Are Downhill Bikes Pointless? | Enduro Vs DH

Are downhill bikes pointless? Are enduro bikes just a compromise? Or neither? Are they some of the best bikes out there? All right, Rich, you fired me up. It's time to thrash this one out. Right, we've got us a bit of a discussion on our hands here. Now, I come from the world of enduro racing, EWS and whatnot, and I genuinely believe that the enduro bike is hands down the best bike out there. I love your belief, Rich, but this machine, I just absolutely love it. Of course, I've raced enduro and downhill, so I know everything. I honestly think downhill bikes are hard to beat, so we'll get into it. All right, I get what you're saying. I think the problem is that there's a kind of horses for courses kind of thing going on with downhill bikes. They're quite specific. I also think that with a lot of modern-day downhill tracks, you could still get down them pretty flipping well on an enduro bike. Do not dismiss the downhill bike. I think you're in for a shock, Rich. Right, enduro bikes are obviously really capable. I think as mountain bikers around, we've got a lot to be grateful for because they've helped push on all sorts of bikes. However, when it comes to smashing downhills fast and having fun, I find that a downhill bike is next level. It's now better than I am for sure, and I can ride it to my limits and that's not the bike's limits. I am more excited if I'm going to the bike park with a downhill bike in the back of the van, I'm really excited to ride it. It's not exactly the same feeling with an enduro bike. No, you're right, but I think there are more similarities than we probably think between these two bikes. Before we hit the trail, quick game of bike top trumps. Let's do it. Let's play. This is my downhill bike, a Canyon Sender, and take a look at it, you won't find a better looking mountain bike. 200 millimeters of travel, front and rear with a carbon fiber frame. Don, it's nice, but check out this, my enduro bike, my Orbea Rallon, 167 mil out back, 170 mil up front, but it could run a 180 and a carbon frame as well. The downhill bike only weighs 17 kilograms, pretty decent for a downhill bike, and has a super slack head angle of 63 degrees. Mine, on the other hand, it's a little bit lighter, buddy. Yes, we're talking about 15 kilograms here. Guess what? My head angle is only 63.5, half a degree steeper. Both pretty slack and built for speed, but check this out, my reach on the medium Sender is 460 millimeters, but crucially, I can change that. It comes with headset cups, so I can go up and down eight millimeters on my reach if I choose to, or if it suits the track I'm riding. Yes, all right, you got me there. There's not much adjustability on mine, size large with a reach of 485 mil. My bike is long and slack. I have gone up eight mil with the reach cups, and it's got a 1274-millimeter wheelbase on the medium-sized frame. That's pretty big. Yes, not bad, buddy. 1260 is the wheelbase on my slightly steeper, bigger enduro bike, but what about seat angle? On mine, 77 degrees, giving a really good all-day riding position. Don't talk to me about seat angles, Rich. Mine is 65, but it does not matter on a downhill bike. We're not peddling this thing uphill. Obviously, I do love downhill bikes, and now I am a massive downhill race fan. I don't do it anymore, but I love watching it. I particularly love being able to go to the races sometimes and have a poke around inside these pits and look at these one-off bikes. Someone like Specialized, the biggest bike manufacturer in the world, are making these one-off bikes for their race team for the most talented riders in the world to really push the levels of their riding, and what these bikes can do. Actually, I love seeing the way that even bikes off the shelf, like this Camry Sender, is completely rider-tunable. You can change the chainstay length in the wheelbase, of course, to see how stable you want it. You can change the size of the rear wheel. You can change the reach. Most bikes off the shelf now, you can do that. You can even change the shock linkage, what that rear suspension feels like. You can even tune it to different types of racetrack that you're on. I think I'd like to see that come to other style of bikes. It should trickle down to enduro bikes, but for me, it doesn't feel like it's quite there yet. Or is it? Good points, Don. I'll grant you that. Look, enduro racing as a format has been around for what? Over 15 years probably now, and it's this format that's helped progress these kinds of bikes. Now, look, if we think about these kinds of bikes, they filter down into trail bikes and XC bike. That technology is very much present in those types, but actually, these bikes have evolved themselves from what they were. 29-inch wheels all around sometimes, they're mixed. We've got dropper posts. We've got large ratio cassettes with a chain ring up front, allowing us to do many miles on the bike. We've still got plenty of travel. Big stoppers, big 200 mil, 203 rotors and stuff. We've got plenty of power there. Look, I've even got a little mount for my computer at the top there, so I can keep track of my rides. You can't do any of that on a downer bike. Not to mention grip levels. We're running very similar wheels with very similar tires. I just think it's the pinnacle of where bikes are at at the moment. Of course, there are compromises. This is no all-around bike. I've got a very limited range of gears, which works for going downhill. There's no frame storage or anything messing about like that. There's no dropper post. The angles make this thing pedal terribly up a hill. It is made for going down a hill, but that does not make it pointless. Rich, we've come to a favorite of mine. This is Racetrack WBike Park. I reckon we're going to see some differences down here and possibly play in my favor as well. Or will we? There's only one way to find out. All right, Don, we've had to pull over because, sad times, you were pulling away from me a bit on some of those sections there. I know you're a good rider and you're on the downer bike, but I think the downer bike is definitely advantageous on something like that. Don't you reckon? I think so, yes. It's not crazy technical. It's just quite risky to ride fast. The geometry is not crazy, except for length. This bike is longer, more stable. It's got bigger travel, quite a lot of bigger travel really. I always think a triple clamp fork doesn't quite flex, even though it's 38. You sometimes feel like this absorbs rather than flexes. It all adds up to me feeling like I could ride that quickish with still staying well within the limits of the bike and the bike helps me. If I was like a pro down racer, they would be charging down that, but I don't need to. It feels like I'm quite safe, even though it is pretty rough and horrible. Yes, yes. No, you're absolutely right. It is a pretty chunky rough section with a drop at the end of it there. I really had to back off a touch coming into that drop, whereas you plowed on. I also feel like I have bigger margin for error with, and we've got the same tires, but more travel means that I have to hit things harder to risk. On a short travel bike, if you're on short, again, a trail bike, they're still capable, but you have to limit your speed because you're going to rim out. You're going to damage tires. All right, onwards. Yes, I love it so far. Let's get some speed, shall we? Hey, I'm done. How was that? Yes, good, isn't it? It's nice to hit some jumps. Yes, I think downhill bikes, I love hitting jumps, but you need the speed or the gravity to justify it. If the jumps are flat, these bikes are just a nightmare to pump, but if you have it, still, they are the dream. You do need the gradient. You need the pace on something like that because you need momentum and energy on your side to maneuver it around, right? Yes, and I feel like I can hang off a downhill bike a bit safer in the air, although I'm not doing it much, but you know what I mean. Or denser. If you were to come up short, say, twice in a row, it doesn't really matter. That is true. But you've got to give it, I think, to the enduro bike in that sense. You can throw them around nice and easy. You haven't got so much suspension, it's absorbing all your energy. I also think we're heading into woods now, so it's tighter, a more maneuverable, agile bike. It's probably going to feel a bit livelier, probably a bit faster. Hello. Nice, bud. I love it. I love it. That was flying. So we need to chat then. Are downhill bikes pointless? Don't talk to me, Rich. Neil, don't come out with those attitudes. I love it. It is somewhat impractical most of the time. Let me hold that. You take your helmet. Actually, I love having it. I'm in the privileged position that we are lent these bikes to use, but it is one of the most exciting days of my year. If a downhill bike shows up in a box, I love it. Yes, you're right. I'm more convinced. It's been a long, long, long, long time since I've ridden a downhill bike. Probably 12 years. Enduro bikes are so good, I've never needed one, but riding with you again today, hammering through these tracks, I'm like, man, that does look good. They're definitely not pointless. Take it for a spin, Rich. You know what? We're at Derby Bike Park. There's always some pros hanging around. I've said the same thing to everyone. I'm like, I'm on the downhill bike, and all of them go, oh, yes, great, because they all spend most of their time on enduro bikes, but when they ride their downhill bikes, they love it. Anyone I know who's got a downhill bike, my friends, it's their second bike. It's not the only bike they ride. It's a bit extravagant, but it's a race machine that you can own and keep in your garage and enjoy riding. Well, that's it. Technology, I genuinely actually do think, trickles down from this kind of racing into these bikes. They scale it down. They don't look as cool. They don't look as cool, I'm afraid, Rich. What? No. Well, on that note, let us know what you think in the comments down below. Which bike looks cooler? There's obviously only one answer, but you know. It's been an absolute pleasure of a day, Neil. Yes, and more downhill bikes riding to come, that's for sure. Yes. Don't forget, like and subscribe to the channel. Obviously, YouTube memberships is now well and truly available. Click on the right buttons and you can be part of the squad. From us, from Delvey, we'll see you later.