The DOJ is Silencing Honest Doctors

Imagine you're a doctor and you've spent your whole life trying to save people. And during COVID you did exactly that. You built the largest COVID testing site in your state because you thought that was what you were supposed to do. You helped bring a treatment to your community that cured people in sometimes 15 minutes or less. Governors gave you awards. The media had you on every week. But then you started asking questions. Why is this life-saving treatment suddenly disappearing? Why are red states getting cut off while blue states keep getting supplies? And four months after you went on the national television and said that people are going to die because of these decisions, the federal government indicted you. Not for hurting anyone, but for picking the wrong billing code on five patient charts out of over 100,000 people that you treated. And now you're facing up to 50 years in prison. That's not a movie. That's a true story. And it happened to my guest today. So who is this person? His name is Dr. Ron Elfenbein. He's an emergency room physician trained at Johns Hopkins. And during COVID, he built a testing and treatment operation that grew from six employees to over 300 just over a year. He was on Fox, CBS, NBC, even Saudi Arabian News talking about a treatment called monoclonal antibodies, something that President Trump received himself when he had COVID. So Dr. Ron watched that treatment work with his own eyes again and again. And when he saw the government under Biden pull it away and push something else instead, he spoke up. But that's when everything changed. This isn't about just one doctor. This is about what happens when you tell the truth in this country today. Dr. Ron isn't the only one. If it can happen to a doctor with awards from both political parties, a doctor who saved hundreds of lives during the worst public health crisis of our lifetime, it can happen to any of us. Welcome to Man in America, a voice of reason in a world gone mad. I'm your host, Seth Holhouse. On this show, we talk to real Americans with real solutions. We help you to connect what's happening today to decisions that powerful people made in the past so we can learn from it and build something better. Now, before we start, please hit that like button. It really helps get this information out to more people. Also, please subscribe, share this with someone who needs it, and leave me your thoughts in the comments. Remember, every episode is also done as a podcast, so if you'd rather listen, find us on your favorite podcast app. And if you're on Apple Podcasts, a quick review helps us to reach even more people. All right, let's get into my interview now with Dr. Ron Elfenbein. Dr. Ron Elfenbein, it is good to have you on the show, and I'm really excited to get your story out. So thank you for being here. I'm looking forward to this discussion. Thanks for having me, Seth. It's great to finally meet you. Big fan of your show. I always love hearing that, especially from smart people. It's always nice to have people that are like, okay, I'm not just kind of reaching the people that I think is like myself. I'm reaching people that are lots of good degrees and intelligent, successful people. A degree doesn't mean you're smart, so don't fall into that trap. That's true. Actually, I do have a degree from So just to give kind of an overview or give a basic understanding of your story, I really want to kind of walk you through. I'll have you walk us through it. You are obviously a doctor, an MD. You're very successful, very celebrated by even bipartisan support by the medical associations in your state. You were very proactive during the early COVID stages and testing a lot of things. But it seems like you made this fatal mistake of thinking for yourself, and you started kind of seeing some inconsistencies and then started highlighting those, and then the system then turned on you. The same system was supporting you, turned on you. Your case was, I think, kind of thrown out initially, but then DOJ opened it back up, and they're coming back at you again. So that's just kind of my limited understanding of the walk us through that process. Tell us that story, starting maybe around 2020 or so. Yeah. So I owned an urgent care center, and I could see what was coming in terms of COVID coming to the United States. Even though our government was telling us it wasn't, I could clearly see that there was something coming. So I started to prepare. I started to prepare my staff. I didn't actually work at the facility. I was just the medical director. So I started to purchase PPE, personal protective equipment, and testing supplies, and teaching my staff what to do, and how to care for patients, and how to be safe. We very quickly became the largest testing site in the area, and then I believe in the state of Maryland. We grew from one site, about six employees, to over eight sites and over 300 employees in about a 14-month span. So just exponential growth. It wasn't because of some great business acumen. It was because the world was ending, and the people were lining up because they needed to be tested. That's it. There was overwhelming demand, and nobody could meet that demand. Just to give you an example, we would open one of our sites at eight o'clock in the morning. We had people lining up at four, four a.m., backing up over a mile in their cars. I'm not exaggerating. We had to hire off-duty police officers to come and man this because we couldn't manage. It was just insane. So we were the largest testing site, certainly the largest private one in the state, and then President Trump in 2020 got monoclonal antibodies. I watched this, and I watched him be helicoptered from the White House to the hospital. I think he went to Walter Reed, got admitted, said he felt terrible. He got monoclonal antibodies, and within a couple hours, he walked out of the hospital saying, I feel like a new person. That was a direct quote. So I was like, wow, this is incredible. I mean, I'd heard about monoclonal antibody technology. It's something that's been around since the 70s, and I'll go into what that is in a second. But I was like, I got to learn everything I can about that because that right there is the cure for this disease. Everybody should be getting that. So I researched it, and I mean, I don't know anything about that stuff. That's not what I do. You get shot, you get stabbed, you have a heart attack, you get run over by a car. I'm your guy, right? I'm an emergency doctor. I trained at Johns Hopkins. I treat emergencies. Infusions was not my thing, but I'm like, let me learn about it because we have the opportunity to cure people. So what a monoclonal antibody is, is if you imagine like a, remember those koosh balls, little balls you could throw, and they would make the koosh sound with all the little hair sticking out? So each one of those hairs, let's imagine that's a virus particle, okay? Each one of those hairs is a protein that sticks off of a virus particle, and your body creates antibodies which is a protein that is an exact mirror image of what's sticking off. So if this is the hair, my finger is the hair, your body creates something that binds to the hair just like that, okay? It's exact mirror opposite of what the protein is that looks like in three dimensions on the virus. And your body, it binds up the virus so the virus can't infect you. So what the drug manufacturers do is they take the best antibody they can find against that particular antigen, that particular thing, virus, bacteria, protozoan, whatever it is, this foreign invader to your body, and they manufacture it. And they take it, they make, it's mono meaning one, clonal meaning it's been cloned. So they take that one antibody and they replicate it trillions of times. And it comes in a little vial, it's a powder, you mix it with some saline, and then you infuse it into somebody's arm over about 30 minutes. And basically what it is, it's what your body would produce given three or four weeks, we can give you in 30 minutes. So if you imagine your own immune system, we're supercharging it, that's what it is. And this is the technology that's been around since the 70s. We use it for lots of things in medicine, it's not new, it's been tried and tested, and it's been proven to work in multiple different immunology, cancer, heart disease, migraine headaches, other infectious diseases, all these things this technology will treat. So when I watched Trump get better with this stuff, I'm like, oh my God, we have this cure. And I was on national and international news at least once a week, I was on CBS, Fox, NBC, Breitbart, Sky News, Saudi Arabia News. I mean, believe it or not, Saudi Arabia had me on their news program, it's very odd. But anyway, we're talking about COVID. And then I started to talk about monoclonal antibodies. And I was like, this is the greatest thing ever. And I set up two infusion centers, because this stuff was so wonderful. And I watched with my own two eyes as people got better within 15 minutes of getting this infusion. And I'm not exaggerating, that's not hyperbole, it's incredible. The efficacy was like nothing I've ever seen in medicine. And I would have set up 100 sites if I could have, if I couldn't find the staff and I couldn't find the locations, but I would have kept going because the stuff was so wonderful. And then I set up a third one at the behest of the federal government actually, HHS, the Health and Human Services Department reached out to me and said, we'd like to open up a site at FedEx field where the Redskins play football, could you help us with that? So I went into partnership with the federal government and the Maryland Department of Health and we opened up a site at FedEx field and I ran it for a year and a half. And actually what we set up there, I call the test to treat model, that became the model going forward for the entire country for monoclonal antibodies. We would basically take people and test them and if they tested positive, we would have them wait in their car while the rapid test came back. And if they tested positive, we'd take them right from their car and put them in a chair and cure them of their COVID right then and there. It was remarkable, I mean, truly remarkable, like it was the cure. And then I started to, to your point, I started to question on national television, why are we going down this rabbit hole of universal vaccination? That's all we will talk about, the government, meaning that's all they would talk about. We have a cure. We don't need to shut the world down. We don't need to close schools. We don't need to tank the economy. We can treat those people who get sick and we can vaccinate the elderly who are at high risk. And if they get sick, we can cure them. Why are we shutting the world down? Why are we doing all these things that don't make any sense medically when we have this cure? And so this was kind of, and this was early on in the vaccination kind of campaign before a lot of the, the kind of real side effects and all those things started coming out. So it seemed like it was like, okay. Cause I remember those early days and you're kind of looking and you're waiting and you're, you know, I tend to be more skeptical. So I'm like, okay, where are all the lies and propaganda? But you can still see though, that there's this massive machine moving and this massive machine was then like paving this perfect, shiny, smooth road for the giant vaccine bulldozer, right? Just to kind of move through. And it's like all of a sudden the only solution was not hydroxychloroquine, it wasn't ivermectin, it wasn't anything like that. It was just like vaccine, vaccine, vaccine, everywhere. Right? And so you're seeing this and saying, okay, this doesn't make sense. Okay. I'll let you continue though. No, no, no, no. I mean, you're absolutely right. And what really got me about that, because look, trained as a physician, you're trained to believe what they tell you. The CDC says this, you're going to go with it because they're the experts. What really got me was, first of all, their nonsense about like, you could go to Walmart, but you couldn't go to a funeral. You could go to a BLM riot, but you can't go to your... My aunt passed away during COVID. I couldn't attend her funeral, but I could go protest at a BLM riot. This doesn't make any sense. There was a study that they published that if you're at a restaurant, if you're standing, the virus will infect you. But if you sit down to eat, the virus doesn't affect you, right? So you take your mask off to eat, right? Or if you go down the same aisle in Walmart against the arrow, you can get the virus. But if you go the way the arrow points, you can't get the virus. Remember those stupid arrows? Force fields, right? Yeah, exactly. Right, right. I'm like, this makes no sense. And then New York State, what really got me was New York State, they had all these nurses. They were complaining that there was a nursing shortage, which there absolutely was. And these people were heroes. And then they all got, a bunch of them got sick. I don't know if you remember this, but a bunch of them got COVID. They recovered, they wanted to go back to work. They said, you need to be vaccinated. They refused to get vaccinated because they said, I just got over COVID. They wouldn't let them go back to work. Now they were heroes, the next day they were pariahs, simply because they refused the vaccination, which medically they did not need. This is the only virus in the history of the world that doesn't impart natural immunity, meaning you recovered from it, you're therefore immune to it. Made no sense. And that's when I started to say, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. What are they pushing? And it begs the question, why are they doing this? So fast forward, we are infusing thousands of people and they are all getting better. We would follow, I had every single person who got infused. I had our providers, nurse practitioners and PAs who worked for me, all the patients within two days to see how they were doing. And universally, every single one of them was like, this stuff is a miracle. I am 100% recovered. I saw 102 or 103, I can't remember, a year old man come in, the color of my shirt, and we all thought he was going to die in our clinic. We were ready to call 911, but literally within 15 minutes of the infusion, his color came back. And within an hour, he was like, oh my God, he was off oxygen. He's like, I feel so much better. And I'm not making this up. The data bears this out. Study upon study upon study. If you could go back in time and buy oil before the world relied on it, would you? Of course you would. Anyone would. So why aren't you buying silver right now? 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If you just mention my name when you reach out to Noble Gold, they're going to send you a one-tenth ounce of gold coin just as a thank you when you open a new qualified account. So again, that's goldwithseth.com. So the administration, the Biden administration, and I don't mean to be political, but it was them, started to politicize this medicine. First, they said, we're going to federalize the distribution. And what that meant was, overnight, there were artificial shortages. The day before, whatever you asked for, you got. As soon as they, quote unquote, federalized the distribution, there was a shortage. Now, I live in Maryland, which is an overwhelmingly blue state. I could still get most of what I asked for. So if I asked for 100 doses, I might get 80. But Florida was cut off. Texas, essentially, cut off. So it just so happens that the red states seem to have a problem getting a hold of this medicine. And what was problematic about that was, Florida, by definition, has the highest risk population in the country because it's the highest median age population and the most comorbidities, diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, obesity, these things that put you at high risk of dying from COVID. They cut them off. Florida could not get monoclonal antibodies. So Ron DeSantis, who was on the bandwagon for monoclonal antibodies, he was giving this stuff right and left. He set up mobile units to go out to people's homes to give this stuff because he, too, recognized how efficacious this medicine was. They cut him off. He had to go to the drug manufacturers himself with Floridian taxpayer dollars to purchase the medicines. And the feds tried to stop him from doing that. They said, that's illegal. You can't do that. And he said, well, arrest me because I'm doing it anyway. And he did, thank God, because he saved people's lives. What they did was unconscionable. They basically, had he not done that, they consigned, they being the federal government, consigned all those people in Florida to die or need hospitalization. Well, not all of them, a certain percentage of them. And I can guarantee it was a high percentage that we either had passed away or needed to be hospitalized because of this. I mean, this is the same behavior that you typically only see in a communist nation or some sort of tyrannical government where they say, okay, we're going to seize all this land over here for production. We're seizing all the corn and the grain. And we're going to give a thousand calories to this village and 30 calories per person, this village. And all of a sudden, you've got mass starvation and mass death because of the government. I mean, it sounds like it was a very similar situation. Very Stalinist to your point. Yes. A thousand percent. And they were basically deciding who was going to live and who was going to die. And look, if there's a shortage of a medicine, you don't need to be Albert Einstein to figure out that that medicine should go where it's needed most. But you know what they used? They actually came out and admitted, we're going to use this criteria to determine where the medicine's going. Do you know what term they use? Equity. It was where it was most equitable. Of course, of course. And I don't even know what the hell that term means. And no one's ever been able to give me a good definition. But I can tell you this, it has no bearing in a medical discussion. That's a discussion about need and about who's the most, the neediest patient that needs this medicine the most. You know what? It may have been equitable to send it to Vermont, but Vermont wasn't having an outbreak. They didn't need it. Florida did. And to think that way is just antithetical to everything we're trained for as doctors and everything that your audience should be outraged by this. And I don't want to get off topic, but I want to say something. And please, prove me wrong, but I don't think you can. Any doctor who spoke out during, this is a pattern of behavior by the federal government. Any doctor who spoke out during COVID against the mantra and against the narrative got spanked one way or another. You either got de-platformed, you lost your privileges at hospitals, you lost your medical license, or in my case, they indicted you federally, criminally. One of those things happened to you. I don't know a single physician who spoke out on any major platform or anywhere, none of those things happened to, who spoke out against the narrative. That could scare the crap out of everybody. Because the doctors are the ones that you want to be able to speak out during a pandemic, for God's sakes, questioning the narrative. I mean, science means questioning. You shouldn't take anything for granted. Everything should be questioned all the time. That's how you grow. That's how we learn. That's how we get better. If you take things for granted, we're just a bunch of sheep, and that's what they wanted. So then, just to go back to my story, then they shut the whole program down. They basically shut the monoclonal program down in December of 2021. They just said, we're shutting it down. And they used very spurious data for that reasoning. And I went on Fox News, and here's a copy of the article, where I went on Fox News and I said, Maryland doctor says people are going to die after the Biden administration uses faulty data to snub antibody treatments. And I just was livid because they canceled this life-saving medicine that they had no business canceling. And people were gonna die because of it. There's no question about it. And then Newsmax called me two or three days later and said, wow, that was a pretty provocative interview you gave. Do you want to come on our show? And I said, absolutely. And I went, I was on with, I believe it was on with Sean Spicer. And I said, I doubled down. I'm like, yeah, they're killing people. People are in the hospital or dead because of these decisions that these idiots are making. And I said, they've never been right about anything in this entire pandemic. And they're leading us down this pathway that doesn't make any sense. And it's needless. And they're dying needlessly. Four months later, almost to the day I was on Fox News, I get indicted for federal healthcare fraud charges. Now, so your audience understands, typically healthcare fraud is what happened in Minnesota, right? It's for billing for things that don't exist, making stuff up. These were real patients. They charged me with five counts, five patients that I didn't even see, providers, nurse practitioners and PA saw. And they said that we were billing the wrong code. Even the judge, okay, the chief judge that was adjudicating my case who happened to be chief judge of Maryland, right? So he's not some schlock judge. He's the chief judge of the entire state. He called out the prosecution. Now this is the federal judge who said to the prosecution in a pretrial conference, this is a case of quote, shoot first and ask questions later, end quote, because they had done no real investigation. They just indicted me. So, so they indict you for healthcare fraud, which, okay, using the Somali case as an example, what would healthcare fraud be? Say I have this kind of pseudo clinic that I'm doing treatments, supposedly say giving treatment X, Y, and Z to these patients coming in and I'm getting paid through healthcare payments or whatever coming through for say 10,000 hours per treatment. And I'm just keeping it, or I'm giving them each 500 bucks for their time as they walk in. It's kind of like basic fraud. It's just lying about something to steal money, right? Correct. Correct. Right. But, but, but, but when you're talking about kickbacks, that's a different statute. That's a totally different, but it's still fraudulent. But typically what they would talk about would be like billing for cases of patients that never, you never came to your clinic. I see. So like, like the classic example, this actually happened to a guy in Maryland, I believe who was billing for Medicare patients while he was in, in England. Um, and the government had his flight records, his hotel reservations, everything. They could prove that he was in England. How could you possibly seem to be seeing patients in Maryland while you were in England? They clearly didn't happen. Okay. They didn't get seen. These were real human beings that got seen. In fact, the government called three of them at my trial and they all were like, yes, I'm a human being. Yes. I got seen. And yes, I got tested. So where was the indictment was only five people. It wasn't like you're running this big operation. It was just five individuals that, sorry. Yes. So to put this perspective and just how insane this is, um, they, they said we chose the wrong code on five patients out of over a hundred thousand that we saw during that timeframe of the indictment. Over the whole course of the pandemic, we saw over 300,000, but during the timeframe of this indictment, it was like eight months. I think we saw a hundred thousand patients. They chose five and they said, you picked the wrong code just so your audience understands the lexicon of coding that we use in medicine is over 69,000 codes. They said, we picked the wrong one on five charts. And fine, reasonable people can disagree. If you think I chose the wrong code for God's sakes, pick up the phone and say, could you explain like any normal person would do? You know, if you go to the grocery store and you're, you're buying, I don't know, pens and, and you, they, you think they overcharged you. You don't call the federal government or the FBI. You say, can I speak to the manager or can I speak to the checkout person? I think I got overcharged. They never did that. So anyway, even if you, even if you say fine, we picked the wrong code. Okay. We picked what's called the level four billing code. If you say, you should pick, should have picked the level three billing code. Okay. The difference between a four and a three on average is about 50 bucks. So you're trying to throw me in prison for 50 years. Okay. This carries 50 years in jail, destroy my life, millions of dollars in costs to defend myself, which I didn't have. And I still don't have over a $250 billing dispute because five times 50 is $250. And which agency or which, which organization was actually coming after you in this indictment? The Department of Justice, or as I call them, the Department of Injustice. So this is the DOJ step. So you start within four months of you going on this interview and speaking on Fox News publicly about this, the misuse of this medication, basically how the government is kind of killing people by selectively giving out this medication, medication, limiting it to certain areas that actually do need it. Four months later, all of a sudden the DOJ is coming after you threatening a 50-year, up to 50-year sentence for basically what's pocket change in someone's wallet in terms of potential Medicare fraud. Essentially. Yeah. I mean, there's no other way to put it. Yes. I mean, that's just to give you the idea of the ridiculousness of this. And to prove my criminal intent, because you have to prove intent as part of a crime, they put up my tax returns. And they were like, look how much money his business made before COVID, when we saw 10,000 patients a year, and look at how much money he made during COVID. In a year, we saw 120,000 patients. That's proof of some sort of nefarious intent. The fact that we made some money, that's what they did. So anyway, the judge, the chief judge of Maryland, again, this guy who adjudicated my case issues, the jury finds me guilty somehow. Worst day of my life. I just could not believe it. And I'm like, I didn't do anything wrong. This is insane. But just goes to show you how powerful the United States government is, and how they can, when you walk into a courtroom, just imagine the United States of America versus your name, whoever you are, anybody, put your name in there. Like you are at such a disadvantage from the very beginning. Worst day of my life, I had to be carried out of the courtroom. I was like, just, I couldn't see, I mean, it was, and then I had to drive home and tell my four children, all of whom are young, like, I'm gonna be going to prison, like, for something I didn't do. Anyway, three months later, the judge issues this 93-page opinion. I keep a copy of it here. Completely eviscerating the government's case, acquitting me of all charges, overturning the jury verdict, and he said such things as, and I just could read you a couple quotes. The government did not carry its burden, and no reasonable jury could have so concluded. Now he's saying this after a jury found me guilty, okay? The evidence weighs so heavily in favor of the defendant, that's me, that it would be unjust to enter judgment against him. There can, of course, be no crimes if the defendant complied with those rules. I mean, it just goes on and on and on, 93 pages of this, basically saying, they should never have brought this case, it was ridiculous. And completely acquitting me of all charges, and he guaranteed me a new trial in case the government appealed. And weeks before Trump's about to be inaugurated, the Biden Department of Justice decides to ruin my life yet again, and appeals the case knowing that once that snowball starts rolling, it's nearly impossible to start. So now I face a second criminal trial, even though it's under Donald Trump. You gotta find the right person that would look at this and be like, this is crazy, we need to stop this. I mean, it's like finding a needle in a haystack. So they knew what they were doing, and they wanted to just stick the knife in my back one more time. And just to add to the craziness of all this, the American Medical Association, I'm not a member, I've never been a member, and they don't do this. But they wrote an amicus brief, a friend of the court brief, saying he didn't break the rules. What's crazy about that is, they write the rules. The AMA wrote the rules that the government's accused me of breaking. So the very writer of the rules that the government's trying to throw me in prison for saying I broke, came to my defense and said he didn't break these rules. You just can't make this stuff up. And then about, I don't know, four months ago, it's supposed to now be remanded to the same judge, Judge Bredar, the Chief Judge of Maryland, who wrote this 93-page opinion. We get a one-line email that just says, I am recusing myself from your case. No explanation, just recuse. So the same judge who wrote a 93-page paper, basically, on all the faults of this case, that obviously seemed to be one of the few judges these days. I mean, I'm not kind of selling all judges, but it's not as common that you hear these things happening. This judge had a conscience, and he saw something that was so blatantly against the law that he built his entire career to uphold that he threw it out. He wrote that paper. He told you that if there was a retrial, that he would take you again, and he was going to be on your case. Then all of a sudden, randomly, you get a single-line email where he basically says, sorry, I'm out. I think he was so disgusted by what's going on that he just had to recuse himself, or he got some pressure. I don't know, but very odd, right? I mean, that's all I can say, is it's very strange, and it's very odd. Yeah, yes. Now, I will tell you that when President Trump took office, day one, he said, we're ending the weaponization of government. He issued a direct order, an executive order, and he have it right here. Two weeks later, Attorney General Bondi issued this memorandum, February 5th, 2025. And it says, restoring the integrity and credibility of the Department of Justice. And she lists at the back end these bullet points. And one of the bullet points is retaliatory targeting of legitimate whistleblowers. And I would argue that I went on national television. I said they are going to kill people by their incompetence in what they're doing. That makes me a whistleblower. I am the poster child for what they should be looking for. The President said, go out and find cases like this. I am that case. I just need someone to say, yes, you are that case. We should be lauding you and dropping these charges. I mean, I got during COVID for the work that I did. As you said before, our governor, Larry Hogan at the time, came and gave me a personal citation for all the work I did during COVID. He came to me personally and handed me this big piece of paper that's very nice. And we have pictures and all this stuff. The Democrat legislature, I'm a Republican. I ran for state senate. I nearly won, but I didn't. I'm a well-known Republican in the state. The Democrat legislature did the same thing. They gave me a personal citation for all the work I did for my fellow Marylanders. And the Medical Society named me its person of the year. And the federal government tries to throw me in jail for 50 years because I had the temerity to speak out and to try to right this wrong. And I'll tell you something. What's really scary about this stuff is that, like I said before, every doctor that I know that spoke out in one way or another has gotten smacked down. And that is just the most blatant example of government overreach and overuse. And it should terrify everybody. Because again, what country are we living in? Well, I mean, it's not like there's someone who is a, say, CIA whistleblower. A handful of them come forward and say, hey, the CIA is actually running drugs and doing all kinds of nefarious activities. That's one thing, right? That, okay, these are people within the government that are, if they were silencing or whatever, I'm not going to say it makes sense or I agree with it, but it's like, okay, that would maybe make a little more sense, just kind of being objective. But what this is, is you're not a government employee, right? You're someone that has taken an oath to do no harm and taken an oath and built a career on the principle of trying to help keep people alive and trying to help people stay healthy, right? It's kind of, seems kind of crazy, but now doctors, I think, are kind of in some other space, but it seems like that seems to me to be the foundation of what it means to be a doctor, is that you want to help bring health and heal ailments for people. And so the government then coming in and targeting people like yourself, and I've interviewed, I know, and I've interviewed dozens of these same people that have been, the government has come after them for questioning the government's role in health. I mean, it crosses so many lines that it's disgusting. Yeah. And it's clearly, I mean, it's bright as day staring right at us. It's an identifiable pattern of behavior. I'm just another, to your point, I'm another example, 100%. Now, maybe my example is worse than other people because they're literally trying to ruin my life and throw me in prison. But it happens to everybody who spoke out, everybody. Again, I could be wrong. Maybe there's a doctor out there that didn't come after, but I don't know that person. And every single person that spoke out got beaten down one way or another. And it's just unconscionable. And what really, yes, my story is sad, but people died because of this. That's, I think, the real tragedy. People died. They're never coming back, and they didn't need to. And we didn't need to shut the world down. We didn't need to destroy the economy. We didn't need to destroy children's lives because we could have gone down the pathway of let's keep the world open and treat the sick. We have a treatment. Let's use it. Let's embrace it. And you know what's crazy, Seth? To this day, you can get the vaccine, but you can't get monoclonal antibodies. They're gone to treat COVID. Not available. The CDC just awarded Pfizer over a billion dollar contract with, I think, specifically for COVID vaccines. And if I remember correctly, there was a couple hundred million dollars in that that was awarded for continued development and production of COVID vaccines for children, for adolescents. And it's been shown to be harmful to certain people. I mean, there's data that says that they are not good for you. Monoclonal antibodies are the exact opposite, and they're not available anymore. But you can still get the crappy vaccine that nobody wants. This makes no sense. Right after they indicted me, the monoclonals, poof, they're gone. They went away, and they're not available on the market. Now, I will tell you that Secretary Kennedy speaks about this. He spoke about it on Joe Rogan. He spoke about it on Megyn Kelly. And he's spoken about it multiple other times. He said the reason they had to shut down hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin, to your point, they were efficacious drugs. Ivermectin in particular has been around for 50 years, and it works, and it's safer than Tylenol. But they had to beat him down because he says that if there's a federal law, that if there's a vaccine for which there's an emergency use authorization, if anything else is proven to be efficacious, that EUA becomes null and void. So they had to beat down hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin because otherwise they would have lost the vaccine. Same thing with monoclonal antibodies. It's an incredible cure they had for this disease that works, easy to give, easy to distribute, takes 30 minutes, and you were cured one dose. They had to beat it down. They had to shut me up, and they had to get rid of it because it was working so well. As crazy as that sounds, that makes perfect sense when you think about it from that viewpoint. It's scary, but it's true. Now, I know that Dr. Kirk Moore, who was in a similar situation as yours, and arguably, you could say that what he did was much more outside the legal boundaries of what you did, supposedly making a mistake in the coding. He was actively giving patients saline instead of the vaccine. But even in his case, Pam Bonny stepped in and she basically threw it out. She met with him, and I talked to him shortly after that. So again, it was a really bright day in the region of justice to think, oh, okay, there is some sense of justice still, especially within the federal government. Now, obviously, she's out, and obviously, this case is still... So you're saying basically they revived your case within a couple of weeks of Biden leaving the office, and so that case then got transferred over. It's now being handled by the Trump DOJ. And so since that... Now, that was what... Gosh, was it almost two years ago? 2025, January. You know what I mean? It was a year and a half ago. Has anything changed? Have they communicated with you? Or has it just been the same pressure and same indication that they're just going to be coming after you for round two? I can't really talk about that. They have reached out. They have reached out, and I will tell you that, but I can't really go into the details. I'm sorry, I just can't talk about that stuff. But I mean, it's essentially the same thing, and they're charging me with this crime. And to your point, the crime that they're charging me with, typically, if they really think that there's a billing dispute, it's a civil case. This is not a criminal case. What they do is... So just to back up a little bit, and I don't want to get too much into the details, but people don't know this. When your doctor's office bills, you go to see the doctor. Seth, you go to see the doctor, you got a sore throat. The doctor submits to your insurance, be it Medicare or private, doesn't matter, your name and a bunch of codes. That's it. The chart doesn't go with that. If the insurance company has a question, they ask to see the charts. But the charts, they stay with the provider, with the doctor or the nurse practitioner or the PA. They never go to the insurance company unless they specifically ask for them. So they never ask for these charts. They're supposed to. They're supposed to say, well, if we really have a billing question, they're supposed to do a chart audit. And they're supposed to look and randomly pick charts and then say, well, we disagree with your billing. And then they're supposed to have a conference with you where you get to present your side, they present their side, and you come to some agreement. That's a civil matter, not a criminal matter. But yet they criminalize this, in my case, to say, you're a criminal and we want to throw you in jail. Over five charts that the wrong code was chosen. I mean, it makes no sense unless you look at it from the lens of weaponization and trying to shut this person up. Because otherwise, it's just, are you kidding me? The weight of the federal government, the Biden administration had everything on Jeffrey Epstein, that huge file, all that information. They didn't release a bit of it. They didn't go after a single child molester or murderer, nobody. They came after me. What does it say about their priorities? They wanted to shut me up. And they spent so much money to come after me to do this. It probably cost them $5, $10 million to prosecute me. For what? It's crazy. And so this is, you would be facing, as you mentioned, potentially up to five decades in, I mean, really, that's the rest, it's a life sentence, potentially. Well, yes. So that's the worst. And it's the reason that it's 50 is because each count has 10 years in prison. Yeah, and they're successive. Now, I've never done anything wrong in my life. I don't even need parking tickets. So presumably, the judge, there's sentencing guidelines and stuff. So that would come way down. But yes, I face up to 50 years in prison for this. And murderers are walking around after like six weeks in jail or whatever it is. The system is so crazy. It's mind-boggling. Yes, the world is getting crazier every day. We know that. Every time you check the news, another crisis, conflict. You can't control what happens out there. You should know that by now, but you can control how you prepare for it. You can make sure no matter what happens, you have the basics covered in each one of these disasters that could reach your doorsteps. Things like having food to eat when the shelves are empty. That's a big one. So when it comes to food security, MyPatriotSupply is a great option out there for you. Very affordable. They've helped millions of Americans get prepared. They've got over 90,000 five-star reviews. Right now, you can get their best-selling three-month emergency food supply for $100 off. They rarely do deals like this. Check it out. If you want to get stock up, just get a three-month supply. Highly recommend having at least a month. Honestly, at least get to a month. Three months is great. If you want to check it out, go to preparewithmia.com. The food kit gives you about 2,000 calories a day. It lasts up to 25 years. And again, it's $100 off. So preparewithmia.com and go get yours right now. So you mentioned that you have had some communication with the DOJ, for a lot of reasons that has to be private, which I understand. However, the case is still active, right? So what is the next court date? What do the next steps look like in this? The trial was supposed to be in the beginning of August, but it just got moved to January 11th of 2027. So that bought me a little bit more time. I will tell you that there have been lots of people in the federal government who've come to my defense. I was on a podcast, and this is why doing this is so important. And I want to thank you for having me, because people like you, alternative media, are so important, because you can't believe the media lies, and you can't believe what they're force-feeding you. And I was on a podcast. At first, I went public. I'm like, you know what? I'm going to go public, because that's what Kirk Moore suggested I do when I talked to him. Great guy, by the way. We've become very good friends. I said, what do I do? What's the secret sauce? And he said, go public. It made up my mind. I'm going to go public. I go on a podcast, a pretty big podcast. A week later, my phone rings. I don't recognize the number. I answer it. And the guy says, hi, this is the United States Senator so and so. I saw you on this podcast, and I want to help you. And I live in Annapolis. I'm 40 minutes from DC. The next week, I'm in his office meeting with him personally for an hour. And he had to pick a jaw off the floor, because he was so just flabbergasted by what I was telling him. And I'm not making this up. I mean, I have the receipts to prove it all. And he's been very helpful, very, very helpful. So my point in saying this is, you don't know who's listening. You don't know who's paying attention. And you never know where this kind of stuff will go. The only recourse I have is to speak out, and that's what I'm doing. They get to speak out. And for two and a half years, my lawyers were like, don't say a word. Don't talk to anybody. And the DOJ puts out press releases. They paint you as this hard and awful person, like you're the worst human being on the face of the Earth. They destroy you every way they possibly can. And even after I got acquitted, they made it nearly impossible for me to get back to work. And I never lost my medical license, because the state controls that, not the feds. But they made it nearly impossible for me to do that. And why? Just because they can. They will crush you, and they will continue to crush you, because they can. It's really reprehensible. I mean, it is. And this microphone is my weapon, right? Because the new thing is a war. It's an information war in many ways. And I'm guessing that Fox News isn't inviting you on to talk about this case, right? Because hopefully they do. I'd love to see that or you sit down with them. Because I think Dr. Kirk Moore went on to Tucker, if I remember correctly. He did. He went on Tucker Carlson. So maybe that opens up for you. But yeah, this is how it's supposed to be, right? Independent media that keeps the government in check and questions and just brings facts. And we're not telling people what to believe, but saying, hey, there's all these other sides to the story that you as an independent thinking person with your rights coming from God, not the government, deserve to have the broad spectrum of information so you can make up your mind. It's a very, very important thing that's unfortunately being limited and being targeted similarly to the doctors that are speaking out. I'll give you an example to your point. So a friend of mine is an OBGYN. He's also board certified as an oncologic surgeon. And his practice was to see — his name is Sanjeev Kumar — his practice was to see Medicaid patients, so primarily low-income people who either had Medicaid or didn't have insurance, in Tennessee, rural Tennessee. And he would see these people. And now look, they're being referred to him with the worry that they have cancer, uterine or ovarian cancer. So he does what's called a hysteroscopy, where you stick a camera into the woman's uterus and you can look around. The government brought him up on charges for doing too many hysteroscopies. And they originally charged him with rape because he was using a hysteroscope. Now, they eventually dropped those charges. But could you just imagine how tainted the jury pool is after they publicly claim this guy is committing rape? Now, they knew they couldn't make that stick and they knew it was BS, but they did it anyway just to taint the jury pool so that people would say, you know what, maybe he's really not guilty of this, but he's got to be guilty of something because they called him a rapist. I got to find him guilty of something. Now, that is just unbelievable. But I just witnessed it. He just got 20 years in jail. He just got sentenced to 20 years. So they actually sentenced him. 20 years. Yes, 20 years. And I mean, he hasn't gone in yet, but he's unbelievable. And I met him through this whole process. I've met a lot of people through this whole process because we're in similar situations and we reach out to each other. And this happens to a lot of people, more than you think. And to your listeners, they should care about this because one, you want your doctors to be able to speak out and to be able to respond to a pandemic, but nobody's going to step up and the right thing the next time because why would you? But more importantly, they can do this to the President of the United States, Donald Trump. They can do this to me. Why would they not do it to you? I'm nobody, right? And they crushed me because they don't like what I'm saying. Why would they not do it to you? And I don't mean you, Seth, I mean anybody listening. Why would they not? They can. I'm not saying the Trump DOJ would, but who knows who the next guy is going to be or the next guy after that. Why would they not use this power that they have to crush you when they can't? That's what should frighten everybody. And I will tell you the other thing is that the next pandemic, we are not going to be able to vaccinate our way out of, despite the fact that that's what they want to do, they being the establishment. Monoclonal antibodies need to be front and center in that pandemic response. And they should be, but you know what? Nobody's talking about it. You can't even get them anymore. They're just poof, they're gone. That's really frightening too. No, it is. It is. So for people that are watching this and want to help, right? Because we've established, and I certainly agree with this, the most important thing with this is just getting this information out there. It's sending this interview. So say, you know, your local senator, send a link to this interview, right? It doesn't matter what state, whatever. Because you're right, eventually, and you'd be surprised. I'm surprised sometimes when I hear of certain people like, oh, that guy watches my podcast, you know, have some celebrity or something, and I'll have this kind of through a grapevine, I realize like, oh, yeah, that guy's a fan of yours. I had no idea, right? But you'd be surprised at how these things can spread. But really, the best way it spreads is through that grassroots, through that, send it to a friend, right? Post it on a Facebook group, send it out to your church newsletter, whatever it is. So obviously, get the information out. Also, you have a website set up, dropthecase.com. And so this is, what can people find on this website? What should they do here? Well, thanks for asking. There's a support button. And if people could see it in their hearts to go to the Give, Send, Go and donate, I'd very much appreciate it. Because, I mean, look, defending yourself is ridiculously expensive. And, you know, the government thinks you're worth millions and millions of dollars. I mean, I drive a Hyundai, my wife drives a Subaru. We're not rolling in cash. And essentially, the first case bankrupted us. And luckily, my wife was able to work. She's a pediatric oncologist. She treats children with cancer. That's her job. Luckily, she was able to continue to work when I had to take off two and a half years. And then I barely was able to get back to work after that. So the first go around basically bankrupted us. And I don't know how we're going to pay for the second go around. And I'm in debt to my lawyers for the rest of my life. I mean, basically, they were very gracious about it. And they're like, look, we know you're innocent. So we're going to continue to support you. But you've got to keep paying us. So every month I write a check. It's more than my mortgage. It's basically double my mortgage. But I write them a check, whatever I can afford, you know, because they deserve to get paid. They did their work and they're good lawyers. So if people can see to give, I very much appreciate it. You can contact me there. People can follow me on X. I write on Substack. They can follow me on Substack. There's a whole timeline on the website explains everything. And look, I'm trying to be as open and honest about this as I possibly can. Like I'm not hiding anything. I'm not sensationalizing things like I oftentimes feel when I'm talking to people that I'm wearing like a tin hat and like I'm insane. But fact is stranger than fiction. I mean, we all live through COVID, right? We all know what happened. All the insanity that went on. None of that was we didn't make that up like that's real. If I come to any of you 10 years ago and said I'm talking started talking about what we just lived through, you would think I'm talking about like a Michael Crichton novel, you know, but it really happened. Like this is true. So yeah, they can, as you said, please just speak out, share this with people, talk to your friends, talk to your family because this cannot be allowed to stand. It is antithetical to everything our country stands for. And you know, I spoke to a couple of weeks ago in Spain. She hadn't had her podcast in Spain. And I said, you know, we in the United States, we take liberty very seriously. We really believe in liberty and the pursuit of happiness and freedom. And it's a facade like this. You're innocent until proven guilty is nonsense. You're guilty when we tell you you're guilty. That's how it is. And that shouldn't be like that. That's not what the system is set up to be. And when they come after people and crush them like they can do. And, you know, thank God, at least I have some resources. If I didn't have resources, I would have had to take it a plea deal, plead to something I didn't do, raise my right hand and perjure myself in court saying I committed a crime when I didn't is perjury. That's a crime. And I would have had to have done that because I would be, you know, I wouldn't have had the means to defend myself. So it's really horrible. And when they weaponize the justice system against its own citizens, like that is just the worst of the worst, like show me the man, I'll show you the crime. That's what this is. It's terrible. It's terrible. Exactly. Well, I hope that this interview we just did can be, it can play some small part in the overall inertia to getting this out to more people. And I just encourage anybody who's gotten to the end of this, share this information, support you through your website. Again, the URL is dropthecase.com. Really easy to remember, dropthecase.com. Share, support, everything else. And Ron, just thank you for being on the front lines. There's a Chinese saying that something defective, like no one wants to be the front duck, right? Meaning that if you have the duck on the front, that's always the first one that gets shot by the hunter. And so no one wants to be on the front, yet a lot of these doctors like yourself were on the front and you're being shot because of it. So we have to just support you in all the ways that we can. Thank you. It sounds silly, but this is the truth. And I, look, I mean, I take this stuff seriously. I took an oath when I was in medical school when I first got my degree. It meant something to me, right? I mean, it meant something to me. Really, it always has. And I'm watching this unfold before our eyes and I'm thinking to myself, I could go hide in my basement. I don't need to go to work. I mean, I could literally hide in my basement, shut my business down, stop going to the emergency room. I don't need to do this. But I said, this is my time to shine. This is what I trained for. And I don't mean that as a personal thing. I just mean, I'm an ER doctor. I trained at Johns Hopkins. I have the skill set that is needed during this time. If I'm ever going to do something, this is it. So I embraced it with everything I possibly could. I didn't see my family for two and a half years. I lived off my phone because it was constantly phone calls and dealing with problems and putting out fires. That's what we should want on the front lines, to your point. People like that. And I'm not patting myself on the back. I'm just saying, that's what we should be striving for. And instead, they charge you with the crime. It's just, yeah, anyway, I'm sorry. Yeah, no, I mean, it's just disgusting. I'm at loss of words for it. But anyway, I hope that we can get some inertia behind this, get more and more people involved, get more people with power and reach to come in and step in and support you. Because I would hate to see even a small percentage of this guilt being rest upon you for this. It's just absolutely absurd. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I appreciate your time. And I appreciate you having me on. Absolutely. Yeah. As I said before, I'm a huge fan of the show. So I drive. Now my work, I have a long commute. So I listen to the show. I don't watch it. I listen to it when I'm driving. Oh, yeah. So you're one of those people that at the end of the introduction, I say, and if you prefer to listen instead of watch, just get your favorite podcast app and search for Man in America. So that's you. So, well, good. Well, thank you for watching the show. I'm glad that you enjoy it. And I hope that we can move the needle with this interview. So thank you again for giving us your time today. Thank you, Seth. I really appreciate it. Great to finally meet you. Thank you, you too. I've looked at a lot of different parasite cleanses. I've done a lot of them. This one looks phenomenal. Not to mention it's developed by this guy who's been doing this for 50 years. So I would recommend you do the stool test to see if you do have any parasites or if you have Lyme issues to kind of pinpoint exactly what's going on. But I've done these parasite cleanses before, not this exact one, but these are very, very potent, very powerful. And I actually really trust the one that was developed by the guy who's been doing this for over 50 years. So the URL to go directly to this cleanse is sethcleanse.com. So again, that's sethcleanse.com. We'll take you straight to this page right here to make it easy for you and give it a shot. Yeah, give it a shot. Let me know what you think. Thank you.