Orlando Bloom on Growing Up With Dyslexia

Hello and welcome back to the Thriving Kids podcast. We have a very special guest this week, Orlando Bloom. Hey. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. You've known our present founder, Hal Koplowitz, for a little bit of time. Yes. How did the two of you first meet and start talking about mental health and advocacy and things like that? Yeah, we met, I think it must have been around 2006 or was it around then? I mean, 2006, I was but a psychologist in training at that time. We met many years ago. We had a sort of fireside chat about my growing up with dyslexia and what that meant to me and how that had impacted my education and my life and my work. And we just have kept in touch over the years. And I mean, he's a wonderful, as you know, wonderful human, wonderful man, father, and a great advocate for mental health and for children with learning disabilities and stuff. And obviously, the work that the Child Mind Institute is doing is sort of massively important. So it was one of those. I mean, I struggled with focus and concentration in school. I moved schools a couple of times, I remember, as a young boy. And eventually, I got to a school that felt like a good fit. And it wasn't really anything that was discussed or talked about, learning disabilities, dyslexia. It was a very kind of new kind of thing. Were you moving schools because of challenges you were having at those schools? Just because your family was moving to different places or? Because I suppose they were like overly academic, the first school I left, and they didn't really have a desire or the means or the ability to support, you know, my process in class. And I was probably just sort of languishing a little. So I had a, my mum kind of, you know, we went and had some of the tests that were doable at the time. And, you know, I had a really high IQ, which was kind of unusual, but unusually high. Congratulations, by the way. Well, thanks. It's really good. Yeah. Socially, and I was very good and confident. I think it was just when it came to focus and concentration and absorbing text, and or, you know, reading took a lot longer, reading and absorbing things was more challenging and writing. I actually, so I actually studied very hard. I had a great teacher who I would spend, I would spend evenings, I would go to see this teacher who was local to my school. And she taught me to write joined up cursive, I guess that's what you call it. I just learned a new way of referring to it, but that works. Yeah, like joined up writing, but you know, cursive writing. Also something my own nine and six year old are no longer learning. So it's just like, to hear about the learning of joined up writing is like, now it really feels like. It was very good for like, eye hand coordination, I think, in terms of absorbing. I actually use that technique today when I'm learning dialogue. For example, I'll, I'll, I'll write my dialogue out. I'll read a bunch and read the script many, many times, but I'll also just write my dialogue out. And it's something that helps me to kind of absorb and really take the meaning and, and, and, and understand what I'm saying or find the naturalness to it. But it was, yeah, it was, it was one of those things that, that was very helpful, actually, in the end, because, because it was, it was very challenging as a young boy to feel that, that there was something wrong. And, you know, I had some teachers who were compassionate, empathetic, and some who just weren't at all. And, you know, I never felt stupid. I never felt like I didn't understand, but I definitely struggled with time. Time management, time to, like, for homework or time in exams or, you know, because your mind can sort of play tricks, or at least when you're, when you have, like, a dyslexic situation or, I mean, I think perhaps ADD might have been something that we weren't, weren't talking about then. As a clinical psychologist, I wasn't going to assign any diagnoses that you were not assigning to yourself in this, but yes. I'm sure, like, you know, I was very kind of active and physical and, and, you know, I even find today I'm very physical. It's important for me to get into my body at the beginning of a day, and then my mind sort of takes, takes precedent and moves from that space in, with much more clarity. Yeah. So I think, you know, I never took medication growing up. I never, that wasn't really, I suppose, in the UK, it was not something that was on offer or, or really suggested. I give myself, you know, I think there's, there was some, you know, benefit to that in the sense that I worked really hard, a lot of extra classes, and I had the benefit of, you know, having parents who, you know, supported that and a school that, you know, allowed for that. I didn't ever get extra time in exams or anything like that, that I remember, but, but it definitely, you know, in a way, I think all of these challenges that we have in our youth are kind of the opportunities for our growth. And they're the, they're the things that kind of like, if it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger kind of thing. And it sort of gives you like a grit and a determination and a focus that maybe, you know, I think was very helpful and beneficial in some ways is certainly going into a career as an actor where, you know, most of the time you're out of work or wanting to be in work. And, you know, of course I've had an amazing career and I've worked a lot and I, and I, and I work a lot, but it's, but it definitely kind of built a strength of character, I would say that I still kind of feel the benefit of. So I don't want to assume the strength of character was just innate because this is the thing where I'm, when I'm sitting here thinking about the patients that I have who struggled either with attention or with reading or things like that, and kind of what they see, what I'm indexing as a factors that I think contributed to your resilience, or at least what I'm trying to think about, whether they're internal or external. I mean, first, it sounds like you had some level of supportive family that weren't telling you, we don't think you're trying hard enough or we don't understand why you won't go to better effort or finish this quicker. Like at some level, it seems like you're saying there was an understanding that this wasn't an effort problem. I think that that was the benefit of being diagnosed with dyslexia and then having done the work around that. So I think that that was something that the school that I ended up at could appreciate. And at that time, when we look at the kind of accommodations that we might try to get for a kid today, we might try to get adapted assignments, briefer reading, they might have the option to listen to the reading and an auditory recording. That's the whole thing. It's like they might be given an outline of the different things that are in the class so they don't have to fully take notes and try to engage in that processing the entire way. And this is for attention or for learning issues. What I find amazing about people of a slightly older generation, you know, still very young and youthful, is just that you seem to have developed a lot of the workarounds that became the evidence-based interventions of the following generation. So you focused on a kind of written process for yourself. Yes, in my own way. And as you talk about, that was going to be one of my questions as well, is that you ended up going to profession. How did you discover a passion for acting in the midst of challenges with reading and memorizing things? You know, there was nowhere I was more focused than when I was on stage as a kid. And I did all of the school kind of plays and I did amateur dramatics and so on. And I think that was because I felt so present when I was on stage. That was partly due to fear, stage fright, especially at an early age. And also, you know, having the text and learning the text gave me a boundary, gave me a, you know, a frame of reference as it were. And, you know, I mean, for all of my auditions, for example, I was off book. So I think that probably gave me an advantage as well, because in a way I'd, you know, I think some actors, I would encourage anyone who wanted to be an actor to learn everything before they go into either a play or an audition or, you know, anything, because it means you're more natural and you flow with it and your brain thinks in different ways. So I think that was in some ways an advantage as well, because, you know, I was always overly prepared so that I felt good about what I was doing. And so that was in a weird way, I think I consider that a benefit. I mean, I look at all of the things that, you know, the challenges in my life as the opportunities and I kind of am a glass half full kind of a guy, you know, I sort of go like, well, you know, it's a struggle, right? Everything's a bit of a struggle in life. I, you know, I mean, I am very aware, I have a 14 year old son, actually he doesn't seem to have any of the learning disabilities that I have, which is interesting. And he's a good student and he studies hard. My daughter's five, so that's to be seen. But, you know, there's a lot more support around children, you know, certainly in the great schools that I'm fortunate enough to be able to enroll my children in. But I am aware that there is, of course, a lot of difficulty for people and some people, you know, even in my son's class, there are friends of his who really struggle with ADHD and or really struggle with dyslexia. And then they do have the support now, I think, whether it's medication or whether it's, you know, learning in ways that support them. So that's definitely a benefit. You know, I mean, we're entering a new age with super intelligence, right? My daughter's not going to know a world without super intelligence. So it's going to be very interesting to see how AI and, you know, there's many different forms of it now, right, to help with writing and studying, how that's going to impact, you know, the development of a child's brain, you know. Well, it's one of those things where I frequently find myself speaking with patients, this relates to both of our children's generation, about the notion that, you know, some teachers may view AI as cheating, for example. And when I look at patients who have real difficulty with reading or with attention, it is so easy to get AI to do a chapter-by-chapter summary of the book that you've got to read, just so you know conceptually and can keep up with the themes in an English discussion. And don't have to be up till 11 o'clock at night. And on one level, I want kids to still read these great works of literature, but at the same time, to be able to get a chapter-by-chapter detailed summary of Jane Eyre with a thematic analysis that allows you to participate in English sometimes. When you're otherwise overwhelmed, like I look at these things as kind of a balance. Like I want kids to still learn how to do what you did because the grit that you display. So I'm picturing you as a young kid sitting there with a huge homework assignment saying, I'm just going to park my butt in a chair for as long as I need to get this done, knowing that it's going to take me longer than some of my friends. But either I want to be off book for this audition or I want to be done with this reading for class. That's what I mean about how you sound like you have some internal characteristics that we might have to coach some other adults in kids' villages to help them to engender. You know? It's definitely determination and grit and having a bit of a dream and having something like a goal to shoot for, right? You know, I always wanted to be an actor. Yeah. I always wanted to, I dreamed of being an actor and having, you know, some of the opportunities that I've lived are just like beyond my dreams. Yeah. Was this because of particular shows or movies? Because I can guarantee there's some listeners who also want to be an actor by seeing you. But what did you see that inspired you? I mean, like, you know, Indiana Jones. And like growing up, it was like big, you know, like there was, you know, Supermans. There was, there were all kinds of sort of like, you know, movies growing up and television that kind of inspired my mind. And then, you know, I had a cousin who was older who would, you know, educate me on some of the classics and, you know, watch, you know, Paul Newman doing some of the amazing work he did. And, you know, somebody up there likes me or The Hustler or, you know, and Paul Newman was always a really great kind of hero in my mind. Daniel Day-Lewis, who, you know, as I was coming up was just, you know, living his, living and breathing his instrument was just so remarkable. And I mean, I suppose all of those things influenced my thinking and dream. And I think that the determination and the desire and the dream was so strong that like, I mean, I was at boarding school at 11 and I moved to London on my own at 16 and I lived and self sort of, you know, which is kind of wild when you think 16 now, right? Yeah, I'm just picturing my nine-year-old informing me that he's so passionate about something he might need to go live alone at 16. Well, I mean, it was like my parents lived outside of London. I went to a school where I could study, you know, I did photography, sculpture and theatre studies in my A-levels, which were, you know, I was very good. I could have been a sculptor. I was really good. I could have been a photographer. I was also very good at that. And actually, you know, in terms of my exam results, the theatre results, because of the written part, it weren't necessarily as good, but I always felt I was more present and connected and happier on stage and performing. So, you know, and that was my dream and I focused and drove for it. And, you know, it's an unusual thing, isn't it? It's like, how does life work for you? You know, but I think if you're a young person today and you're struggling with a learning disability or, you know, you have, you know, challenges with your mental health, you come back to the basics, right? And it's always like discipline, you know, even though I was living alone in London and there were, you know, and maybe I had ADHD, but I was still very self-disciplined and focused, especially at that time. And then there was a culmination of just being at the right place at the right time. And I would say probably, you know, partly, I mean, Peter Jackson was looking for a young unknown actor to play an elf in Lord of the Rings. And I'd initially auditioned for Faramir because my look had been one that would maybe suggest that I would be good for that. But then they thought outside the box, put me in a blonde wig and blue eyes and, you know, saw my kind of inner quality and it led to, you know, this remarkable opportunity that, you know, was really the launch of my career. You know, I'd studied at drama school and I had an agent prior to going into drama school from having worked with the National Youth Theatre and having done a play and somebody saw me. And then when I was at drama school, I was, you know, I left every now and again for like important auditions that were happening, auditions that they felt like I should have the experience of or go for. And, you know, I remember meeting or going for an audition for Moulin Rouge at one point when they were going to do Unknowns and so on. I kind of had a handful of, you know, screen tests and things for that. Obviously they then went with like famous people like Ewan McGregor and Nicole Kidman. But, you know, that was- I'm hearing the music in my head at the moment. Yeah, that was, it was exciting to kind of see that I was getting some traction in some of these meetings and auditions. And so when, and actually being at drama school was like a safety net because in a way, like I was so focused on, it was sort of like being in theatre rep, you know, you were always learning lines, always putting on some kind of a production or, you know. And so I would pop out, get very focused, do what I had to do for the audition and then go back and think, okay, well, I'm not going to think about that because I've got all this to think about. And in a way, even that, you know, you're not overly focused, you're not, your mind is like allowing you because I think, you know, when we talk about mental health, part of it is that we're our own best friend and our own worst enemy, right? Absolutely. As it comes to the way that we think and what we kind of allow ourselves and our minds to kind of go into. And of course today, with all the distractions of social media and the comparison and the comparing and the contrasting and the competing, it's a lot, you know? I mean, it's a lot for young people. I don't know. You know, I think social media is, it's an unusual thing that we're all like a guinea pig for in some ways, right? It's like- Well, we can delve into social media in a second, but what I just find myself in listening to the narratives you have here is, first of all, I'm being transported between different versions of myself at different points in my life. Yeah. In the sense that as a clinician, what I'm listening to, and this is a frequent thing that comes up for me as a specialist in ADHD and learning issues, is that a lot of times we get asked, and you know, we, years ago, folks came to CMI and said, we want to create a television show about someone with ADHD as their superpower. And we said, we think that might not necessarily be what you mean. Like we could do a superhero with ADHD, I don't know that we want to frame it as we know that that diagnosis leads to superpowers. They said, we want to think about hyper-focus and all kinds of things. And we, what we see a lot of the time with dialogue around ADHD is that people will kind of uplift folks who have either learning differences or ADHD who've been really successful. And they'll say, look, could there be something about this that leads to success? And my answer is, I tend to connect the dots by people who were good at therapizing themselves or who got therapeutic support when they're in the current generation. What I hear you doing to yourself is you're a darn good internal self-therapist. Like the way that I'm looking at your trajectory and your career is that even with these things, one of the things we tell people who are struggling with learning or people struggling with attention as they're growing up is we'll engage in a technique called motivational interviewing. We'll say, look, let's figure out what your passion is. Then let's connect the dots between your passion and where you are. And let's then simplify your life down to a few concrete actions that will make it so you don't get in the way. Nothing gets in the way of you getting to that point. Now, granted, this can sometimes be to the detriment of certain family relationships because maybe we're not focusing as much on picking up our towels, our clothes, and being tidy around the house because the mundane tends to be a real challenge for a lot of folks. But it will be something where when you describe how you shrunk your life down to a kind of single lens and said, this is what I want. What I mean by transporting myself to different selves is that for many of us who might watch Peter Jackson's casting decisions in Lord of the Rings, for those of us who are fans, we might think there was really no other alternative. That was one of the more perfect casting decisions that one could make. But to hear your internal process of how you singularly focused in that kind of way, I think most people watching at that time would have just thought you were to it born. That was it. Almost like the lines must have come to you as if man up from heaven and like that kind of stuff. Not at all, yeah. But to hear the way that you focused yourself in, being honest with yourself about what challenges you had, figuring out where your motivational kind of true north was, and then kind of doing a few things all at a level that were above whatever any other human might be and undeterred. Because I'm also thinking like, what kind of things did you sculpt if you were going to maybe be a sculptor? So interesting, yeah. I would say a couple of things. Focus. I had a Buddhist practice that I was introduced to when I was 16. Having been confirmed in the Cathedral of Canterbury by the Archbishop of Canterbury to London. And I didn't find a community or a church, but I did when I was studying for my A-levels. I found out that I had a 15-hour still life drawing exam, a 15-hour oil painting exam to go with my 15-hour sculpture exam. And I would always sit in front of a piece of clay or marble or wood and just create. And it would be like, wow. And my teacher would be like, wow, but Orlando, you need to have drawings to back this up. And you're also going to have these big exams. And I had given up painting and drawing because I wasn't encouraged in the right way when I was a young boy. And so I actually went to meet this young artist who set me up with an easel and said, I want you to do this. And I'd hear him in the other room chanting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, which is the title of the Lotus Sutra. It means I bring myself in tune with the rhythm of the universe, but it's very centering and very grounding. And it kind of supported me and gave me a focus almost, a way to focus. So I would literally be drawing like a lemon and a whale bone or something and a grapefruit. And I'd go to the bathroom or chant, come back and I'd just carry on. I actually got like the highest grade in the country for that, which was crazy because they literally said, we'd like to keep your work. So in a way, you're right. I had the determination and the focus. I had a spiritual practice in the form of Buddhism, which I think is a great philosophy to life. I also, at a young age, because of my upbringing, my mother did encourage a sort of therapy of sorts. I spoke to a counselor at a young age, like when I was four, because of my parental upbringing, which was quite complicated. And she said to my mother, apparently, that I was very emotionally in tune with my interior life. At four? Yeah, at four. And in a way, I think that, so my process of self-understanding and self-learning led me and helped me when it came to being focused and working. I think it is important that children get to talk about their thoughts and their feelings and what things mean to them so they do understand their interior life and the complexities of that and certainly as it pertains to mental health and so on. But I was singularly focused for all sorts of reasons. And I think part of it was a desire to get out of my hometown and to be free from the bounds of my learning disabilities or even just the life that it might have been had I not had the opportunities and the work ethic to kind of get to where I got to at an early age. But even that part of your story tells us something about how important it could be for anybody listening right now. Now granted, there are not terribly many four-year-olds. Your daughter could be different, who knows, who can come into a therapy session and truly demonstrate a deep level of emotional insight. That is likely a rare piece of feedback from a therapist. Sure. But at the same time, there's such a low level of stigma in that aspect of your story in saying, I could be willing to see a counselor even in the preschool ages to normalize this and to say that we can all use a little bit of support. We could all use a little bit of insight into our lives and introspection in some ways. And just, if you're willing to talk about it, what do you think are the main kind of transformational factors that have come from starting a Buddhist practice in your teens? I realize that might be hard to encapsulate. No, it's a good question. Well, the reason I ask it is just because so much of third wave mental health now is focused on being kind of honoring the cultural basis of these principles while bringing mindfulness meditation and kind of a greater sense of presence and focus through some of these traditions into psychology and saying, how can we operationalize this in a way that helps kids today? Perhaps, you know, independent of joining a faith community, for example. Yeah, I think for me, when I was chanting in the mornings, which I did every morning and evening, it sort of quietened the mind, focused the mind. And my faith in what I was doing gave me a confidence. My faith in the practice and in the philosophy gave me a confidence and self-belief. And, you know, yes, communication is essential. And being able to talk about your feelings and being able to talk about. And I think in a way, you know, it's interesting you were talking about the superpower. And in some ways, you know, you don't want to frame it like that. But I do think that there is a way in which people with either ADHD and or dyslexia think through a problem, which is very different to the way, you know, it's sort of my mind goes here, there and everywhere. Now, if I allow that to happen, then when I land somewhere that's interesting and I can recognize that it might be and I can follow that path, then that's really helpful. Now, when it comes to being an actor, your imagination is key. And there are things that you can imprint when you're learning dialogue or when you're thinking about a script that then inform the performance in ways that, you know, wouldn't otherwise. Now, maybe that's overcomplicated or maybe it's a great thing to happen. And I think the combination of chanting Nam-myoho-renge-kyo, which was something that really gave me, I think, as a philosophy and the things that I would read about my mentor who wrote very bite-sized pieces of wisdom, because it's really about having the wisdom in life, you know, the courage and the compassion to do the right thing, but for self first, right, as well. I think it's often really, you know, when you struggle with a mental health issue or learning disability, you can be really hard on yourself. And when you're hard on yourself, then you can be hard on other people. Now, being hard on yourself to some degree can be helpful because it motivates you forward and you try harder, but then it can become something that gets in the way. So it's like, it is all a balance. And finding, you know, I mean, TM is another thing that I have done and do, but it's more like yoga for the mind in my mind. For those listening, this is transcendental meditation. Transcendental meditation. For those Googling. Yeah, that basically just quietens my mind. And it's like, you know, I did a quick three day course and I got like a, you get like a word and it just like quietens the mind. My Buddhist practice is about taking action in life and my eyes are open. I'm not, my eyes aren't closed, but I'm really focused. And, you know, I think it's sort of like an amalgamation, but all of the things that kind of I came around to through my practice and through my learning disability, difficulties rather, I think of, I think in some ways there is a bit of a superpower to it because of what it did, you know, because of how it made me, it made me focus and work, which, you know, without medication, by the way, without any of that sort of support. So, you know, I think it depends on the levels as well, right? Each person is individual. I think the other thing is you're sort of educating or you're helping or healing the whole child, right? So it is sleep, food, physical education, physical, you know, movement, moving your body. I mean, you know, for some people, if they don't move their body, then they're going to be impossible in class. You know, it could be like, listen, you know, they just don't learn like that. So how do you, how do you help educate whilst, you know, do they need to go on a run before they go to school? Do they need to swim or do something that gets them in their body before they sit down to get in their mind? Or is it a practice of, you know, quietening through one form or another? And it's unique to each person. That's the truth, right? And I know some parents really struggle because their children are really struggling with learning difficulties. But there is, I think, something excellent and there is something each, I think every child has an area of excellence and it's really determining what that is. And if you're a parent who is aware and observant and has the time and the desire, then, you know, you sort of study your child to understand what it is. Like my daughter is really physical. She's super, she was like climbing stairs when she was two. She was like, you know, literally just super physical. And she's constantly in motion. You know, she's constantly moving. And I think, you know, in school, I think they understand that a little bit. And then she's, you know, she seems to be doing great and we've picked a great school for that. But it is, it is, it is, I think, the responsibility of us as parents and adults to really understand what will work for each child. Look, I think this is a great place to kind of bring us in for a landing because what I hear that I think is so hopeful to many parents who might be listening to this, and kids, because I'm guessing we'll also get some, you know, kids listening to kind of your experiences, is just the way that you think about neurodiversity in the sense that you're, you're kind of espousing a perspective that at once says we need to provide support for these kids where they need it. And then we also need to be on the lookout for these moments where the way that they think, the fact that they are constructed this way could lead to great beauty and great creativity in the world. And so not just thinking this was a kid that we need to make sure stops moving or that we run them before school, but at the same time, like let's think about what that kind of movement, what that kind of thing leads to in terms of their insights in life. Not to mention that hearing about your experience in meditation, I think of so many patients where what I'm trying to do for them as they get older is separate the narrative that they take on that others give them from the narrative they want to self-compassionately build about themselves. And so if we think about people who can reflect in that way, they can separate themselves from that, not be driven by that, not be thinking about everything they've got to do at other people's behest. But again, perhaps like as a theme of this entire conversation, get to like the narrow tunnel they want to leave themselves down. Yeah, that's right. And I think, I would say as well, that like, I think a big part of it is diet as well, by the way, you know? It's like, I think, I mean, I do think that like we are, you know, I think that there's a lot of studies now, right? About the gut and the brain and the way that the two things communicate with one another. And you feel things immediately in your gut before you feel it anywhere else. And, you know, I think, you know, good food, you know, I try to limit the sugar intake. It's so difficult for kids because I do find that even for myself, you know, like I avoid any kind of anything sugary and stuff when I'm working as best possible because it really can sort of spiral my mind a little bit. You know what I mean? Well, I think what we're getting back to, and this relates to kind of what you'd said, is that for most of us as therapists, if people come into the office and we say- Right, absolutely. But we say like, what are we doing about sleep? How are we making sure that we're eating in a way that might feed our brain and feed our body? And how do we make sure that we're moving our body? Because if we're not doing those things, building a pyramid of the ways that our thoughts, feelings, and behaviours interact on top of it may not be that successful. And we're still looking at kind of feeding that basic hierarchy of needs. I always think about feeding my brain. I go, I'm just eating for my brain. Well, and I also think about just like what we see across schools where, you know, I think the common refrain within ADHD circles and within kind of circles where we see kids with learning challenges in schools is that food is not necessarily a treatment for this. But at the same time, thinking about food judiciously makes it more likely that your child can be focused in school, can have the energy that they need in the sense that what we're coming to, I think, as a culture is this notion that, yeah, if your kid starts off with a really high sugar, low kind of nutrients that they might need breakfast, the fact that they have a sugar crash mid-morning, they're experiencing emotional dysregulation, they're not feeling they can focus in school is not necessarily going to give the best thing. This isn't to say we can't balance sugar. That's right. It's just saying that- Everything is balanced. We've kind of gone to that place. Everything is balanced. I just, you know, I just did a movie which I'm really proud of. I produced, it's called The Cut. And it's a movie about a box who comes out of retirement to have one last shot at the title. It's really, it really looks at, you know, body dysmorphia, like anorexia almost. And for the athlete and a mental health story because of his like corrupted childhood that leads to the way that he thinks and looks at the world. And I mean, there's, you know, a myriad of reasons why athletes like boxers or fighters do what they do. And usually you can go back and see their patterns and their past as a good example of why. But I think that, you know, it was very interesting for me to go in on that. And I lost, like I went from, I'm 185 pounds. I went to 152 pounds and it was a really big thing to do. And the process of all of that really was, it was insane what it did to my mind. Like as I teared the food down and as I kind of, you know, was getting down to a low weight that I needed for the character to be in. It was really revealing how much my mind was affected by the nutrients or lack of. And the lack of sleep because I was hungry and not sleeping enough and all of these things. So as an experiment on myself, it was fascinating. Like I really know that if I don't get a good night's sleep and if I don't eat a good meal and if I don't move my body, then my day is not going to be as good as the days that they will be. If I, you know, and if I don't chant or if I don't take time for myself. And I think that those touchstones that are so basic and rudimental can be, you know, rudimentary are so helpful for parents as well. You know, it's really, you know, it's a really key thing. Also, just to say it, how does that feel? I'm worried about you and that experience. It was a lot. And what was going on? It was a lot. I mean. Yeah, it was a lot. Do we have mental health practitioners on set when people are engaging? I mean, honestly, I had a nutritionist who was guiding me through all of that. Yeah. But I had no, I was completely sideswiped. Yeah. I wouldn't want you to be alone in that experience. Yeah. You're sitting up there at two o'clock in the morning with hallucinations and hunger. I did have friends and a support team in there anyway. So, yeah. And my blood was checked for, you know, to make sure that, you know, everything was good. Because you were doing this while filming, right? Yeah. So we actually started the movie at my lightest weight. And. Oh, okay. In order that, because I had no brain power. Right. And so I'd lie down between takes and then come on and do what I needed to do. And then I'd like, and then we shot in reverse chronological order because I actually had to like build the calories as I was going through. And it was really just about like adding loads of stuff to my diet and a lot of things that I wouldn't. At that point, you're eating like the rock. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and, you know, but it was, I mean, it, you know, I think it played havoc on my hormones and everything else, but I'm really proud of the role, pretty proud of the movie. You know, it's, it's something that like, I feel, you know, I wanted to do something like a big physical transformation and I got to do it in that, that opportunity. And it really did come down to mental health, actually, at the end of the day, in terms of what the character's living through, what the character's experience is. And that there was a, there was a truth that came through that process because of what I was living. Cause I was really living the character's experience. I mean, in completely kind of inducing the hell that that character might have experienced in, in their lives. And as somebody who idolized Paul Newman and Harrison Ford and Daniel Day-Lewis, I mean, this sounds like a kind of devotion that Daniel Day-Lewis might be proud of, just in terms of what you were devoting to the role. Yeah. I'm just thinking about the method acting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, in many ways it was, it was definitely a commitment and I think I'm always committed, you know, like, I mean, I was the first guy out there in New Zealand when I did Lord of the Rings and like a lot of the support that was given to me was physical. Yeah. I mean, there was, there was, there was the, I was sleeping great. The food was, was provided cause I was, I was working and, and, and the physical was provided in the form of like, you know, archery training, horseback riding, all of these different things. And even, you know, like gym training and stuff, which was, I'd never really done that much of until I went out there. And that was, you know, so that was like an amazing kind of education in itself. You know, that I hadn't kind of thought about that led to like having the focus for that kind of a thing. So these roles that have deepened your appreciation for wellness overall, I'm just now reflecting on how many different scenes you had running across New Zealand wilderness as well. So you needed to be in kind of tip top shape. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. I mean, I was young enough as well, but yeah, for sure. It was like, it was, it was definitely like, and it was commitment, you know, I think, I think we all, you know, certainly on a movie like that and we all sort of felt the weight of responsibility of these remarkable books that J.R. Dalton had written and the fans that loved the books and the characters. And I, and I knew that Legolas was a character that I loved and knew there were, must be so many other, you know, young people and adult, anyone who, so I, you know, I think, you know, you take that, you take that on and shoot for something, but yeah, support for young people in this day and age, you know, and, and, and in schools, in, in all these areas, I think is, it's, it's the key for success, right? And, and a few, yeah, a few pointers, like what are the things, the touchstones? I mean, what I'm taking away is the, the, you know, takeaways from this conversation is just that, you know, as, as we go through, and I'm hoping that all of our listeners have reached the end of this and are, you know, really staying with us for insights into what it was like to film your newest film and all these kinds of different things. That's on the cut, by the way, the cut's on Paramount Plus. Yeah, yeah, there you go, exactly, right. We'll, we'll absolutely, you know, I have no doubt that we're going to be sending people from the end of the podcast directly to Paramount Plus, but no, it's, it's, it's more that like, you know, especially as I look for these moments where someone with your level of platform can speak to kids and parents about the notion of getting support from an early age, looking for those people in their village who can support them. Also the notion that it's not just diagnosis, it's also about the cultivation of these personality traits within yourself that can allow you to kind of engage in the type of life trajectory that you've had, that it isn't just a single thing or having a single type of support, but really this emotional insight that you've demonstrated for, and then continue to iterate throughout, you know, your childhood and adulthood. There's, there's so much to take from this as stories of different things I think people can then focus on, in addition to our late breaking part of the podcast, talking about basic wellness habits. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean, I think it's, you know, it's, it's a daily challenge, isn't it? You know what I mean? For everyone, I think. And, and that's, and it's, and it's a great daily opportunity, right? To win the day, win the mind, win the day. The battle takes place up here every day. Absolutely. You know, you win that, you win the day. And what I love is, is when people see stories of great success that then come back to the notion that it's about putting one foot in front of the other on the absolute local level of that particular day. And the way that like, now all of us can picture the ways you might start and end your day, the ways you might focus yourself. These are, you know, beautiful images for people to emulate here. So, Linda Bloom, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining us on the Thriving Kids podcast. I'm sure it'll be the major thing, promoting the cut as part of your press tour. Like this is, this is going to be what people go back to. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I reference it because it was, it's a real mental health play. And I think that that's definitely, you know, the epidemic that society's dealing with today, isn't it? You know, and that you guys are on the forefront of. And the more roles that kind of surface these different perspectives and where we can help people to understand more of the struggles that people go through the better. So yeah, I'm just, we're just making sure that people didn't see it the first time around. They're seeing it on Paramount Plus. With that, we'll be looking for sponsorship from Paramount Plus at some point for this podcast. But again, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Bye.