Action Is The Antidote To Doomscrolling Anxiety - Edward Norton EXTENDED INTERVIEW

You know my first guest tonight from movies like Fight Club, Birdman, and A Complete Unknown. Please welcome back to The Late Show, Edward Norton. Good to see you. Great to be here again. You're looking, you're looking well. You too. How you been? I've been, I've been okay. Yeah? Yeah. It's been a year since we had you on the show. I had a good time talking to you last year. You were on for A Complete Unknown, just a great performance as Pete Seeger. We talked about how meaningful that man is. And what's the latest? What do you want to talk about tonight? You got a project? I don't know, nothing. You just, you just? I just, I wanted to see the old joint one more time. Okay. And I thought, I love our conversations. I thought, you know, we could probably stick a fork in a few things, get in a little trouble. That'd be good. Yeah. I like just talking to interesting people. You're an interesting guy. Nothing to sell. Though I did hear that you got a new movie with Penelope Cruz and Seth Rogen, right? Yes. What's that called? It's called The Invite. The Invite. And that was a huge hit at Sundance. And do you have a clip of that or anything? I do not. No. No, I tell you. I hear it's really good though. A clip would be great if you had anything. It's really, really good. Seth has never been funnier or better. I will say that I think Olivia Wilde will get nominated for directing this film. You can take that to the prediction markets. Okay, great. That's news. But it doesn't come out until the summer. Okay. So you're not here. You're going to already be on vacation. Yeah, I will be off. I'll be off. Yeah. I did see, and I know you're not probably, I don't know, but I'll ask you about this. I did see that you were actually, you're producing and starring in a movie with Bad Bunny called Puerto Rico about Puerto Rico. And he's got the leading role, right? Bad Bunny. Yep. One of the biggest guys in the world. That's really exciting. Very. Anything you want to say about that? I cannot. Okay. It's very political. It's going to be very provocative. We're keeping it under wraps. The guy directing it, René, the guy directing it, René Joglar, who's better known as Residente and from his band Cayetrese, he is one of Puerto Rico's great music artists and directors. And he's directing it and Viggo Mortensen's in it with me and Javier Bardem. And Bad Bunny. And I think it will be one of the very hot films of 2027, but you will be on tour. That's right. I will be on tour. I also, I read there's other things you've been up to, not just like, you know, on camera or producing and stuff like that. Enterprises outside of film. Can I guess what it is? My side hustles? Yeah, your side hustle. Can I guess your side hustle? You're determined to make me promote something. No, I'm not going to make you. I'm just curious. I heard because you were in something that wasn't acting. That's true. You have a new tequila. No, no, not at all. George Clooney just cornered the tequila market. OK, you have a celebrity gin. I do not. Ryan Reynolds does gin. OK. And he did, I think he did a breath mint mobile, a phone that freshens your breath or something. I can't remember, but he's got that. You have a line of watches or something. I think Austin Butler is on the watch. OK, you have a fashion, fashion. It is it is Chalamet's world. OK, I am I'm just dressing in Chalamet's. You have a fragrance. You smell like Edward. Tom Hardy, if you go through if you go through the duty free at the airport, you will not find me. OK, yeah, don't come to me. Do you have do you have like a nonprofit or something like that, like a public service organization or anything like that? If you're if you are a first responder and you need someone cooking for you, you want Jose Andres, right? Not me. Do you have any sort of relief organization? Do anything for other people? Sean Penn completely cornered it. He took he took Haiti. Yes, he took Ukraine. He did. He he licked Haiti. Yeah, and I mean, he didn't even show up to get his third Oscar because Zelensky called him and said, I need you in. Oh, is that why he wasn't at the Oscars? I thought he had to stay home and eat all the cigarettes. He was in Ukraine. No, but also, let's just let's just be honest. Yes. Have you seen his bicep size of his arm? He's jacked. If you're in trouble and you want someone coming to rescue you in a crisis. Yeah, you want that guy. Now you don't want me. I don't want you. So I don't want you. No, I want to know what I'm giving a photo. And I don't know if you don't do anything. No, I do. The things you won't talk about. What I but what is what the hell is that? What is going on? See, I thought I everything that's sexy. I went the other way and and I got into barges. You have a bar. I do. I have a barge company. Except what we what we do it it look at put it back up. Look. Yeah. This is one of our barges. What? Why did you get into barges? Because it has a 13 story crane and we put it over the smokestacks of big cargo ships when they're in port and we capture all of their toxic pollution when they're in port. And what do you do with it? It's called it's called stacks. And and yeah. And we last year we eliminated the emissions equivalent to 65 million cars being taken off the road because these. No way. How wait, how did you get started? How do you know that's not something you stumble on? I met a brilliant engineer named Bob Sharp who invented these systems and needed help levitating this. And over the last eight years, we've turned this into a global company. We operate in ports all over because here's an interesting thing. We're very, you know, fractured, polarized world. Republicans and Democrats alike. People don't want toxic emissions in their cities, right? It's killing people. It's yeah. And this is this isn't carbon. It's not it's not it's not an argument about greenhouse gas and carbon. This is the toxic stuff that gets in our lungs, kills people in the air. And everybody wants it. The shippers want it out. The cities want it out. And we just had to figure out how to do it. But it really is. It really is amazing. And I think we feel we can eliminate the emissions that ships are putting out. I mean, that's great that you're doing this. It seems like an interesting, unusual. I've never no guess has ever promoted this before. I'm curious. I can see why someone would do this. Why do you why do you want to do this? Like, what is it? What do you get out of this other than being nice for other people? How does this heal your soul? Well, you know, in all seriousness, I, I, I do look at what's what's going on in our in this country, in the world. And and it it gives me enormous anxiety, you know, enormous anxiety. And I have kids. And I, I really, you know, I want to say I very I really have always appreciated. We all appreciate that you make space and time on on this show to talk about, I think, the hard stuff, you know, grief and faith. And and it's been a real gift to everybody. And I, I, I was thinking about this. I think that it is it's worth acknowledging that that the anxiety of of these times is is particularly intense for a lot of people right now. I think that I think that we know the world is effed up in in ways that are unprecedented in in our lifetimes. But we also live we live in this unbelievable onslaught of information. You know, we we we see genocide being live streamed to us. We we see American citizens being killed by paramilitary people in our own streets for for standing in solidarity with their neighbors. We're seeing Epstein's abuses titrated into us on a daily basis. And and it is such a conundrum because we know we know that there's a value. We know that it's good in some ways to know what is actually happening, to know what's happening in Gaza, to know what's happening in Ukraine and Sudan and Minneapolis. But at the same time, it is very difficult to know what we as an individual person can do about all of that while moving through our day. And and I think in me, it's I have found it very difficult. Like I have I have really struggled in my anxiety about it all with the idea even of making art anymore. I I really have gotten to the point that you're asking about movies. I I'm not sure I haven't lost my conviction that that movies aren't a frivolity that we can't afford right now, you know. And and as I've gone through that, I really you say, why do something like this? Well, I have noticed in myself over the last few years that that if I do scroll and stay in it, I can really go down the hole as we all can. And I think that for me, the only antidote to the anxiety has been has been action, you know, some kind of action. And and I think I think that I think that, you know, we we have to we have when we're here, we have to speak out against war, especially illegal, asymmetric war being waged against civilians no matter what the rationale we and and and against the idea of that that law enforcement should ever wear a mask. You know, I don't think anybody, nobody but an actor, an actor or a child on Halloween should be wearing a mask in the street trying to scare somebody. That is not what law enforcement that respects the the second, first and fourth amendments does to its own citizenry. That is that is we know that's not right. We know it's not. I want to jump in here for just one second. A moment ago, you talked about like all the information that we get and then you talked about doom scrolling. Yeah. And the doom scrolling is how we get so much of that information these days, which, of course, has very little to do with wanting to inform you. It actually wants to harvest your anxiety for profit. I think less that we're being informed and more we're under psychological attack at all times. Yes. And both both forces inside and outside of our country. Yeah. To confuse us about the reality of the world and really to pull us into the hole, because that's where they want to keep us in order to harvest our information in order to make a profit off of what it's like to be a human being in the face of both joy and horror at the same time. And do you ever feel that a spell is being cast on us as if there literally is witchcraft being acted on us? Yes. Well, I think it's a great way of putting it, because I think we we we have to understand we have to stand to the side of ourselves and see that induced anxiety, intentionally induced anxiety is intended to cause paralysis. It is intended to, in a way, keep us from acting. And and it's why the real world and the real life, you say, why do this? Well, you know, like capturing the emissions off of boats and port has nothing to do with ice or Gaza. I can't remediate those things with anything other than my voice. But at least it gives me something to anchor my feet in on a daily basis that makes me feel like I, I am acting, you know, on a daily basis, something real, something. Yeah. And I think we and that's just the weird currents of life introduced me to my partner, Bob. And we got this thing going. You know what I mean? Every everybody's got something. Everybody's got something small that they're good at, that they can contribute. And the total collective weight of that is Pete Seeger's teaspoon grade that we talked about a year ago. We we do need to all pick up our teaspoons and do something. And we really need, I think, to not listen to people who I can hear it out there, people saying actors stay in your lane, you know, but we are American citizens. And anyone who says stay in your lane, tell them to get stuffed because we know that they're really in my view. I think we have we have two lanes. We have a lane in which you have conviction that the rule of law and democracy and compassion are the fundamental tenets of American society. And in the other lane, you believe that those things are inconvenient to power. And and that lane has gotten really loud and unapologetic. And we need to be loud in our lane. You've you've been loud. You've this show is closing down because you got so loud. And and and the rest of us, the rest of us need to pick that microphone up and and keep being loud. Well, this this isn't the first time you and I have had conversations somewhat around that around this area. You and I lucky enough to have your number. We text every so often because I'm fancy. And and and I say, what are you scrolling? What do you what have you seen in your doom scroll? Just just just projects that include Edward Norton. Now, you and I were recently texting that as as intense as things seem right now, that there is solace and knowing that people from every generation have dealt with their moments of anxiety. And often that is expressed through the art of the time, which can speak to something eternal that is in the human experience. And you and I both are big fans of Walt Whitman, who not enough people read anymore. And you and I were talking about crossing Brooklyn Ferry. And I'm wondering what that poem means to you. I think that you're 100 percent right. And I will say even when the wonderful Ian McKellen, who's really a mentor and friend and inspiration of mine since I was a teenager, when he came out here and and read Shakespeare's text about the immigrant, it it it's the rebuttal to what I was saying about art feeling like because you there are times whether it's Shakespeare or or Bob Dylan and Pete Seeger and revisiting what they had to say or something else, when you realize that that artists are capable of speaking through time in some sense and reminding us that that everybody in every time has gone through these moments, these anxieties. Everyone has struggled with their chapter of anxiety. And in that sense of bondedness, there's maybe some hope, I think. And I do think Whitman, what we were, you know, I think reflecting on was that Whitman of all American poets, he he really seemed to understand that though he stood somewhere in time, he was speaking to you and me right now. And he was thinking about us. And he and he and he wanted he wanted to convey in some sense that we're still in this all together. And it's possible. And, you know, he Crossing Brooklyn Ferry and also Song of Myself, he he has the most electrifying capacity to sound like he's sitting here with us right now. Talking about anxieties and joys and and how to balance them and all of it. I know you love Crossing Brooklyn Ferry. Would you be able to do any of it for us? Sure. You brought that up. And I will say for the purists, for the Whitman purists, we have technology. He goes on and on. Oh, no, it would take 20 minutes. So as 20 days, I I've taken the liberty of distilling a little bit of Crossing Brooklyn Ferry and even Song of Myself, because I think in both of those poems, he spoke to so much of what we're all going through and what we're talking about here. Well, I don't know what you want to do. Well, I'll set the scene. You know, remember that Walt Whitman almost daily walked across the Brooklyn Bridge to Manhattan here. And this is 170 years ago, 170 years ago, he wrote these lines standing about standing on the Brooklyn Bridge crossing from Brooklyn into Manhattan. Flood tide below me. I see you face to face. Clouds of the West Sun there half an hour high. I see you also face to face. Crowds of men and women attired in the usual costumes on the ferry boats. The hundreds and hundreds that cross returning home are more curious to me than you suppose. And you, you, Stephen Colbert from New Jersey, you and you that shall cross from shore to shore years hence are more to me and more in my meditations than you might suppose. Just as you feel when you look on the river and the sky. So I felt just as any of you is one of a living crowd. I was one of a crowd. Just as you are refreshed by the gladness of the river and the bright flow, I was refreshed. So what is it then between us? What is the count or the scores of hundreds of years between us? Whatever it is, it avails not. Distance avails not and place avails not. I too lived. Brooklyn of ample hills was mine. I too walked the streets of Manhattan Island. I too felt the curious, abrupt questionings stir within me. In the day among crowds of people, sometimes they came upon me. In my walks home late at night or as I lay in my bed, they came upon me. It is not upon you alone. The dark patches fall. The dark threw its patches down on me also. The best that I had done seemed to me blank and suspicious. My great thoughts, as I supposed them, were they not in reality meager? Nor is it you alone who know what it is to see evil. I knew what it was to see evil. Lies, theft, grudges, guile, anger, lust, vanity, greed, the shallow, sly, cowardly, and malignant, hate, meanness, meanness, battles, the horrors of fratricidal war, the fever of doubtful news, the fitful events. These come to me days and nights and go from me again. But they are not the me myself. You, men and women of a generation 50 years hence, 100 years hence, or ever so many hundred years hence, I am with you. There was never any more inception than there is now, nor any more youth or age than there is now, and will never be any more perfection than there is now, nor any more heaven or hell than there is now. So flow on, river. Flow on with the flood tide, ebb with the ebb tide. Gorgeous clouds of the sunset drench with your splendor me or the men and women of generations after me. Stand up, tall masts of Manahatta. Stand up, beautiful hills of Brooklyn. Throb, baffled, curious brain. Throw out questions and answers. Live, live old life. Play the part that looks back on the actor or the actress, the role that's as great or small as one makes it. Play your role. Edward Norton, everybody. We'll be right back.