Minneapolis council member Michael Rainville weighs in on Waymo vote

With us here. One of the things that's happened here today, a story that we're following is a vote in the Minneapolis City Council counselors today. Council members, pardon me. We're trying to see if they could override Mayor Frey's veto of the ordinance that would essentially ban Waymo's or autonomous vehicles here in the city that passed last week on a seven to six vote. So the mayor then vetoed that ordinance and it came up again today. for an override vote they would have needed nine votes it failed so the mayor's veto now holds and all of this in an environment where the city of Saint Paul is now looking to study autonomous vehicles and in a way to learn more to see if they can get ahead of really where the train is heading where the automated car is heading, so to speak. Our producer, Grace Henry, is gonna join us here now to talk a little bit more about this. Neither one of us have ever driven or taken a ride in one of these vehicles. I'm anxious to do it just to see how they work. Yeah, me as well. I know they've been in the news quite a bit over the past couple of years. And when it was announced that they would be coming to Minneapolis at some point it was pretty big news and of course it's been a topic of discussion in the City Council but I mean we've seen lots of videos and social media of them of the cars kind of experiencing some mishaps like not driving over puddles or you know just different different kind of funny videos but yeah I'm very very curious to ride in one myself I mean it It really seems like it is the direction of the future, especially with it being in so many cities. Well, and the technology gets better and better. I have a family member who has one of the autonomous Teslas, and he swears by it. It's crazy. He said it was exactly his words. He said, Tim, it's crazy as to how accurate and how well it works. And I was kind of a non-believer, and he's kind of convinced me. So I'm not afraid to give it a try, but I'm still a little cautious. I mean, Waymo has said that Waymos demonstrate lower crash and injury rates than human drivers. So it's really, really interesting. We do have our next guest on the line. I'm going to get him set up if you want to go ahead and throw to him, Tim. All right, sounds good. Michael Rainville, Minneapolis City Council member, is joining us to talk more about this because he had to make that vote again today and joins us now live. Michael, thanks so much for taking a few moments to join us to talk about this vote today and the issue. You know, Grace and I were just talking about the fact that neither one of us have ever ridden in one of these vehicles. Michael, have you? Have you had a chance to test drive one of these or take a ride in one? No, it's on my list, and I really look forward to it. I'm excited about the safety features. Admittedly, I listened to your conversation earlier, and yes, there's some glitches, mistakes. But so far, they're a lot safer than a human-driven vehicle. I had a chance, and this is going back to the Super Bowl years, Michael. Right before the Super Bowl, 3M invited a number of us out to the MnDOT test track that's just outside of Buffalo. and um and excuse me i'm thinking uh one of our cities right along um right before you get to Saint Cloud and that's it thank you they've got a big test track out there and MnDOT was demonstrating along with 3M um an autonomous vehicle that they wanted to demonstrate along Nicollet Mall during the Super Bowl. And to show how this technology works and the 3M products and scanners that they had on board to make this autonomous. Bottom line is it snowed that day and there were flurries coming down and it didn't work. The vehicle kept stopping because the sensors up front would sense snow and it would stop right um and it didn't work um and memory serves me correctly they didn't do go through with a demonstration project um because we had snow that week but you remember Michael it was also like what 15 below zero that week too but the technology has come leaps and bounds since then i would have no problem uh getting in that demonstration vehicle again to see how they've improved it. And you may have heard the conversation I was had with Grace. I've got a family member who has a Tesla with one of these more advanced automotive driving features on it, and he swears by it. He says it works. Now, I also understand the issue that many of your fellow city council members have had with how this could take away jobs. And that's a critical discussion that's been having. But I want you to tell us about the vote here today and how that transpired. And was it the same number of votes on either side, Michael? Yes. So the rules that we operate under here in Minneapolis is if a city council passes an ordinance, then it goes to the mayor's office. If he vetoes it, it takes nine votes to override that veto. So what happened was the ordinance passed seven to six. And then in two weeks since, the seven were not able to get two more votes to come to nine and override the mayor. So the veto was upheld today on a seven to five vote. One councilman was absent. And so there will not be a driver in a driverless car. Now, one of the issues has been, and this has been a big issue, that robo-taxis, especially autonomous vehicles, in relation to ride-sharing, could potentially strip away thousands of jobs in this city. so how does the city balance protecting local workers and embracing innovation because that seems to be kind of core to the discussions right now correct so part of the testimony that we heard in our public hearing were people who use service docks and they were not getting picked up by the driver drivers and single women who had very unpleasant experiences with comments from drivers we heard uh from same-sex couples had unpleasant experiences they want a choice and that's what this autonomous vehicle would give us a choice and we should offer choices you know when uh cars started to take away horse-drawn carriages and the buggy whip factory workers. The history of innovation is that we have jobs training programs, and people have to have that initiative to find a new career when their existing career goes away, or if you want more money. I've been paying into Social Security since I was 13 years old, and when I look back at all the jobs I had, I always moved on when I wanted to make more money. So where does this issue go next? Well, it's dead. You cannot offer, once the mayor vetoes it and it's upheld, you cannot offer the same ordinance. Now, I'm sure we'll see some type of other ordinance for protection of workers. But again, you know, as a city, as a government, do we pick and choose who succeeds, who has job security, who doesn't? That's really not our function. But the bigger issue is how are these cars regulated well and that will go to the state yeah you anticipated my next question because Saint Paul is going to look at this now and and possibly down the road come up with their own rules and then i see a framework where we may have a patchwork of different regulations or ordinances governing autonomous vehicles across the state at what point does the state legislature have to get involved here Michael well they have to they tried last year in fact the governor had a task force it was probably in response to the super bowl because the task force uh gave recommendations in 2019 the super bowl was here in 2018 and it's just been sitting around now with technology because Waymo was up in Grand Marais last winter doing tests and if you can have a driverless car in Grand Marais Minnesota you could probably have one anywhere in the world true there right so now it's you know to your point Tim It's really a state issue because, you know, what does Waymo do? Do they pick up a customer in Golden Valley and when they hit the Minneapolis city limits, a driver is standing there to get in the car and be with them? You know, it just doesn't make sense. You have to have a seamless experience for the passenger and for whatever company is there. You have to have rules that apply to really the nine-county area. All right. Great discussion. Michael Rainville, Minneapolis City Council member. Hey, thanks so much for joining us today, Michael. It's always great to have you on the show. Anytime. All right, you take care now.