going to get to some of the other goals that you have, uh, have in store, dude. Thanks for taking the time. Thanks for coming on the show. Um, where can people find more from you? Uh, that, uh, some follow some of the stuff that you've got going on. Yes. I mean, our, uh, so the crowdfunds on invest dot mode, mobile.com. Um, we'll have a video there about everything there. Um, you know, personally, um, you know, I'm on Instagram and Twitter at no bias dot AI or no bias underscore AI on my personal, but, um, I'm going to start posting more often than, you know, I'm going to get you up and get, get more stuff. Yeah. Cause I've been, I've been on the hibernation, hibernation, meet a heads down. So it's time, bro. It's time. This is too good of a story. Like, I mean, obviously we represent people for our company guestio whenever I, I get pitches all the time, you know, from people's stories and that people that want to get on podcasts and book big appearances and all this other stuff. And like, I very rarely come across stories that I'm like, Ooh, this one could do some damage. And yours is one of them. So thank you, man. I'm out there a little bit more, share a little bit more of the story. I have no doubt. This is going to be something that we look back on in a few years and, uh, uh, you know, cheers with some champagne somewhere. So good cigar or something. I'm looking forward to it. That sounds great. Um, all right. So go follow Dan on all the social platforms. It's going to be posting a lot more. And then, um, check out my Instagram too, cause we're gonna do a quick little product shooting in a demo of the, of the mode phone over there. So, uh, and you can go obviously get one of yours over at mode phone.com. Is that correct? Mode phone.com. Perfect. Dan, this is awesome, dude. Thanks so much for coming on the show. I appreciate it. Thank you.