Was U.S. Intervention in Venezuela Necessary? Franklin Camargo Speaks Out | Real Talk | PragerU

Venezuela used to be the most successful country in Latin America. How did it [music] become a country where people are eating their pets, where 90% of the population are poor? [music] Over 60% of the population are extremely poor. Socialism >> Franklin Kamargo, you work for us here at PragerU. You fled Venezuela. There is no better person [music] to speak about what's happening right now. >> The US didn't kidnap a president as some people are saying. They captured a terrorist. They captured an indicted drug trafficker. >> Did somebody betray Maduro? >> Someone had to do it. The question is who, right? So that's Rodriguez is a Marxist. She's radical. No reasons to actually trust her. Maybe she was involved in this. >> Do you think Maria Machado has a chance of winning should she run? >> Look, Marina Macho has the support of most of Venezuelans, but if Marina Macho right now goes to Venezuela, she's going to be arrested. There is no sovereignty in Venezuela. >> Ola Franklin. Can we make Venezuela great again? >> We can make Venezuela great again. >> I bet you this has been the busiest month since you moved from Vene Venezuela to the United States. >> Yes. You have no idea. I've done so many press hits in English, in Spanish. Everyone is calling me. Everyone is texting me. But, you know, I'm I'm really happy right now. >> Yeah. So, you're happy? >> I'm really happy. You know, I'm working really hard. that uh I'm having one of the best weeks of my life. One of probably this going to be the best month of my life because something that maybe I could imagine but it was just a fantasy but not even not even a fantasy. The fact that someone who did so much to destroy my life, to destroy my family, to destroy the country I was born in is going to spend the rest of his life in prison is it's just fantastic. >> Yeah. I guess we'll we'll see what they end up deciding. You know, for those who are watching and are are new to the conversation about Venezuela, which you know, we can expect that most people go about their lives and they don't know that much about the background of your country. Uh they might be surprised suddenly the United States is getting involved in uh in Venezuela. Can you give us a little bit of a history? >> Yes. First, Venezuela is a country that you should be concerned about. It's a country that is only 3,000 miles away from Florida, which means that I mean Miami is closer to Karakas, Venezuela, than it is to Los Angeles. >> So, we actually need to know about Venezuela and know their links with China, Iran, Russia, and how important that is to the United States and to our national security. Venezuela used to be the most successful country in Latin America. probably people when they hear Venezuela, yes, now they hear Maduro, his capture, people are poor, people are suffering. But why? Well, actually, it wasn't always like that. It used to be the richest country, the fourth largest economy, GDP per capita in the 1950s. And it also has the largest oil reserves in the world. How did it become a country where people are eating their pets where 90% of the population are poor over 60% of the population are extremely poor? Socialism. So for a long time it was a successful country when we had actually American companies investing in Venezuelan oil. People say Trump wants to steal Venezuelan oil. The US wants to loot Venezuela. Historically, they did businesses for a long time. And when that happened, Venezuela was actually so successful, a country full of opportunities, for investment for foreigners. Europeans would go to Venezuela and they would move there and they would have a great life. But then they thought that they were rich and they took freedom for granted. They took wealth for granted. They thought they could try socialism because yeah, it didn't work in China. It didn't work in Cuba. Cubans were warning Venezuelans. My mom always tells me this. Cubans were telling Venezuelans like, "Do not vote for socialism." Chavez, that guy, he sounds like Fidel Castro. You should be careful. Venezuelans were like, "We have oil. That's not going to happen to us." So right now, Venezuela has the largest refugee crisis in the Western Hemisphere. >> 25% of Venezuelans have left the country. So that's like in the US, probably 85 million people live in the country. not because they hate their country but because they need to leave it in order to survive so they don't go to prison so they are not killed or so they don't die from you know not eating. >> So let's get into history. Hugo Chavez gets elected in 1999 on the platform that he's going to give more social benefits to Venezuelans, that they're going to have free education, that they're going to have free health care, that other countries, Western countries are robbing Venezuela of its oil, and therefore they're going to bring it all inhouse and they're going to manage all in-house. Did your parents ever talk to you about that era? Did they did they believe that? Did they vote for him? >> Yeah, they didn't. And actually my mom was he she he never liked them. And my parents they both were very always like very pro America. Let me tell you an interesting story. Their honeymoon was in Washington DC. They always embraced American values. They liked capitalism. >> Were they unique? >> Yes. I would say they were probably unique for sure. At least at that moment that's why Chavez won. So this guy, you know, he first tried to remove a Democrat-elected president in 1992 by force. He was a member of the military. He went to prison because he failed. Then he was pardoned by a democratic socialist president, by a center-le president. Then he ran for office. Something also that is very important to mention is that before Chavis took power, Venezuela was already trying some socialist policies. It was like democratic socialism, like soft socialism, some welfare state, some economic intervention, some statism. That didn't work. It caused some inflation, poverty increase. People, businessmen were not investing as much as they used to. And then Chavez said, "You know what? We're not really trying socialism. We need to try the right way. We're going to go after the rich. We're going to go after corporations. were gonna go after American imperialism and he did it. So I like to say that actually Chavez accomplished many of his promises. He promised equality. Well, if you have 90% of the population living in poverty, probably that's as close as you can get to equality, >> right? Everybody is equally poor. >> Equally poor. Equally miserable. So my parents, they never liked him. So I grew up in a place where and this is the interesting fact about Venezuela when you are you know when you grew up in that system in that regime is that everyone who is older than you would tell you how great the country used to be >> how successful how >> you never saw it successful you were born into it. >> Yes. And I never saw it. But my parents would always tell me about all the opportunities. And then you would find people who were older from Portugal, from Spain, from Italy, even from the Middle East, and they would tell you, "I came to this country 30 years ago, 50 years ago, because this country was great. I was in my own country, and I used to hear about Venezuela. Oh, I can go there and make my life better." But that's not the country I saw. Socialism was destroying my country slowly. And that's everything I saw. That's everything I have seen in the country I was born in. >> What did you see? Describe to me your childhood in Venezuela because you live here now in the United States. So you can really compare it and describe to a westerner. What is it that we're not seeing that's happening to the child who grows up in Venezuela? >> So first is that people are concerned about things that are not even a concern in the United States. I talk about pover poverty rate in Venezuela, but it's a level of poverty that sometimes you cannot even imagine. >> We can't even comprehend it. >> Exactly. This is not about getting the oh, I cannot get the new iPhone or I cannot go to Europe this year. No, no, no. You don't know what you're talking about. This is about people not being able to eat. This is about people having to eat their pets. This is about parents stopping from, you know, getting steak or eating food and just maybe finding some rice and eggs and very bad quality food in order to survive. This is about people losing weight. In 2016, I was still in Venezuela. I was already a political activist. There was a very famous term. It was the Maduro diet. >> People were losing weight. This is not a myth. I'm not exaggerating. If you would walk into, let's say, a store, a supermarket, and what would you see or what would you not see? >> Empty shelves, lawn lines, and you were, if you had some money, because many people didn't have money at all. You were only able to purchase some basic products if it was your turn. So basically we have like something that is like social security like an identification number and the government would regulate what days you can buy food. So let's say your social security number in the Venezuelan the Venezuelan ID your number your identification number ends on 9. You can only buy products on Thursdays and you can only buy maybe two packs of sugar or one milk or one steak. They would regulate that because there was scarcity and the scarcity was a result of government regulations. How does it feel? Well, you would see people that probably you haven't seen in weeks, months or a year. They would be skinnier. The average Venezuelan lost 24 pounds in 2016. This is a real data and you would see it. You would witness this. People were skinnier and you wouldn't even ask, "Oh, are you working out?" No, you could tell. You knew already they were skinnier because they were hungry and they were hungry because of the socialist policies. >> Can you describe the transition between Chavez and Maduro? At this point you were already a young teenager. >> Yeah. 14 13 14. Yeah. >> Do you remember it? So Chavez dies. Maduro is the VP. He becomes the new leader. Did things change significantly after that? So Chavez had cancer and there was a lot of secrets in the government about is he really sick? How sick he is? He went to Cuba in December 2012 to have a surgery and for 3 months he didn't appear at all. He didn't make a statement. He didn't give an interview. He was healthy. He was good. But you didn't know anything. So there was a rumor that he died. And then in March 2013, they announced finally that he actually died. And I know this is not very Christian, but I have to be honest and and I also need to understand how a kid feels in a context like a dictatorship in a regime. I was 14 and when I saw the news that Chavez had died, I was happy. I was actually happy because I felt that someone that was destroying my life, that was making my life worse, that was going after people that I love, at least wasn't in this world anymore. As a young Venezuelan man, were you unique in your sentiment that you didn't like Chavez or were other young men >> more loyal to him? >> So at that point the popularity of the regime was very low already. And this is the thing about socialist and socialism at the beginning a lot of people like he won democratically. >> He run and he won sadly because he promised many things that were you know attractive to some people. But when you actually witness the bad results of those policies, at least most of the individuals as they want to have a good life, they start rejecting that. However, it was too late already. There were not democratic tools to remove him from power. So when he died, especially my generation who grew up in that context, even though some individuals, some people could think, well, you didn't know any better, so how do you feel? No, we knew that wasn't good because it's just human nature. When you cannot express yourself, you know that is not right. when you know that you don't have food to eat, you know that it's not right. And of course, also in the in the age of social media, you can compare your country to other countries. In my example, and you know my my my my story, I was able to come to the US when I was a kid. I was only six. I didn't know anything about politics. I didn't understand economics. But wow, what a contrast. I was astonished by the differences between a free society and an oppressed society. I was amazed by the grocery stores. You were asking me about the grocery stores. I was amazed by the grocery stores. So at that point when Chavez died, most of Venezuelans, especially young Venezuelans, they didn't like him already. But then and there was some hope. Maybe if he died, this mafia, this dictatorship, this regime is going to be weaker than ever. Well, it's a mafia. You might remove the head, but the mafia is still there, especially when they're linked to China, Russia, Iran, Cuba. So then Maduro took power and you know some people like to ask the question was he better or worse than Chavez? He was just different and he had to deal with different contexts and different complications as well and different challenges but at the end Chavez was the one who started the revolution. Some people like to whitewash Chavez because he didn't have to deal with many of the things that Maduro had to deal but he was the one who started the revolution. He was the one who destroyed institutions. He was the one who made Venezuela the country that it is, which is a miserable country sadly. >> Yeah. I mean, the way you describe it is is true. I think many of us perceive life under Maduro for Venezuelans being much worse than Chavez. Uh, mostly because finally we got the footage of the food lines and people who like you who fled and came here and told us the stories. Did Venezuelans get a sense that China, Iran, Russia are involved in Venezuela? Because when Chavez ran originally, it was an anti-West sentiment, right? It's like America is robbing us of our oil. We're going to detach ourselves and we're going to be free. Except you sold yourselves to other nations, dictators, worse nations. Right? So, we see this looking from the outside. But did Venezuelans who are living under Maduro realize that they basically chose China versus the United States of America? >> Yes. And I have a fact for you and Venezuelans know this. It's not just that I, you know, I'm very well informed based on what I do. No, Venezuelans know this as a true fact. We talk about Venezuela as the country that has the largest oil reserves. Yes. Do you know that 80 to 90% of that oil goes to China? And China doesn't even pay for it because Venezuela, the Venezuelan regime owes money to China and they pay it through oil. And Venezuelans know this. And this is funny because in the last few days, in the last week, we have been talking about, oh, Trump wants to get Venezuelan oil. He wants to loot your oil. And American leftists were on the left, they were talking to Venezuelans, and they're like, you don't care about that. You don't care that Trump wants to steal your oil. Do you think that Venezuelans are getting oil? like like how do you actually think that that looks like Venezuelans are starving and that oil is being given to China. >> Why? >> And because there are some uh economic relationships between China and Venezuela. So China invested money in Venezuela, money that only went to the regime and to the members of the regime and Venezuela is paying that back through oil. There is also intelligence, Chinese intelligence. There is Russian weapons in Venezuela. There are Cuban agents in this operation. 32 Cuban agents were killed by by this successful amazing American operation. So when a leftist who is protesting in New York and he's waving a Venezuelan flag not to support the people of Venezuela but to support a regime in a dictatorship when they ask Venezuelans why don't you care about the oil? Why don't you care about Trump wanting to steal your oil? Well, it's because the oil is been actually stolen by China for many years and and for a long time before the socialist revolution, there was a long history of relationship between the US and Venezuela. And how did Venezuela do back then? It was the most successful country of South America. So, I think it's hard to understand for some Americans or for some people on the left, but Venezuelans actually are right now very pro America. And there is even a joke that you hear um that we do that we make between between Venezuelans even when I was in Venezuela and is that we would call we would refer to the US as the empire sarcastically because that's how Chavis would talk about that's how uh Maduro used to talk about the United States of America. It would be oh have you have you been to the Empire or are you going to go to the Empire for a family vacation? Oh that's great. Yeah, because the empire is evil, you know, it's so evil, but in a sar sarcastic tone because everyone knows that America is a successful country. It's a safe country. It's an ally to freedom fighters. So yes, Venezuelans know what China represents, Iran, Russia, Cuba, and they also understand that right now their biggest allies, those who love freedom, those who want to be free, is the United States and more precisely is the Trump administration. You know, it's interesting as you bring up the allies care, which is a Muslim advocacy group here in the United States, came out against the recognition of Machado receiving her Nobel Peace Prize and also against the capturing of Maduro, of course, now from Venezuela. So I think it's this classic example of this Islamic Marxist alliance that they obviously are unhappy with and those are part of those NOS's that are pumping this information this anti-Trump pro- Maduro information. They want us to continue to support China and the Islamic regimes really taking control over places like Venezuela. >> Yeah. We're like it doesn't make any sense. You know, a trans activist would wave a trans flag and two weeks later would wave a Hamas flag or a Palestinian flag, then two months later is waving a Venezuelan flag defending Maduro. Why is that? It doesn't make any sense. No, it actually makes sense. David Horowitz used to say the issue is never the issue. The issue is always the revolution. This is about fighting the West. The cause, Venezuela, trans issues, Hamas, anti-Israel, propaganda. That's the excuse. That's just a tool to actually put people on the streets fighting against America, fighting against American values. If you actually make people or young people empathize with Maduro, you are actually embracing anti-American values. and is self-destructive because we have talked about so many things but Maduro also caused harm to the American people to US citizens when Lake Riley was killed by a member of Trenarawa that was sent by Maduro Maduro was doing that the Venezuelan regime was doing that he was causing harm to American citizens that was that's why he was indicted in a US uh federal court in southern New York so why are young people in America leftists actually accelerating this or supporting someone who did this because at the end the issue is just an excuse. They are fighting against western civilization. It's all well connected and are the same organizations. The people's forum answer coalition. It's just the same the same politician is Mandani New York City who uh actually condemned uh this uh Trump's operation. Why would he do that? Well, we actually know why. It's just an excuse. It's a tool to fight Western values. is to fight America and it's a very anti-American thing to do. >> When you were living there and your friends who I'm assuming you're still somewhat in touch with. >> Yeah. >> Did you get a sense that there is an alliance with China and the Islamic is it it is it something that you feel in the country versus the way it is felt when you're an ally with the United States? I think when you're an ally with the United States, it feels that way. You there there's a shared language. there's uh shared culture, freedom. Uh did you did it feel different for you when you were in Venezuela? Do you think the residents of Venezuela feel that there is a communist fascist overload? >> Yes, they underestimated it for a while and that's the problem sometimes with population in countries. They underestimate socialism. They under they underestimate these evil empires as Ronald Reagan would call them evil empires. But at the end you realize that you realize that you are not free. You realize that this regime, the people who are oppressing you, they are connected with the most horrible politicians and governments in the world. But when you try to change that is already too late. And that's actually my warning to to Americans and to into free societies and free countries is that don't wait too much. You know, you need to fight back. It's never too early to fight back. those ideas uh they indo the the level of indoctrination the level of anti-American sentiment is something very dangerous why does the left hate America they hate America because American values and American ideas are anti-left is about right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness that's antisocialist that's antisocialism it's you know property rights >> you want to be rich that's fine inequality it's okay if we're all all free and at the end we can all be successful you know we are going to be unequally successful that is anti ant socialist. So that's why they're fighting the left and they're fighting western values. And at the end Venezuelans, they also understand that. So are you actually Venezuelans would be are you actually telling me that we're more free now than American companies are not doing businesses with us? If I'm hungry, if I'm starving, is this uh the the United States an evil empire? When people there are free, they can criticize their government. You know, I have relatives. They they know what I'm doing in the US and they see that I'm doing way better now that I'm here and that I was able to flee. They know that if I had stayed in Venezuela, I would be in prison. So they know who their ally is and they also recognize that China, Russia, Iran, Cuba, they have harmed the they have harmed Venezuela, >> right? So they realize that not only have they been harmed by these countries, but they're being used by these countries to attack the United States. >> Yeah. So, I want to go into your story because I know your story, but your story is quite compelling. You were living in Venezuela. You were in college. You're premed if I recall and you stumbled upon Prageru videos on the internet and I guess I can call it a re-education >> that you received. Just tell us real quick, how did you get from being a premed student who was kicked out of school to a podcaster for Prageru? >> So, as I said, after I could witness the results of a free society, America, I could tell, yeah, you guys were doing something different. You know, I don't know what you guys are doing. That's what six-year-old Franklin thought, but you guys are doing something different. I would like my country to be like that. I would like to live in a country like that one. So you know I was always into politics in some way or another. I grew up in a very political environment. My parents they were business people. They would talked about politics. So when I was a teenager I started to read. I put my eyes on everything I could read. You know Milton Freman ran who is a big inspiration uh for me. And then I was watching videos on YouTube as well and I stumbled across a Prageru video. Uh, it was Dennis Prager on the American Trinity. I didn't speak English back then, right? And it had some Spanish subtitles and the view was about the American Trinity, which basically is what makes uh America great, what it means to be an American and is in God we trust. We understand that there is a God that morality is objective. That what is good is good and what evil, what is evil is simply evil. liberty every individual has the right to be free because we have a god and our rights come from God and unum which is out of many one and it's a amazing principle because it means if you embrace American values you are an American it's not about your ethnicity as some people want to put it nowadays it's it's it's it's not about that it's about your values it's about your assimilation it's about your ideas and that video had a huge impact on me and now tell me that the American dream doesn't exist If I was in Venezuela, oppressed, not being able to speak out, and I was watching a Prageru video, and then I'm here talking to Prageru's CEO, and I'm part of Prageru. That's that is the American dream. So, yeah, I I saw that video. I was reading a lot. I was into politics. I also started college and I was doing political activism. I worked with Maria Korina Machal, the leader of the Venezuelan opposition. >> Oh, wow. >> Yes. I worked for her political movement. And I have pictures with her where I look so young. You have no idea. I look like a kid. I would lead peaceful protests. I would give speeches at college campuses and I even had a debate with a professor which caused me to be expelled from college. >> My case went viral and I was accused of being a terrorist. There is an anti-hate speech law in Venezuela, which basically means that if you speak out against the government, they're going to say that's hateful speech because it's speech that they hate and they would go after you. So, I had to flee. I had to leave Venezuela in order to save my life and what country would be better for me than the country that showed me what freedom looks like and that actually gave me uh moral and political philosophical guide for what a society uh should be like. And now people ask me, why are you still into politics or why do you do what I what what I do, right? And the biggest reason or the biggest thing I could say is not is not to victimize myself. Don't feel sorry for me. I'm having the time of my life. I'm so grateful. I couldn't be more blessed. I'm the most blessed individual here. Really, you guys were blessed to be born here. I was blessed to come here legally and now I spend my time being grateful about this. I talk about this because it's my way to pay back what this country did to me. This country saved my life. I have a cousin who was in prison for two years. He was tortured. I have friends who are political prisoners in Venezuela right now. That wasn't my case. And and I'm very grateful for that. And in a huge part was because I was able to come here. So I also talk about these issues and I talk about politics and I'm into politics. So Americans don't have to go through the same things that my family had to go through. I hear from people like you in Venezuela. They write me um whether through DMs and I know it's a risk for them. I can imagine especially right now it's a risk to to contact us. And so I just want to give a shout out to our friends out there who have been communicating with us and asking us to pray for them and and celebrate with them. And I know what risk it takes. How do you how do you get to the news on what's actually happening out there? So, first, yes, they're at risk by sending you messages because if you're working on the streets, someone that works for the regime, they could just stop you on the streets and ask you for your phone. They would check your WhatsApp or your social media. And if you have been posting content against the regime or pro-America content, they would arrest you and who knows what. So, yes, they're putting their lives at risk. So most of journalists who are Venezuelans, they're either just in prison or they are outside the country. However, they have sources in Venezuela. I even have sources. I have family or friends who are into politics and they get some information that they send to me. So that's the way that you have. But there is no free press in Venezuela. Actually in the in in in the few days right after the operation some journalists were arrested just because they posted information about the operation. They were not even celebrating. They were just basically informing people. It was like 14 15 journalists. >> What are you hearing from them right now? Are they afraid? Are they hopeful? Are they optimistic? >> This is going to sound like a contradiction, but they're afraid and they're also optimistic. Sometimes in the darkest moments is when you can actually see a light. Even though it sounds like a contradiction in terms, right? But what is happening right now with the regime is that yes, they're going after people. There's there's still a brutal repression, but it seems like the regime is weaker than ever. And it's weaker than ever because I mean, we we shouldn't underestimate what just happened. We had the most powerful country in the world going into Venezuela, capturing the head of a mafia. the leader of a mafia, not a government, not a country, a cartel, an indicted narot terrorist. No American died. So now Dela Rodriguez, who was Maduro's VP, she's in power. So Trump can call her and and tell her, "Do what I'm telling you to do or you're going to pay a higher price than Maduro paid." So I think that's a huge incentive and that's a reason to be hopeful. So Venezuelans are afraid, but I have never seen them this hobby. So the VP Deli Rodriguez is relatively new. Do you think she is in control of the situation and do you think she could play ball with President Trump or I mean do do you trust her? Do people trust her? >> No, people don't trust her but we trust the Trump administration and there are reasons to do it not just based on talk but actions. So Desa Rodriguez is a Marxist for for people to understand. She grew up in a Marxist family in the 70s before the socialist revolution. Her father was a Marxist activist, a Marxist terrorist who actually kidnapped an American businessman who was in Venezuela. So that's the the family that she grew up in. She's a Marxist. She's radical. No reasons to actually trust her. She's been working for this socialist regime for two decades. And now she she was the BVP. So it makes sense, you know, she's now the the president, but she's not a legitimate president. That's important to clarify, but she's the de facto uh president. So this is about being pragmatic. A lot of people are asking why no Maria Corina Machal, why it seems like Donald Trump is not really supporting Maria Corina Mach. Look, Marina Machal has the support of most of Venezuelans inside the country and outside the country. But if Marina Macho right now goes to Karakas, she goes to Venezuela, she's going to be arrested. Why? because even though she has the consent of Venezuelans, the army doesn't support her. So it's about having the de facto power. So the alternative that the Trump administration found that I think is is the most realistic alternative is to have those who are still in power right now that can control the army, that can control those repressive evil groups, yes, but that can do what the Trump administration tells them to do. and then in the long term we can have a more political peaceful political transition with free elections and Maria Korina Machow who I appreciate a lot could run. So that's it's a very pragmatic thing to do and I probably find it as the only path to freedom. >> Do you think uh Maria Machado has a chance of winning should she run? I mean you really know her, right? Is she strong enough to lead a country like that one? >> Yes. And and she's the most popular figure right now probably. I mean there cannot be elections right now for a very simple fact if you don't control the army or if you don't have a strong institutions are you really going to trust having electoral an electoral process like Marina Mach cannot even be in the country but after a political transition when Venezuela is you know a more peaceful country and you can actually transition Franklin who does that >> so if you want me to quote Trump it would be Trump it would be him saying we're running the country how do they run the country from Washington DC by having those who are right now in power doing everything that Trump tells them to do. Now there are some political prisoners who have been uh freed. So at least it seems like they're playing ball right now. Is it going to work in the long term? You know, we have to pay attention to that. I don't trust those Rodriguez. I want to be be very clear about that. But but I trust the Trump administration and those Rodriguez shouldn't underestimate Trump's words. Maduro was dancing on stage. He was challenging Trump. He was telling him, "Come here. I'm waiting for you." And now he's in New York. Well, where I hope he spends the rest of his life, right? Let's see what happens. >> Dorso Rodriguez is is she going to do the same? I think it would be very stupid if she does the same. >> It's a bizarre expectation for us as Americans that our president would help create a transition for a country that is not ours. Right. Venezuela is not ours. uh our own president needs to run a transition in other countries. It seems like a it seems like a strange expectation. Certainly, I understand the moral element of helping the Venezuelans, but it is America first. You live in America now. You work for an American company. Prageru is all about America. >> What do how do you think Americans should think about? >> So, first I I think we shouldn't put any Americans at risk at all. I don't think we should put boots on the ground. I don't think we should do that. Uh but if there are other things that we can do like that operation that was so precise and so effective in order to have a political transition in Venezuela that would work both for Venezuelans and Americans. I think that would be good for the West and it would be good for the US. I was telling you about Venezuela having the largest oil reserves and 80 to 90% of that oil going to China. Is that good for the US? Is it good for the US to have China 3,000 miles away from Miami? No, it is not good. So, if there is something that you could do without putting any Americans at risk, I think you should do it. And there's going to be an economic benefit from that. And that is amazing. Venezuelans are going to enjoy that. Americans are going to enjoy that, too. I'm American first. Right now, my loyalty is to America, not to Venezuela. Of course, I really, really am really interested to what it's happening right now. is very personal to me based on my background, my story, but at the same time, I want what is best for America. And I think that if there is something we could do in order to have a pro- west, pro-America ally in Venezuela that would be good economically, geopolitically, politically to the United States, I think we should do it without putting any Americans at risk. >> One of the other concerns are the drugs that are making it into the United States from Venezuela. It's not fentinyl, which I know we mostly talk about, but it's cocaine and and other drugs, right? >> Yes. It is very important. It shouldn't be underestimated. You know, cocaine enriches a cartel that at the end is also connected with those cartels who are bringing fentinel to the US. When it when it comes to cocaine that is uh coming from Venezuela, they're still killing Americans and they are making Americans add it. And there is such a a criminal organization connected to that that is very dangerous and is a duty for the US to protect its own borders. Are you aware of drugs coming in from China? Because you keep talking about the China and Venezuelan alliance. Does does China use Venezuela as a launching pad here in the Western Hemisphere to get drugs into United States? Is it possible that fentinel comes in through China into Venezuela into the United States? >> Well, we know that China works with the Mexican cartel. So, I wouldn't be surprised if China is also connected with the drug trafficking that uh comes from Venezuela. But at the same time like the criminal the cartel the criminal cartel that is in Venezuela operates with Colombia in Colombian cartels. So it's all it's all interconnected and they use Venezuela and they have used the regime to do that. And actually one of the charges that Maduro has is conspiracy to import cocaine. So there when we talk about Venezuela sometimes we forget about so many issues because there are so many elements that are in played but all of them are harming American citizens. who originally charged Maduro in 2020. >> So, it's it was a federal grand jury in southern New York in 2020. So, we're talking about an actual case, an actual trial with non-political people that it was the grand jury with no political background, no bias, who saw all the facts, all the case, and they decided to charge Maduro. >> And then what? They just did nothing with it once he was indicted. >> Yeah. initially. So, there was a reward, a $15 million reward that was first implemented by Trump during his first Trump administration. Then Biden, he didn't remove it. He increased it to 25 and it was later increased by the second Trump administration to 50. But it's been Trump in this administration, of course, in Marco Rubio that has finally captured Maduro. And this is important because some people would say this was an extrajudicial capture. Well, there is, you know, a judicial order to actually detain him for his crimes against American citizens. >> Well, and as sounds like it was a complete bipartisan decision given that you had Trump, then Biden, then Trump again. So, what's the issue? >> It used to be bipartisan, but it was bipartisan in name only or in rhetoric only. At the end, the moral compass is is broken or Dennis Pre would say it doesn't even exist. When it comes to the left, they just react to whatever Trump says or does and they immediately oppose it. It doesn't matter what it is. The funny aspect of this is that Schumer, the Democrat leader in the Senate, he said in 2020, Trump, you haven't done enough to go after Maduro. Five, six years later, after Madura has been captured, instead of saying, you know what, Trump, you did a great job. Thank you for putting America first. Thank you for going after a communist. Is he doing that? Is he saying that? No. He has criticized Trump just five, six years later after saying, "You haven't done enough." That's the left in America. >> I want to take a beat and just recognize how incredible the US military has been. Uh not just in the case of Venezuela, but what they did in Iran. I mean, we've been very much concerned that none of us want to send boots on the ground. We don't want to enlist our kids in another war. But I mean books have to be written about these operations just completely changing the scene of what uh military work looks like. It's just out of another world. >> No, it's just insane. You know, people have been asking me, do you expect this? Maybe my most optimistic, you know, uh thought was maybe they pressure Maduro so much that he leaves and he goes to Egypt or Russia. I mean, I wasn't very optimistic about that, but sure. But like the US military going into Venezuela, capturing him without no American dying as it should be. No American should die in Venezuela or any other country. >> What a unbelievable just American. >> You think there was somebody from the inside? I mean, the intelligence work that had to been done >> to accomplish that. Are any of your Venezuelan friends giving you any hints on how did this happen? Did somebody betray Maduro? So that's the rumor, right, that someone had to betray Maduro in order for this to happen. And when you had only a few just a few hours after the incident, you had Trump and Marco Rubio giving a press conference and they were saying that they're talking to Deli Rodriguez. So even though I just told you that I don't trust her and I maintain this, I do not trust her. Most likely maybe she was involved in this. Maybe she betrayed Maduro. Someone had to do it. The question is who, right? But you know, it's it's it's actually very likely. Yeah. So, you've lived here for a few years as a Latino American. You went through the last Trump election. There has been a kurfuffle, a fight over whether Latino Americans are pro the Trump administration or against the Trump administration. Many of them came out and voted for him. Uh then there were the ICE raids where the narrative we heard on CNN and many other platforms was that that's it. Republicans will never get Latinos to vote for Republicans again. Now you have Marco Rubio. I see the memes all over the internet. Have Latinoameans changed their tune about President Trump? >> So the thing about Latinos is that there are so many different groups, right? You talk about we can talk about Mexicans or more like Central Americans, more like West Coast Latinos. You can also talk about East Coast Latino, Venezuelans, Cubans. >> Yeah. >> When we talk about Florida, for instance, I don't think a Democrat or a progressive candidate would ever win there in a generation at [laughter] least. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm being 100% honest. Not just because Trump did this, which is already like the biggest achievement ever for for our community in that sense in in in foreign policy, but when we see the reaction from Democrats, is so disappointing to see. Why would you be angry at this? Why would you be mad at this? They're quoting international law. How did international law help Venezuelans that were suffering? How did international law help Ukrainians when Russia invaded Ukraine? you know, and they make so many false equivalents like, oh, now China is going to invade Taiwan. Do you really think that what is stopping China is just a paper international law? What is stopping China is President Trump having President Trump um in the White House. And at the same time, I want to clarify Maduro wasn't a president. He was an arot terrorist. Venezuela is not really like there is no sovereignty in Venezuela. China is there as as as I said >> and sovereignty in that case even if we consider that shouldn't be an excuse to commit crimes to another country that's like saying that property rights is enough for me to commit crimes inside my house against someone no I think we should do something about it especially if it's in the US if it's in the US interest so yes right now like Florida I think it's going to be it's going to be even more red more more red than ever but you know uh Hispanics are very different depend it depends on where they come from, how old they are, where where they are. But of course, this is a huge win for Hispanics. >> Yeah. You mentioned international law. I don't think anybody takes international law seriously anymore. There's no way to even, you know, penalize any country that goes against it. Clearly, we've seen that all over the world. And uh I don't know if it's even a piece of paper. If it is a pe some of paper, it's not what what it's worth. >> It is not working. Even the United Nations, you know, they're mad about this. which incidentally the United Nations was cheering for the opposition leader when she received the Nobel Peace Prize. So on the one hand they were cheering for her and giving her the Nobel Peace Prize but because Trump got involved now then now they are no longer cheering for her. >> Yes. And what is funny about the United Nation is that now they're complaining about about this. Well, it's the same um United Nations that would have Venezuela or Cuba in the human rights council >> is the same. It's the same that has a permanent members like China, Russia. So at the end we need to have a conversation about this. Of course we need to talk about this. We need to debate about this. But at the end in international law is not preventing evil countries, evil empires from committing crimes. It's not protecting Christians in Nigeria. Is not protecting Venezuelans in Venezuela. Is not protecting or hasn't protected Cubans in Cuba for six decades. So the facts are actually very clear and and and and we need to have a conversation about this now because I have seen some political commentators talking about you know what if China uh now invades uh uh Taiwan that would be the same like like the US invading um uh Venezuela there is a huge difference the things that the left doesn't want to define good and evil but morality is objective we know that Denise Prager knows this very well we need to make a distinction in China you not criticize your government. That's an evil empire. In the US, you can do that. In Taiwan, you have a free country. In Venezuela, you don't have a free country. If you post on social media, you go to jail. So, of course, there is a huge difference. The US didn't kidnap a president, as some people are saying. They captured a terrorist. They captured an indicted drug trafficker. And the difference, the contrast couldn't be clearer. And it's important to highlight. Well, how many Venezuelans want Donald Trump and the Trump administration to step into Venezuela? And how many Taiwanese want China and Xiinping to step into Taiwan? How about you just answer that simple question if we're talking about morality and what people want? You know, we we spend a lot of time about morality and ethics and the suffering of people. But let's just talk about pragmatic America first claims. So the petro dollar is a significant element here and I think not enough people are speaking about the significance of how oil is traded around the world as of now is traded through dollars. What happens if countries like Venezuela continue to get captured by China and Russia and we move away from the petro dollar essentially paying for oil via dollars to paying and and and and bartering >> for oil with either the yen or any of the the other currencies. What that would do to the American economy? If there's anybody who can understand inflation, it's a Venezuelan who's lived under inflation. So let's let's capture that very significant element of of this geopolitical conflict. >> So as a powerful country and having a powerful currency, you want other countries to use your currency, especially when they're making transactions uh on so many important things like energy, oil, petroleum, you want that. Why? Because that means more demand for your currency, more demand for dollars, and that makes the currency stronger. when you have Venezuelan Venezuela making uh or doing businesses with China and they're not they're not using the dollar actually that makes uh the dollar weaker. Those are so uh important powerful transactions that when they are made with other currencies that in some way actually makes our currency the US dollar weaker. So there is even an economic argument to make not just a geopolitical not just not even in petroleum or energy in itself but even as a currency issue. If if the dollar is weaker, prices go up. Inflation by definition is is the expansion of money supply. So what it means is that things get more expensive because your money has less value. Now if Venezuela again, one more time, the country with the largest oil reserves is exchanging uh in oil transactions with dollars that is great that is good for the United States. Mhm. So even as of now the exchange between >> China and Venezuela even sometimes it's in the ca they they used barter but when they wouldn't use barter they would use the dollars but they were moving away from dollars in order to weaken the United States. This is an economic war. If you look at the entire picture globally, whether it's tariffs or our fight for a strong dollar, it is it this is an economic war in many cases in lie of boots on the ground in in in lie of bombs and fire. Uh and I think people need to recognize that that you don't get to eat the cake and have it too. You want to have a strong economy. At the end of the day, if you ask any American, what do you care about the most? It's security and economy, right? Your bread basket. Can you feed your family? Can you feed yourself? And so if we allow our adversaries, China, Russia, Iran, to weaken our dollar, we cannot be surprised if we wake up weaker. >> Yes. And the best thing is that it would actually be a win-win because some people would ask right now, what about Venezuela? So what about Venezuela? You know, leftists would ask that question pretending they actually care. They don't care because they have never cared. if they actually occur, they would be complaining about China being there, right? It would be a win-win. >> So, it's not just Americans who care about their dollars and making money, but you're saying it's a win-win because now Venezuelans will have more money. And so, the entire financial pie increases, not a zero sum game. And even in the long term, I mean immediately it would be an effect, but even in the long term, uh Venezuela is only producing like 1 million or even less than that uh oil or barrels >> every day when they could easily produce three, four or five million. Like it has the largest oil reserves. >> That means that if we want to produce more, Venezuela wants to produce more, which would be good for a global economy, Americans or corporations need to invest there. They need to put money on assets, infrastructure. They of course need to take a risk which that's how how you know u a relationship works. So are the US going to gain something from that? Of course and they should but Venezuelans are also going to gain from that. And actually I would say they are the ones who are going to benefit the most. Americans are going to benefit but Venezuelans are going to see their lives changed the most. And it's actually good. So those leftists who try to care about Venezuelan oil, where have you been the last 25 years? >> Yeah. Well, and it sounds like America first to me. You know, I probably spend too much time on X, but maybe not as much time as you do. So, I I pick up on all kinds of nonsense from silly podcasters. And people have asked me a question about this term global homo that is now going I mean, I can't even say it with a straight face, but we've had a serious conversation about morality and geopolitics and money. And so now we can get into the silliness of some of the podcasters out there. What is that? >> That's the narrative that some people have that the reason why the US now is involved in Venezuela and they want to have a political transition is to implement, I don't know, to promote homosexuality in Venezuela. >> Now, I wouldn't even bring this up if it wasn't some people who I've taken seriously over the years bring it up. But >> you have important uh podcasters like Tucker Carson or Candice Owens. That doesn't make any sense there. And Tucker said something along the lines that Madur is actually a conservative leader. Let me tell you something. He had put priests, religious leaders in prison for criticizing the regime. Is that conservative? Is that what Western values uh look like to you? >> Christians putting Christians in jail. >> Maduro has put Christians in jail for criticizing his regime. Catholics, Protestants in jail for criticizing the regime. Actually, he has even gone after uh Mormon churches. He has nationalized Mormon churches. That's what Madura has done in Venezuela. So that's is that what you know conservatism looks like to you? No. Madur is not a conservative. He's not the most woke person. I have to be honest about that to he's not necessarily woke, but he's not pro-western values or ideas. He doesn't he doesn't respect Christians. He's not a Christian. So stop with the global homo conspiracy. Doesn't make any sense. >> Homosexuals. Yeah, it's like promoting homosexuality in Venezuela by having a regime change or something, which doesn't make any sense. Your face is is exactly what it is. It doesn't make any sense. It's weird. It's it's it's shouldn't be taken seriously. The thing is that these people have, you know, large audiences that that's why we need to talk about this, but it doesn't make any sense. It's not a serious analysis. >> Honestly, it's just bizarre. Uh it it doesn't happen very often where I have nothing to say, but I'm I'm just dumbfounded by how bizarre the whole thing is. >> Basically, that means that, you know, we sent Americans, the best people, you know, in the world, the most trained to captured Maduro just because you want more gay people in Venezuela. That's what ultimately that would be, which doesn't make any sense. >> I don't understand how anybody can take any of this stuff seriously. What a waste of time. Um, >> final question. What do you think realistically Venezuela looks like in the next year? >> I think it's going to be a tough year. The regime is going to still be in power for this year. However, they're going to make some uh they're they're going to giving up stuff. They're going to try to follow what Trump is telling them to do. And in the long term, not this year, but I think the next year we're gonna have an actual political transition that is going to lead to free elections that is going to lead to a big change to the to Venezuelans and to the American people as well. But this year we're going to see some businesses uh get done between American companies and Venezuelan oil and that is good for both parties and you know the Venezuelan regime has to compromise or they want to spend the rest of their lives in New York >> in a prison because everyone would like to spend well maybe not now with Mandan in power right but they would like to be in America yeah exactly exactly so I'm optimistic I have never seen the regime this weak I don't trust the regime they're still in power but they have never been this weak. If there is a moment to be optimistic is now this is going to be a tough year. It's going to be a difficult year. Some people might wonder this year in a few months. Well, nothing has really changed. It's a more it's it's in the long term that I think we're going to see something. Just the fact even if even if I hope the regime of course is removed entirely, even if it's not removed entirely, just the fact of seeing Maduro being detained, you have no idea how happy I am. And by the way, the first picture, the most viral picture of him with a bottle of water and the Nike outfit, a communist with a Nike outfit, right? But with a bottle of water, he's drinking water. Political prisoners in Venezuela do not drink water. They do not eat. So, ironically, because he's in a free country, Madur is in a free country with a country with a rule of law. He's been treated way better than any other political prisoner in Venezuela. And actually, as I see all Venezuelans as prisoners, >> he's been treated better than most of Venezuelans >> because he eats three times per day. He has healthcare. He has medicines. Venezuelans don't have that. So, ironically, just because he's in the best country in the world where there is rule of law and he's a constitutional republic, even when he's not having a good time, and that makes me so happy, he's still being treated better than most of Venezuelans. >> Interesting point. As we walked in here, you mentioned to me that some people have been messaging you that their political prisoner friends are being released from Venezuelan prisons. Is that right? >> Yes, that's right. And I'm grateful to Donald Trump and Marco Rubio because this is not about the regime being nice. This is about Trump doing this. So it has a huge impact. Some people are just saying, "Well, Maduro is in New York and what? How does that change my life?" >> Who is releasing these political prisoners now? Do you know? >> Yes. Is the regime is doing it because they have to because Trump told them to do it because Marco Rubio, the secretary of state, told them to do it. They have to do it. or are they going to pay the same price that Madur is paying? >> Wow. Yeah. Amazing. >> So that's real change. You know, people who were in prison being tortured for years and right now they're going to have their family members again. >> They must be crying from happiness just going home. That's amazing. >> Yes. He's a peacemaker. >> Well, we're going to keep watching you. I'm sure you're going to be posting on social media all kinds of updates and uh >> you know, I'm happy for you. I'm happy for really happy too for Venezuela and for the United States. This is really good for the United States and the fact that it was the United States who did it, it makes it even better. We're the best country on God's green earth. That's what we are. There's no doubt about it. >> Yes. >> How can people find you if they want to keep up to date? >> Yes, they can find me on social media, Instagram, Tik Tok, X. If they just type Franklin Kamargo, my name, they're going to find me. So, yeah. >> And of course on Prageru, you have your shows. >> Of course on Prageru, I create content weekly on a weekly basis. Yes. Prep and pre you in English as well. Of course. >> That's right. Well, Franklin, thank you for everything and uh keep up the great [music] work. >> Thank you. Appreciate it.