►專訪白宮中最有權勢的女人: 川普稱她為冰女士-白宮史上首位幕僚長◄

I'm Miranda Devine. Today, I'm in the West Wing speaking with one of the most powerful people who you might not have heard of, White House Chief of Staff, Susie Wiles. Thank you so much, Susie Wiles, for having us in your office. I know that you're not a big fan of doing interviews, especially long-form interviews, so I really appreciate that you've come to PodForce One to talk to us a little bit about your job and what makes you tick. And particularly, I wanted to ask you about these last couple of weeks have been momentous in terms of achievements in any president's term. What to you has stood out? Really, soon we'll be six months here. And looking at the accomplishments in totality, it's unfathomable. And the last two weeks have been between foreign leaders and peace and increased defence spending and a very strategic action on Iran and soon-to-be, we hope, peace in Gaza, passing one big beautiful bill. I mean, the list is too long for even your long-form podcast, but it's just been remarkable. And is that something that surprised you, that you were able, with President Trump, to achieve so much so quickly? No, because the way the 2020 election went, ended, whatever, he had four years to think about exactly what he wanted to do when he got back here and was ready to begin on the first day and has never stopped since. As you probably know as well as anybody, he never stops working. And so when you combine a work ethic that's unparalleled with a wish list that's very long and an appetite for success for the American people, this is what you get. Yeah, hit the ground running. But I guess we see that Donald Trump works in Trump speed, warp speed, but that also means that the people who work for him do the same. Do you ever find it hard keeping up? I don't know of another mortal who could really keep up. I work as hard as I can, and I think I do fine, or at least if I don't, he hasn't told me that yet. But it is superhuman pace, there's no question. And if you look around at the staff, they're all young but me. So there's a reason for that. And what about your relationship with Donald Trump? Tell us about the first time you met him. I think it was 2015 in Trump Tower in New York. Yeah, a mutual friend arranged a meeting because I looked around at the field of then 17 Republican primary candidates and said, you know, I've been a traditional Republican all my life. And I thought, this is just not working, not for the American people. We need a disruptor here. We need somebody that thinks about how to serve the American people differently. And I looked at the disruptors. And he was the one that I had the most interest in. My dad had a passing friendship with him. So I heard about him a bit. And of course, you can't be raised in the New York area and not know who Donald Trump is. And we had a great meeting. And he wanted to pick my brain about Florida politics. We shook hands. And he said, thank you very much. And I left. And I didn't hear anything for quite a bit. And then when he got ready to announce his leadership team in Florida, he called and said, will you be a part of this? And so that was my, I was the co-chairman of the state not working then. But as time went on, Florida needed a little bit of a boost. And so then I went from sitting in the VIP section of the rallies to knocking on doors. And we did well. We did very well. Yes, you did. That's amazing. So you actually perceived MAGA before most Americans did, and certainly most Republicans did. You perceived that Donald Trump had what he is now to be this transformational president. I did. I didn't know MAGA as what we know. I just knew that what we've been doing for all these many years was not working for the country and certainly not for middle America. And after talking to this billionaire who I didn't really go into the meeting thinking would have his finger on the vein of the middle class, I realized he did. And then that decision was easy after that. And I know that people have said, Joy Behar, for instance, has said, oh, Donald Trump, he can't stand strong women. And what do you say to that, considering your role? I never tweet. I have virtually no social media, but that called me. It was actually Mark Cuban that said it. And I said, wait, wait, wait, Linda McMahon, Brooke Rollins. I forget all the strong women around Donald Trump, starting with Melania Trump and Ivanka Trump. It's an urban myth that could not be more wrong. Why do you think people get Donald Trump so wrong? I mean, you work with him. I'm sure you wouldn't do that if you didn't respect him and like him. So why is he so misunderstood? Change is hard for people. A disruptor is hard for people. We expect things to go a certain way, certain decorum, certain sort of way to be. We have a view of our president that was rooted maybe in the 50s and 60s. And Donald Trump's gift, in my view, is the thing that makes people uncomfortable sometimes, which is that he says what so many people think, but never had the nerve to say it. And that is how he reaches Americans, well, the world, but certainly Americans. And yet it's different than the prescribed protocol of how a president should talk. He just says what's on his mind and people say, yeah, I think that too. So it's different, but it's working. He's in his second term. And as we started this interview, he has done more in six months than many administrations, certainly the last one, did in four years, despite what might be said out there. He's a kind, understanding, warm person. And he does not prefer to be as strong as he sometimes is forced to be. So that expectation goes to us too. We can get it done immediately and nicely. That's always going to be the preferred route. Right. And as a boss, what's he like? You must spend hours with him every day. People ask me, what's it like? What's hard about your job? Here's what's not hard about my job, Donald Trump. He is predictable and open and approachable and honest and honourable and committed and all of those things, which does not mean he can't be irritated or frustrated. But I view my job as trying to keep as much of that away from him so that he can think clearly about the big picture. We'll take care of the back office if you will. Interesting. What a great way to be. And how do you handle him when he's irritated or angry? Well, I've never found him to be irritated or angry for no reason. So solving the underlying problem is where I focus. He'll be angry. He'll say so. But again, at the end of the day, what he wants from me is to fix whatever made him angry. So I try to go to the root cause. And does he have any annoying habits? He's known to be tardy. And so the day gets out of control pretty quickly. But no, what you see is what you get. And that's a blessing for a staff member. Because then I don't wonder when I come in on Monday, what's it going to be like? I know what it's going to be like. It's going to be breakneck speed to get as much done as fast as possible for the people that need it and matter. And that's really what we do here every day, all day, seven days a week, by the way. Right. Yes. And so you're sort of creating order out of what a natural chaos. There is a natural chaos. And he prefers it. He prefers as many inputs on any given topic as he can possibly get. And I prefer that for him. It makes for better decisions. But at a certain point, you've got to rein it all in and he's got to make a decision. And he does. And then we execute. And he seems very tidy. His desk is always tidy. He seems to like order. Very tidy. He's a collector of paper. But we have a great system to make sure we comply with all the requirements here. But he reads a voracious reader. Reputation is different, but I can tell you, a voracious reader. How many times have you gotten notes from him, Miranda, when he read something? A hundred percent. He reads the New York Post. Yes, he does. And the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times and sometimes the Washington Post and anything else that comes his way, Financial Times and all of the periodicals. So if you read the day's newspaper, the day's news, you can almost predict what the day is going to bring. And that is on top of whatever was supposed to be going on that day, too. So I feel like I play catch up all day, every day. But the progress that he's making is so enormous. I mean, it's worth it. It is worth whatever we have to do to get him to a place where he can achieve what he's achieved in six short months. And I guess his being on top of what's current in the news means that he's more adaptable with whatever policies he has or how he messages them. Yeah. And he's always been sort of a TV guy. But now he's truthing and tweeting and and being on podcasts like yours. Yeah. He's he's a very adaptable communicator. And in these times, you know, you don't just it's all due respect to CBS. You don't turn on CBS and watch Walter Cronkite and you're done. Yeah. It is all day, every day, in every mode that's available. And frankly, that was a big key of success to success in the campaign. He spoke in in every way somebody could receive his message. And it's it's still like that now. And you were there, I mean, in his really dark days. I was. Yeah. So, I mean, obviously, he must appreciate the loyalty because a lot of people didn't stick with him then. Why did you do that? I believe fundamentally, thoroughly, completely in what he believes. And I, I believed he could he could and would come back. I believed he would overcome everything that was thrown at him, which was everything. Yeah. And and then when we got to an actual formal campaign, all the all the campaign activities, we had a great team. I had great partners. But but it's pretty prescriptive. You know, you figure out what your policy is. You talk about him everywhere you can. In his case, you have rallies of tens of thousands, in some cases, hundreds of thousands in between courtroom appearance. That was a bad couple of months. Yeah. But he managed. Yeah. He managed to him down. Never, never in the dark days when truly they were persecuting him. He put a suit on and a tie on and came to the office and worked all day, every day. Right. Why do you think Donald Trump has got such a will to succeed? I mean, he's got so much money. He doesn't have to do this. As you say, he didn't he wasn't born poor. He didn't have anything to escape from. He cares so he's he is truly a patriot and cares so deeply about this country. And that's not something that he came to in 2016. It's always been there. I don't I didn't know his dad or or his early life. But I have to believe that it comes from there. And he he this country's given him everything. And he believes this is his chance to begin to I think he's right. Yeah. And he he's had a few I mean, this has been a pretty smooth presidency. But one little hiccup was Elon. Yeah. Little hiccup. I mean, I saw Elon Musk here. I'm very comfortable coming in and out of the Oval Office. Had sleepovers at the in the Lincoln bedroom. It seemed almost as if he had a sort of fatherly fixation with Donald Trump that I guess inevitably was going to blow up at some point. How did you see that relationship? Similar. The president was very, very kind to him. And and Elon had so much to offer us. He knew things we didn't know. He knew people and technologies that we didn't know. It was a it was a great thing when it was a great thing. And and I had a very, I think, a very troublesome ending. Why do you think that happened? I don't know. I don't understand it. I don't know. I know that what has been said doesn't ring accurate to me, but I don't know. I I enjoyed working with Elon. I think he's a fascinating person and sees the world differently. And I think that's probably what the president saw, too, just a little bit different than the average Joe. But certainly came to not a good ending. Yeah. The president seemed very interested in him. He would spend a long time, you know, at dinners and things talking to him closely. Obviously, there was something there, but he was the world's richest man, might be the world's smartest man, honestly. Yeah. And he does have a quirky, my word, approach to the way he views virtually everything, but certainly business and organizations and and government and insight into people that were really important, I think, in the very early days, particularly during transition. And do you think he got, I don't know, jealous because he wasn't getting Donald Trump's full attention or was it something else? No, that doesn't sound like like Elon. I don't know. I don't know. And apart from that, I mean, the rest of the cabinet seemed to be working together like a well-oiled machine. Scott Besant, I guess, has been a rock star. Who are some of the others that you get on well with? You know, it's not too hard. Yeah, they're all great. But I was sitting in a cabinet meeting one day and they do tend to go on a while. And so I was jotting down in my notebook the, you know, how I saw the cabinet. And these numbers are wrong, but order of magnitude correct. You know, five published authors, seven billionaires, 11 lawyers, a couple of minorities, a Democrat or two. It is an amazing group of people that he put together. And what Bobby Kennedy's done, you know, the president took some criticism, not so much for Bobby, but what has he run before? And he has recruited a team that's unparalleled. He's doing great. Brooke Rollins is doing great. Linda McMahon has an impossible job that she's done with great grace. Yes. And achieved a lot. Marco Rubio was born for this. Yes. And has just been quickly assimilated over here in his NSC position. It really there's not one I would not who I would say is not a complete success in their in what they're doing in their area. And they're young and energetic, too. They are. Even the ones that are not young are still energetic. And now we're coming up to a year since the Butler attempted assassination. I mean, you know, I guess you don't really like to think about it too much, but it was so close that he could have died and history would have been changed just a millimeter. Do you ever look back at that and think that it was divine intervention? 100 percent. And I think in a moment he would say so. The way the the rally itself unfolded, the chart he had them put up on the screens on the big LED boards came. It was always the last chart in the rotation and it was always on the other side. So for to have him ask for that chart eight minutes in and to have it come on the side that is opposite caused him. Well, it's this way caused him look in a different direction and lift his head just a little because it was higher. And that just doesn't happen because it happened. Yes. And because I believe God wanted him to live. Yeah. I mean, were you there and what was the feeling for you? It was such a it was we were just crazy at the minute he was hit. Did you think he was dead? I did. Yeah. You think the worst you cannot. It's human. You can't you can't think otherwise. And when he stood up, I thought, oh, my gosh. And then they raced us to the cars and we went to the hospital and and it was clear very soon that that he was going to be OK. But it was a scary time and it changed everything for us. The security became front and center where it hadn't been before, which is not to take away from the Secret Service. It's just that they they became on steroids then. And we couldn't do outdoor rallies, which becomes the hallmark of the campaign. We couldn't go to buildings that had lots of windows. It really did change the couple of months of the last of the campaign. We adapted. But but it was it was it seared in my memory and I think everybody that was there that day. And did it change him? I would say I would say I think he believes that he was saved. I do. And he would never even if he thought it before. I don't think he would have admitted it. And he will now. Interesting. So it's brought him maybe to a closer understanding of God. I think so. Right. I think so. Do you ever talk about that with him? Not often. But when when when to when to deny that is impossible, then I'll say something about it. But it's you know, it's our relationships with with God are personal. Yeah. And I notice he more often says things that are perfunctory. Every president says, God bless America. Well, it's it's more profound with him now. And it's more personal. And I do I do think you have to ask him. But I do think he recognizes that that being saved that day was for this for a reason. For a reason. And is that the way you feel that you're doing something? I do. I I think so much that happened led us to where we are and what and Butler was a big part of that. It really was. And and for the American public to see a person who was such a fighter as he was that day, I think as awful and tragic as it might have been, it turned out to be something that that showed people his character. And that's helpful. Yeah. If you enjoy this content, please consider subscribing to my channel to stay up to date with future videos. Thank you for watching.