Toxic or Not： ROMEO + JULIET

Did my heart love till now? It's held up as the greatest romance in the history of narrative. If the things they're saying about each other are true, this is a love story for the ages. They have no f***ing clue. And let's be very clear. This isn't love because love requires you to truly see them, to know them, and to accept them. These violent delights have violent ends. Does that love me? They're both decent, loving, good people. If they had just held on, they might have made it. Hello and welcome to Cinema Therapy. I'm Jonathan Decker, licensed therapist who loves movies. This is... Alan Seawright, a professional filmmaker who needs therapy. And today we're going to be taking a look at Boz Luhrmann's William Shakespeare's Romeo Plus Juliet. Presented by MTV. And heroin. This is going to be a toxic or not on Romeo and Juliet as a couple and as a story. Because it's held up as the greatest romance in the history of narrative, right? Toxic is defined as corrosive and insidious and destructive. And so what we're looking at in these toxic or nots is not, is this unhealthy? Or are there things about this that could use some work? It's, is this literally destructive and corrosive? Dismove that rough touch. Good pilgrim, you do wrong your hand too much, which mannerly devotion shows in this. For saints have hands that pilgrim's hands do touch. And palm to palm is holy palmer's kiss. She has the most luminous eyes of almost anybody. It's wild. And I hate to say this about Shakespeare, but for the purposes of our episode, the words here are less important than the context. He literally just saw her for the first time. And literally yesterday was in love with Rosalind. Yes. And this is their first time they're conversing. 45 seconds ago they started. I love the score to this film though. It really does sell that overwhelming hope and optimism of just finding somebody and thinking this is it. Well this movie not only captures, but in many ways, at least for me, defined the excitement and flash and shine and gloss of young first immediate love. Infatuation, whatever it is you want to call it. Right. And it's not that she has a boyfriend, it's that... She can't be led. His name is Romeo. And with a Montague, the only son of your great enemy. So many things to be thinking here. We could never be together because we're from warring families, or is this person, I've been taught my whole life that this family, they're all scum. And yet, what a delightful, luminous, light-filled person I've just met. I'm clearly, totally, completely in love and my entire life has changed. Or has it? I don't know. Our critique is actually not about William Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet. It's about how the public has responded to it through the ages. Right. Because we could sit here and say, well Shakespeare was dumb and this isn't real love. Shakespeare knew it. Shakespeare was writing that this is dumb and bad. Young love is this all-consuming thing and it shouldn't be. It is natural to fall this deeply, madly in love when you're... A teenager, yeah. 13, 14, 16, however old you're supposed to be. But that's not real life. And I remember being in middle school and high school and seeing somebody. You just see him in the hall and you're like, who's that? And then like, do you remember, you had this feeling. And like all week, your every thought is this person. This is your brain on hormones and a lack of temperance that comes from maturity. This is your brain on underdeveloped. Because this whole story is about temperance. Yes. The need for moderation, the need for control, the need for patience. The families lack temperance with each other. Correct. Which is why they're warring. The lack of temperance leads to viciousness, leads to vendettas, leads to vengeance. The lack of temperance between Romeo and Juliet leads them to throw all caution to the wind instantaneously because it feels so good to meet someone with whom there is an instant attraction. And let's be very clear. This isn't love because love requires you to see someone for who they are. To truly see them, to know them, and to accept them. That's what makes it love. Oh, so you're saying you can't actually be in love 30 seconds after you meet someone and you're making out in an elevator? You can't because you can't truly know them yet. What you can have is instant attraction. And oftentimes, people who are in love and who stay in love, it started with instant attraction. It started with instant attraction. Love at first sight, not real. Love coming from first sight? Yeah. All the time? Yeah. I think that happened with you and Megan. You saw her and you're like... For me? You know what might have helped the Montagues and the Capulets? Group therapy? Yes! Or family therapy for Romeo or Juliet to talk to their parents. Yeah. They should have used BetterHelp. If only it had existed in 14th century Italy. Or in 90s Verona Beach. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. BetterHelp connects you with a licensed therapist who is trained to listen and give you helpful, unbiased advice. To get started, click the link below or go to betterhelp.com forward slash cinematherapy and fill out the questionnaire to assess your specific needs. You'll get matched with a therapist, in most cases, in 48 hours or less. And they're committed to helping you find a therapist who's a good fit for you. So you can easily switch to a new therapist at no additional cost. If the first one you're matched with isn't a great fit. BetterHelp has a network of over 30,000 therapists with a wide range of expertise. You can also choose a time that's convenient for your schedule. And you can choose how you want to do your therapy sessions. A phone call, video chat, or even via messaging. You can even have your sessions in iambic pentameter if you want. Quoth no, no therapist hath time for that. Over 4 million people have used BetterHelp to start living a healthier, happier life. If you think that you might benefit from therapy, click the link below or go to betterhelp.com forward slash cinematherapy. You'll get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. So you can connect with a therapist and see if it helps you. Soft. What dog through yonder window breaks? Wait, why are you breaking through a window? What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other word would smell as sweet. So Romeo would were he not Romeo called. Retain that dear perfection which he owes without that title. And did he not have the last name of my enemy. He would still be the sweet young man. Or, maybe not sweet in this moment. I take this at work. Listen, immaculate staging and blocking by Baz Luhrmann. I was gonna say. How else are you gonna get Leonardo DiCaprio's hair wet which is his entire persona in the 90s. Oh my gosh. The garden walls are high and hard to climb in a place death considering who thou art. Love's like wings that I approach these walls. And listen, again, this is a commentary on young love because this is double edged sword. Because it's so new. Because you've never experienced it before. It's so pure and innocent and sincere. And yet it's not based on any sort of personal experience. It's not based on any sort of maturity. It's not based on any actual knowledge of the person. They're both creating a mythologized version of the other person. Which is why it feels so romantic. Because if the things they're saying about each other are true. This is a love story for the ages. They have no clue. No way of knowing that. It's so pure and innocent and beautiful. But it's such a rush. Until you get your heart really broken for the first time. You just kind of toss all concern out the window. And just go for it. We learn from our first heartbreak. Temperance in future relationships. And Shakespeare is commenting on. These two are just running with it. Throwing caution to the wind. He's like, I don't care about the guards. Let them slay me. It doesn't matter because I love you. Tell you what. Me in my 40s. I'm going to care about some guards with guns. Swords. They call them swords. Give me my longsword home. You learn it from your first heartbreak. And your next. For some of us. A couple dozen. Heartbreaks. A couple dozen egads. You knew me. I know. When I was single. I was not good at it. I just didn't realize. I was great at it. I just didn't realize the number was that high. Also I really wanted to say egads somewhere in this episode. Well, check that off. But, Soft. What clip approaches? Egads. Again, because with age and experience. What satisfaction can't thou have tonight? Exactly. I love that she shuts him down. If thy love's faithful, vow for mine. Oh, it's romance. See, it's just about the faithful. I said request it. What satisfaction are you going to get tonight? Just tell me that you love me. And she's like, oh, okay. I do think that's very sweet. Even if, once again, this could be the seed of love. This could grow into a life-long one-in-a-million love story. But they don't know each other. So it's not actual love yet. If thy bent of love be honorable, thy purpose marriage. Send me word tomorrow by one that I'll procure to come to thee. Where and what time thou wilt perform the rite. And all my fortunes at thy foot I'll lay. And follow thee, my love. I love that she's having the what are your intentions with my daughter conversation with him. And she's the daughter. So why take Billy Shakespeare's Romeo plus Juliet. Honestly, that's what they should have called it. Is Billy Shakespeare's Romeo plus Juliet. Gone. Why take it, set it in the 90s? Because it's bitchin'. But was a lot of talk about making this relevant for modern audiences. Right? And I honestly think in the hands of a different director it would not have worked. Oh, it would have been super cheese ball and lame. And like, hello fellow kids. Like it would have just had that vibe everywhere. You murdered him for that? Murdered Bill Shakespeare? What? Oh. And this, it just oozes. Like this defined what being a teen in the 90s felt like. Even though my life did not resemble that in any way. I did not have a cool car. I did not walk around with guns. And none of my friends were incredible crossdressers. I wish I had a friend like Mercutio in high school. But I did not. These violent delights have violent ends. One of my favorite lines ever in the English language. Powder which as they kiss consume the sweetest honey. Steven Spielberg's favorite actor? With good reason. So was it common, these ultra short courtships, or is this, to our thesis, Shakespeare commenting on This is a problem. A lack of temperance. I think it's Shakespeare commenting on this is a problem. Yeah. Because the conversation is, wow. Like, we're vibing. We really click. You're into me, I'm into you. When can I see you again? At the altar tomorrow. Yeah. Because Juliet basically says, if your intentions are marriage, meet me tomorrow at the chapel. And if your intentions aren't marriage, then tell me and leave me be so I can get over you. I mean, this is, you know, Shania Twain's, if you're not in it for love, I'm out of here. Just really sped up. And written better. No offense, Shania. It's a good song. Everything is written worse than William Shakespeare, almost. Except for Ted Lasso. True. Yes. Here's some important questions to ask yourself and your partner before you get married. What do you want out of life? What do you want out of a marriage? What does that relationship look like? Yeah, they haven't covered that. Kids. Do you want them? How many? How do you want to raise them? What's your parenting style? Finances. Haven't talked about that. Like, how are we going to live? How are we going to survive? And are we savers? Are we spenders? Do we like to take big vacations with a small house or a big house and stay put? Like, do we value working a lot to have a big life? Or working just enough to get by and enjoying a simple life? All of these types of questions are the things you want to ask before you marry somebody. But, Jono, have you considered pretty? I have considered pretty. Sure. So have they. And again, they're young. They're inexperienced. And when we say they're dumb, it's not about IQ. We're not saying these are stupid characters. What we're really saying is they're naive. No, what we're saying is young people are dumb. Not because you're dumb, but because you haven't lived long enough to get smart yet. Smart is a function of time. Because you haven't made your stupid mistakes yet. Where you're like, I'm not doing that again. So they get married, and as so often happens, it's good for exactly one night. This man's seen some s**t. But also, it's because of the damn in-laws. Because the damn in-laws come on both sides. That is true. Like, they would be fine. That's the thing. You leave it to just Romeo and Juliet. You don't bring any of the in-laws into it. You don't have a Tybalt, and you don't have a Mercutio. And these kids make some dumb mistakes and learn and grow together. And maybe it all works out great. It might. And the reason that it might is even though they kind of rushed into everything. And by kind of, I mean definitely did. Is that Romeo and Juliet are both loving and accepting people. Right. So, what happens if a loving and accepting person realizes, Oh, here's who I thought you were. Now I'm getting to know you. Here's who you actually are. Okay. Because in both of their cases, Neither of them is actually a nightmare or a selfish punk. Like, they're both decent, loving, good people. So, I actually think even though they rushed into things, They might have made it. Is that names cursed and murdered or kinsmen? I thought thy disposition better tempered. Thy Juliet is alive. There art thou happy. Tybalt would kill thee, but thou slewest Tybalt. There art thou happy. The law that threatened death becomes thy friend and turns it to exile. There art thou happy. A pack of blessings lie upon thy back. Wherefore railest thou on thy birth to heaven and earth? Since birth and heaven and earth, all three do meet in thee at once. I love that entire exchange. How all my comfort is revived by this. In modern verbiage, count your blessings, man. Get thee that I love as was decreed. Ascend her chamber. Hence, and comfort her. But look thou, stay not till the watch be set. For then thou canst not pass to Mantua, Where thou wilt live, till we can find the time to blaze your marriage. Reconcile your friends. Beg pardon of the prince. And call thee back with twenty hundred thousand times more joy Than thou went'st forth in lamentation. Just put up with it for a little while, dude. And then, you're set. Juliet still loves you even though you murdered her cousin. Be happy. Someone tried to kill you. You killed him first. Be happy. The law could put you to death. Instead, it's just kicking you out of town. What are you complaining about? Just go live in Mantua in a weird trailer in a dusty hellscape, apparently. And then come back in a little while and you're going to be super happy. But to my point about temperance, maturity, and experience versus inexperience, the priest has the benefit of years. He has experienced enough hardship that has turned to joy or difficulty that has passed and then there is a new day to know that if Romeo just waits it out, things are going to turn up for him. They'll be fine. And not only that, he's like, I will help you get there. I will help you get there? Your lady's maid will help you get there? Yeah. Romeo's impetuousness and Juliet's lack of temperance, they're both on the same page, are causing them to make rash, hasty decisions based on the emotion of the moment. Right. Because this is adolescence. What's happening now is what truly matters. So many adolescent tragedies happen because of a lack of temperance and a lack of experience to know this moment is going to pass. And I remember when I was a teenager, like whatever's happening today or this week was all-encompassing. And now at 43, when I'm having a really hard time, I'm like, this sucks for now. Yeah. You know? Well, and looking back on the things that were just not survivable as a teen, they're a blip that I remember. Yeah. Barely. Yeah. Or in the case that they happen to be something truly monumental and big, you look at how they shaped you now. Yeah. And this is the priest giving him a warning. Just hold on. It doesn't look like your normal toxic relationship, when we call a relationship toxic, where someone is abusive or someone is cruel or someone is manipulative. They are sweet and dear and kind and affectionate with each other. And it's still toxic because of the lack of temperance, because of the emotional decision-making, because of the immaturity. It is corrosive and destructive to their lives. Well, and if I may. Yeah. I'm going to offer a little therapeutic advice. The way to overcome this is to listen to the people in your life who are experienced and who are giving you advice. Listen to Friar Father. Apostle Thwaite. Back tattoo. Apostle Thwaite. There's probably someone like that in your life. He's probably not nearly as cool. But that's okay. Listen to the people in your life who are saying, hey, just wait it out. Just give it a couple of days. Just think about it overnight. Yeah. Listen to those people. They have your best interests at heart. Usually. And they know what they're talking about. Usually. Madam, and happy time. What day is that? Mary, my child. Early next Thursday morn. The gallant, young, and noble gentlemen of Paris. So, piggybacking off of what you were saying. It's not just because someone is older and more experienced that they deserve your attention. Right? Because her parents are older and more experienced. And listening to them is probably not a great idea. It's a terrible idea. Older, more experienced, and with a proven track record of wisdom and kindness. Right. Like Pete Apostle Thwaite. Like Father Apostle Thwaite. Delivered to her our decree. These are older, but they're not wiser. She gives you thanks. And they have demonstrated. I would the fool were married to her grave. Their desire for her has nothing to do with her happiness. Honoring her choice. Will she none? Their family's reputation is about... Is she not proud? Control. Does she not count her blessed? And so the father is basically saying, ungrateful wench, because you don't want to marry who I want you to marry. But thankful that you have. Proud can I never be of what I am. Thank me not, fair kings. Not proud now. Hear me with patience. No. I am coming. Speak not, reply not. Do not answer me. Are you mad? Disobedient wretch. You are to blame, my lord. To rape her soul. You are to blame what? Get thee to church Thursday. Or never after look me in the face. When you be mine, I give you to my friend. When you be not, hang, beg, starve, die in the streets. Just do it. So you do what I say or you're not my daughter? There's a million toxic things happening in this family right now. But in the terms of being destructive to the family relationship, the parents just torched their relationship with their daughter. They're pushing her away when she most needs them. She just lost her cousin. She's secretly married. If there was ever a time for parents who were like, kind of pissed that you eloped. Kind of pissed that you married a member of this rival family. But you're our daughter and we're going to stand by you and we're going to sort this out. It's now. Or even just to the point where they're not so immediately jumping on her and like literally pummeling her. Yeah. So that she can feel comfortable saying, um, I did something awkward. I got married. Whoopsie. Yeah. Toxic? Yes. I owe you the doors to breath. So I guess we should, uh, trigger warning here, uh, based on what's going on in the story. Though it's not a spoiler warning. I feel like if you've lived on planet earth, you're aware. You know what happens at the end of Romeo and Juliet. Right. So he, of course, believes that she has died. So he takes poison. I love, it's so tragic the way it's, she wakes up happy to see him. Yeah. And then she's like, wait a second. Dateless barking. Too engrossing. How it's often staged is she's not awake yet. Right. They don't have this moment of... Romeo. Like he's dead and she wakes up and finds him. And it says Romeo. And honestly, this is, in my opinion, more affecting. Oh, it's devastating. It's here. Poison. Don't call and left no friendly drop to help me after. You know, Baz Luhrmann asks her, asks Claire Danes to take some big swings in this movie. And there's so many times it could, it might not have worked because it's just too big. And it always works. Yep. And that's why she's a movie star. Not as much as she should be though, honestly. Well, there's no limit to what her stardom should be, right? Like she's one of those. She's just so talented. So again, now we go from figuratively toxic to literally toxic. There is toxic poison at play in this scene that is corrosive and destructive. And, you know, we talk about the phrase toxic being overused and people just kind of throw it around when they say, well, that's unhealthy or I don't like it. And we counter with, no, it has to be actually destructive. But even within that definition, there's a big range because the families are classically toxic. Sure. They're destroying relationships. And they're hurting people. Violent. Yes. And cruel. Physically, emotionally, yeah. And vindictive and petty and shallow and all of these things. And then you have Romeo and Juliet who on the surface don't appear toxic because we often think of all these other things. Their toxicity comes through their innocence, ironically. Their toxicity is if they had just held on and not made decisions based on the emotion of the moment. If they had practiced temperance and patience and wait and see. But the moment he thinks she's marrying somebody else or that she's dead, he just does these great big things. And Father Lawrence is desperately trying to get Romeo just to hold on. Right. Let the dust clear. And I do this all the time in couples and family therapy. Never make big decisions when you're upset or emotional. Yeah. Don't make permanent decisions based on temporary emotions or circumstances. Sure. Yeah. People come to me like, I want to get a divorce. I can't stand it anymore. And I'm like, so here's what we need to do. We need to get to a place where the emotion of the moment has passed. And if that's still how you feel, then we can start working in that direction. Yeah. Right? So much that happens in this movie is a crime of passion. Mm-hmm. The heat of the moment against others or against self. And so Shakespeare, in my mind and I think in yours as well, is pleading temperance. Absolutely. Is pleading, stop, calm down, assess and hold on and then make your decisions. And the great tragedy is that the passions rule everybody in the story to the ruin of all. In the pantheon of our toxic or not episodes, this is the definition of toxic. Yeah. It is toxic in almost every way that a relationship can be toxic aside from the sweetness and tenderness and love. Oddly, it's toxic and beautiful. Yeah. Which is why Romeo and Juliet is a classic that has been one of the great plays for 500 years. It's why this version, Billy Shakes, Romeo Plus Juliet, Gun Symbol is a classic that is beloved. It is a great film and it's not great because it's a great template for how to live your life. Right. It is a cautionary tale. It is not a go-and-do-thou-likewise. So until next time, but soft, but light through yonder window breaks, these violent delights have violent ends. And watch movies. Shout out and thank you to our patrons who over on our Patreon get a whole side of cinematherapy that you're not seeing here on YouTube. Thank you to folks such as Kale Rosser, Alexander Peterson, Darikis, Annalisa Van, and Marat Stepanov. You know who you are. Yeah, and you know what you did. Stepanov. Yeah, so thank you and we love you.