Ep. 43 Pyongyang International Film Festival Behind the Scenes (w/ Nick Bonner) #piff2025

Hello everybody and welcome back to Discover North Korea. If you're a longtime listener, then you may have noticed a bit of a difference in the opening music today. This is a special episode for the Pyongyang International Film Festival that's being held in Pyang in October this year. And that music was from the opening ceremony in 2012, which if you're watching on YouTube, you will be able to see. I'm going to play the full one minute clip shortly before I introduce my guest, Nick Bonner. He's been on the podcast once before. He is the uh founder and director of Coro Tours, the tour company that I work for when taking tours to North Korea. He also has extensive experience in the film industry and the art world uh surrounding all things North Korea. He's quite an expert actually and no introduction that I could give him would do it justice. um have a quick Google of uh of him and he's um he's quite proliferous in the industry and he's a fabulous man and gives us a lot of very interesting insight uh into the Pyongyang International Film Festival. So I won't take up too much time in this introduction. But what I will say is that if you do have the opportunity to watch this visually then do go ahead. Me and Nick are chatting via a beautiful Zoom call that does get interrupted in the middle. So, I apologize for that. But there will be a couple of visuals throughout basically every time I mention that. Oh, I will try and put something over this. Um, I do in fact. Um, so there's that there. It only happens a couple of times. If uh you are only listening, you're not going to miss out too much. Don't worry. Thank you again to my patrons who support me through all of my endeavors and saying I'll do things and then I don't and um who have have supported me for this long throughout the channel. You guys know who you are. Thank you so much. Um for anyone who wants to go to any of the links that I mention in this podcast, they are all in the show notes hopefully. Uh, do feel free to comment on the podcast. Um, if I did miss a link off, uh, please do let me know. And if there's anything else that you'd like to know, any questions that have gone unanswered from this episode, uh, then do let me know. I'll probably put a couple of clips out on Instagram. I always answer um all my um all my direct messages on Instagram, so feel free to uh put your questions to me and I'll pass them on to Nick if I can't answer them myself. So, without further ado, let's get back to the opening ceremony and welcome our guest, Nick Bonner. [Music] too 30 has grown bigger than ever in its internal months ago. Many worlds have presented that beautiful picture people's mind and culture. >> Hello N. >> Thank you. Hello. >> How you doing? You know the last time that you were on this podcast we were chatting about um aim high in creation uh which was uh which I think Coro Studio recently re-released and then it was back on Vimeo. Yeah, it's on Vimeo now. Yeah, >> exactly. Yeah, that was the last time we spoke. >> So, it's a good good long ago at this point. Good while ago. Um, and recently there was also another um movie released on Vimeo. Right. >> That's right. Center forward. The classic. As Simon Cockell said, probably North Korea's best ever football film ever made. The only one, but also the best. >> I was going to say, isn't it? I don't know of any other football films made. It's a great film. It's super sweet, actually. I I rewatched it recently um when uh when it's back on Vimeo. It's a great little film. >> It is. It's a good story. It's got humor in it. It's got a there's a the sort of a guy in the football crowd and the football hits him and his hat flies off, including his >> and there's bits. >> I love that. And the crowd laugh at him. >> Yeah. No, it's good. It's great. >> There's also another bit that's excellent where the the the the guys are making a joke. Um, and then and then the woman says something like, "Oh, no, don't be silly. He can't fly." And then the guys are like, "Yeah, I know. We were only joking." And then the woman's like, >> "No, no, it's good. It's good. It's got it's it's it's actually got a story amongst the the political sort of uh baggage that it's it's selling to you." But yeah, well worth a watch. >> Yeah, definitely. All right. Well, um I'll put that in the show notes for anyone that wants to watch it. It's on Vimeo at the moment. Um but today we want to talk about something very exciting that's happening in just over a month uh in Pyongyang which is the Pyongyang International Film Festival. >> Uh it's been going on since 1987 I believe. It has it used before 2002 it was the festival for uh what was it for non-aligned countries and non non-aligned and other developing countries which is a real state of Britain at the moment but um but then in 2002 it was became international when we say international international but slight limitations on films from certain countries having said that there there have have been has been an American film and I think a Japanese film has shown So yeah, >> really this year? >> No. Or just in general? >> In the past. >> Okay. Okay. I see. Um >> when Americans were was allowed into the country, we we had, you know, American filmmakers over. So that was quite a wild time, but sadly no longer. So maybe you can just give us a very very brief and a very dummies guide to the Pyongyang International Film Festival in just a couple of sentences because I think >> I mean it's it's just a normal film festival in North Korea, right? >> Yeah. It's it's like the cans of the east. Um, it's it's basically it's a if you're a filmmaker, you submit your film, you get invited, they don't cover your flight cost, but when you get all your landed costs covered for you and a member of the crew or cast, what have you, and then they they screen your film and and the tickets are bought by the public at various places throughout Pyongyang. So, it's for Pyongyang citizens. It's open for Pyongyang citizens. It isn't a sort of card thing where you know it's what people would like to say it's just for the privileged few. It's for those who live in Pyongyang and that's a sort of city of over 2.5 million. Uh and if a film's popular like Bendit like Beckham was you know it gets seen by 12,000 people. If it's not popular and I've you know been to cinemas where there's just a few trigger people um as as a filmmaker it's a bit of a you're you're almost treated like a tourist. you know, you you your show can taken around the sites, etc. And what we've been trying to do with the festival is is sort of do get Q&As's because we're sort of we help basically bring foreign films in and I'm trying to push to improve the festival in in in respect that it it follows the more international film festivals where you get to interact with the crowd. You get to you get to meet actors and actresses etc. But yeah, it's an amazing time. It's it's uh I've been to every single film festival since 2002 and we've we've had I think four or five films accepted there. So >> that's incredible. So I'm going to get back to the Bendit like Beckham thing because I don't want to get off track a little bit, but that is just fascinating. Um but maybe you can tell me um a little bit about um your involvement in the film festival over the years, Coro Studios involvement in the film festival over the years. Um, and also how it's changed kind of and evolved since you started going in 2002. >> Yeah. So, has it evolved? I think I had this argument with this, not an argument, I was sort of fed up with the festival after about sort of three or four editions because things weren't changing. And it seemed really that that all North Korea wanted to do was have a festival and get as many international countries sort of coming in as as many as they can. And that sort of ticked the box. Okay, we've like any other country, any other socialist country, every international country, we have a film festival and we have this many countries almost like um sort of like trying to get a a bumper harvest. You know, this is what we've done. We we've we we reached the requirements. What wasn't happening was the film festival wasn't improving as such. It was just the standard people come, the film gets seen, but there was no interaction between the filmmaker and the and the public. So, and I had this argument with this lovely guy uh uh what's his name? He's he's he died sadly. He was he was set up the Gerter Institute in uh in in North Korea in North Korea at the time. And um uh gosh, my memory and and but he he said to me, "Look, you've got to keep going with the film festival because what you've got to do is say to them that other festivals do this, but they also do this, this, and the other." and in a way creates a situation where this our festival is slightly embarrassed by not having Q&As's etc. So that's what we've been doing recently. So try to not just have the festival and a whole load of films but actually involve it so that filmmakers have an interaction and of course the public then have an interaction with the filmmakers and and we did it the last festival 20 I think 18 and 19 we had Q&As's and questions were asked by the audience. So you know that's brilliant >> but has it changed a lot? Not really. I mean, it's a it's a great big sort of Chywood style of opening. There's there's there's a brass band very much like you'd see, you know, with a a girl with one of those wordy things and uh they all come on at the beginning and there's the you'll see photographs. I think you'll show them, but it's very glam, you know, there's there's the actresses and actors there on on stage all in their best toss. It has of international sort of it looks looks great. Uh and that's improved. So it's now got that sort of Yeah. the the sort of the chywoods the bling attached to it. And then there's dinner. >> Yeah. No, no. It's super. I mean, and then you all go you go to a dinner and there's fantastic amounts of sort of various types of alcohol from blueberry wine to soju and everybody gets >> blueberry wine. >> Something magic about that drink. There's something in there that shouldn't be in there. >> Uh yeah. No, there's some stories I can tell about that, but probably not focus. >> He does unusual things to people. Um, but yeah, no, it's it's a it's a and then you you you get to meet you go on a boat cruise with the actors and actors and and then it's up to you to interact with them. So, it's pretty cool. >> That's fabulous. So, is that is that boat cruise part of part of the festival experience? Is that just put on for tourists? Is that for all participants? Is that is that like a closing ceremony thing? What what what is the purpose? >> It's sort of midway. They have they they do an all they do sort of basically they're entertaining you. You're given like like as if if you're a tourist, if you're a filmmaker, you get two guides or a guide with you and they follow you throughout the whole the place and there's a set itinerary sites and scenes. But there's also things like it's it's very sort of 1960s like you go to Ta-on Park and there'll be a game of chase with chase the balloon and teams etc. So you have all these rather do sort of filmmakers who are sort of I'm a marvelous filmmaker the having black and white scenes and then they're running around chasing balloons etc. But I love that. I mean, you know, it's very North Korean in that way. They sort of >> Yeah, definitely. And um just to go back to um you saying about there being a kind of Q&A session, um what films were um during the Q&A session, I presume, were they North Korean films or were they foreign? They were foreign films. >> There's very few North Korean films shown. I It is It is a fil I mean, they put one or two on. We we put on a couple of films as well for sort of when we could take tourists and and that's sort of stopped for the moment but then then uh yeah we we'd have a sort of separate itinerary going on alongside it but for filmmakers no they get I mean they weren't in some you know in the early days filmmakers weren't even allowed to see their film if it was at a certain cinema it was only they were to go to the posh cinema which was the Yangakto international cinema house >> but now we got access to more of the more local cinemas. I mean, it's it's there's 14 I mean, the last counting there were 14 cinemas in uh in Pyongyang. That's not including the 3D cinemas, little small cinemas. And um so, you know, they and they get they the film's shown I think through about eight eight of those. So, there's there's a big access. That's why you get these large numbers if a film is popular and there's a sort of black market where you know basically people will want your ticket and people for bend rush in and push people out their way and sitting on >> I noticed that my gosh I was there for the last one in 2019 and this year was a big Bollywood thing like Bollywood was massive um and for all the Bollywood movies I went to two of them and in one of the big cinemas in Pyongyang it wasn't the Angto it was another cinema can't remember the name a bit, but it was another one of the big ones. Um, and I had to literally fight my way through. You would think that maybe they'd see like the only foreign girl and be like, you know, let her in a I was fighting. >> Yeah. No, no, that's so nice. Yeah. Talk about you. >> Yeah. If people are watching online, you will notice a slight disturbance um in that change in the character. My phone just overheated. And >> this film editing atrocious. >> If you're listening in audio, you'd never know the difference if I were to just carry on with my story. So when I was in Pyongyang um yeah I was being pushed and shoved when I got in and to the point at which people were fighting over tickets selling them on the side and when I got into the theater there was clearly there was people sitting in the aisles sitting on the floor down below and that was also where I was expected to sit like there was no seats left obviously then people got up and let me sit because you know they kind of had to >> I I met I met a little boy just at that screening screaming that this this sort this English girl pushed him out of seeing the first foreign film. >> Yeah. No, it's amazing. And you know, they they literally sort of over they flood the cinemas and you have this sort of one person trying to say no, you know, an you know, trying to push everybody out and there's just no coming to watch this. >> So is it some Bollywood films again um this year? So that should be fun. >> Yeah. Nice. But we're really looking I mean you know people it's it's basically the only opportunity >> the general sort of Pyongyang public get to see a foreign film. I mean we were very lucky in 2010 to celebrate the the 10th the 10th anniversary of the sort of British embassy in in North Korea in DPRK that we we got Bennett like Beckham screen throughout the whole broadcast on television. So that was an amazing thing. We did that with the British Embassy and and partly with the Eling Studio. Uh and uh yeah, that was remarkable. But really, this is the only chance that a a a north a sort of Pyongyang citizen will get to see something foreign. So if it's good, you know, they want to see it. And of course, you know, the film should be good. So we we do have a we have a lot of documentaries, but we have a der of feature films of good fun feature films or interesting historical feature films. Um that's a pity. So yeah, there is a shortage of of of the good stuff. >> So I I'm kind of Could you mention two very interesting things there? Um we have to go back to Bennett like Beckham at some point. Um but firstly um I want to ask how accessible is it? So this is a film festival where obviously you have um you know like a grand opening and closing ceremony that's all in one space and that's in the Yangto cinema which is very close to the Yangakto hotel and that's also >> not always I mean the the opening Yang they also got another big cinema on the other side of the Tong River up up by the youth youth hall that that big theater. >> Okay. So presumably the opening and closing ceremonies and the the big events like that are more exclusive and maybe harder to get a ticket to. presumably or it may not be but how easy is it to get a ticket? How accessible is it for the average Pyongyanga? >> Yeah, for for Pyongyang existence for film tickets it's it's you know like I said if if it's a popular film it'll be difficult if it's accessible you you know and it's it's it's sort of so so you're there early you queue you you can see them queuing at booths around the city. So to get to to to actually get to this opening closing ceremony, I'm not sure. I don't know whether you're invited as part of a group or whether you you know your your sort of your Danway, your local uh sort of work unit issues issues you a ticket. Not sure about that. The the opening closing ceremonies are a little bit dull. I mean, they have they show one they're not sort of a bit glitzy for about 10 minutes then you're a bit bored of it. But yeah, >> and if we're not talking um so I am shocked every time I go back to the cinema in Europe, I swear those prices rise with inflation like times a million. It's like €15 for a a cinema ticket. Last time I checked, which is probably a little bit too cheap at the moment anyway. But um how how expensive would it be in Pyongyang? I'm presuming >> don't know what the current prices current prices I don't know but I mean for normally for a cinema so you know we actually ran for a period of time a cinema and we're still involved in that slight way and that was $4 a ticket and then it could go up to $10 and for the festival I think they're around $10. I'm not sure what the this >> quite expensive. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. For a festival, for the international festival. Yeah. But normal tickets. No. No. And you'd also get your work unit to pay. >> And you also wouldn't go to the cinema in the evening. You'd actually take a day off work or afternoon off work. You get a stamp. You have to get a chop from your boss and you go off. They don't it's it's not like uh in Europe or the rest of the world where you know you take your girlfriend for the evening. You normally or you go in the work unit. >> So, you know, they go off. Okay. >> Yeah, it's all relative. I mean, but yeah, prices. Yeah. If you if it's a popular film and and I I think prices were Yeah. $10. That is expensive. Very expensive. >> Yeah. So, it's definitely more a middle class kind of vibe. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um and Bend It Like Beckham. So, how did that make its way to uh DPRK and why did it become so popular? And for those viewers or listeners that don't know, Bennett Like Beckham is a British film that is very sweet. I remember watching it when I was in primary school or early high school. That probably shows my age a little bit. Is it high school time? Maybe. Me too. Um um and it's it's a just a lovely sweet film but it's you know it's not made history in at least in British cinema I wouldn't say what why is it making history in the DPRK. >> Yeah. It all starts with a guy Sean Hinton who who was was CEO of Eling Studios, the famous studios that produce all these sort of classic uh British comedies and various one of which I think in 2002 which was the Lavender Hill mob. took to Pyongyang and that was a sort of a a story of a bank robbery that all goes a bit arai and the lovely story the anecdotal story is that following the screening of that film there was the first bank robbery in in Pyongyang where by someone who was slightly mentally incapacitated whether that's true or not I don't know but any Sean and I met in uh in Pyongyang and uh we then said you well as I said have you got anything else sort of more contemporary and at that time Garinda Chad was the director was uh making Bride and Prejudice and she said, "Yeah, well, why don't you take, you know, our film um Bended Light Beckham." So, in 2004, we talk Bended Like Beckham, massive hit. There's a lovely bit where the I think we talked about this where the audience go sort of sort of go silence because it's where the the the coach says to her, look, you know, either you play football your own dream or you you listen to your parents and you don't do it. and and that was translated as follow the duch idea, you know, self destiny. >> That's so funny. >> And it was beautiful because it was um the whole thing it wasn't subtitled. It was I had had two actors at the at the front of the cinema sort of reading it out. That was wonderful. >> Which is fabulous. So So how did that play out? There was literally two Korean actors who were reading it out at the same time and and kind of >> Exactly. just the sound was dropped a touch and >> that's just amazing. >> No, he's lovely. And um because you know very often when you're when you're watching a film you if you're watching the subtitles you're also missing part of the film. I mean here here in France they they uh they actually subtitle films which is great. In Italy it's it's all dubbed and you also you lose the character I think or you're >> Yeah. No, I can't can't be doing with dubbing. But um so yeah in North they're all for the festival they're all they're all subtitled and then so then what happened is so we we showed the film that was massively popular 12,000 people saw it and then uh then as I was saying for the embassy they we managed to get it broadcast so that that was incredible you know for that film to be seen throughout throughout the country >> that so then that must have been the first foreign film for normal North Koreans all over the country to be able to first and last. Yeah, >> that's Yeah, right. Okay. There's been nothing since. >> No, no, nothing like that. >> Wow. Wow. That's incredible. >> Having said that, Conrad Kim goes flying that that that was broadcast out throughout the country. But yeah, as as was actually the game of their lives. So our first on the football team. >> Tell us a little bit about comrade Kim goes flying in game of our lives for a few minutes then. >> Yeah. Well, the game the lives was a film we shot with Dan Gordon. very much so production in in 2002 about the North Korean football team of 1966 who created the greatest shock in World Cup history by beating the Italians and getting to the quarterfinals and the story was that they they you know on their return home they'd lost they'd thrown their last match and they were all arrested and sent to camp. So, it was a fascinating story of of trying to track down these players and um don't want to give too much away, but the players came to the when we actually had the screening in Pyongyang where they came to the premiere of that um and and and and so yeah, that that sort of that that was a a remarkable film that then the North Koreans obviously liked because it was subject matter of them, you know, beating this Italian team that was broadcast throughout the country and then we made a romantic comedy in in 200 13 121 13 and and that was about a coal miner who wants to become a trapeze artist film and that was also available first on DVD well for cinemas first then DVD and then also around cinemas around the whole country >> and I believe broadcast as well >> super yeah very good um >> likeing da da da available on Vimeo now >> exactly I will put in the show notes both of these films honestly They're they're really great films. Um I love them and I've seen Comrade Kim Goes Flying in the um in the Coro Studio cinema in >> Yeah. >> Is that Yeah. Is that still there? Are we talking about that? >> It's still there. It's unfortunately because of the new sanction rules, it's sort of not our cinema anymore, but it's there. It's And we will be going to the bar very shortly. That's great. >> We not only did up the cinema, we did up the bar joining it. So that's great. Where where actually um Jess just Jess just uh just >> No, just just just stone. She played there. Yeah. This this such a weird story. Um >> Yes. So yeah, because you're going there. So you'll be going to the film festival, which is amazing. Very jealous. I can't be there because I'm in Afghanistan which >> I always always with I always think you know I never say I'm there until you're there because there's always that >> honestly >> we've we've all been there at the airport the vis office and they go >> considering everything that's been happening >> I think Simon and Greg we're all we're all heading off >> a big party or without me and um what what how long will you be there for? Do you guys know what you'll be up to? what you're in for or you have >> no 22nd to 27th. I mean the great thing is you see so we went to Pyongyang for the the marathon and met all the people we know are connected to the marathon that was lovely but because it is a visa issued by the Olympic committee you don't get to see your friends in the tourism industry and you don't get to see your friends in the film industry they keep you separate so now I'll be able to see all my friends who I haven't seen for five years but have been on the phone with every month >> in Pyongyang so that's going to be wonderful but we're all five years sort of older and missing a bit something. So that'll be that'll be the first and Korean blunt. They'll just say you are an old. >> Oh my gosh, I hugged um one of my very good colleagues at the airport and it was like oh my gosh, how did you get so chubby? And also, oh my gosh, how are you still single? Like literally those were the first two things. How did you put on weight and how are you still single? I'm >> Yeah, that's ladies. >> Wow. It does. Yeah. Yeah. There. But if it's anything like the KITC guides, they will have not changed at all. Somehow we age so much and they I they have deaged. >> No, they they've got a special refrigerator they just go into. >> Really? I have no idea. >> Anyway, um getting back on track. So um I'm wondering about the tastes of um you know the Koreans at these film festivals. Um you know why Venet Like Beckham and why Bollywood? Like why are these things popular? What kind of film do do the Koreans usually like watching? Um, I mean, obviously it's very different to what they're used to being what to watching, but you know, why why why do certain films get popular? What are the tastes of the average Korean that you've noticed? >> Yeah, I can't I mean I I've seen numerous films. So, Mr. Bean was for humor just blew them away. Mr. Bean the disaster movie which is actually set in America and had the first sort of side long nude or something. Anyhow, that which was kept in. It was surprising. >> And uh and of course, you know, Benny like Beckham sort of crosses into sort of homosexuality and various other sort of all sorts of uh issues, but perhaps they're sort of I think you know through clever sort of subtitling they avoid these sort of things and explain them away. But I you know I think there's certain certainly different tastes among you know like anywhere but a good entertaining film is very popular. So this is why Bollywood films are so popular because you know for the boys it's pretty girls and pretty girls probably and uh for the the girls it's pretty boys and lots of dancing and singing and of course actually every Korean likes singing. I'm sure I probably can't say that anymore but um there are but that's probably the reason why people go. It's not not necessarily for the strong story line. Um and Benny like storyline um great fun film you know sort of opens people's minds and things um bride and prejudice is popular there's all sorts we've had science sort of science films sort of not science fiction but um there's a lovely Russian film Sputnik I think which sort of went out you know the rescue of of the one of the the early space stations fascinating people I mean a variety just like anywhere where else you know some people will like certain things and as as you you know yeah North Koreans are they vary from black to white you know they they some like some serious stuff >> so there is but yeah I mean you just don't get for the documentaries you just get fewer people >> right >> it tends to be so there >> and how how about um things like censorship and what is actually allowed um you know you'll notice it sometimes with western films in China and things, if you ever use Chinese apps, then they'll take out certain scenes or or just remove certain bits and things like that, that are a bit too rounchy or a bit too spicy. Um, is there anything like that that goes on for films that are accepted into the film festival or is there films that are just not accepted flat out? >> Yeah, I think there's certainly films accepted flat out. Uh, absolutely. And then films with a little bit of orangeiness that can be sort of I mean they used to put a you know literally sort of like put a sort of something like that in front of the projector during that bit that py go dark hear the voices manual that's excellent >> yeah and for bendy beckon there were little bits supposedly cut I couldn't tell where they were but I mean it was pretty much the whole film but again you know what what's being sort of the subtitling they can they can change that to fit you know the certain style of how they see it. Uh the story should be told at that particular point. >> So yeah, you won't you won't there basically no sex. I mean just to give you an idea in North Korea film making there's there's only once ever been a kiss and that was supposedly behind an umbrella. I've never seen that scene yet. So you Yeah. Rainess. No. But but um yeah I mean you look at Bollywood films I mean but the dance scenes so they're there. They're allowed and they're pretty >> from what I I'm told >> hot but uh Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. But but no certainly and vi violence I mean it's interesting the new film in North Korea which is a sort of a hatchet landing in someone's head full on thing. So no and there's there's been there was actually a Swedish I can't remember what the name of the film is to put it up but a Swedish sort of um uh horror movie sort of made the grade as well. So some things surprise you. Hitler's bunker that was there. >> So there's all sorts of bits and pieces that you that would surprise you and you know that's half the fun. I I'll at some point I'll I'll get a list out for you so you can see the films that have shown since 2002. >> But it's and it's international, you know. >> Yeah, I think we have on the website somewhere. >> Yeah, we got we got films from Nepal coming. We've got films from, you know, Bangladesh, Iraq, Iran, everything. It's great. Russia, the whole lot. I mean, it is it's done under under the banner of I think peace, friendship, and independence. And and and it's good. It's great. It's a it's it's it's a very very good thing. I think, you know, sanctions or whatever. This is one of these cultural that unfortunately you know it does affect these sort of cultural project you know events that where we actually have access to do something fairly strong to show a Korean public but because of sanctions etc people are petrified of sending in films so what you end up is with with very little impact uh on the Korean people and that's not you know I think it's it's a great opportunity sadly missed Absolutely. And and honestly when when you put it like that as well and when you consider just how isolated Korea has been for the past especially 5 years with very little foreign contact to be able to have an international film festival like this over like sure we've had the marathon that's a run through the streets right but when you're talking about an extended period of time of you know a few days of film festival and also Koreans just being exposed to the new um the new films and things like that from literally all over the world. It's really quite incredible and these these filmmakers um you know who have films accepted, they'll also be there as well. Um so it's just a really incredible time for >> No, you're absolutely right, you know, engagement. >> Yeah, we I think it's one of these things that should be massively supported, but you know, unfortunately everyone's, you know, scared to death of sending in the film in case it upsets sort of their distri distributors and most of the big films have American distributors. So you know the film get don't get get sent >> and so you've noticed that um with this year of applications around because you helped to facilitate the the applications right and so that's been something that you've noticed is that >> yeah we've had films with and all sorts. Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. And that's >> I mean it's understandable, you know, you know, with the the situation in the way of the world at the moment. I understand that. But but this is such an amazing opportunity that that really by not sending films you you it's it's a one step back as opposed to sort of look, we're showing them because this does go to the Pyongyang public. >> Absolutely. I mean, you know, I I always kind of argue that in terms of North Korea tourism as well, is that, you know, if you're worried about things, you know, if you're worried about um a lot of the stuff that a lot of people worry about, then you're almost taking one step back by by not going and isolating the nation further. >> I think so. I'm also a great believer in serendipity. You don't know what impact Well, you know, if someone's eventually given a choice, and if they haven't been shown that choice, they're not going to make that choice. It's as simple as that. And uh and many time you know we I sort of this isn't sort of you know Hollywood sound bites like oh engagement it's lovely to do but know we've actually seen the impact of that on the ground. It's allowed us to make you know three very big documentaries other other film projects humanitarian aid etc. It's it's the only way you're going to get access. So um yeah we're I'm very pro pro engagement. >> Yeah. No. And you've, you know, with Coro Studio and Coro Tours over these over 30 years now, you've done an absolutely fabulous job. >> It's informing it's informing people allowing people to be informed. What they do with that information is is is up to them. >> That's a uh that's very good. Yes. Um so um okay before we run out of time um and before I steal too much of your time um just what you said before about um films being shown and the filmmaker being there and having a question and answer session. I'm very interested to know if you can remember off the top of your head um what kinds of questions the Koreans might have asked um and which which films was it for? I I only really remember one which was which was again which is for comrade Kim goes flying and uh so up there on the stage and this this there's two there's two lovely stories of this there's one one is from a South Korean and one is from a North Korean the the North Korean a lady stood up and said on the bus are those her shoes I thought that's a very weird are they are they the actress's real shoes and what it is is that you notice that in farms that that if you go to sort of corporative farms the the blue shoes with the white rubber. >> No, they actually have secondhand shoes there. So, you know, some people have shoes that you sort of take for best and then you you sort of can borrow or buy, I think. So, it was, you know, with these actually these posh she changed from the the blue pumps and she slips them on to sort of a pair of sort of black sort of pointy shoes with a bit of heel and uh and this was, you know, are they were they hers? And so it's a very bizarre question but sort of made more sense when you realized that there was this idea that she could have picked them up at the farm store. So because these were, you know, shoes that would be only really be available from Pyongyang. So did she do that? So that was quite a confusing one but an interesting one. And just general questions about you know the actors. There's a one of their favorite heroes was uh is is in the scene. So he's back and they one of them said he's looking a lot older now and that's it's not really a question and answer but Hong Kong sort of so I say that's yeah that's >> again >> they're just so strange >> so Ron Ho is the actor he was he was the he was the he was absolutely adored in there's a lovely film Honkil Dong just before the collapse of the Soviet sort of world in in in the ' 89 in Poland he became the the massive hero and and in in in Poland he's just known and loved. Um, and then the other one was I suppose one of the best questions I've ever had was we in North in in Busousan film festival shown comrade Kim and it was the first time we' shown it was shown a film had ever been shown to a public audience. So it's the first time in South Korea a North Korean film shown to a public audience as opposed to an invited audience. And a guy stood up and we were waiting. Oh god, here we go. You know, how can you make propaganda la? And he just stood up and said, "It's nice to know that grandmothers in the north, sorry, it's nice to know that mother-in-laws in the north are the same as they are in the south." And that was just that was >> that's really sweet. >> So transcends, you know, it's >> Yeah. And it just goes to show the sentiment of um which you know wherever I travel doesn't matter whether it's North or South Korea or Afghanistan and North Korea people are more the same than they are different. >> Yeah. I always respond. >> Um, and how about um the reactions of um, you know, Korean audiences? If you've ever observed that over the years, has there been any striking reaction or any surprising reaction that you've noticed um to um any any foreign films that you've seen? >> I think I think the the biggest reaction and I've got a photograph I'll send you and you'll see it. It's three photographs I just lent behind. As people watching Mr. been and and in Korea if you laugh you know it's often put your as a woman you put your hand over your mouth or in Japan work >> bursting out it just just uncontrollable you know I mean slapstick sort of you know Mr. comedy. They loved it. I don't need to say anymore. You just need to see the photographs. So, it's just wild. And then when they come out, back to the normal >> straight face, whatever. So, it's a release and which is what cinema is anywhere. It's an escape. >> Um, >> let me send me that photo. I'll try and put it up on the screen for those that are watching um on video. It sounds excellent. Very um just human. >> Yeah, very human. Um, and is there any like uh kind of standout memory from the past from a past festival? Anything like an audience reaction, a screening that went well unexpectedly or went badly unexpectedly or a moment that stands out for you? Anything like that? >> Yeah, the the whole thing is that it's the whole experience is is so you can't really explain it. It's the most it is the most unusual film festival in one minute. In one way you're sort of treated like a kid because you're just dragged around everywhere. It's not you if you go to a normal film festival you're going to meet filmm I mean that's interesting meeting your own filmmakers but the experience you're having in Pyongyang like anytime you go to Pyongyang is the most probably the most unusual experience you're going to have unless you're on the moon. Uh so so it's it's in in itself it's remarkable. I mean every every element in it is remarkable. Nothing stands out at the moment. I mean we did I suppose one of the lovely thing um we did was we had an afterparty for comrade Kim goes flying and that would premiered in Pyongyang and we had all the actors and actresses together and and you know Hanjong Sim and the the girl who plays Comrade Kim and Ryong Ho the actor there and it was like a real after party and you know Koreans you know smoking and drinking and having fun is is what they is what they like and so yeah that That was fun. And then as we left the as we left the cinema, that's the thing I suppose interesting is, you know, they do have in North Korea, people know actors and actresses. They do have stars and they are, you know, they're sort of held in in respect. You know, people acknowledge and you see, you know, see their friends say, "Oh, look, it's it's oh, it's what's and that." >> Did you ever see a North Korean ask ask an actor for their autograph? Is that something? >> Yeah. No, that's happened. The most beautiful thing I mean better than an autograph was with Conrad Kim. She was she's actually a trapeze artist uh and we we when we we when we auditioned we wanted to have an actress rather you but but in fact realized that if we're going to also film someone on the trapeze it's probably not good to put an unexperienced actress sort of 34 in air and watch her fall to her death. So we we trained we trained um this acrobat but for a long time she was 31 or so we' taken her to Italy and and she was still single because she's you know working so hard and all and then her her she was in she's one of the girls on the bun in the mass games who does that massive flight across the whole of the on an elastic bungee instead of dropping downwards it's long ways >> and um >> she she survived but but was never married and then because of the film. Uh, a guy waited for her at the back door and said, "I've seen on the film. Can I walk you home?" And a year later, she was pregnant and had a >> to that guy. >> We did that. >> Oh my god. So, yes. So, so filming. Oh my gosh. That's >> And then also there's a massive intake, you know, kids wanting to join the circus. Don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but it was it was fun. So, yeah, film is powerful. Film film influences people and and those are firsthand experiences. >> Film finds you a husband husband. >> Can I act in your next movie? >> Excellent. Oh, that's beautiful. Oh, maybe in um in our last um five or 10 minutes or so, we can talk a little bit about um the the practicalities of it, like how are films selected? Um and and how do how does a filmmaker submit a film? And then I understand that once a film is accepted, then the filmmaker is allowed to go as well to the film festival, invited to the film festival. Are any actors or any part of the film also invited? A little bit about the logistics. Yeah. So, so if for next year if you if you've got a film or you know of anyone with a film and preferably a feature film as opposed to a documentary or a short I mean or an animation they're all accepted. It's just you a good feature film is really what the audience I think it's what the film festival want because otherwise it looks more like a documentary film festival and and features are you know also what the public like again it's storytelling. So, um, uh, you you first of all, yeah, you you send in an application and and it can be your film or someone else's film and make sure they put you down as the second person because the, you know, as an assistant or what have you. Um, because on the form that allows you if it's the film's accepted two members of of the film, so that would be director or producer or an actor, an actress, I'd love to have them come along. Um, and then you can also sort of get in as a, you know, sort of someone who made the coffee for the film. Um, if you're a filmmaker yourself, yeah, just come in, bring a member of the crew. You don't get your international flights paid. As I said earlier, you you but you get all your landed costs. So, there's no cost once you once you've paid your flight and your visa, you're in. And uh, and it's an, you know, the week of your life. Um, but uh, so yeah, it's a basic form right to us. Yeah, we I'm sort of taking applications now, although officially it doesn't open till July, but we'll we'll happily sort of if films are are being made now or close to finishing, send us the forms. Um, and then basically you get yourself to Beijing. Um, we will help as best we can. Uh, it's a little bit confusing. So that's one thing we're very good at is getting you to Beijing and then into the embassy where you'll get your your visa um put into your passport and you will be then just need your air corer flight and you're away. So when you when you when you arrive in Pyongyang this is a sort of interesting thing is that there is one DCP projector. This is a digital sort of cinema projector which which can be it's basically like a like a hard drive but it's it's uh a way of protecting your film. In North Korea we've only got one there's only one DCP which we took in uh years ago before sanctions. So that's awkward because also taking a DCP into China is very difficult. So the Koreans are now saying send us movie files whatever. But of course filmmakers don't like sending unprotected files. So this is a very difficult situation that we're we will be speaking to them about. But um >> yeah, at the moment we do screeners with with the oldfashioned way with uh watermarks on them or or you know part of the film missed out so it's not the whole thing. Um but that is that is an issue getting films to them because sanctions plus own limitations. We actually are screening films by Vimeo. So our colleagues in Pyongyang uh will actually be able to see a film for the first time on their own through Vimeo, but that's only one screening. Um it then has to be sent around the other members of the committee. So it's it's not ideal, but it means that the film will be accepted that way. >> It's yeah, it's it's um it's difficult. It's they haven't sort of modernized caught up with the the world has moved on digitally the way you can protect your film now. So it's it's tricky. Yeah. >> But yeah, it's pretty pretty pretty simple, you know, pretty simple process. They like your film and and you want to go, you go. >> Easy. Yeah. And the the people in um in Pyongyang, the there's a committee who then decides what film is accepted and obviously who wins. Is there a first, second, third? Are the prizes things like that and cerees for different there's sort of there's different categories of prizes etc. best director, best music, best movie, best documentary, short film, etc. There's a whole list of that that stuff. So, that's quite fun. If you win something, we won the best director. It's great. I haven't got all I've got is a sort of blow up North Korean rocket behind me. I haven't But I have got somewhere along the line. I have >> Is that as a gift that you got or what? >> Yeah. No, no, you can buy those. Classic just I think that's very harmless rocket. It lands on you, it just >> harmless. Anyhow, um uh but um yeah. Yeah. So there's then there's also an international jury turns up. So one of our friends Brigittita is going to be on that and they will be judging the films along with a North Korean. So the jury is international. It's not a it's not a North Korean um >> okay >> jury. So so that's that's so but the committee who decides the film is is purely Korean and then the jury is international and will judge it. >> Very interesting. You know, we've sent quite a few judges, you know, we've uh So, if you want to be a if you have a film background and interesting being a judge, that's also a possibility. I mean, it's hard. >> Have you ever been a judge before? >> No. And I don't want to be. >> No, it's not fun. >> No fun. But no, I mean they're they're actually they wouldn't they wouldn't accept me. They would they they want film, you know, film academic. Yeah. Okay. >> Very solid film background, not just filmmakers. So, um, yeah, it's a difficult job and, uh, >> yeah, >> I don't doubt it. Okay, my last question for you. Is there any insider knowledge you can give us on what we might expect to see in uh, the Pyang Film Festival, International Film Festival for 2025? >> Uh, yeah, I've got I've actually actually Oh, God, I remind you I've got actually said we've already some films have been accepted. >> Um, but no, I'm not going to say anything. No. [Music] Yeah, sorry. Um, it's uh, no, I'm not going to tell you this. Uh, but if anyone is listening and still hanging on the end of this podcast, it's up to you basically to find us a decent film. So next year I've been speaking to a few people and uh who made some classics and next year could be a big big big one with classic two films from Britain made in the 80s by someone we talked to someone we talked to North Korea recently and and made a documentary with >> so I won't say but we're trying we're trying hard to get one >> that would be amazing. Okay I won't >> we'll see. So yeah, there's the we'll see what the situation is. And it's all to do >> I won't say the name here, but if you've been listening to this podcast and if you follow anything about North Korea, you'll probably know what we're talking about. So that's very exciting. >> So we'll see. I'll I'll maybe we'll do a sort of a quick sort of 10-minute Well, we'll make a we'll make some a little feature thing so you can show that of what it was like to be at the festival. >> Absolutely. The camera position as as Zoe tells me camera. I'll have one of you on vertical, one of you on on um on landscape and we'll we'll be posting on you on YouTube as well. All right. Anything you want to plug or say for the last 30 seconds? No, I mean I mean this thing again is it is members of the public who who you will know a filmmaker or know someone who will know a filmmaker and put the word around because uh yeah and then hopefully next year if tourism opens, you can also come yourselves uh and and uh we'll we'll do a tour around it which is uh yeah interesting. >> Thank you very much. >> Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Nick. >> Cheers. Sorry. Lots of love. Yeah, because like a little [Music]