Echoes of Us: Mother turns grief into mission for online safety

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Echoes of Us. I'm Marietta Udayo. And I'm Sarah Bien-Aimé. You know, Echoes of Us is all about those in the community who inspire us and the culture that shapes us. Okay. I think next episode, Sarah's going to get it down. It's okay. I'm totally fine. We're still working on it. We're workshopping it. We might change it. Well, we have a very special guest here in the studio. Her name is Tammy Rodriguez. She's a mom. She's also a social media harms advocate. she's done a lot of work kind of advocating for you know how social media can definitely have a big impact on your life and she has her story Tammy how are you today I'm doing well thank you thank you so much for having me here well for people who you know haven't had the pleasure to meet you speak a little about what you do and what you're passionate about sure I'm Tammy Rodriguez I'm in Connecticut I came from East Longmeadow, Mass and I have two beautiful daughters um destiny and selena um i work in a medical office here in springfield so what made you move to connecticut you were in east long meadow chicopee all of that yes yes i'm just for a change um just for looking for a different area to be in and raise the girls in okay and this is not your first time um well you said you kind of don't do really do podcasts but it's not your first time speaking up about you know things that matter to you talk a little bit about your family Sure. So we lost my daughter, Selena, in 2021 to social media harms. She took her own life. And it wasn't until after the fact is when I found out what was going on once we had attorneys involved. So that has thrown me into the social media harms awareness and advocacy world that I never knew I would be in. so sorry for your loss thank you so much thank you social media it's it's a big factor in teens and in young adults um what do you think specifically is something that people should look out for on social media what are what are certain things that um could be harmful here sure uh there's so many harms selena unfortunately it was a social media addiction which then led to um sleep deprivation um she had an eating disorder she began self-harming um she was doing things that she never would have done before. She learned a lot from the internet. But it was after the fact when the attorneys got into her social media accounts is when we found out that she was also being sexually exploited online through an Instagram account. I had no idea that she had. It was hidden. Everything was hidden. All her photos were hidden. And it really broke our family. What was her relationship with her sister, your other child? Yes, very close. They were 13 years apart, but extremely close. I mean, talk about anything was on the table for conversation. Sometimes I go, oh boy, here we go. But just not this. Selena didn't feel comfortable enough having that conversation. Did Destiny know of anything or witness any signs, anything around of time? We knew something was going on, but we didn't know what. Selena changed from being a sweet, quiet, very helpful girl to someone we didn't even know. Her personality changed 100%. Her physical appearance changed. She became very aggressive, very moody. One time I was driving and I wouldn't give her my phone when her phone died. And she grabbed the top of my arm and left a bruise that lasted for about a month and all because i wouldn't give her my phone and we were only like two minutes away from home that was how bad her addiction was tammy what kept you going during this time um i can only i can only imagine how difficult that would be um what kind of kept you going and and kind of kept you afloat um since losing her um well selena was very spicy that's how I like to explain her or describe her I should say she oh my goodness you never knew what she was going to say you never knew what she was going to come out wearing how she was going to have makeup on but she was always for the underdog she if there was somebody down and out Selena was there for them and when I found out what was going on when the whistleblower Francis Haugen came out with everything from Meta, I knew I needed to do something because Selena would have done something. And it seems that you transformed that into your passion and then that kind of took you to different places. Can you kind of walk us through maybe just the beginning? You can start with the beginning of how you got into this advocacy work. Sure. So when we first lost her, I didn't really understand what happened. We knew that she took her own life. We knew, you know, in that way what happened, but what made the switch happen that pushed her to that level we thought maybe bullying we thought um you know just how she felt about herself her self-confidence was so bad at that point because she was comparing herself to everybody on the internet everywhere um so i'm sorry can you ask yeah no i'm sorry yeah no problem um kind of walk us through how you started um kind of getting into the advocacy work um it seems that you you know very passionate about it um you kind of have this drive for it as well yes yes sorry so I one night I was up and I was scrolling on Facebook and I saw an ad for this attorney's office and I said eh you know come on really so I clicked on it and it was about social media harms for children and it it was like reading Selena's last days or like her last two months of her life I mean chaos doesn't even cover what we were going through with her um i mean just everything that it said on that list so you know i i did i clicked you know and i've looked for information from them and i heard back from them the following day and we actually ended up being the first family who filed suit against the social media companies in the country were the first ones and we don't do it for financial gain which i like to put out there because unfortunately many people think that's why we do this for the accountability and with these big companies that's the only thing that they seem to listen to is when their pockets get hit a little bit um but with my attorney he filed our our case on January 20th 2022 by February he had me out there meeting congressmen meeting lawmakers i was there listening to them after January 6th what they went through being in there in that building um and then again i got out there i was there for the Supreme Court hearing when Zuckerberg had to give us an apology and i always have to do it in air quotes because it wasn't an apology at all um but all of us parents there together that was our first time we ever met in person and we have a band of parents across the country and now across in the world across the world i should say um we've come together because we've all lost our children or our children have been harmed very detrimentally due to social media harms and through these parents we keep each other going um i mean when i'm having a bad day i reach out when they're having a bad day they reach out because we know what each other's going through and when these things are going on in politics when you see it on tv when you see these votes when you see congress is or you know the senate is being shut down early these are things that have to do with our kids and what we're trying to get past in the you know through congress through laws and it's really it's hard but that's what's going to keep us going is because we're going to keep fighting thank you for sharing we have to go on break tammy but i just want to say you are strong you are a strong woman and all that she's talking about you guys we will have more pictures to show with the next segment but just hold on we'll be right right back you're watching Echoes of us all right everybody we are back with Tammy Rodriguez uh a heavy a jam-packed first segment there um again we just want to thank you for sharing your story um this there's a reason why uh you decided to come here um this is your first time locally um kind of sharing sitting down and sharing your story uh can you speak a little bit about that and why yes um so it took me um just over five years now because we lost her in July of 2021 um to come out and tell her story in our local area i guess it was easier to tell it on a national platform where maybe somebody in the area might see us um than it was to do it right here local where i know people will see us but it's important because i need to tell her story where Selena's peers are uh you know she was in Enfield schools when it happened i need to make sure her peers know what's going on and that they're okay that's something i've been so worried about with them and that's why i want to tell her story locally and i love that she was the one who filled out the form to tell it it wasn't no one else she took it on her own to fill it out so thank you for doing that as well and i wanted to point out the pin that you're wearing um it's very very nice um how often are you wearing it i'm sure you're probably wearing it often as well Yes, I wear it just about every day. Everywhere I go, you know, people will ask and I start off by saying, you know, it's a sad story, you know, so it's not a surprise to them. But then I get many people who will listen and, you know, thank me for telling them the story and telling them what's going on for their grandkids or, you know, somebody in their family or something. Is it hard to like hold in the tears? Because I hear it in your voice. So is it hard when you're telling them the stories, you're telling them more about her? Yes, it is hard. I think I've kind of realized that I have, I don't want to say a script, but kind of what I'm okay with sharing. And then you can notice when I go on to certain topics that it gets a little harder for me and you'll hear my voice shake a little. But I think from telling her story, I've been able to kind of get together what I need to say. yeah yeah i wanted to kind of go back a little bit uh to what you were mentioning about filing those suits against those large companies that's a big deal you were just talking about being face to face with Mark Zuckerberg i mean that is that is i mean what was going through your mind and how did you feel kind of speaking your mind um well that day um you know it just means watching him testify but just to sit there and know he is lying blatantly to everyone in the room the documents are there it's not like they're not there to prove what they've been doing all along how they were targeting kids Selena's age that 8 to 12 years old he called them herd animals because they're easy to persuade so i sat there looking at him thinking all these thoughts and just hoping that harm never comes to his kids that came to all of our kids because there had to have at least 15 to 20 parents in there all survivor parents watching him have to testify and all he did was shuffle his papers all day um trying to you know just delay delay delay did that make you think differently of people who have or founders or CEOs or did you already kind of did you already kind of think that this could be something that um people who you know own companies would be how they would be acting i don't think i realized it was to the extent that it is it's bad like the evil is so bad and it runs so deep in these CEOs and they don't care it's all about profits over lives for them and Zuckerberg said our kids are only worth 270 each he said that and i'm sorry my daughter was worth more money than you could ever count all of these kids the kids who are on there now who are still being manipulated you know they're just worth so much more than that i'm sure it was helpful though to have those parents around you and to have that community can you speak a little bit more about that community because that is something that was important that you noted yes yes oh they're my backbone honestly um you know of course my family as well but outside of them my backbone um i'm part of a group called the Archwell Foundation um which actually was organized by Prince Harry and Meghan Markle I've met them in person they are amazing yes um amazing I can't even put into words um when when I meet him and I he hugs us and he speaks with us and he knows our kids stories before he gets there to the event I see what his mother must have been and like that's who I see with him um he's very kind he looks in your eyes, Meghan Markle Oh my God, amazing. Amazing woman. Being in these different groups and speaking on these different topics, what are you guys thinking needs to be done now? Like more needs to be done. Legislation needs to be passed immediately. You know, there's one mom, her daughter would have turned 30 on Friday, I believe it was. Her name's Grace. And her, she has been going to Washington for, I think, 16 years now, if I'm not mistaken. that's how long ago her daughter died and nothing's been changed, nothing, we're still here we're still losing kids, you know so if legislation isn't passed it's it's not going to get any better because these companies are not going to make the changes on their own, even going to, um, you know found liable and having to pay as much as they had to pay in these trials that have already gone through, he's still not making the changes like he's supposed to, um, so if the laws are passed that is going to be a big help. The Senate version of COSA is the strongest version. It carries a care of duty. And that's what we need to have because these companies need to be held accountable. They're one of the only industries that cannot be held accountable right now because they're hidden or they hide behind Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act. Wow. Yes. Have you reached out to lawmakers to help with this Oh, yes. That's one thing that my attorney has been amazing with is getting us there. We've been to hearings. I was at a hearing back in March and my attorney spoke. He told Selena's story. Ted Cruz was the head. One of this committee hearing that we had. But I just don't feel like they're, they're willing. Yeah, that they're listening and that they're willing to stop bending the knee to these CEOs. yeah we are out of time but that went by really fast oh my goodness but we have so much more to talk about with Tammy Rodriguez, I will be right back hey everyone we're back with Tammy Rodriguez um let's talk a little bit about what you like to do in your free time I know that gardening was something that you mentioned to us, yes, but give us, give us the lowdown, sure, um, so gardening is something I never thought I would get into and it was after I lost Selena, um, I think it was the following year I decided they have a community garden in Enfield, that's where she used to go to a playground right next to it, so it's like my peaceful space that i can kind of be with her you know and feel like she's there and our symbol for her is butterflies and there's always two that come around me every time i'm there so you know i may look crazy talking to butterflies but that's okay you're not crazy so wait how often do you garden then um i try to go every day okay during the um you know the summer yeah yeah yes and so with that being said as well um you have all you have free time as well and you like to relax and enjoy that what would you tell other parents who are trying to enjoy their free time as well or and are probably going through the same thing you're going through yes um so you mean like what to watch out for what to watch out for or how to you know still grieve but then be okay but then also enjoy life yes okay definitely understand um so one thing i've learned through these parent networks is that it's okay to grieve and laugh um i saw my nephew be able to accept that i watched it like happen uh he hadn't kind of worked through any part of the grieving process yet. And he was with me when I was in Los Angeles. And I saw him get to be with these parents who we all grieve and laugh together. We're at dinner, we're laughing, you know, we understand each other that it's okay to do that. Yes, we lost our child. Selena would never want me to be sad all the time. She hated when we were upset or cried. She hated it. So now even if I get into a mode and i'm driving and i'm crying something funny happens some crazy song comes on and i'm like okay selena here we go but now let's look at the fact of what to look for you know if a parent is trying to figure out if their child is going through something similar like i mean i feel like people go like on beside i'm definitely a culprit of this like going on social media and just getting lost you know so yeah i definitely want to hear your perspective Sure. So with kids or really with anyone, you can see the personality change. Like with Selena, again, hindsight is 20-20. I watched that change. We have a picture of her from the beginning when she was making like silly dance videos on my account that I let her save to the drafts compared to the last ones that she had made. And unfortunately, the last Snapchat video she put up was of her overdosing on the pills, which I was not alerted to until the following day. So these are the type of things we have a problem with with these companies that they're, you know, they could have alerted me to. But hindsight's 20-20. So watch for those personality changes. Watch for them to start, if they start self-isolating. do not do not allow a tv or sorry a computer or a phone or any electronic devices behind a closed door that's when the biggest things happen that's when the predators are able to get to the kids and they're able to groom them the way that they want to um please look into what grooming is teach your kids about grooming and be very upfront raw use the wording the terminology that these people use don't sugarcoat it because these people don't sugarcoat for your kids it's very interesting um because i recently did a story it was about um how we're in a literacy crisis um so even just thinking about maybe i'm not a parent but um limiting screen time yes or like um i know um one of my mom friends she doesn't let i think it's just um no uh electronics either during the week or weekend one of those um and doing more reading and doing more actual activities that youth, you know, youth should be doing when they're a kid. So what do you think about that as well? Yeah, no, I think that we need to get our kids doing more things. Actually, when I was at the garden cleaning it up for the end of the season yesterday, there were a bunch of kids at the park and they were playing and they were playing hide and go seek. And they came by me and said hi. And I told them that I was proud of them, that they were out there playing and doing things that kids are supposed to do not inside the house on their electronics. And, you know, they all gave me a thumbs up and they were all you know happy about that and i just said great job you know because kids need to know that they they don't have to do these things they don't have to because their friends are go outside have fun get that air yeah and if people want to keep up with you tammy yes um how can they do then how can they join your fight here okay um i'm on social media um you know i use it for my advocacy use it on their own platforms um but yes i'm you know if you search for me tammy rodriguez uh if you were to search for selena rodriguez enfield um you can read more about what we've done um more about her story well we really thank you for um choosing echoes of us to be a platform that you're comfortable to share your story um because i can again we can only imagine that it's not easy to talk about it and you did a lovely job um sharing i'm gonna be checking in on my nieces and my little cousin i feel like now i'm gonna be even more aware i say i'm that adult that kids are gonna be like oh no no get this one out of the room don't let him talk to don't let her talk to my mom now you know we gotta we gotta really even for ourselves we gotta hold ourselves accountable too so we thank you so much Tammy um and that's another episode of Echoes of us everyone um next week we have a doctor yeah maternal yeah midwife yeah she's a good friend here at 22 News um so that's all for today um you're watching Echoes of Us and we're gonna do a wide shot um say hi oh you want to say something else yes um so if people sorry if people want more um information also if they follow scrolling to death scrolling with the number two death Nikki amazing she's covered this since the beginning and she was there for every day of the trial and she will tell you everything there is about social media harms if you follow her anywhere online you heard and you'll hear it all day yeah every week thank you