New York Is Talking About Amy Griffin! "It Didn't Add Up" Peter Davis on 'The Tell'

Well, to great fashionistas like myself and Avenue Magazine's editor-in-chief, Peter Davis, it was an absolute flabbergaster when the Metropolitan Museum of Art's Costume Institute announced it would dedicate its annual exhibit and, of course, the great big gala that goes along with it to the work of John Galliano, the British designer, legendary House of Dior. The event is chaired by Anna Wintour. There was a massive backlash when this happened, and Anna had to retrace her steps. And Galliano put out a statement saying, I have decided with great sadness that it's best for the exhibition not to take place at this time. But he called Anna courageous. I don't know if that means courageous for having the guts to cancel it, or the testicular fortitude to choose him in the first place to be honored. Why, you say? Fifteen years ago, John Galliano went on a series of drunken anti-Semitic rants like bad ones at a cafe. He told two women sitting at a table next to him, your mothers, your forefathers would all be ******* gassed, he said. And he said he called them dirty Jewish face. You should be dead. Then on a separate occasion, I love Hitler. People like you would be dead. Your mothers, your forefathers would all be ******* gassed. Okay. He was fired from Dior. Amazingly, years later, three years later or so, he came back to be the creative director of Maison Margiela. But his fall from greatness was complete. But no doubt, an icon. If you're a fashion fan or fashionista, you know the name and the work of John Galliano. He claims that he was in the throes of addiction at the time that he threw up when he saw this rant, because one of them was videotaped. But I mean, I call him the Mel Gibson of the fashion world. Mel was forgiven. He went forward with his career. He's doing great. He was, you know, blamed it on addiction. No doubt, there's evidence of that. But that ----, Mr. Galliano, it doesn't come out of nowhere. I mean, right, maybe it was released with the sauce or the wheels were greased, but it's not just out of nowhere. Anyway, joining us right now, like I said, Avenue Magazine's editor-in-chief, Peter Davis. Peter, this must be all the talk on the Avenue. It is. I'm not shocked that they canceled it. I think it all had to do with Moolah, number one. As we know, Alice Tish, who's a huge donor to the Met, said that she basically threatened to pull money. Jill Cardman resigned, who's a fashionista and a writer. And I think, you know, when Do Re Mi comes into the picture, it's easier. Also, it would have been a huge headache. I mean, the security involved, and they would have probably lost celebrities attending it. I just, I don't know what Anna Wintour was thinking. Do you think she is so in a bubble that she had no idea and people are so afraid of her that no one had the balls to go and say, darling, what are you doing now? A hundred percent. And now she has pie in her face. She's eating mud pie. And of course, she released a statement that was innocuous, just saying how brave Galeana was. It wasn't, it was just dumb of her to do this. And Andrew Bolton, I'm just surprised it even happened and took this long to dismantle. Maybe Anna's testing, you know, maybe her ego is so massive. She's been running this show for over 30 years. Maybe she's just like, watch me. This is how big I am. I will, I'll appoint Galeana and I'll get away with it. And it was swift. The reaction was overwhelming and the backtrack quick. Yeah. Huge. Right away, the reaction. And, you know, she's good friends with them. And listen, he's a talented designer. He would have been the third living designer after Rhea Koukouba and Yves Saint Laurent, who aren't controversial, to have an exhibit. And a lot of people are pushing for Andre Leontali to have an exhibit. I think they should maybe have an exhibit, politics and fashion. Andre Leontali, the longtime second seat to Anna Wintour at Vogue magazine. I remember on, I loved interviewing Andre when I was at Access Hollywood. He was, he was just so grand and big, massive man, but he's not a designer, right? So how do you, how do you do a tribute? His vision of fashion. So his exhibit would be things that he likes, like curated almost by yeah, I think on through Andre's eye. Okay. I think people would have probably liked that. You know, it's funny. Robin Given from the New York Times had to cancel the Met Ball altogether, which obviously they're not going to do now, but it will be interesting to see what they come up with. It's going to be the most politically correct decision that they've ever made. I think you came down to you. You're dead right about the Jewish donors. You know, there's a lot of power and in New York, the power of the purse is everything. Who did you mention? Is it Alice Tish? Alice Tish and her husband. I guess they donate tens and tens of thousands of dollars. Which Tish is she? Is she the New York giants? Is the John Tish's wife? Is it which, which one? I wonder. Tish is her husband. She's from that exactly what she is. But she did. She sent an email saying how horrified she was basically by the decision. And that email got sent around amongst social circles in New York, high society. And I think that also sparked a lot of worry. And once you pull away the money, which everything changes. Peter Davis is the editor in chief of Avenue Magazine. He he's in the know, sir. On the board of the Met Gala is a woman named Amy Griffin. And I have been obsessed with this story that I just kind of stumbled into when a young, when a woman who was in her eighth grade class back in Amarillo, Texas said the details in her bestselling memoir, The Tell, which was peddled and promoted by Oprah and many other dignitaries, the literati, we call them. That the woman said those details of of sexual abuse, childhood abuse are mine. And that Amy appropriated them. And so these dueling lawsuits have come into play. There's some developments on that front that that I'm going to get into. But, you know, Amy's on the board of the Met. I wonder, first of all, has there been are there just whisperings, do you think, about her and whether or not they're true? I think everybody overlooked in the beginning when the book came out, they just overlooked the obvious problems that nothing is corroborated here. And and the claims seem broad. And and so they kind of just look past it. But then The New York Times did this massive investigation article and everything has led to where we are, which are these dueling lawsuits. But she's on the board of the Met. Are people talking about this in New York? The New York Post should be all over this. I mean, I'm obsessed with it and people are talking about it. I watch everything you report on it. It's funny. I read the book right when it came out. And my cousin, Bell Burden, also wrote a memoir, which I read an advanced copy of. It got a little bit of much different. Your cousin is Bell Burden? My cousin. And I read the book months and months before it came out. She said it to me. And so I know everyone in the book. Obviously, I actually went to school with her husband, Buckley, in New York. So I knew the whole story. And, you know, she got a little bit of blowback, which is a lot more dough than maybe she let on in the book. Also, a Dial Press book, by the way. I'll tell you this about Whitney Frick, the editor over at Dial Press. Woman can pick them. She may have problems with the background checking and all of that and the fact checking, but boy, can she pick a book. And Bell Burden's was terrific. I ripped right through it. I read it instantly. It was great. And it takes place, a lot of it, on the vineyard where you are. I just think the difference was much better. So then, you know, the tell came out and I read it and I actually turned to my husband about a third of the way through and said, I don't buy this. You know, as a writer and an editor, I just didn't, it didn't add up. And then by the end of the book, not knowing anything, but months before the New York Times article came out, I said, I think this whole thing is made up. I said, I don't know. I'm not going to sleuth around, but just details don't make sense. And fast forward, the Times article comes out. Fun side note, the day the Times article came out, I was outside my office and I saw Amy Griffin. I looked at this woman and thought, who is that? She looks really familiar. You know, side note, we have a lot of mutual friends in New York, Amy. I'm not friends with her, but it's touching. And a lot of my friends that are close with her have stayed mum. And I'm not referring to Oprah and Gwyneth and Reese. I'm referring to high society types who are friends with her and they've said nothing. Amy Griffin's turned off her Instagram or hasn't posted. And so the last comments are from friends saying, wonderful, you speak for all women. And really, I think that I pity the woman whose story she sold. And I know Sam Lansky. I've interviewed him. The ghost writer. Yes. I've known him since before he wrote his first book when he was a journalist. And my surprise when I found out that Sam was the ghost writer is I've read both his books. I profiled him on his book about ayahuasca and did some research on it, which is really similar to the tell. It's I mean, as far as recovered memories and. And that's obviously why she hired him. And he waits. So you profiled him. You spent some time with Sam Lansky. Why do we have Sam Lansky writing your most personal? I don't know. I just feel like I think she hired him for, you know, really two reasons. One, he wrote the ayahuasca book, so it was material or subject matter that he had treaded before. And my biggest surprise was if you read Sam's first two books, he's a great writer. And I thought the tell was horribly written. And so I really wondered how much Amy Griffin had him dumb it down. Maybe he wrote something and she said, I wouldn't say it that way. It just didn't feel both authentic and it just wasn't well written. I agree with you. I don't think it was well written. I think it was propelled by unbelievably graphic and alarming, you know, incidents of of sexual assault by this very wealthy woman revealing these things. And it is if you read it, I mean, the writing of the belt buckle in the sun coming through. And it's almost like it's it's it's not just graphic, but it's I don't want to use the word romantic. But I mean, it's like it's like fiction writing of like like that you would read in a in a forum letter or something. And yet it takes place to a child who was who is now a very rich and influential board member of the Met and funder of female founder companies. And, you know, so it's got that allure. And then she provided to Dial Press a list of 91 really influential, famous people who are in her cabal who would promote the book. And of course, that's very attractive to Dial Press because it's a it's a tough world out there. The interesting to see what happens. You know, Amy Griffin isn't hiding. I've noticed your friend Katie on Instagram, who's also on the case. Katie and Casey. Yeah. Casey cracks me up. I sent her a picture. Amy was at a U.S. Open thing that Anna Winter hosted with Roger Federer. Oh, Amy's very close to Roger and Roger Federer's wife. They stay for two weeks or something every year with Amy out in the Hamptons. Yep. And so she was photographed with Tory Burch at that thing. She was at an Aaron Lauder lunch and a watermelon or something. Money trumps everything. I mean, if you're I mean, you know, these people, if you're medium rich, they might be like, oh, let's stay away. But if you are really rich, people just I mean, like Amy's one of the richest, you know, Amy and John Griffin are some of the richest people in America. Yeah. Which is it'll be interesting to see what happens. I mean, I agree with what you've said. I think that they if she was smart, they would throw money and settle it and just hope. Yeah. Right. I don't think she's going to ever write a book again unless maybe she wrote about this. I think this was to put her on the map. I, you know, I don't think she wanted to become an actual like where's my father, where's my sophomore, you know, tomb. I don't think she's you know, she's just she's just in a sea of really famous people. And, you know, I think I'm not saying entirely, but there was definitely a draw to have an identity beyond just the woman in the background with all the money that funds the companies completely. I said to someone, they said, well, why would she even write this book in the first place? She doesn't need the money. I said, you know, say you're at the Met Ball, you know, who cares what your handbag is? But if you have a bestseller, that's something to talk about. It's the ultimate social accessory, social passport. I mean, it gives her a whole new level of interest. And I completely agree with you. And I think that was obviously the motivation to write the book. Peter, she just filed this opposition just a day ago. She filed this opposition to the Nevada anti-slap suit, which was which was put in by a Jolene, the woman, you know, the other girl, the other woman, Amy sued her in Nevada federal court. Jolene responds with an anti-slap in order to get it thrown out. And Amy has to file an opposition to that and say, this is why my case should go forward. And in it, this is crazy. Originally, she outed Jolene, who was known as Jane Doe in her California suit. And Amy said, well, no, I'm going to call you Jolene for who you are. So she outed this woman who has sexual abuse in her past. And then her latest exhibit is she outed the actual teacher because these because these exhibits in these filings are public. You can access them. She published as Exhibit N in her filing, in her opposition, the New York Times letter that the two writers, Katie Rossman and Liz Egan, sent to her back in September, almost a year ago, a couple of weeks before the article, the big investigation into her book came out. They sent her the fact checking list and holy, I mean, this is a long one, but they said, dear Amy and Amy takes this letter and it's not even like in its original form. It's almost copy and it's copy and pasted into a Word document. And the name of the teacher whose life has been ruined that Amy says, you know, sexually assaulted her from the ages of 12 to 16, very graphically, very violently. In the book, he's known as Mr. Mason. But in this letter that she publishes, this fact checking letter, she outs the guy, uses his name. So now she's put this guy. He actually has a defamation suit now. This is unbelievable. But when you go through this letter that the New York Times wrote her, like if you are interested in this story, but you haven't stayed up on it, every detail in here is incredible. I mean, it's just we report that your book, which includes what you describe as recovered memories of flashes of shocking assaults, was an instant sensation and receiving exuberant endorsements from celebrities and influencers with large media platforms. We report that the book was buttressed by the tailwinds of the Me Too movement and the believe women idea that all claims of sexual abuse should be believed. And remember, the original title to Amy's book was called Believe Me. And then it changed to tell. We report that the skepticism is now spilling out into the public, particularly onto Maureen Callahan's podcast. Shout out Maureen. We report that a middle school classmate of yours shared the New York Times detailed accounts of being attacked by a different teacher in several of the same locations, including at the same middle school dance, and that her accounts raise questions about your recovered memories. We interviewed more than 80 people from Amarillo. We report that in your book, you write that there was no smoking gun. There's no physical evidence. There's no tangible proof. There had been no witnesses. We report that the teacher you write about as your attacker is referred to in the book by the pseudonym Mr. Mason, and that he is described in the book with enough specificity that many readers in Amarillo have been able to discern his identity. Then they go on to actually name him. And Amy publishes that in her filing. So this guy, who worked for 35 years in the Amarillo elementary school, middle school world, went on to become vice principal. He's worked for another 30 years after Amy without incident. No one else reported anything ever. And now his name is in Amy's document. I'm still not going to say it. I feel like it's just, I hope it's too much. It's too much. It's a fascinating case. I was texting with another one, another member of the literati who was part of the yesterday. And they were like, and this is a very high profile name that was, you know, part of this whole situation. And they were like, I don't know how this works out. I don't know. Like we're all confused now. None of us want to say anything, but everybody wants resolution. I think Amy's using her money to tie this up in crazy knots until everybody loses interest in because they're just tired. I agree. She's a massive wallet. Anyway, Peter is Sam Lansky, the ghostwriter quickly. Is he, is he an above board character? I mean, I like him. I think Sam took this for a paycheck. I don't know. He wrote two great books. And I think, you know, money talks. And I think Amy Griffin probably paid more than Britney Spears paid for her book, believe it or not. Peter Davis with the call that maybe Andre Leon Talley gets an exhibit. That'll bring everybody out because they all they'll, everybody will come. And that's probably a great way to save from the Galliano embarrassment. I appreciate your time, sir. Thank you. Thank you, Billy. Peter Davis is the editor in chief of Avenue Magazine. Love you, man. So back to the fact checking letter, the New York Times sent to Amy Griffin before they published their three month investigation into the claims made by Amy and the tell in order to give her the chance to object or to clarify a plethora of claims. There's so many in here. This, the letter that they wrote her is really long. And they continue. We report that other people told us at the Times that they are alarmed that a teacher with an unblemished record has been deemed a rapist without a chance to defend himself. And he is named in this letter. We report that since the book was published, locals say they have not seen the teacher around town. So evidence that possibly he's been shamed and left. We report that neither you nor Penguin Random House would tell the Times whether the teacher or local school officials were made aware of the book or its accusations and were given a chance to respond before publication. You write about your head hitting the wall, the clang of a belt buckle on the floor being raped in the middle school bathroom, the locker room, a classroom under the bleachers with a bandana. You write of, quote, his private part in my mouth and his pubic hair on my face. You write that he beat you, dragged you on the bathroom floor, washed your mouth out with soap and assaulted you in his unlocked classroom on the night of the Austin Day 8th grade dance. You write that he told you, if you tell anyone, I'll rip your teeth out. It goes on. It's really long. Here's another part. In the first five minutes of the first MDMA session, you wrote that you said, why is he here? Referring to Mr. Mason slash. And then they put his real name in there. Remember, this is interesting because that was a private letter to Amy. Amy is the one who made it public by making it an exhibit in her opposition to, you know, Jolene's Nevada anti-slap violence. So now we have his name. You were involved in three MDMA assisted therapy sessions in total and then engaged in subsequent psychotherapy sessions with a counselor who assured you your violent memories were most likely real. Throughout the book, you acknowledge a reader's potential skepticism. You share with the reader that you were initially uncertain but came to believe in the fidelity of the retrieved memories. We report that in your book proposal, you described how MDMA helped you remember being S.A.'ed as a child by a family friend whom you cite by name. We report that the family friend is not included in the memoir, nor is that claim of assault. We report that when we contacted that family friend, he denied your claims. Remember, there are three allegations of assault. Three different people she alleges assaulted her in her life from the ages of eight until 20, give or take a few months. You write that one of your lawyers advised you not to tell the police that your recollections of being attacked were retrieved through the use of illegal psychedelics. You write that you considered bringing a civil suit but decided against it after one of your lawyers said that Mr. Mason could sue you for defamation. He certainly can now because his name, again, is in this particular letter that Amy made public unredacted. Like many book proposals, yours was accompanied by a list of people who would potentially help to promote the memoir upon publication. There were 91 names on your list, including celebrities, media industry insiders, and leaders of companies you have invested in. I've gone through that list. It is absolutely massive and big names. We report that many of those who have endorsed and promoted your book on social media are involved with businesses, charities, and political campaigns that receive financial backing from you. We report that your memoir's copyright page includes a boilerplate acknowledgement that some details have been changed to protect people's privacy. We report that our review shows that you liberally changed details. We report that, like most memoirs, this one was not fact-checked by its publisher. We report that you have financially supported an organization in Amarillo called Family Support Services. You helped pay for a soft room, it's called, where victims of sexual violence can share their stories with therapists and advocates or police officers in a comforting space. We report that, according to Michelle Shields, the organization's director of advocacy services, it was important to you that the room be ready. Before the book came out, in anticipation of the victims that would come forward with stories of abuse, Mrs. Shields said the room has not yet been used for this purpose, and that she is surprised there have not been other claims brought out by the publicity from the tell. Nothing. Some people know blank blank the actual teacher's name. This is another printing of his name. Some people know blank blank, and a few had been his students. Readers expressed support for you. Nail him right to the wall, right where he belongs. Of course, that's their instant gut reaction when the book comes out. We report that your representatives declined to share Claudia's identity. Still declining. We report that, relying on a middle school yearbook class list, we interviewed many of your middle school classmates, including some whose background and experiences match those of Claudia. We report that the similarities include the classmate grew up in what is now called the Amarillo Children's Home, which is a detail you ascribed to Claudia in your book proposal. We report that the classmate has clear memories that dovetail with central anecdotes that you write about in your book. We report that this classmate is certain that Claudia is based on her. The classmate shared with us vivid and detailed information about the abuse. We interviewed one of the classmate's adult children who said that her mother told her about the middle school abuse more than a decade ago. The classmate wonders if you were aware as a child. Well, this is interesting. The classmate wonders if you were aware as a child of the abuse that she was suffering and whether you have appropriated her experiences. We report that the night the classmate finished reading the tell, she wrote a song whose lyrics include, I feel so used. I didn't even know it was possible to steal someone's abuse. We report that as this classmate read your book, she wondered if your descriptions of being abused by a teacher in middle school were about you or they were about her. We report in the book, you write that you lent Claudia a floral poofy dress for Cotillion and that you felt joy in doing so. We report that the classmate told the time she was ultimately forbidden by the children's home from attending Cotillion, so she wore the dress to her eighth grade Austin day dance where you say this all happened. We report that you write about your own experience at this dance where you were wearing a floral poofy dress that you had borrowed. You write that you were raped that night in Mr. Mason's classroom. We report that in interviews with the times, the classmates shared a detailed story about how her own experience at that dance, about how the teacher who was abusing her created a ruse to get her to leave the dance with him and walk to a different part of the school where he assaulted her. He then, sorry for this word, ejaculated on the dress that she had borrowed from you. The classmates shared with the time specific details about returning to the dance floor, her hair disheveled, her dress soiled and smelling of sex. She said she was certain students knew why she and the teacher left and returned together, but it was not explicitly discussed. We report that she said when she returned the dress to your house, it was during a church youth group meeting and that she apologized profusely for the stain on the dress, which she said was in fact in a dry cleaning bag, but the dress had not been cleaned. She said she asked for you and her friends to pray for her so that no one would think she was a bad girl. She believed everyone understood what had taken place at the dance. Now, getting to the MDMA psychedelics that she used. We report that Rick Doblin, the country's leading advocate for the therapeutic use of MDMA, told the Times that he read multiple drafts of your book and considers it an important work. We report that you write in the book that your husband had funded research into psychedelic assisted therapy without describing the extent of the involvement. We report that he donated a million dollars to MAPS, Rick Doblin's foundation, and that you and he invested in the for-profit Lycos company, according to Dr. Doblin. We report that Dr. Doblin told the Times that memories retrieved with MDMA, which we report is the active chemical in Ecstasy or Molly, are often symbolic and that people develop stories to help them make sense of their life. From a therapeutic perspective, he told us the truth of the story is not what is important. The emotion that emerges during the therapy is real and valuable. We report that Dr. Doblin told the Times that MDMA helps people resurface frightening memories and also that people should be dubious about recovered memories. So, this is the longest letter. I mean, it must have taken Liz Egan and Katie Rossman, the writers at the New York Times, the journalists who did this three-month investigation into Amy's claims and the book, given all the people, all the big names that supported it and promoted it, that there was so much that seemed either implausible or unprovable or certainly uncorroborated. So, they send her the longest list of claims in there and it leads to where we are. It's now an exhibit. This is the confusing part. Amy chose this letter, which just casts more aspersion, shows it as an exhibit that she filed, her lawyers filed as part of her opposition to Jane Doe, Jolene Altom, trying to throw out this federal Nevada suit that is going to drain her of every dollar she's ever made. It may be the point, by the way. But anyway, by doing so, she has outed, again, the teacher by name, made public, and she's the only person to have done it. She outed Jane Doe as Jolene and now she outed Mr. Mason as... I can't say his name. I just think it's... I mean, I think about the guy, like, I'm not doing that, but Amy did it and you can look it up. That's what's crazy. So, someone's going to probably report on it. Anyway, that's what's going on right now in the world of Amy Griffin. It's a lot of back and forth in the discovery process. There still is no trial date set for either the California suit where Jane Doe is the plaintiff or the Nevada federal where Amy is the plaintiff, and that's a defamation case. 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