Extended interview General Motors CEO Mary Barra

Thank you very much for doing this. Well, I'm really excited to host you here in our new Global World Headquarters in Detroit. Yeah, when did this open? Tell me about the building. Well, we moved in yesterday. So you literally are one of our very first guests. And this is our home. Detroit is our home. It always has been. But we're now back to Woodward. And the Hudson's building has, and this is the site of the original Hudson's building, has great memories for me because as a child, I remember coming down here to see the Christmas windows. And so we're really excited to be in Hudson. And, you know, I think it's gonna be good for the city with the proposal we have working with Dan Gilbert and Bedrock for the Rensen to continue to strengthen not only the city, but the state. I saw a vintage cassette kind of display artwork on the wall over there. Yes. But you're a Taylor Swift fan. Are you going to sneak her into the display somehow? Well, you know, to get on the wall, you have to have an album that you have a vehicle mentioned in one of your songs. So I will look forward to that. Good suggestion. Let's talk about electric vehicles in the news a lot lately. It seems like the industry, like many industries, took a big swing and it didn't work out. What happened? Well, I wouldn't say it didn't work out. We never thought the transition, remember, the way the vehicles propelled, this is a huge transition since, you know, almost 100 years ago. So I think we're on a journey to get to electric vehicles. We're still committed. But I also think, you know, when we looked at the regulatory requirements, we were getting a little ahead of the consumer. And this is a vehicle is such a big purchase for a consumer. And for many of them, it's the most expensive thing that they buy, that we have to stay aligned with the consumer. So I think we're on a good path. I think as there's more charging infrastructure, as we continue to get the cost of batteries down, I think consumers will pick an electric vehicle because they're better. But in the meantime, we have a phenomenal internal combustion engine portfolio of vehicles. We lead in full-size trucks, full-size SUVs. In fact, we've led in full-size SUVs for over 50 years. It's a bit of a chicken and an egg question, but I want to linger on it for a second. Do you think electric vehicles failed to take off, like the industry hoped, because of the lack of infrastructure, charging stations and the like, or because of a design issue? The world-beating electric vehicle just hadn't come online yet. No, I think it's more of, again, it's a very important purchase. The consumer's rational. Most people only have one vehicle, so they need to depend on it for everything, every day, everywhere. And we don't have the charging infrastructure as robust as we need to have for people to count on it like they count on having a gas station around the corner. But I think that's happening. There's more and more charging stations being put in. Charging is getting better. So it'll happen over time. It's going to happen on, I think, a little bit longer trajectory. But in the meantime, like I said, I'm very proud of our internal combustion engine portfolio, because we have great vehicles for consumers to choose from. We grew share by almost 6% last year, and we sell more vehicles in this country than anyone else. So I'm really proud of the choice we offer consumers. You mentioned the cost of a vehicle being, for some families, for many families, the most expensive thing that they buy. I was reading recently that the average price of a vehicle in America now is north of $50,000 for the first time. Is there an affordability crisis here in the industry? Well, again, we have a full portfolio of vehicles, and I'm really proud of the fact that we have several vehicles. In fact, last year, we sold over 700,000 vehicles that had a starting price of under $30,000. And these are vehicles that have great technology, great safety features, connectivity. So when you think about the Chevy Trax or Trailblazer or the Buick and Vista or Enclave, we've got great choices that are affordable. We have luxury. We have premium. We have trucks. We have a full portfolio for people to choose from. So on the electric vehicle front and on the affordability front, China seems to be able to pump out electric vehicles at unbelievable price points, $12,000, $15,000. And your counterpart at Ford looked at one of these vehicles, got a sample and said, it's a really good vehicle. Why can't we do the same thing? Well, I think at General Motors, we are. We have affordable vehicles. In fact, the Bolt we just started selling in the last few weeks will have a starting price at $25,000 again, and that's meeting U.S. regulations, our safety standards and requirements. So I think that's fairly significant. I think we're going to continue to compete, and I take all competition in the industry seriously, by continuing what makes American car companies great, and that's innovation. We also have to recognize the fact that right now, much of the auto industry in China is heavily subsidized. And so all factors in, I think we can compete and have a better vehicle, and I think we're doing that. And that subsidy makes it really difficult, though, doesn't it? Well, again, but I think when you look at what the administration did, looking at tariffs and trying to get a level playing field, because previously, people could sell vehicles in this country, and the reverse was not true of what the tariffs were. I think there's been a lot of progress made on leveling the playing field. I think that's something that the current administration and all administrations are looking at, because the auto industry does provide a lot of good-paying jobs, and we intend to continue to do that. So on that subject of jobs here and manufacturing here, I talk to everyday Americans who wonder why it's not possible to just turn on these empty factories again and make it all here. Why is that so difficult? Well, we make a tremendous number of vehicles in this country already. We're actually equipping and working by later this year, early next, we'll have two additional factories, one that we're adding products to and another that we are starting up again. And so we're doing just that, and we'll have a significant portion of the vehicles we sell in this country built here, and also leveraging the footprint that we have to drive on affordability. I know it's not simple, and I know that the supply chain involves parts that we don't make here, we have to import, and that always raises the questions for people. What does it mean to be American-made? The parts come from overseas, but they're assembled here. What is the definition these days of an American-made car? Well, I think it starts with where the vehicle's designed, where all the engineering's done. We have just about 20 miles away, we have our Warren Tech Center. It's literally a mile-square campus where much of the engineering is done. We have, in Silicon Valley, we have a huge software organization. And so we really leverage engineers in this country, true American innovation. Also from a supply chain that you mentioned, we've been working ever since we went through COVID and the semiconductor shortage to bring a lot of the components into this country, working with the supply base. And that's something that we're going to continue to do to have supply chain resiliency. So much of what you're talking about, General Motors is doing. When you say American-made means where it's designed, where it's engineered, that reminds me of Apple, which always says made in California, or designed in California. But of course, all those Apple products are made overseas. Can you say a bit more about the actual construction, the hand part of it, the putting the thing together part of it? Well, again, we have more assembly plants in this country than anyone else. We also build engines, stampings, so well over 50% and growing. And when you take the percentage number, you always have to look at what's selling right now, because we'd actually have a lot of capacity to build more EVs that I think will come online. But we'll be already the majority and continuing to grow the actual vehicle being built here, as well as the components we make. So I'm very proud of the U.S. content that we have in our vehicles, where the vehicles roll off the assembly line. Part of making things in America is having people to make them here in America. And I was really struck by something your counterpart at Ford said not long ago to the Wall Street Journal. He said that there are 5,000 mechanic jobs over at Ford paying six figures, and he can't find people either willing to do the job or able to do the job. Are you facing a similar difficulty? Well, you know, we're working on making sure people know the great opportunities. One of the things we do from a dealer technician perspective to help our dealers is we work with the military. And as people are ending their service to our country, putting them in a training program so they can then work in our dealerships. Another thing we do is we have a very robust apprentice program for people that work in our factories. And allowing them, we've spent over $250 million over the last five years training people to be an electrician, a pipe fitter, very important roles in our plants when you look at all the technology that we have. So I think we have to continually work on making sure we have the resources, but I'm really proud of the programs we've had in place and have had for many, many years. And, you know, in addition to all of that, we employ overall more people in the industry, the auto industry, than anyone else in this country. I am aware of those programs and they're really important. We've done stories on programs like that that get young people into manufacturing, including the auto industry. But so to be clear, you don't have the same hiring difficulties Ford has? Well, I think we're continually working to make sure we close that gap. So it's not something you can say, boom, I'm done. It's something we continually work on to make sure we have enough of the skilled talent to not only build our vehicles, make sure our assembly plants and factories are running, but then work in the dealerships as well. On robotics, this is always a, it's a perennial conversation in the industry. The president in December talking about not auto, not vehicles, but ships, he made a comment about robotics being a big part of the assembly line. And I think it took people back because you've got the president thinking about robotics. You wonder how many industries are going to add to their robotics inventory. What is the mix for General Motors between actual human beings and the robots assisting? Well, one of the things we focus on and when we automate and leverage robots, which we've been doing for the last 30, 40 years, so that's nothing new, is we focus on jobs that are either repetitive and maybe have ergonomic issues. So people get hurt doing them. So we focus on safety. We focus on ergonomics. We also focus on there's certain jobs that people don't want to do. And we focus on that. And then we look at how do we make each of our team members more efficient. So there's a lot that we look at and other areas that we focus on is actually quality. Because sometimes there's a situation where the precision of the job requires that type of automation. So I don't have a specific percentage across the board, but we have a lot of opportunity to continue to improve. And we really leverage our workforce to help us understand where are those opportunities. I think this topic is so important and so interesting because I've covered robotics, I've covered AI as well. People in white collar jobs and blue collar jobs are worried about what's coming. What can you say in terms of reassurance that there are going to be jobs for people working today wondering what their kids are going to be doing in an economy they can't imagine? Well, I spend a lot of time in our assembly plants and our manufacturing plants overall. And every time I'm there, I always meet with a group of people from the plant, from all areas of the plant, and we talk about it. And one of the areas that we've seen a huge opportunity with AI is to improve quality. And so giving people the tools that they can do their job better, whether it's in one of our factories, our manufacturing facilities, or even in our engineering. How do we do things so we can move faster, get new products out the door, have more capability, more new features sooner? That's what General Motors we're focused on. It's speed and it's providing more for our customers. And as you mentioned earlier, this is a very competitive industry. Let's talk a little bit about the future. I mentioned to you earlier that my first vehicle, the first one I loved and cared about was a Chevy S10. It had a blue racing stripe on the side. Love it. But since I've owned that vehicle, young people turning 16, they're not getting their license at the same rate. It seems like the personal connection that I had way back when is different now for young people. How do you win the future and take American car culture from the past into a future? Well, I think affordability plays a big role in that. And I think there's a lot of data and we look at what's happening with people as they're turning 16 and able to drive. Whether they're buying a home a little later, starting a family later, definitely you need a vehicle when you start to have a family for car seats and packing place and strollers, etc. So we see that happening a little bit later. But you mentioned it earlier, affordability plays a key role. And we're seeing a lot of growth with people in that, you know, 16 to 24 in these vehicles that are very affordable, that start under $30,000. On the affordability question, did tariffs, how much did tariffs hurt your ability to offer low prices? And how much do tariffs eat into your profits? Well, it had a, you know, a few billion dollar impact last year. We made changes, we made changes that was unmitigated. We made changes, we called them no regret of where we chose to build things. Working with our supply base, because in many cases they were, the parts they were building were USMCA compliant, they just needed to get the certification. So there was a lot of work we did. As I mentioned earlier, we also made some shifts to our footprint. So we're going to be actually assembling more vehicles here. So we made those changes and we're going to, and we also, and I think this is really important, we worked with the administration, they took the time to understand our industry, to make sure there wasn't unintended consequences, so that we could still compete with some of the vehicles coming from other countries. So I think it was a shift that we're working through to get back. But I think 26 will be an even better year than 25. And I think the playing field is a bit more level than it was just, you know, 18 months ago. But I mean, a few billion dollars, even for GM, that's a big, that's a big number. That is a big number. And that's why we're working to offset it. And then we'll continue to to grow drive efficiency. But also we've changed our footprint because of tariffs. And I think that's a big piece of it as well. You're in the kind of industry that is often an early indicator where the overall economy is going. You hear a lot of pessimism out there, consumer sentiments are way down. Are you seeing a change in car buying habits that could be an early sign of trouble on the economy? You know, this is something we watch almost on a weekly basis, because I was asked this question a lot all through 25. And as we get into 26, we really aren't seeing it. We think the market's going to be about the same as it was last year. And again, with the vehicles that we have, the portfolio, that's really strong. We're looking to continue to grow share this year as well. You know, I miss the non-automatic windows on my Chevy S10. How come I can't get the old fashioned windows? Well, I think you might be one of the few people who wants that. And we try to make all customers happy, but also reduce the number of options so we can build vehicle sufficiency. So that one, I can't help you out with. And what was your first car? What did you love about it? It was a Chevy Chevette. And I loved it because it got me through college. And it was my very first vehicle that was red. And I love that vehicle. After I graduated from college, my brother actually bought it from me and it got him through medical school. So it's been a car that was very important to where we are today. Well, you're in a very important industry, and I really appreciate your time. Well, I really appreciate that you're visiting Detroit. Thanks for coming to our new Global World Headquarters. And we hope to host you again. Thank you.