'Murder in the Motor City' with B.R. Bates

Now, as many of you know, I love horror, I love thriller, I love true crime, I like all the gory, you know, things that's going on in the literary world. And so now I am joined by one of the best to do it is VR Bates. VR, how are you? Hi there, Sydney, good to meet you today. Thank you so much for coming in. So you have a very interesting background because you're a journalist, but then you're also an author and you've kind of taken a deep dive into serial killers, which is what I one of my specialties of what I love. So tell us a little bit about who you are and your journey into taking this road into serial killer. Well, I am a longtime writer. I've been writing all my life since I was a little kid. Actually, I've written a little bit of everything. I've written short stories. I had a poetry phase when I was a teenager. I wrote sci fi when I was in college and then graduated to some chick lit, I guess, in the 90s. I wrote a couple of novels. And then a lot of my career I have concentrated on pop culture, classic TV shows that I love I write about. But most recently, the past five or 10 years or so, I've been concentrating on true crime because I have a very big interest in true crime. I love the TV documentaries that they have on the different cases, especially if there's ever a case for covering in Michigan. I, I really watch that with a lot of interest. And so I decided to dig into a couple Detroit criminal cases myself for these projects. And I know one of your first ones was the baby Dow serial killer. And a couple of these I had never heard of because usually when it comes to like Netflix shows or anything, they're usually based in California or in any other parts of the world. So it's very rare when you hear about them right here in our area. So tell us a little bit about this one. Yeah, he is a little lesser known. He's not a Dahmer or a Ted Bundy or anything like that. But if you've been around Detroit for a while, you probably will remember this case. He was arrested in April 2000. He was known to have killed five people in Detroit. He also assaulted five people who survived, which is kind of an unusual ratio for a serial killer. And so when he was arrested, though, there's probably a couple of things that people remember from this case. About two days before he was arrested, there were three women who were discovered at a set of railroad tracks over at Military and John Cronk in southwest Detroit. And so that made big news. Everybody was talking about it. Police knew that there was a serial killer. And it was only a couple of days later that he was apprehended. But then the other thing that people tend to remember about this case is that when he was arrested in April 2000, he started making confessions to what he claimed were other murders he committed around the world. When he traveled with the Navy, he was aboard the USS Nimitz. And he claimed to kill other people in different ports that he was in, like Hong Kong and Singapore and Hawaii, Washington State, a bunch of different places. So he could have killed as many as 20 people altogether, 15 to 20 people, if we believe his confessions. So that is an interesting aspect of the case. And actually, this case has inspired the storylines of a couple fiction TV series as well, like a couple crime dramas on TV have adopted the scenario of the Navy man that kills people in different ports that he visits. So it's an interesting case. Now, for stories like this, how long does it typically take when it comes to looking into the research and kind of getting all the stories like your timeline set up before you actually get into writing the story? Yeah, I gather information for probably a couple years, you have to complete FOIA requests, and those take time. And so that's one of the first things that I do is complete FOIA requests for police records for autopsy reports for anything, any kind of paperwork you can think of that would be associated with the case. And then trying to contact people who were involved with the case that takes a lot of time to sometimes you can find someone online and you put out a message to them and you have to give it a while. It has to percolate a little bit is how I put it because you don't always get replies right away. Sometimes I think people have to think about it and I talk to law enforcement, I try to reach out to family members of the victims because I think that's very important that they have their voice that they can speak for the loved one that they have an opportunity anyways. I'm not going to worry about it if they don't feel comfortable doing it because I totally understand that. But it's so much more valuable if I can get their perspective on the victim that they lost in this. So yeah, I try to put out contacts. I would say it probably takes a couple years to get everything together before I really start writing in earnest. Yeah and then your next one is the Crack City Strangler which is book two within the Motor City series here. So tell us a little bit about this one. This case is Benjamin Atkins and he hunted women earlier a few years before Armstrong. He hunted on Woodward Avenue and that's what a lot of people remember about this case where it's Armstrong concentrated on Michigan Avenue in Detroit. So in 1991 and 1992 Benjamin Atkins was known to have killed 11 women along Woodward Ave in Detroit and Highland Park and so that is a case that people tend to remember at the time when he was being the case was being investigated before he was apprehended and identified and everyone knew that there was a serial killer haunting Woodward Avenue. There was a great degree of fear you know so you can just imagine what that was like and that was one that made a little bit of national news at the time too and I think people remember. Yeah and I love how you're bringing like I say you know attention to these stories that many may not have heard including myself and it kind of shines the light you know on the different aspects when it comes to serial killers you know it's not just in popular cities you know like LA and New York like we have them right here in our backyard and back at home and I think it's very important to tell these stories just because you never know if something happens again or you know what to be on the lookout for and so it's also sharing that history and also telling the stories of people that may have been forgotten so I'm pretty sure like the families are you know even if they don't want to talk about it they're very appreciative that you're bringing light to the situation especially if anyone didn't know about it and I love these stories you know because it's just it makes you think like what was their thought process or what happened to them in their lifetime that would make them take this route into becoming a serial killer and taking other people's lives and so has there been a case or anything throughout your journey that's really stuck with you like digging deep into like these dark worlds? Both of these cases are very interesting from the psychological first because that is the million dollar question is why do they cross that line when we don't choose to do that ourselves what makes them what cooked them as a serial killer is it nature is it nurture and I think for both of these men I think if you read through the books I leave it up to the reader to make up their own mind I think there's all kinds of things to consider in the background of both of these men even more so for Atkins because Atkins had a very troubled upbringing and there's a lot to dig into there psychologically so I think both of these cases really rattled my brain a lot in trying to figure it out for myself and had an effect but you know it's the unsolved cases that also interest me and we have a couple pretty well known unsolved cases in Detroit too that those tend to stick with you as well. Now is there going to be book three in this Motor City series? You know I would love to do another one I've actually been back in my pop culture world writing about tv shows for the past year or so but I don't know I may get back into this again I really enjoyed the research there were ups and downs about it it is it is not for everyone it's not for the faint of heart these are very ugly details and so there's that to consider I kind of enjoyed my light-hearted world again for a minute but I don't know I would enjoy doing a third we'll see how things go. But it's nice when you kind of take a break like you say you're back in the pop culture world and so now you're kind of like okay I've cleansed my palate a little bit and that kind of helps your mental so now if you write book three you'll be ready to just like dive deep into it so VRBapes thank you so much for taking the time to come and chat with me fellow book lovers and inform us on you know the the dark side of history when it comes to to the city and I look forward to your next work and then having you back so we could chat about that. Awesome thank you so much for the opportunity.