Louise Brealey on Brian and Charles, slapping Benedict Cumberbatch and Such Brave Girls

I was ordering a Campari and soda at a 70th birthday party and a woman came up to me and said, did I just see you being fingered on the telly? At which time? Yes, she did. Can I buy you a drink? I am the voice of the parrot in Brian and Charles. Thank you. That's what I love about indie films more than anything because there very much is a sense of all in together, necessities and mother invention, everyone's helping each other. There's a proper team sprit. Sprit? Proper team sprit. Hello and welcome to the Biffa podcast hosted by me, Joy Hunter and me, Carys Aldridge. Each week we'll be talking to a brand new guest about their journey into film, their most inspiring cinema going experiences and what makes independent film so special. We have convinced the British Independent Film Awards to let us fangirl over our favourite film stars and this week was no different. This week our guest is Louise Brealey. Very special. She was one of the first people I ever interviewed when I started working at Biffa so it was so nice to have a long form interview with her. She was just pure chaos in the most fun way possible. My God, that energy burst out of the room. Fasten your seatbelts. It's a nuts episode, just so you know, but it's great. She played Molly Hooper in Sherlock. Yeah, which I think is where fans almost recognise her from. Yeah, that was her shot to fame I guess, but before that she had a really long career working as a film journalist and absolutely championing independent film for years and years she was. An editor at Wonderland magazine. She worked for Total Film as well. Yeah, she worked for Total Film and ran a specific segment for independent film. And short film too. She loves short films. She's been at all the festivals. She's seen so many like premieres of like brilliant indie films. She's just like through and through indie film. Yeah, literally cut her in half. She is indie right down the middle. She's indie down the middle. I love it. She's so Biffa coded. She's giving Biffa. It's giving Biffa. It is. Yeah, we talked about Brian and Charles, the indie film she was in. We talked about Chug Chug Baby. She's of course the absolutely unhinged, horrible, but brilliant mum in Such Brave Girls. Yeah, which is fabulous. If you haven't watched it, give it a watch. It's amazing. And she is going to play Madame Hooch in the new Harry Potter series. All the Harry Potter fans. Yes. Please do enjoy this absolutely unhinged episode of the Biffa podcast with the amazing Louise Brealey. Oh. Oh yeah. Hell yeah. That's like a bit of a karate chop type clap. Straight in. That's reminding me. I slapped Benedict Cumberbatch in Sherlock and I went like this. And everyone's like, Lou, you just hit your own hand. You're not on set. So that was a low point. And then we're still quite close with him. When it was time for his shot, he said, just hit me. And I felt totally different when I really slapped him. Yeah. And of course, that's never been caught on camera because you wouldn't let me do it in my shot. Made a fool of myself. Yeah, whatever. Hi. Hello. Louise Brealey. Welcome to the podcast. Here we all are. We made it. It was touch and go for a second, but we made it. And my God, are we glad to be here. Yes. So glad right now to be locked in this room. To be locked in our Biffa podcast. Yeah. Dungeon. Magic. Yeah. Don't distract me because I will be just getting books off the wall. You wouldn't be the first. You would not. And I'm sure you won't be the last. Famous Five Special. Hey, my dog, the dog in the new Famous Five. Yeah. Is named Gilbert after my exact dog. What? I cried because I was three Famous Five. And I was like, yeah, my mate wrote The New Virgins. So it was really exciting. Oh my God, that's brilliant. Gilbert the dog. That's fantastic. Well, we have actually spoken a lot before about how we think there should be a Biffa for animals. Oh, right. Yeah. For best performance. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. It would be the dog from Anatomy of a Fool, for example. And maybe Gilbert could compete in that category. He's not going to have a career on camera. Because Gilbert is unbiddable. I see. He'll do it if he fancies it. And he'll do it if there's a juicy bit of chicken for him. But he refuses. He just does that. He's a diva. I think me and Gilbert would get on quite well. He's a diva. I worked with a very naughty dog on a film, an indie film last year. It was called Mad Fabulous. With them, Callum Scott-Howes and Rupert Everett. Oh my God, I love them. And that dog was a dick. Absolute dick. And what was brilliant is that the dog, there was a scene in the film where the dog had to have a bath. And the owner of the dog said, no, the dog won't allow you to wash it. Can't wash it. It was literally in the script. So yeah, the dog was a dickhead. Absolute dickhead. Didn't like being picked up. Would do nothing. Gilbert could have been in that film. They're very expensive dogs. They're like a grand a day. Way more expensive than a sporting artist. Yeah, yeah. I've worked in a bit of EPK production. And we tried to get a fish tank on a set once with a fish in, obviously. And the rate that we were given blew my mind. For a fish? Yeah, for a fish. I wish I was a fish. You could have had my fish, Southbank Centre, but he's not with us anymore. Southbank Centre is the name of your fish? First name Southbank. Surname Centre. What were they called? One was called Poo Bum. Southbank Centre. God damn it. The third one, I'm sorry to that fish. It didn't last very long because I can't remember its name. But the fourth one was Kate from the Beastie Boys. It was all named by my niece, Eliza. Thank you, Eliza. Anyway, we digress. There was a fish tank in the film I watched last night. The Ballad of a Small Player. Beautiful fish tank. Great film. I would say Romeo and Juliet is another very good fish tank. Oh, come on. Oh, that's a great film. Best fish tank in film. Yeah. Oh no, hang on, that's Titanic. I know this is not what we're talking about right now. This is way better than our questions. There's a scene right at the beginning of the first season where it looks like I'm being fisted. I was actually being fingered, but I went for it too much. I was told to do it with gusto and I went con molto gusto. Molto, molto gusto. I'm like bouncing up and down. Anyway, during that scene, I thought it'd be very funny to have a Titanic reference. So if you can bear to watch again, it makes me physically sick to watch that scene. It's veterinary. One of the most disgusting things I've ever committed to video. I rewatched it last night. Did you watch it? It's so appalling. And it's right at the beginning. It's the worst thing. I thought at first, I was like, I'll have that on my show. It'd be quite funny. No one must ever see this thing. Anyway, Titanic reference. I thought it'd be funny if I slapped the kitchen cupboard in reference to that moment. I didn't realize that. That's a great little easter egg for fans. Thanks, guys. I can't say I put that scene together with the Titanic scene. It wasn't what I was thinking of while watching it, I have to say. Now they are forever bonded in my mind. Also, because we were thinking maybe he would stop doing what he's doing to me when Cat Sadler walks down the corridor. But we thought it was funny if he just slowed down. And then I said, what if then it's actually good? Yeah. So if you listen really carefully, I go, oh, that's it. It's so horrible. I wish I'd never done it. And Cat's eyebrows are like, so thorough. But yeah, anyway, a bad business. I'm sorry, everyone. Do you know what? I was ordering a Campari and soda last summer at a 70th birthday party and a woman came up to me. It was well into her 70s and said, did I just see you being fingered on the telly? At which time? Yes, you did. Can I buy you a drink? What a legacy. Is that the weirdest interaction that you've had? No. My boyfriend said, please don't have a coffee. And I didn't. Once I did an audition. Oh, my God. And I got a call afterwards from my agent. Furious. Furious with me saying, Louise, I just had a call from the casting director. And I just really do not know what to say, because she has told me that you were clearly on drugs. And I went. No, I wasn't. Ruth, I had a mocker. I was very giddy. And I had a mild cold, so I was just doing that with it. OK, any questions? Well, we've discussed your legacy on screen already. I think that's it, isn't it? Yeah, I think that's all we need. Before you got into acting, you worked as a film journalist for years and years. And you've always championed. It was actually, there was a big old overlap. Yes. Yeah, well, this is what we were trying to figure out. I overlapped for ages. And then it just got to like, oh, no, I want to interview that person. But I also quite like to work with them. Yeah, so it was just too awkward. So I had to stop. So yeah, no, so it needed to stop eventually. But no, you're talking about championing indie film. Yeah. It's true. I am a bona fide champion of independent film. You really are. And that's why you're here. Thank you. It's time that people realise. At last I'm getting the recognition I so badly craved my whole life. No, yeah, when I was little and I was journalising, I was working for Total Film Freelance. And basically, it was quite blockbuster-y, Total Film at the time. Total Film, we just lost, was it last year? Yeah, last year. Which is really so sad. I pitched to the board of Total Film. I'm sure I had a briefcase. I pitched to them, not my dad's briefcase. I pitched them the idea of a little mini magazine at the back of the magazine that was purely about indie films. So it was just an excuse really for me to interview people I thought were brilliant, go on loads of courses, get free books, and essentially, you know, champion short films and all sorts of other stuff. So I made it just a small magazine called The Real Stuff. I had a great time, basically doing what I wanted. And interviewing really cool people like Svea Coppola and Darren Aronofsky, who asked me where he was going to be placed in the magazine. And I said, oh, you're on the front cover of the indie section. And he said, I'm not indie, I'm mainstream, baby. So that was that. He stayed in the back where he belonged. Good on you. And it was just brilliant because I was able to, you know, I don't know, write about shorts. No one writes about shorts. No one's got any money to write about anything. Yeah, this is true. Although it was quite cool because one of the films I featured then went on, short films, went on to win a BAFTA for short film. And it was called Shadow Scan. Starring an extremely hot Paul Basley, who plays, I'd like to say, my boyfriend in Such Brave Girls. Yes. And yeah, he's bloody in it. And I'd completely forgotten he reminded me. And I was like, oh my God, he's got beautiful curly hair. Lovely. Anyway, we didn't realise that Dev was creepy in Such Brave Girls. We were appalled when the reviews came out and they kept describing him as creepy. We were like, it's creepy about Dev. With your head at a certain angle, he could appear as mildly creepy. I don't know. I think he's so not the worst offender in that show. It's not me. I say that with all love. I love how awful you all are in that show. I find it worryingly relatable. Glorious. Around that time, you were also covering a lot of festivals. Well, yes, indeed. When I was a very baby journalist, indeed, somehow I managed to get followed around Cannes by a Channel 4 film crew. They followed an actor. Now, that wasn't me. I was a journalist. They followed a writer, a director, an actor and a journalist. And I thought it would be a marvellous idea for them to see what it was like to be a journalist in Cannes by filming me going into a screening, which is mostly apart from drinking rosé, eating fish soup and trying to commando role under tents to get into parties. That's basically what, at that point, journalists were doing in Cannes. I was there a couple of months ago. It's exactly the same. Anyway, so I thought, film me going into a film. And they're often in the screening rooms and cinemas or inside the hotels. And this particular one, I've forgotten the name of the hotel, but you had to queue outside. So I knew the guys could just film me going in. So I was going in to see this film. And I'm very chipper as I'm going in. And I'm going, we're going to see this mockumentary. It's called The Blair Witch Project. And Cannes had been doing this amazing sort of guerrilla campaign. And it's one of the best bits of film memorabilia I've got. It was, they just had, you know, when they cut the bits at the bottom and then you can tear a bit off. It's like, it's basically a missing poster for the kids in the film. Anyway, so the camera has me going into the screening. And then it's a hard cut to me halfway across the road coming out. And the first person out of the cinema, I'm going, ******* hell, ******* hell, coming over the road. And they're like, what? With their camera. Because there was no expectation at all. And obviously, after that, Blair Witch became its own phenomenon. And people had an expectation. They were going to be terrified by this thing. And I can assure you that in that moment, nobody thought it was real. It was so frightening. I was sat right at the front in the balcony, which is amazing. I was the first person out of the cinema. But there's a point, sorry, this is a spoiler. There's a point near the end where there's a guy in a corner. And at that point, I let out what can only be described as the sound of some sort of beef cattle in distress. I shan't attempt to do it now, but it was a very low, big sound. Nobody even laughed because everyone was shitting themselves. It was documentary gold. And so I was interviewing Ed and Watsy Chops, the directors of Blair Witch Project. And they had heard about this. They're like, we want it for the... The trailer. Well, the trailer, yeah. But if you like the extras. I would have liked the trailer. That would have been great. And Channel 4 wouldn't let them have it. Really? It could have been viral before viral. Yeah. Justice for you. I know. Should have been in the Blair Witch Project DVD extras. I know. I'm sorry. You know what I'm saying? It's a great tragedy. That's hilarious that it got back to the directors. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were like... Of course. Because it's everything they wanted. You couldn't make that up. Yeah. You were putty in their hands. And this idiot just going... Anyway. We will guide people. We'll have to put a link in the show notes. I'm sure we can put it in. Iconic. Yeah, everyone thought it was hilarious that I was such an idiot. Coming out of the film. But you weren't. It was so... I've watched the clip. It's so good. It's like, yeah, this is a moment. Because it was a game changer. I think Adam Buxton in the interview was talking about how so many genre films around that time were very... There were so many references. And it was all very Tarantino-y. Whereas this was so, obviously, so stripped back. Oh, it was so brilliant. To see it like that. And I have to say that now, one of the things I miss about journalism is the festival experience. Yes, the alcohol. But also, seeing a film without any sense of what it's going to be. And I'm an absolute nightmare. If people are talking about films, I'm like... Do not mention. I don't want to know anything. I don't even really want to know what genre it is. But I'm so hardline. It's just pathetic. Because I just want... I'm sort of craving that experience of... Is it even going to be... What is it? Who's in it? What's funny? I love it. It's such a magical thing to see a film totally cold. Yeah, and in the cinema. Seeing it all for the first time. Amazing. No, I totally agree. I had that... I think I was chatting to you guys about that with Sinners. It's the first time this year. I had no idea. All I heard is people being like, Oh, Sinners is pretty good. You should watch it. I didn't see the trailer. I didn't see a single thing. I saw Killing of a Sacred Deer like that. Me too. It's perfect. Because tonally, it's so screwed up. And you're like... Just the score. The discord violins the entire time. Oh my God. It's so... I'm an anxious girl anyway. No, it's fine. Oh my God. It's so anxiety inducing. It's like two hours of anxiety. No, it's dreadful. Get to it. But I loved it at the same time. Yeah. I would say that would be my can moment. It's great, isn't it? I was like sprinting to the premiere. My friend got me a ticket. I was like shoving people out the way. And then went to see this film. I had absolutely no idea. I don't think I'd seen any Yorgos before that. And then had seen that and was like, what the ****? Obviously, film journalism is kind of like quite a changing beast. And everything's all about social media skewed press tours now. And I would love to ask... I would hate it. Yeah. How do you think it's changed over the years? I think it's changed utterly. I mean, I sometimes feel a bit like, God, why did I do that? Yeah, because we all have times when we're just not working and it's like that. And journalism was a laugh. But I talked to my friends who are still doing it and they're like, I don't know. You just don't have the access. I'd be like literally having lunch for a feature with Jude Law in Soho. With no PR, it's nothing. Just us dicking about. And I'm going, I think we've got it, haven't we? Yeah, OK, we've got it. And when I interviewed Liv Tyler for the cover of Wonderland, I went to New York to do it and we were in this really loud diner around the corner from her house. And I was starting to think, oh, because it was so loud. Everyone braying and around. And I was like that with my tape recorder, like a bit loud actually, practically in her mouth. And it was hopeless. I was just like, ******* hell, this is the cover, this is fucked. It's all ruined. And she just looked at me and she looked into my soul and smiled and went, should we go to my house? And I was like, yeah, OK, cool. You're like, I guess. I think that could be a good thing. Actually, it is quite loud in here. And then we went and so we had the best time ever. She was at one point sat on the loo singing, duetting with me doing Graham Parsons covers. And you had the scope. So because we were, I was basically deputy editing that magazine. We were like, should we just run this over loads of pages? You can't do that. So we run it as a, I loved the Paris review of it was perfect journalism. So they do this prose sort of set up and then it's Q&A. Q&A, I think is the purest form of interview. I love it. I think it's brilliant. Anyway, so I ran it like that, but then interrupted it with things like recipe for her broken heart or for the key lime pie or like her 10 favorite something or others. And what her kitchen looks like, which she didn't like. So anyway, that just doesn't happen. So I think I got out while the going was good. But I did have a, I did have an interview horror story. Oh my Lord. Yeah. So this is Cam. And, you know, apparently round tables don't quite exist in the same way. Some said that distributors have to pay for a place, which is wild. That's crazy. Anyway, he's just sit around with a load of journalists and a sea of recording devices, tape cassettes, actually, it was that long ago in the middle. And I was late, which is obviously really uncharacteristic for me. Anyway, there was only one seat next to Jared Leto. And after about 30 seconds, I was like, Oh my God. ------- hell. It smells of dog ----. Someone stood in. Oh, it's disgusting. It's horrible. It's my ******* shoe. And I was the last person there. And I'm sitting next to Jared Leto. And everyone's looking at me. Going, you stink of ----. You literally have come and sat next to this beautiful man. And you smell of ----. And he was trying to move his chair. And I was like, this is the worst time of my life. Oh my God. My head is making the back of my head like literally hurt. Thinking about the shame. Wait, you only get like 15 minutes. I was just sat there like that. 15 minutes going. One five. It absolutely stank. It was rank. And it was me. And as far as they were concerned, I was just sitting. Were you like trying to get it off your shoe or just like spreading it? I'm just trying to sort of like put my leg as far. But I've got quite little legs. And I was just like trying to move my foot. It was so bad. Do you want to drop an apology vid to Jared in case we can? I'm sure he's done worse things to people. This is like karma coming back around. I'd like to apologize formally to the other journalists at the table. Yeah, so that was that. Great times. Yes. You were in the wonderful indie film Brian and Charles, which was a bit of a sort of sleeper hit. Like everyone I know who's seen it absolutely loved it. Such a good example of like a deeply British indie. I think Brian and Charles has one of the purest hearts of any, certainly any film I've been involved with and most films that I've seen. And it's really interesting because the short is much darker that it was sort of based on the characters are in that. I don't know if you've seen it. It's dark. It's really quite sort of it's a dark world. And that's what I thought we were making. I think I thought we were making, you know, a sort of with Nell and I thing and we'd end up making Paddington 2. It's just got this gorgeous heart and they actually cut a load of stuff with me and my mum in the film, which was considered too sort of upsetting because she was bullying me. She was a bit of a bully in that film. I mean, it was way worse in the original and they just were like, do you know what? We're not going to do it. And I think there was some vomit they cut out as well because, you know, the kids wouldn't have liked it. But anyway, it was just so wonderful. I was supposed to be doing this telly. It wasn't a very interesting part. I think I was wearing a ruff and there was going to be a lot of sitting around, but it was loads of money and I ended up having to sort of choose between the projects. And my agent, to be fair, was amazing, even though she was like that. She said, you just got to do what you want to do. So I chose to do Brian and Charles and I remember distinctly arriving in Wales. I'd driven up to Snowdonia and it was still full COVID time. I'd driven up and my face hurt because I'd been smiling all the way. I was so happy to do it and it really continued through the job. You know, it was just amazing. David Earl, I think, should have won a BAFTA. I've seldom worked with anyone as brilliant as him. It's like working with someone in the Moscow arts theatre. He's been living that part for years and he's just perfect. He's just beautiful. I'm obsessed with him. So am I, honestly. He's amazing. There's a bit when he comes around to your house and you're there with the parrot and then he's like looking at something in the cupboard, like completely nothing to do with anything and he just goes, oh, there's an onion in here. I was like, I spat out my tea. It was so funny. I loved all the parrot stuff. I fell in love with the parrot as well. I was in a very loving place at that point. The parrot was so cute. He was called Rocky, IRL. And I didn't think really much of parrots before. I'm not going to lie. I didn't get it. That's a scoop, fair enough. Yeah, I've heard it here first. That's a clickbait headline. Daily Mail will go crazy with that one. That guy, I loved him. Yeah? We bonded. I don't mind saying we spent a lot of time together. And not only that, I mean, this is a scoop, guys. Prepare yourselves. Oh my god. I am the voice of the parrot in Brian and Charles. It would refuse to say whatever, which it was required to do by contract. And it wouldn't. And so I said, guys, I've got this. Step in. Yeah, heroic. I know what's going to happen. You're going to try and make me do it, aren't you? I would love to hear. Of course. So the difficulty for me is I've got two things I can do. One is whatever in a parrot voice, and another is sort of a cross between, I'd say either a dolphin, a crocodile, or a creaky door. Okay. And the difficulty is I've never really been able to do it on cue. Once I did do it in a rehearsed reading, and it got what they call in the theatre a round. A spontaneous round of applause, which I've never achieved in my career. But I did a creaky door, brought the house down. Anyway, here's the parrot. Now, I know you're thinking. I know you're thinking I've got a tape recorder in my pocket, and that's why I cover my mouth, but that's not true. I'm just not sure what my face is doing. I feel scared. And the other one, since we're here. We are here. Oh, no, please. This could take some time. Okay, straight in. Sorry, Louise maintained eye contact with me the entire time. Like a shitting dog. Like a shitting dog licking you straight in the eye. Just as disconcerting. This is the best day of my life. For the rest of my life. I'm so sorry. That kind of transported me to a different dimension. That was kind of an out of body experience. I was there. Thank you. How do you realize that you have such talents? Well. Like, do you just stumble upon it one day? You know, some people learn the guitar as a child. So if any filmmakers are watching this and, you know, just thinking that you could use that in your movie, I am very happy to provide it in person, in front of the camera. We can make you a show reel. Yeah, it's incredibly versatile. Let's do that. Thanks, guys. Oh, yeah, Brian and Charles. Great. Brian and Charles. Fantastic. And I went to Sundance. Yeah, which we couldn't go to because it was COVID. Oh, you were joking. Could you believe it? Have you been to Sundance? I have been. Okay, okay. That wasn't your one opportunity. It wasn't my one chance. But that was a wrinkle. But anyway. Oh, that's such a shame. That is showbiz. In terms of independent film festivals, would you say Sundance is up there as one of your favorites? I'd say I used to go to Edinburgh. And what can I say? In Edinburgh, you could just mix. Like, there used to be this room where the talent, you could mix with the talent. Which is obviously very enticing. It's such a load of old rubbish. Really winds me up, all that. That's one thing I really loathe about TV and film sets, actually, is the hierarchy. Which, you know, you've got to make things happen to an extent. But there's a lot of old rubbish about, you know, treating runners and essays, sporting artists, formerly known as extras, badly. Not giving them warm things. You know, I don't want to say I'm a hero or anything, but I will give them my coat, because then they'll give me another one. And it's just like, it's a lot. I just think it's ribbish. It's absolutely rubbish. It's a load of rubbish. Stop it. No, no, no. We're all the same. It's nonsense. I think some actors, if you get famous really young, you think, oh my god, look at this. Aren't they absolute... Dogs, barns. Yeah, thank you. But in fact, you're just tiny emperors. Like, out of The Last Emperor, you've got no power. Somebody else has got the power. Just a child. And they need to know where you are. That's the thing. That's why they're fetching you a cup of tea, love. Not because you're special. I'm a team. It's a team. It is, it is. And I know I sound like, what a great guy. But it's true. That's what I love about indie films more than anything, because there very much is a sense of all in together. Necessity is the mother of invention. You can't dick about. Everyone's helping each other. There's a proper team sprit. Sprit? Proper team sprit. If there was something about the industry that you would change, what would it be? Oh, two selfish things. One, I think that filmmakers and writers, producers, would all become very, very interested in middle-aged women. Yes. Very, very, very interesting. In fact, much more interested in them than anything else. And secondly, I would really like a return to auditioning in person. Because you felt like you came into Soho, you went for a coffee. A mocha. You went for a decaffeinated coffee. Yep. And you could, you know, you could read your script. Then you meet a director and you have a nice chat and they tell you how to do it. And then you've made a connection, even if you don't get it. And you've read the whole script. Now you usually get just the scene. You're not allowed to read the script. You don't get a steer. You don't get told any feedback or whether you got it sometimes. That's so difficult and can be really demotivating. It is a bit. Because also, what they don't tell you is that you're actually auditioning for an audition. So you're sort of among 100 people or whatever, who are just basically pissing in the wind and hoping they don't piss on their own foot. It's just boring. It's so removed from the reality of being on a film set where you are a big team and playing off each other. 100 percent. And also, of course, it's best guess wins. Best guess wins. If you've got it right, you might get through to the next level of the computer game. But if you haven't, late as potatoes. Yeah, that is really tricky. Tough titty, you might say. You may say that. And you have said that. I have. And I'm grateful that you have. Thank you. I need a Wii as well, which is a catastrophe, because we've got to disassemble the entire studio. But anyway. I think sometimes needing a Wii drives you. Have you guys heard of an app called RunP? It's one of my favorite bits of technology ever invented. It feels like it's something out of a 2000s website. The design is terrible. But it is an app for knowing when is the time to run out for a Wii in the middle of the film. I actually have heard of this. And people will update it. It's user generated. You go in. And I used it when I saw The Apprentice with Sebastian Stan and Jeremy Strong, our favorite Jeremy Strong. I saw that through a crack in the seat in front on a plane. And then met the writer at a party straight afterwards. And I said, I just saw your film through a crack in there. And he was like that. Brilliant. I mean, just how I intended it to be watched. Like people who have seen the film are like, oh, go and pee at this point. And then they say like what you missed. I need a Wii now we're talking about. Sorry. And also the reason... No, go on. Which was it? I think it was when... I think it was when Sebastian Trump gets married. I think it's like the wedding scene. And they were like... I never made that through the crack. All that happens is they get married. Maybe I went with a Wii at that moment. Fair enough. Yeah, maybe. But it's fantastic. I just love that. I never need a Wii in the cinema because I dehydrate myself. I don't drink. It's pathetic. I haven't had a drop of Agua. No, my partner does exactly the same thing. Like for one battle after another. Obviously, it's such a long film. Because I just want to have a cheeky... Do I have a cheeky glass of wine before? He's like, no, won't drink to make sure that... Because it's torturous, isn't it? Because you don't want to miss... I don't want to miss a thing. And in that particular screen, when we talk about our favourite cinema seats, I got my ideal seat. Roque, like slap bang in the middle. Amazing. But it means that if we did need to go to the toilet, we would have to make everyone stand up. So there was a lot of pressure. Yeah, you're adding a social pressure. Exactly. You've got to have some forethought there. My favourite place to sit in the cinema is not behind a tall person. My boyfriend's 6'5", so yeah. He's just like, **** you, bitches. I'm going to put my hat on. Lovely. When you said things you wanted to change about the industry, you said that everyone needs to pay more attention and give more opportunities to middle-aged women. Let's talk about Chuck, Chuck, Baby. A fine example of doing exactly that, ladies and gentlemen. Exactly. So that was directed by Janice Pugh. Exactly. It was her feature debut film. That is also correct. I think most films in some form have a sort of concentrate. If they're all Dick Whittington, they concentrate on the guy with the red hanky on the end of the stick, not the people that he left behind in whatever part of rural England, or in this case, North Wales, he came from. Whereas Janice's film stays behind in the small town where Flint, Flintshire. You stay with these women who work in a chicken factory and the one who sort of got away comes back into the fold. But the issue for me, the main point for me about Chuck, Chuck, Baby is that it is essentially pointing a camera at women who don't normally get seen. For me, that was what it was all about. My family's working class. I was sort of a scholarship kid and all that. And off I went to become middle class. But that's where I come from. And that's my mum and my sister and all the rest of it. And it was just really important to go, I want to stay with you and I want to see into your heart and see what matters to you. And I think the film really does that. Joy and I were chatting a bit before about how Hollywood has an obsession with infantilising young women or obsessed with the kind of young ingenue. But it is really important to have those depictions. And I was wondering if you have any films for you, either when you were younger or even now, where you've felt seen, similar to the women in Chuck, Chuck, Baby. The only film I've got in my head, and it's not about being seen, but it's just, she's a complete goddess. There's No Mad Land. Frances McDormand. Yeah. Oh, my God. And her speech at the Oscars as well, when she got everyone to stand up in the room, was just spectacular. She's just amazing. She is. Using a platform. Yeah. I mean, Chuck, Chuck actually is a really good case in point because the financiers wanted younger women in the film. And this story of Chuck, Chuck is broadly, this woman is, you know, in her 40s and the girl that she was at school with and who she hasn't seen since they were like, I don't know, 14, comes back to town. You need that time. If they're 21, it's like, well, it's nice to see you. It's like, I'm not being funny, but it's an idiotic creative call. And of course it was to do with getting hotter people in it. I mean, to be fair, Annabelle Scully is hot. So that was fine. And in fact, when they cast Annabelle, I was like, she's so, she's so attractive. And Janice said to me, we've got to have something for the lesbians. I beg your finest pardon. Excuse me. Thanks a lot. You've got a different appeal. Different sorts of gay women will find you attractive to me. You've got to cover all the bases. But I think really, she was just saying how beautiful Annabelle is, which she is. I did look like Ed Sheeran in that film, which is fine. You know, it was a vanity-less performance. Ed Sheeran, handsome man, but I'm a woman. It would be remiss of me not to mention such brave girls because I- Even though I brought it up 20 times already. Even though you brought it up a lot of times. It would be remiss of me not to take the tangent to such brave girls that we've skirted around a little bit. I am obsessed with that show. I think it's so hilarious. Was it as much of a laugh on set as it is to watch it? God, yeah. It's really funny to make. You only have to look at the bloopers, which I'm heavily featuring in. Which will shock you after today's interview, that I'm constantly making a tit of myself. It's a really happy set, and I think you sort of have to be because there's not many of us. It's a tiny thing, and the girls are extraordinary. Kat is just so offensively talented, and Lizzie is a force of nature. She's an amazing actress. They're all just brilliant. Paul, I'm obsessed with Paul. I love Paul. I had to snog Paul a lot in this new series. I was very happy. I don't think we got it that time. Should we do a couple more takes? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's obviously directed by the wonderful Simon Bird, who a lot of people will know from The Inbetweeners. Where he's completely brilliant is that, look, with drama, straight stuff, I know when it's truthful. There's a little sort of a triangle from a children's orchestra goes ting. Okay, yeah, that feels truthful. With comedy, I can find that harder to know if it's funny. So I don't have the ting. I don't have the triangle ting. So Simon will tell me. And so you've just got to trust. You outsource the ting. Outsource the ting. That is a perfect excise, outsource the ting. And Simon Bird is a good person to do that because he's funny boned, and he just knows. Because I can imagine things feel funny in the room, but you're like, does that translate on screen? Exactly. And then once you've done it like 20 times, it's like, what does anything want of me? You don't want it to feel stale. You're trying to keep it fresh and exciting. In that season, I gave myself an actual panic attack. I have to breathe. I have to have a panic attack around the tea table at Mother's Day tea. I induce it in myself. You went method. I went full method. I was about to try another question. Which brings us back to one of the questions that we did write that I've not kept to at all. I did study method, at least. You studied method, thank you. In New York City. Yes. Very briefly, six months. It was amazing. I would say that in terms of... I've trained in different ways. One with this absolutely crazy man called Philippe Golier, who used to teach in Clown at Jack Lecoq. People like Sacha Baron Cohen. I'd say trained with him, but I mean, I presume Sacha Baron Cohen's just been a genius. And one of my favorite comedians, Elf Lyons, went there. There you go, right? Yeah, so many people. So you would sit. We'll do Philippe very quickly. You would sit on the ground, and one of you would have to get up, and he's like, this is the game. I'm going to do my French accent. Put your hand up if Louise is ******* boring. When she's ******* boring, you put up your hand. So Louise, okay, off you go. And you're like, well, what am I doing? Don't be boring. So you stand up in front of them. I literally walked out in the center of the stage. It's horrific. Oh my gosh. It's a bad business. It's a humiliation ritual. A humiliation. The idea is that ultimately you make friends with what he calls Mr. Flop. Not what you think. No comment. Mr. Flop. And you learn to sort of laugh at yourself, which I have actually learned to do quite well. In fact, constantly. You might say I've really, really overdone that. You've mastered that craft over and over again. It's not that funny, Lou. For ****'s sake. But clown, yeah, teaching you to laugh at yourself. And also, people have a clown. For example, someone like David Mitchell is an angry clown. So when you, in real life, he's an angry clown. So when you see him on the chat shows and stuff, when he sort of gets a bit sort of cross, he's very funny. And we laugh at him. Martin Freeman's an angry clown, you know. And then there's sort of vaguely, you know, people, clowns who really think they're very clever and they're actually thicker ----. That could be me. I was about to say, I'm a bit thick, a bit idiot clown. I've got at it, yeah. But you've got to sort of find that. And in different roles, you can sort of use that. So for a long time, I was just insufferable, just essentially labelling everyone's clowns, which they were interested in for a while. I'm going to do that for everyone in my life after this. It's quite a fun exercise. I never told Philippe I'd been to Lee Strasberg because he would have destroyed me. He called RSC, the Royal Shakespeare Company, of my balls. And he was a great guy. He's still going. Brilliant. Wow. You mentioned David Mitchell. You obviously worked with him, played his little sister in Back. It goes without saying, Peep Show's absolutely phenomenal. And we were talking a bit about the Inbetweeners before and Simon Bird directing Such Brave Girls. We were talking a bit about how much we love the sort of bleakness of British comedy in shows like Inbetweeners and Peep Show. But what was so refreshing I felt in Such Brave Girls was it was like that bleak British comic sensibility, but with women at the centre of the story, which felt so new and fresh. Just sort of being unapologetically horrible. Yeah, and mad. It was brilliant. That is just such a joy to play. I mean, my God, it's such a gift. My favourite line of Debs is episode one, just before. And that is, when I whispered to Cat on the way past, if you keep staring like that, I will slit your throat in the head. It seems to basically sum it up. And it did feel like the characters sort of never learn. And it's a very sort of classic sitcom structure in that way, which I really, really enjoyed. And it seemed to sort of go against the kind of like more sort of tragic comedy trend, but still talk about and explore some of these darker themes of mental health and trauma and all of that stuff. But in a way that was like always laughing about it, but never like punching down. It's quite a difficult line to walk, but I feel like you did it so well. Because Cat's been there. Basically, she knows exactly where to play it. And that is one of the things that makes such girls brave. Do you know, since we're speaking about the name of such brave girls, I love it because every time someone speaks to me, in fact, it happened last night, someone came up and went, oh my goodness, I love such good girls. And I'm like, oh, thank you so much. Thank you. I've had some brave girls, such nice girls. I don't think you've quite got the memo there, mate. It's just like there's girls in it. And they just seem to... It's amazing this show has smudged it. Because I've also remembered, and no one thought this was going to happen, but I've also remembered what I wanted to say earlier, which was that the reviews were brilliant for the second season. But I was really... I thought it was such a shame that one of the sub-editors on one of the newspapers said, put, you know, move over Julia Davis. I'm like, sorry. I'm sorry. Why are you saying move over to like an absolute comedy goddess? The best of the best of the best. It's not move over. It's like, we wouldn't be there if it weren't for her. And also, it's not move over. We can all be there. There is room for one more woman. Like, more than one woman. And also, thirdly and finally, thirdly and finally on this point, like, you wouldn't say that if it was a bloke. Exactly. I'll get fucked. It's like there's one seat at the table. Get big fucked. Yeah, no, I completely agree. Don't be ******* slagging off another beautiful, amazing comic woman just to sort of like have a lazy stand first. No, no, no. It's a sort of similar sensibility maybe to what you were learning when you were in the clown school. Like the idea of like laughing at yourself and then taking the power out of these darker... I think Kat does that exquisitely, really genuinely and seriously. She is ******* brilliant. And it's that that the BBC saw and it's that that makes people, you know, watch it and keep watching it. Yeah, because no one really was doing that, is doing that. And it's quite hard to sort of shake a genre up. It's brill, isn't it? And sometimes that's what you like if you're having a difficult, like, you know, if I'm having a crappy day, I want to watch a sitcom. Like, I want to watch something that's like chock full of laughs. Like, that's what I love about it. And it's like brutal, but it's always, it always leaves you laughing. Like, even though it's like is addressing some of these mad things, which is just like, I've not seen anything that quite does both those things at the same time before. And it was so exciting. Oh, thank you. It's true. I mean, I'm taking the credit here. I've done absolutely nothing. Just shown up and put sort of mullet-y hair pieces on and got my cleavage out, which is great. That's the whole job, isn't it? It looks like literally someone else's breast. Unbelievable. We should also definitely talk about Harry Potter, by the way. Because, yeah, I mean, it's super exciting, obviously. And you're playing Madame Hooch. I'm playing Madame Hooch. So I had the phone call and they're on the line. It's quite crackly. And they said, Lou, you've got a part in Harry Potter. I was like, oh, wow, great, amazing. What's the part? And they're like, it's the physics teacher. And I went, oh, lovely. Well, that's absolutely, they sounded very excited. I was like, oh, this is fantastic. I put the phone down. I rang Ferdie, my boyfriend. And I said, Ferdie, I've got the part. I've got a part in Harry Potter. And he's like, ******* hell, what part? And I said, the physics teacher. And he said, Lou, there isn't a physics. It's a magic school. It's magic. There's no physics. And he went, for ****'s sake, was it the Quidditch teacher? And I said, oh, yeah, that was it. That was it. That was the Quidditch teacher. What a twat. The physics teacher. What a twat. Literally a magic school. It's a magic school. They don't do physics, chemistry, biology. They do magic. Come on, should we quickfire? This is going to be a joke. Quickfire. So moving into a quickfire round, which will be very natural for all of us. I should have prepped. I should have prepped these. These are the ones I should have prepped. What's the last film you saw? OK, that's easy. No Other Land. And also the last film I cried at. No Other Land is about the villages in Palestine that the Israelis are trying to demolish. It won the best foreign language Oscar last year in spite of not having an American distributor. And still struggling for distribution. And it is a thing of complete beauty. I urge you all to watch it. It's so beautiful. One of the filmmakers was killed, of course, by a settler. Incredible film. Beautiful. Please watch it. It's very important. Second that. Amazing filmmaking. It's so beautiful. Which film have you re-watched the most? OK, most re-watches, it's a tedious one because it's Wonderful Life. But I've now started crying earlier and earlier. I cry actually at the bit in the stars at the beginning. Louise Brealey, thank you so much for being on the Biffle Podcast. It's been a pleasure to have you. This has been a phenomenal journey. Tip your hat. Can you tip your hat for us? Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to the Biffle Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please make sure you subscribe wherever you get your podcasts to get new episodes as they land. And please tell all of your friends about the podcast to help spread the word. We want all the film fans to be able to find us. The hosts are Carys Aldridge and Joy Hunter. The show is produced by Daniel Aldrich and Kat Butterfield for Audacious Productions and Joy Hunter for Biffle. The assistant producer is Bruno Atkinson. Director of photography Jude O'Connor. Audio engineers are Nathan Cooper and James Gibbons McGregor. Filmed at Fiction Studios. Special thanks to the Biffle team.