How to Progress Beyond Perfectionism with Monica Packer

Welcome to Super Entrepreneurs Podcast. Today we have with us Monica Packard. How are you? I'm doing great and well done on pronouncing my last name right because almost everybody gets it wrong. So I was like, wow, I'm impressed. Really? Packard? I thought, it's pretty simple, no? Like to pronounce? No, I get a lot of Parker or Packard and all sorts of random things. So you did it. You did it right. It was awesome. I love it. I come across many, many names right day to day, you know, so I'm getting a lot of practice. And I always try to, I make an effort to try to pronounce the names correctly. And some names are quite difficult, but I work with them before going live. So to make sure, but I messed up a few times in some of my recordings. I have too. Over the years, I have too. Yeah. Yeah, we all have, you know, I was just interviewing someone before you. And we were just talking about that, that, you know, we shouldn't really fear mistakes or accident or, or, or failures, for example, right? We should just, we know that they're learning steps and we just, it should not hold us back from taking a step or taking an action. So I embrace these kinds of failures, any kind of failure, like I love it. So to me it doesn't, but, you know, without failure, how are you going to learn how to do things proper? Like it's that journey, right? Well, you're speaking my language right now. And that's actually what drew me into your, to your show when you reached out was just that growth mindset focus you said you have. And I was like, yep. Yep. Oh, beautiful. I love to get into it. Yes. That's going to be amazing then. So Monica, can you go ahead and in your own words, just, I already introduced your name, but you want to kind of share with the audience what you do? Yeah, I'd love to. So I'm primarily a podcaster. I work with a podcast called About Progress and it's become a wonderful community. I'm also a coach there and it's primarily a podcast for women, but a lot of men end up listening to we're a personal development community that focuses on progress outside of perfectionism. And that's a huge part of my own story behind me is just how perfectionism almost ruined my life. About Progress began as an experiment as a way for me to see if I could grow outside of perfectionism. And it's been a wild ride, but a great ride. And as part of my work, I mean, I'm sure the entrepreneurs who are listening are thinking like, so what do you do with that? I mean, the podcast is my main way of connecting and teaching with my audience. But as I said, I'm a coach and I was a teacher before I started podcasting. So I also teach online classes and courses too. So that's where the income comes from on top of podcast sponsors. Yeah. Well, I'm super excited now what you shared because I love this stuff. I breathe it. Every single day is just beautiful. And getting into that information and you having that podcast to share that message and help people. Because I find that mindset is, and I always say this, but it's the foundation, just like you have a home. Many people say this, right? That mindset is like a foundation. When you're building a home, you don't start picking out the windows, which we tend to do, right? Because of how we grow up in our life, especially the first eight years, we start learning those things, right? Those programming, those paradigms. Then when we start school, that competitiveness and that getting the best grade and winning. And it brings us to a place where we find ourselves confused, a little frustrated and angry as we get older. I'm kind of maybe even sharing my own story in a way, but when we start going about it and seeing, oh my God, this life is so competitive. I need to be perfect, right? Perfectionist. So I need to do things on the spot. I got to make my dad proud. I got to make my mom proud, my family proud. So all that pressure, we're going into this world with all that pressure. We don't really even become aware of all the gifts and the powers and the beauty that is within. If we started that within journey and looked out from there at a young age, everything will be different in our world, I feel. It has been for mine. And the way you just described perfectionism is a way a lot of people experience. It just doesn't start from day one. It's kind of a learned behavior. It's a way we try to learn how to cope with life, but also how to navigate it from a place of a semblance of control. And I was totally the overachieving perfectionist you just described. But what surprised me the most is early in my early 20s, I crashed and burned because of the overachieving perfectionism, like full-on terrible mental health issues, eating disorders. My life literally almost ended because of perfectionism. Yeah. But what surprised me though is after that, I tried to go the other way. I went to the other side of the pendulum swing, and I didn't realize that in my pursuit of staying safe, of not trying, of not putting myself out there, of being afraid of failure, that I was still a perfectionist. I was just an underachieving kind. And that might resonate with a lot of your audience because they might be thinking, I'm not a perfectionist because I don't achieve everything. And most perfectionists are the kinds that are just sitting on the sidelines, whether that's with their personal lives, or their business, or their relationships, because just like the overachieving perfectionists, they are still stuck in fear and wanting the outcomes to prove their worth. And I think nothing has taught me more about progress over perfection than my business, than my work. And it's funny because I don't get to talk about that very much on my show. We're more personal development, right? So, I don't talk about business there, but nothing has tested what I preach more than this entrepreneurial journey about learning how to embrace failure, growth mindset, all of those things. It's had to be part of the journey, or else I would have quit seven years ago. Yeah. You know, we tend to focus a lot on the results too, right? So, it feels crippling when we're super focused on getting that goal, getting that job, or getting that house, or get, get, get, get, get, get, get, right? And we put so much blockage, so much weight on our soul, you know, as a human being, as an individual, that we don't even allow that flow, the nature, the flow of nature to work through us, because we're creating all these barriers and blockages, right? So, it's, it's super important to kind of be part of shows like yours, for example, right? And ours here is because it, it brings that awareness that, you know, you start seeing outside the box, for example, right? Because when you're so confined in your own world, you don't really know it. Like for me, my entire life in the business field, it was, it felt like what I was doing was perfect. I was, I was, I was right. I was doing the right things, but only when I started increasing my awareness, started realizing, wow, I was doing everything wrong. So, that level of awareness, increasing that level of awareness, you know, I'm, I'm grateful that you have this type of reach to share that. Yeah. It's, I mean, it's changed my life. It's changed my life personally. It's changed my life relationship-wise. It's changed my life business-wise. But, you know, when I, when I'm thinking about the people who are listening today, like, I just want to like commiserate a little bit because especially when our heart is poured into our business and our work, it's really easy to get wrapped up in the outcomes or the lack of outcomes, you know? Disappointment is a huge part of the journey that we're on as, as business owners, as people, as, you know, ones with passion for what we do. I love that you are a person of passion with this, for this world. I, I feel that way too. And it's such a fine balance of working towards your dream and, and, and harnessing, you know, the energy you need to stay devoted to that dream and that goal while also detaching your worth from the outcome and being willing to learn along the way from the missteps, from the disappointments, from the failure and tweaking and trying again. I, I think all of us can relate to that, how that really is what it looks like, but it's hard. It's, it's easier said than done, for sure. Yeah. All this is super, super simple, but not easy in any way, right? It takes a lot of willpower initially. And the beautiful part is that willpower also becomes stronger, right? It's just like any, like working out at a gym. When you practice willpower, it becomes stronger and stronger and stronger. And then you start noticing, you know, you start making less of deals with yourself, you know, like we, we're such honest people, right, overall. And when it comes to our own commitments, we'll make deals, right? You know, I'll do it tomorrow, I'll do it next week kind of thing. And that's where that beautiful procrastination and indecision comes into play. But, you know, when we, when we pass that, that's when you start noticing the perception. I mean, like the overall perception of our life and our experience, you know, shifts, like how we look at things, right? How we look at other people, our relationships, you know, business, everything just feels like, it just feels easier, you know, and challenges and those things come, right? Like you face them, I face them, they come, but your response is different to them, right? It feels like you're not at that lower plane of understanding. Your awareness just is increased with time, with working with people like yourself. It goes higher and higher. And all of a sudden, when you transcend these little things that seem so huge, like for me, such a small thing now that I look back, sometimes I try not to be, I try to be in the present moment. But if I do, I say to myself, I can't believe I thought this was such a serious thing. You know what I mean? Yeah, I do. And you know, I was, I just finished this book called The Miracle Equation by Hal Elrod. Have you heard of that book? Well, Hal Elrod, he wrote Miracle Morning, and that's really what got him, like, huge in the world, I guess. What is it called again? Sorry, Monica. Can you repeat the name so the audience can also save it on their iBooks or whichever? Of course. So, Hal Elrod is the author, and he wrote a book called Miracle Morning about the power of waking up early. And it was super popular, but I didn't know that it took a year and a half after it was published for it to even become popular. And he talks about that more in his other book called The Miracle Equation. And the reason I'm bringing this up is because it was such a good reminder for me about what he talks about is it's more than the goal we are reaching, it's who we are becoming along the way. So, yes, we have a goal. Yes, we have a dream. Yes, we put in the effort for it. But it's less about reaching the goal. It's more about who we're becoming. And I think your work has done this for you. My work has done this for me. It's made me a more persistent, open, humble, hardworking, virtuous person, I think. It's made all of my life better. Yes. Yes. Monica, you're right. It's so true, like, everything you're saying. And you know, the funny thing is, Monica, like, you can maybe share your wisdom on this. So, what do you feel happens when you speak to someone that is, you know, pushing and forcing growth and trying to get to their goal? You know, they're just super focused on that goal. And every day, they're just like, I gotta get this goal. You know, they're moving, moving, moving. But at the same time, they're feeling drained. You know, they're feeling icky, right? They're feeling sometimes not motivated. They have to go to YouTube videos, watch inspiration videos to pump themselves up to go at it again. You know, they find themselves working much longer, much harder. Results don't match, right? So, and then you come across, and you invite them, and you tell them about, hey, why don't you look? Are you open to seeing how a shift in your mindset could shift your results, right? And then many find mindset, the word, for example, to be like, ah, you know, it's not gonna work for me. My mindset is perfect, right? I am positive. You know, I know I need, I know I'm grateful. I know all these things, what would your suggestion or feedback be for someone like that? I think it always helps to just teach a little bit first, you know, before you dig deep with somebody. And in this regard, it would be about teaching them about how perfectionism and the way that they're navigating their growth in their business is truly a misplacement of identity. What it is, is you are misplacing your sense of worth, who you are, on your outcomes. And as we know, oftentimes, especially with business, we can't control outcomes. We can control the work we put in, we can control the vision, we can control the help we get along the way. But setting ourselves up to place our identity on our outcomes sets us up for failure and disappointment always. So, it's about really learning, you know, there's a difference between growth from a place of self-acceptance and compassion, and that includes in the business world. And there's a difference in working towards that growth from a place of shame and blame. And, you know, there's been a lot of psychology on this even. I'm trying to think of the, oh, I think it's Carl Young. He talked about how the paradox of growth is that it's when you accept yourself that you're actually able to change. And it's been the same thing with my business. It's when I navigate from a place of honesty, you know, I don't lie to myself. I don't tell myself everything's perfect, and I'm amazing, and it doesn't matter how everything turns out, I'm allowed to be disappointment. But when I start from a place of wholeness, of knowing this is who I am, even separate from my business, and I can be compassionate towards myself when I drive with that compassion, I'm not only able to ride the ride of entrepreneurship better, those highs and lows, I'm able to stick with it longer, and I'm able to get higher with it over time, because I know that even the results are there to teach me. They're there to teach me even what to do next, or how to switch what I did, or they teach me things about myself. So, there's a huge difference. And if this person is really that committed to the goal, I would get pretty level with them, that the only way they're actually going to get to where they want to be, is if they work on that mindset piece. It will directly impact how they show up, the way they're thinking. Yeah. And if they are really that committed to the goal, yeah, everything changes. And if they want that goal that much, they need to switch where their identity is, and how that needs to be outside of the outcomes. And that might feel really scary for people. And it was for me for a long time, when I thought the only way you grow is by pushing, pushing, pushing. And I still work hard. I work harder as a non-perfectionist than I did as a perfectionist. But it comes from a different place. It doesn't feel hard, though. It really does. I mean, it can. It can feel stressful. I can still have launches that don't go well, and I'm disappointed, and all of that. It's a different sort of hard. It's like a fulfilling hard. It's one that is still, like all-encompassing, it still feels good. It's still where I want to be, you know? The work I still want to be in. Exactly. You're exactly where you need to be at any moment. They say life lives with love compared to fear. Love produces, love connects, love grows, everything around love. For me, I grew up with fear, right? It was always like, don't do that, this, don't do that, this. And, oh, don't go in business. If you go in business, you know, that person, that person, you know, it was all fear-based, fear-based. Get a job, get a pension, try to get a government job so you're safe, so you can retire. It didn't sit right. So, all that stuff was fear-based. And you see it around, too, right? There's a lot of fear. But when that changes to love, it starts from that inner love, like you start the self-love, right? So, you love within, you see that beauty, that calmness within, and from that, it pours out on everything else you do. And the other way, fear within fear pours out on everything that you do. The quality of a workmanship coming from love compared to fear is day and night. Oh, I'm so glad you mentioned that. And that's a huge part of perfectionism. It's fear. It's fear-driven. And when you're doing that, you're not navigating from a place of even being able to, you know, see the forest through the trees. Like, again, if you want your business to succeed in the long run, you gotta, like you said, navigate from love. And this actually goes back to even before I started my business, when I was just trying to recover from those early 20 years, you know, when I was really, really low with life. The way I worked on my recovery was just this mantra that I still use today. And I didn't even know it was like a mantra. It just happened organically. But the thing I kept telling myself when I was struggling with getting dragged down back into depression or my eating disorder behaviors, so this is separate from business, of course, but it relates, is I told myself, faith, not fear. And it was to try to replace my thoughts with ones that were more faith and, you know, you'd say love-driven. And that helped me in my recovery for years, but it's also helping with my business. I have faith that I'm there to love people by serving them. I have faith in the process that the small wins I am building right now will build over time where I want to be with my business, but also how I want to show up with love for the people I'm serving. It also frees you up from making your audience and your clients prove to you that you're doing a good job all the time, you know, because you're just there to serve. You're just there to have faith in yourself and your mission and in them and in the process. Again, this is what leads to real persistence. I love that you brought in the whole, this is, it needs to be from this place. Yes. And, you know, again, persistence also is not like you're not born with it. You have to work on it. And creating that foundational, the solid foundation for that persistence to come alive is super important, right? Like you want to understand and get to know that inner world, you know, spend time in it. From there, it just, like you said, it just, there's something powerful about any of those characteristics, right? Like, you know, being more persistent and hardworking. It comes from a place that it just, for me, like it just feels, it doesn't feel hard anymore. It just feels like, you know, okay, it's just something I'm doing. You know, it's just, it's coming from a place that is just, it's exciting. I don't even know, I can't even, sometimes there's no words for that feeling. You know, you could say you feel good. Yeah. You can see, you feel happy, right? Like you could say those things, but I find it to be, I have a much deeper, deeper, deeper, deeper sense to it that I find that vocabulary or word or a language can't explain it. I don't know if you understand what I mean, but there's something truly, truly deep and omnipresent about that foundation when you operate from there. Yeah. I think to me, I think what you're describing, I can totally relate to that. I think the words for me is I feel whole. When I say fulfillment, I mean like I'm full of myself too. Like I feel, I feel like myself. And when, when you're able to like truly encompass that power, like who you actually are, you're able to show up differently. And I'd also say like show up with balance, right? Cause that's a big part of what I've learned is if I'm only focused on the work, then my life is out of balance too. And I'm not being the person I want to be. And that's just how I show up in ways that I don't like with my business too. So navigating from this place of love, like you said, of, of wholeness, of, of strength, like it gives you the fortitude to be able to know when to put the laptop away and how to support yourself in other ways outside of your business, how to, how to have a life rich with relationships and other interests that only help your work too, in the long run. Yeah. Monica, don't you feel that, you know, when you're looking at work, for example, like not get consumed in it, right. But when you're coming from that place of calmness, for example, don't you find that, you know, when you're working, you're just in it, like you're passionate, you're just focused on that present moment right into that work. But if something shows up something else, you easily shift that energy into that, for example, family or kids or vacation, whatever it is. Yeah. But don't you find that energy and that level of enthusiasm travels with you, regardless of what you do? I do. And actually I haven't even, I didn't bring this up in my introduction. My entrepreneurship work is part-time. I, my, my primary work is I'm a stay-at-home mom mostly with my kids. I have four kids and I have another on the way. My business is what has helped me. Oh, thanks. Yeah. You know, my, my business, this is how I've, it's helped me feel, feel like myself. So I can show up to my kids, to my family. Two of my kids have special needs that are quite intense. And when I wasn't having some form of fulfillment and for me, it was spent through my business, you know, I showed up with more fear, right? I showed up with a lack of energy and eventually resentment. So to me, this is what has helped me. Yeah. Like you said, I can be deeply focused on my work, but I can take that energy and switch it to the next, the next thing that I need to focus on, which is primarily my, my, my kids and they really, they need me and, and, and it's had to be that way, you know? But yeah, like that 100% has been my experience. Especially when we've talked about how your identity is separate from your outcome. It's, it's even true with my children. Like my identity has to be separate from how they did on a test that day or how they're even treating each other. Cause they can fight, you know, but it doesn't mean that I'm doesn't matter. You know, it means that I am not forcing them to prove that I'm doing a good job. So yeah, all of this blends together. It just blends into who we are, right? How we can show up. Monica, we could be talking about this stuff forever. Like, I love this. I, I love this, this stuff, you know, like I live it day in, day out because I have, I have other businesses, right? So, um, people ask me, it goes, you know, your social media is always about mindset. Like, why don't you talk about other, I started doing it now, but I said, why don't you do, I go, that's just where my, I just follow my heart. I just follow whatever I need to do. I just go moment by moment and then whatever comes, I just do it. Right. I don't even like intellectually try to figure it out or is it good or bad? I just do it. So most of that, that's why it's coming out mindset. But because of that, there's a, it changed my life like yours, you know, day and night, you know, like, and when we get to that place, Monica, it just, you just have this, you know, this need to spread it and help others. It's just some force that takes over that you just want to, you want other people to experience this. And that's why I respect, um, highly respect what you do with your time and, and this podcast. And I wish it grows to, to huge heights all over the world because we need more people like you. We need more of this awareness. Yes. A hundred percent. We need more of this. We need it everywhere. Same to you. Thank you. Thank you. We need it. Like, for example, opening seminars, you know, they're selling cell phone cases. I don't know. Start with mindset. You know, if they're, they're launching a product, the commercial three second mindset tip, then it goes in commercial education, school system, whatever. This stuff is so deep that we're connecting to the core of human beings. So when you operate and you bring that awareness out by what do, what you do is actually amplifying. It's awakening things, right? Like people are realizing, wait a minute, you know, I don't need to go outside in. I can be inside out and change my experience. What you're describing actually changed my business because I came from this place of perfectionism, both overachieving and underachieving. I I've also as part of that, Ben, what I call like a how girl, you know, just how, how tell me how and I'll do it. Give me the steps, put it in order and I'll get it done. Like I will get it done. You tell me how to do it. That's not the way business typically works. People can give you practical suggestions and all of that, but I first worked with a coach five years ago and it was mostly mindset and that's what transformed the house for me. So I'm glad that this is your work because I focus still, I mean, I still need a lot of help with the how, and I have a great coach that helps me with that. But for me, the thing that created that shift in the, in the road for me about how my business was doing, it started exactly with what you are focusing on, the mindset piece. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Super. It's so important. You know, like we, we, we look at the how and we focus on the how so much, and we do education, we do skill training, keep intellectually increasing the information, the knowledge, but that doing decreases, decreases. So what we call like the knowing doing gap, it just increases like tremendously where you're left with a highly intellectual person. Like I, I have some family members, I'll tell you, like they're, they're, they just know like right away, everything about everything, you know, but the results are not there because they're intellectually top heavy, and they're not going to the core that creates the results, you know, this, this core, this foundation is what amplifies your life and amplifies everything you do as a person, you know, it's, it's, to me, is everything is, you know, that you can learn the skills like you have that coach, by the way, is excellent, excellent thing. And everybody should do that. Everyone should have a mentor coach in any area that they want to get to as fast as possible. You work with people like Monica, you work with people like skill sets, and you want that help, because they can tell you the how easier the path can, they can make the path easier. So that was just a little tidbit about the how right, like, you always get the how better when you work with someone, someone compared to going online and YouTube and trying to figure out yourself. I have lost a lot of time and money on that. So that's why I don't want anybody else. Me too, especially when I was navigating my business from a place of fear. You know, I thought if I put the money in, would I get it back? Like, I didn't allow myself to really dig in real people. Yeah, the dots were leading for sure. Yeah, yeah. Well, Monica, we'd like to ask our guests what their inner most superpower that got them to this point, you know, you might need to dig deep, but just take a second, you know, no rush. Oh, I think for me, maybe it's twofold. One is that I've always loved to learn. I've always loved reading and learning from people and growing. So that's a big part. Also, you know, things change all the time with this work. It changes all the time with my family, with my kids. I have to be open to learning. So that's one of my superpowers, I'd say. And I think the other one is determination. And I lost that for a while. Like, I lost that for about 10 years. I really lost that sense of spark of, you know, because it was about the fear we talked about. But it's back now, and it's been back for a while, but it's from a different place. So I think my determination looks different than it did in the past. But that is my superpower now, is just being able to persist with grace and compassion. Love it. Love it, Monica. You're going places. You keep this up, add value, change lives, your world will automatically just vibrate into a higher and higher situations and circumstances. You know, I pray that you reach those heights. Continue your great work. Audience, thank you so much for joining us again for another episode. Get in touch with Monica, you can see the purity in her voice, her energy, when you hear her speak, it's coming from heart. You know, you can tell, you can always tell when something is hard or something is just saying it for the other person to hear. And, you know, you'll hear it, you'll see it in any podcast show, anywhere you go. If you follow the episodes, you'll right away know it's not because I'm telling you, because you have that power, your intuitive being, you can do anything that you want, you just got to awaken that, decrease the outer noise and awaken the inner beauty. And you will see the results that you're looking for. The pushing and the getting, it sometimes moves you away, like, you know, how you make a magnet backwards, you know, it kind of pushes you away from what you're trying to achieve, because you're focused, like Monica said, is focused too much on the results, you become a play thing for those results, you know, they go up and down, you're emotional with it. And sometimes you lose heart. And some people for 10 years, they don't do anything, right. So stuff like this can happen. You know, I love you guys continue to engage, connect with Monica, check out her website, check out her information, send her a DM, check out her post, her website and her podcast. Don't forget. And again, Monica, I'm grateful. I appreciate you for coming on the show. Oh, it was wonderful. I love talking to you. Thank you for all the work you're doing. And I love learning from you. So thank you. Thank you. No problem. My pleasure.