Keto Gains: How to Build Muscle on a Low Carb Diet

Welcome! Today I'm joined by a super special guest. He's the guy that got me in trouble but has probably also changed my life for the better long-term. I'd love to welcome my friend Robert Sykes, pro bodybuilder, keto expert here on my live here on YouTube. Robert, so good to have you. How are you? I'm good. It's good to be here. I appreciate the opportunity. Yeah, so much to talk to you about. My journey started with you in 2022 after you came to speak at Keto Symposium and I was having some trouble to give people context who don't know anything about me. I'm a licensed dietitian, clinical nutritionist. I have been changed by low-carb ketogenic diet and super passionate about it as an anti-inflammatory protocol but I was doing some things wrong. Perimenopause a woman, not eating enough, definitely not strength training, at least not on a regular basis. What did you have me do, Robert? I had you do something called a reverse diet which you didn't know anything about at the time but now you've come to slash love hate at the same time. But this is something that so many women, so many people, but women especially need to do. So I was grateful that you were trusting and willing to roll up your sleeves and hit the ground running with it. So, yeah, tell people who don't know what a reverse diet, like they don't know, what is a reverse diet and why would someone do a reverse diet? Yeah, so in its simplest form, reverse dieting is simply the reverse of dieting. So people think of dieting as dropping calories, losing weights, losing body fats, getting leaner but you know what goes down must come up so to speak. So reverse dieting is basically reversing that deficit so that you're actually increasing your caloric intake, getting yourself back up to a healthy more manageable food intake and then in doing so you're also up regulating your metabolic rates, your hormone function, your caloric baseline and just improving overall markers like your strength will improve. You'll be, I mean, being in a surplus from time to time is good because that's how you're building more lean tissue and so many people just chronically under eat so they're taxing their system on all ends so they are all great candidates for a well-implemented reverse diet. That's a perfect explanation for it. I have been extremely unsuccessful at convincing anyone that a reverse diet is a good idea because women in general are terrified to gain weight. But can you explain to someone who's worried about gaining weight and I did, I mean I gained 30 pounds, not all of it was muscle, in fact very little of it was muscle but what would be the long-term benefits of increasing those calories, increasing that muscle tissue, yes gaining weight for a period of time and going through that process, what would be the long-term gain? Yeah, so let me back up a little bit. So reverse dieting is relatively common knowledge in the bodybuilding space where people have mastered the art of body composition, getting lean, building muscle, preserving muscle while getting lean and if you think about it, those principles apply to all human beings. We're all the same species but people that are not competitive bodybuilders don't think of themselves as relying on the same methods but they should because we all work more or less the same thing as being the same species. So when you look at reverse dieting, when you drop your intake down to lose weight, to lose body fats, your metabolism is incredibly adaptable. It also follows suit and down-regulates as a protective mechanism. Your hormones will also down-regulate. Everything becomes down-regulated and you can't maintain that indefinitely. So many women, so many people but women especially come to me that want to lose more weight but they've been under eating for the last 20 years of their life. Everything is relatively shot from a health standpoint and they have nowhere else to turn. I mean what are they going to do, drop down to 800 calories? So having a period of time where you strategically increase that intake so that you're able to prime your body to build more lean tissue which is going to be metabolically demanding, allowing you to eat more food, your metabolism will also up-regulate in that process. You would have a higher caloric baseline to begin with so you have more calories to manipulate the next time you transition to a fat loss phase and your overall hormonal function will improve as well. So realistically speaking, people should be spending more time at a maintenance intake or a slight surplus than they spend in a deficit because it's easier and faster to lose fat than it is to build muscle. So you need to spend more time prioritizing that side of the spectrum than the weight loss. But you know for me as a coach as well, it's a very hard sell when people come to you wanting to lose weight and you have to say okay let's actually increase your food. You'll likely increase your weight a little bit in the process but you're gonna be so much better off going forward. You have to just level with people. I mean when people have been trying to lose weight for years and they've been just beating their head against the wall, what's worked previously hasn't worked now. I mean that's pretty much the only option they have going forward. Have you seen other people gain as much weight as I gained so quickly? Yeah everybody's gonna respond to it differently. How lean you get, how down-regulated your metabolism is, how in a flux your hormones are, all kind of act as variables that dictate how much you gain going forward and so much if it's also psychological. Like when you, if you've never done a strict fat loss phase before, you go through it and you lack that perspective, it becomes the hardest thing you've ever done and the hardest thing you've done is the hardest thing you've done. So you feel deprived, depleted and you know in a deficit and coming out of that some people just from a psychological standpoint have a hard time keeping that food increase in check and they go off the deep end and eat everything in sight. Maybe even clean foods but at a unreasonable surplus. It takes some time for their hormones to stabilize, for their leptin and ghrelin hormones to actually give them accurate hunger signaling cues and if you've never done that before you're kind of shooting in the dark. Whereas the more times you go through a strategic cutting and building phase, the more perspective you gain and then you can recognize that okay and I'm being reasonable right now or I'm just eating out of desire and I feel like the more perspective you have, the more time you cycle through that, the better you can kind of keep things in check going forward. Yeah, I agree. I think the next, the next building phase will be done much better knowing what to expect and those hormones were quite messed up for sure. Having eaten too little for too many years and of course now that I've also spent time tracking, which is something a lot of people have resistance to doing, I wasn't, I also wasn't under eating you know ridiculously low amounts. I realized it was probably living you know in the seventeen, eighteen hundred area mostly and but that's, that's, that's still too little for the average woman especially an active person. Yeah, everyone's gonna be different but I mean I look at all the clients I've worked with over the years and they're not all competitive bodybuilders by any means but generally speaking I like to see my female clients able to consume north of 2,000 calories while maintaining a healthy weight in a building phase. Like I've got some female clients that are eating more than 3,000 calories but to assume that as a woman you should be consuming 1,200 calories on average is just not enough food. I mean my two year old toddler eats more than that. Yeah and you're having a baby soon, congratulations. Another baby on the way, yep we're excited. So is, is your whole family low carb? Yeah, yeah I've been keto now for 10, 11 years now. Crystal, my wife, she's been keto for a year or two shy of that and then she was keto all throughout her first pregnancy with Rigel and he was born totally ketogenic and has only consumed ketogenic foods from day one. I mean his first meal was this massive beef knuckle bone that we had done in the slow cooker and he was just gnawing on it with his two teeth he had at the time. So yeah, totally ketogenic for sure. Wow, that is amazing. So what do you say to the people who think you can't perform in the gym? I mean anyone who looks at your socials knows how much you can pick up. It's crazy how much weight you can deadlift and stuff. So what do you say to the people who say we, we just absolutely need, need those carbs to perform? It's, it's frustrating because I feel like so much of the athletic community is just steeped in the dogma that they've, you know, been ingrained listening to for the majority of their life. And in the performance realm, the, in the bodybuilding realm specifically, flexible dieting, if it fits your macros, eating a mixed diet, that's just always been the underlying foundational premise to people's food choices. And it's unfortunate because that's just what they've grown up hearing, that they get their carbohydrates from energy and that just is what it is. Hormones are, you know, dictated by fat. Energy comes from carbs and protein to build and repair muscle. That's just what they think, very surface-level stuff. And the notion that you can change your fuel substrate from carbohydrates and glucose to fat ketones is a hard pill to swallow. But as keto has become more popular, more prevalent, you just see people massively performing in all different sectors in the bodybuilding space, powerlifting, endurance athletes. I mean, the notion that you can't perform at a high level without carbohydrates is hopefully on the way out because there's just been so many athletes that have, you know, proven just the opposite. Right. You just did an amazing podcast with Mark Bell. Mm-hmm, yep. Yeah, he's pretty strong too. Yeah, and he's pretty much doing a ketogenic carnivore approach right now as well. I flew out there to California, spent a day working out with him, and I mean, he used to be huge. I mean, he was a, you know, world record-holding powerlifter, and he's just taking a different approach to his nutrition now, and he's thriving with a ketogenic diet. And so many people are. I mean, you look at some of these endurance athletes like Mike McKnight, he's gearing up for the Cocodona 250, so 250 miles through the desert and mountains all with a low-carb approach. So it just, in my opinion, is a better diet. It's more ancestrally consistent, it's less taxing on the body, there's lower inflammation with it, and from a longevity standpoint it makes a lot more sense. I mean, my brain functions better with it, so I think there's, the benefits abound for a ketogenic low-carb approach to nutrition. Yeah, especially, I mean, for me, and I did experiment my second year of this whole reverse diet, I did have more carbohydrates, and you know, my guy who programs my lifting encouraged me to do that, and it was all, you know, healthy, like sweet potatoes and stuff like that, and I love those foods, but I really generally did not notice a difference or an improvement in my strength, and if anything, when I was doing labs, my insulin just kept going up, which just shows also, for me, the disposition to be insulin-resistant despite all the exercise is a very real issue for someone like me, and that contributes a lot to weight loss resistance. So for someone who's having those hormone issues, it's not just about the calories, and you know, I know I was shocked that, you know, the calories were an important part of the conversation, and I think they are, and there's a place for them, but the insulin conversation is a stronger piece because I noticed that when I got really, really strict back into my keto, and I still stayed around 2,100, things started to move. Yeah, I think there's, you've got all of the evidence-based bro dieting community that prioritizes calories and the energy balance exclusively, you've got a lot of people in the low-carb space that only look at the insulin model of obesity, and I feel like both are just missing the boat. Why would you not look at them in tandem, in unison? I mean, if you're accounting for your fuel intake, your caloric intake, and you know, making appropriate decisions there, and you're eating foods that, you know, allow for better hormonal health and more regulated insulin levels, then the likelihood that you'll succeed is significantly increased. So looking at them as two parts of the same coin, I think is very important. Agreed. Let's talk protein for a sec. I saw your recent post about too much protein and not enough fat. So the general wisdom is, you know, the one gram per pound of body weight, or ideal body weight. What's your approach for someone you're trying to take to stage, and is there too much protein, which could be something in the conversation if you're doing carnivore, a carnivore of keto. Is there such thing as too much? Yeah, it's interesting because when I got back into, when I got into the keto space way back in 2014-2015, everybody was fearful of protein, you know, out of fear of gluconeogenesis, so they were doing incredibly high dietary fat and hardly any protein, and now it's like the pendulum has swung so far the opposite direction, that protein's been given this halo, and the notion is that you can't over consume protein. Again, the answer lies somewhere in the middle. If you're trying to optimize your fuel from a fat metabolism standpoint, and you've only got so much fuel to work with, i.e. so many calories to work with and consume throughout the course of a 24-hour period, then you have to have that healthy blend of dietary fat and protein. You see a lot of people that are just consuming excessive amounts of protein and not ample dietary fat, and then their energy tanks, their hormones suffer, they just don't perform ideally. What I like to do is I'll start people with a lower protein intake, about 80% of their calories coming from fat, and then slowly titrate the protein up while I'm simultaneously dropping the fat down to find that individual's unique protein threshold. At any point beyond that, they're likely going to be at point of diminishing returns. I mean, there's been chapters in my life where I'd really try and push the needle on protein, but if you're consuming, especially as an athlete, you know, one gram of protein per pound of lean mass, or sometimes upwards of one and a half, maybe even two, you may be able to tolerate that. But there's no really inherent need in consuming three, four grams of protein per pound of lean mass, which I've done in the past. But when I do, my blood glucose increases, my ketones drop, I have more aches and pains, more inflammation, I just don't feel nearly as cognitively sharp. So there's definitely a point of diminishing return for protein for sure. Is the goal to be in ketosis all the time? What's your opinion on that? Not necessarily. I mean, I've gone 10 years now without a carbohydrate-based meal, but if I'm at a caloric surplus, I'm really trying to push the needle on adding more lean tissue. My ketones are typically lower, oftentimes below 0.5, so by the standard definition of 0.5 or greater, I'm technically not in ketosis. But since I'm not consuming carbohydrates as a fuel, I'm still fat-adapted. My body is using fat metabolism, it's breaking down the fats and proteins I'm consuming for its needs. So if you're eating primarily fats and proteins and you're feeling great, and everything is functioning as it should, even if you're not registering 0.5, you're still being fueled by fat, and I don't think that's any hindrance to performance from a ketogenic standpoint. Now, when I'm in a deficit and my body is burning more fat, both dietary fat and stored fat, my ketones, by definition, typically increase, and I feel great in that setting as well. But if I'm feeling great in a surplus and I'm not over-consuming protein, then I still consider myself totally ketogenic, even though my ketone readings via beta-hydroxybutyrate blood prick test may not be that high. Okay, so let's pivot to a fat loss phase, to a prep. What's a healthy amount of fat loss that someone should experience? Like what is the rate that you would recommend, week over week, in a prep? Yeah, so first things first, you want to make sure you've got enough time to healthfully and sustainably lose the weight. So, I mean, I've lost 80 pounds in 12 weeks before, but I wouldn't recommend that on my worst enemy. It's just not good. I dieted way too aggressively. That was before I found keto. I lost a lot of muscle in that process. So, knowing where you're at to start, knowing what your baseline composition is, making sure that you have healthy hormonal markers and blood metrics, and then figuring out what the goal body fat percentage is at the conclusion of that cut, and then finding out how much total body fat you need to lose to reach that goal, and recognizing that you're going to lose some lean mass in that process. Now, keep in mind, lean mass is not necessarily muscle mass. That's going to be everything that's not adipose tissue. So, fluid retention, all that stuff is counted towards lean mass. So, you're going to lose some mass that is not specifically fat mass, but it's not necessarily muscle tissue. And to do so in a sustainable way where you're not risking the loss of muscle tissue, a good rate of loss is about one pound a week on average. There may be some weeks where you're losing two or three pounds. There may be some weeks where you're gaining a pound or not losing anything. But if you're to extrapolate your fat loss phase over the course of three, four, or five, six months, and then try to average about one pound loss per week, that's a pretty healthy average. Okay, great. So, what would you suggest to someone who hits a plateau and is not losing more fat, say, like after two weeks on their prep? So, there's been preps where I've gone ten weeks and only lost about five pounds over the course of ten weeks. But a lot is happening internally that isn't visible on the scale necessarily. So, this is why I'm a huge advocate for taking pictures, taking body composition scans, tracking your lifting metrics, and making sure that things are still moving even if it's not necessarily reflected on the bathroom scale when you weigh in on the mornings. Keep in mind, too, that when you are manipulating your calories, ideally in a very gradual setting so that you're not dropping 500 calories at a time, if you're doing so very gradually, there's a lag, you know, approach to it. Like, you may be chipping away at your intake and, you know, your body weight may kind of have this lag effect where you're not seeing this massive drop in scale weight over that same time period. So, I like to make the nutritional manipulations the pillar of changing my body composition. Then, as my body starts to become resistant to those changes in macros or the drop in calories, then I can slowly increase cardio, but I'm very minimal with that as well. I try to treat cardio as a minimum viable dose approach, so as little cardio as I can do to elicit a favorable response. So, if I'm chipping away at my intake and the scale is not budging over the course of several weeks, I may just slowly titrate that cardio up by adding a couple minutes to the StairMaster or something of that nature. So, really incremental? Super incremental. I mean, very, very gradual. Like, I'm typically adjusting calories by, you know, five or ten grams on protein or fat per week, which may equate to 25 to 50 calories dropped a week, and then increasing the cardio by one or two minutes a week. So, very, very sustainable, very gradual. Oh, that's so, that's so interesting. Yeah, people, that's not what, you know, most people think. They're like, I have to do another hour, you know, really pull levers a lot harder than that. And when you do that, you just, you're setting yourself up for burnout and it's just not sustainable. Like, if you're, if you're changing by five or ten gram increments in your food, then, you know, one week you may be eating six eggs, the next week you may be eating everything else the same and then only five eggs. It's much easier to approach your breakfast meal and see one less egg there than one less meal altogether. So, when you're in a prep, do you, do you consistently just stay with, like, you've taken away the egg and now you keep that egg out? Or do you cycle through, like, add that egg back in at some point every few days? How do you approach that deficit? I typically adjust my macros every week so that I can keep some, you know, constant pressure applied to my body. That constant pressure allows you to build up that momentum to bust through those plateaus. So, I'll typically adjust my macros every single week, even if I'm on target and trending in the right direction, to build up that momentum. And then, it's normally dropping over the course of that entire prep cycle, granted, incrementally week to week, but once I get towards the end, I'll start implementing some ketogenic caloric refeeds and those oftentimes start at about a 30% increase in calories above my baseline at that point. So, those, you know, we'll see food coming back in, but you don't want to be premature in implementing those refeeds because that can then shunt your further fat loss. Gotcha, okay. Because I have unintentionally had some refeeds that are 27, 2800 days. The hunger is real, usually from two workouts a day, but it it didn't seem to inhibit the weight loss, which was good. But now, things are slowing down because I'm at the weight I was when I started the reverse with you. So, I think I lost what I gained, but my body's like, okay, well, we had trouble losing from that point, so this is where this is where a breakthrough needs to happen. So, yeah, I'm very, very curious. And you could do, like, some people will do, like, legitimate diet breaks and they'll, you know, have a week at a deficit and then a week at maintenance, then a week at a deficit, and then a week at maintenance or above maintenance, but then when you look at it like that, you're basically just increasing the total time that you will need to be in a fat loss phase overall. And for me, like, my longest prep is 33 weeks long. That's very mentally taxing. So, you have to kind of weigh out, you know, how long do you want to live this more rigid, structured, you know, life versus returning to some degree of normalcy. So, I typically take the approach of, let me just dedicate the next six months, seven months to a legitimate, hardcore, focused competition prep, get down to the competition that I want, and then reverse that out of that and then return to some degree of normalcy for the next two or three years before I do it again, as opposed to just constantly dipping your toe in and out of the cold water and never really reaching the goal in the first place. That's something to think about, Robert, because I think that, you know, someone like you, like a true pro bodybuilder, is a special breed, right? Very special, very precise, just like, you know, any elite athlete, just very dialed in. And I would consider myself someone who's more probably like your average Joe. So, I, you know, just speaking for myself, but someone who wants to, you know, really genuinely wants to recomposition their body without the interest of, you know, getting a pro card, but genuinely wants to look better in a bathing suit, feel better about themselves, have more confidence, without having all those hormone down regulations that do happen in a prep, right? But maybe not having, you Yeah, and I totally respect that, too. Like, there's, anything that I'm saying here isn't like a universal, one-size-fits-all approach. Like, I am a competitive bodybuilder, so I structure my life for that goal specifically. But, I mean, I work with clients that are not trying to step on stage and they just want to, you know, lose 20, 30 pounds and improve their health for sure. So, in that setting, you know, it's much easier to have, you know, this back-and-forth where Like, I've got one client right now that's been working with me for a while, and he has, like, he has no desires to compete. He just wants to lose 30 pounds and get in better shape and improve his health. And, you know, he's constantly going out to dinner and having things that are not part of the quote-unquote plan, but we're structured in a way that he's still making forward progress. And progress is the main thing. Like, you got to make today better than yesterday, tomorrow better than today. And that's going to look different for different people. So, yeah, you really just got to be honest with yourself and figure out what is going to be sustainable for you and what lifestyle do you want to live. That's such a good point. So, for anyone who's out there who does want to be a serious bodybuilder, what are some of those general rules? I'm imagining never go out to dinner. You have to measure everything, track everything, weigh everything. What are some of the rules you live by in a prep? So, my last prep, my goal was to not just win the competition, but to literally become the leanest man on planet Earth. So, I took the extreme side of the spectrum on every decision that was made. And what that looked like for me was every meal was prepped in advance, every macro was accounted for, zero deviations whatsoever, no missed training sessions, no missed posing sessions, no missed macros for 33 weeks. Now, most people have no desire to do that and I don't blame them, but that's what it looked like for me. So, posing. There's so many different categories, right, within bodybuilding and posing is an important part of being on stage. Mm-hmm. How much practice did you put in into your posing when you prepped? Because I saw your competition that you did in November of 2023. Mm-hmm. Wow. Guys, he was 3% body fat and his posing and his routine was next level. So, how much time did you put into that? Thank you. First of all, I appreciate it. It's awesome that you were able to be there. Posing is super important and like the sport of bodybuilding, people don't understand it. Like, people that are not in that realm. If I was not in that realm, I would look at the sport. That's freaking weird. You got a bunch of people up there on in, you know, little skivvies posing for a panel of judges like it looks like something you see in a strip club, not in everyday society. And I get it. Like, I get it that it's strange. But it's more so a mental sport than a physical one for sure. Like, what I come out of each prep having gained mentally and emotionally and psychologically is the reason I do it. All that to say, with the posing, you know, you put in all this work. So, for me, it was 33 weeks for this last prep. You know, you're only on stage for a handful of minutes and you just want to be able to showcase all that work correctly for the judges in a way that just, you know, brings your best appearance to the stage, so to speak. So, posing is very important. It's very sad when somebody puts in all this work, loses all this weight, gets in the best shape of their life and they don't know how to exhibit it to the best of their benefit. So, posing is key. And I typically really start getting serious with my posing two or three months out from the competition. And then I get to the point where I'm holding each pose in practice up to a minute for each pose, which is incredibly strenuous and taxing. But in doing so, I can confidently hit the poses on stage without, you know, shaking like a leaf and just clearly being exhausted in the process. And that really sets you apart from the other competitors that don't put in that work towards posing. And then as far as the routine goes, this last prep was the first one where I actually hired a professional posing coach to choreograph a routine for me. And I just wanted to, I just wanted this last prep to be the pinnacle of everything involved in the sport. And bringing a well-implemented routine to the stage was a goal of mine, but you certainly don't have to go to that extreme with it. And you've poured so much love and attention into this new bodybuilding course. So for people who want to learn more about your methodology, can you tell us more about your course? You obviously also have a book. Tell us more about like those resources. Yeah, so I kind of developed this, you know, protocol, this seven-phase system for how I go about, you know, optimizing fat loss and building and preserving muscle with a ketogenic approach through trial and error over the years and having worked with, you know, 600 plus clients now. And then I wrote the book, I believe in 2020 or 21, something like that is when it was published. And then the course is basically the framework of the book, but in a much more involved layout with, you know, video and just much more engagement. It basically walks people through the exact protocol and how to apply it to them as an individual. The whole goal being to remove the need to hire a coach. Like if you go through the course, then that's the only resource you'll ever need to get in the best shape of your life via this ketogenic protocol. And then, you know, it's got the bodybuilding undertones like the posing and things like that that are relevant to the sport of bodybuilding. But it's the same protocol that I use for, you know, my 73-year-old female clients that want to have a more vibrant life with their grandkids and get healthier. So the protocol works regardless of the goal necessarily. It's just got that bodybuilding-esque undertone to it. And then there's a community group where people are engaged. And I mean, you're on there frequently on Tuesdays. We do a live call every Tuesday. So there's this community aspect to it because I think having other people in your corner that can hold you accountable and be there for you is key. It's got this AI dashboard that we built out. There's just a lot of tools for the taking there within the Savage system. Yeah, definitely. So many good tools and resources in the community, right? Everybody needs a coach for something that they don't have any expertise in, you know? So yeah, thank you for being that for me. Absolutely. The whole body recomp journey has been so interesting and hopefully will help some, you know, people who are struggling. For people who think it's not possible to gain muscle in your 40s, 50s, 60s, what do you say to them? It's totally possible. I mean, I've got one of the guys picking up the live call. You know, we got a guy on there who chimes in every week named Steve. He's 71 or 72, I think, something like that. He just started doing this and he's, you know, blowing himself away with how much muscle he's put on after getting into lifting in his 70s. I mean, muscle is so important as we all know that. That is the, you know, longevity, you know, component. Then that comes into play. The more muscle you have, the better you'll age, the better you'll live, the healthier you'll be. And it goes way beyond the scope of just stepping on stage as a competitive bodybuilder, but just simply having more muscle is paramount. I mean, I've got my mom. My mom, you know, she adopted a ketogenic approach about three years ago after enough nagging from me and got her into lifting weights. And she's just way healthier now. And I feel like I'll be able to enjoy many more years with her as a result of that lifestyle shift. And that's the main thing I want for everybody. We live in a very sick, unhealthy society. And if there's anything I can do to help move the needle in the right direction, help empower people to take initiative of their own health and just live a better day to day, you know, life, then by all means go for it. I think natural bodybuilding, ketogenic dieting, weight training, those are all things that are very tangible that people can implement to do just that. I agree. Well, I want to thank you so much for joining me today and doing this live. I think the conversation is super important. It seems to be in the zeitgeist now that women should be eating protein at least and strength training and doing less cardio, more walking, you know, it seems to be, regardless of whether people love or hate keto, at least, you know, that those things are being talked about. But yeah, I think it's important for women in particular to know about reverse dieting. And they don't need to be as sloppy as I was. But it's important because women, the messaging is always about being smaller. And if they focus actually on getting bigger, they would be smaller. Yeah. I mean, it's I'm hopeful that people don't associate. I think now the shift, the conversation has shifted away from just simply the relationship with your scale weights and more so towards what that weight is comprised of, like what is your actual composition. And that's a good thing because like the weight does not tell the whole picture. I mean, you have to have a healthy ratio of body fat to muscle mass. And I feel like regardless of the diet you're following, regardless of the sex you are, we all would benefit from eating better quality foods, more wholesome, nutrient dense, single sourced foods, and lifting more weight. So 100%. Well, thanks again. It's good to see you. And congrats on the expanding family and all the exciting projects that you have going on. Robert's also the founder of keto brick. It's it's a great bar to support your athletic performance. So you can check that out as well. Thanks for all you do, Robert. And thanks for being my being my buddy. Hey, my pleasure. I'm so grateful that we met way back when. And we've kept in touch over the years. I'm super proud of you for all you've accomplished. And I'm just excited to see what the next chapter holds. So thank you. All right, well, have an awesome day. You as well.