Is This The End For Discounted Bikes？ ｜ The Global Mountain Bike Show Ep.16

Rich has endorsed it. No. Official endorsement. No, don't stitch me up like that, Don. These pro riders don't get paid enough. And when you see pro riders trying to make a bit more money, it's not always received that well either. Got younger riders who are looking up to these guys and they literally live off of every word that they say. Well, we're seeing them pop up more and more, aren't we? Literally. Very good. Great little pun in the middle. Popping up. Welcome to this week's Global Mountain Bike Show. I'm joined by Fergus over there in the corner. Lovely t-shirt you've got on there. Thanks, mate. And Rich, how's it going, chaps? Very well, thanks, mate. How are you? All right, very good. So this week, we've got some interesting stuff. We're getting into geography. We're talking about where is the best place to live if you're a mountain biker, which I think is quite interesting. We're lucky we get to travel quite a lot. And I do have a short list of places that... I would definitely live in places I wouldn't live. And it all revolves around where is good for riding bikes, I suppose. And I guess we are all products of our environments and we all have turned out to be mountain bikers because where we live has a certain amount of decent riding around. Agreed, yeah. But also, I think... We've all been to Whistler and Squamish, been lucky enough to go there. And they are the dreamy places. And an awful lot of people have moved there, kind of up sticks, move themselves and their families to these places because of the world-class riding that is there. And I think it's quite an interesting thing because yes, you know, it seems quite an obvious thing for pro riders to do. There are plenty of pros that live there. There's also quite a few sort of lifestyle people that do this as well because they want to live in this place. Where do you think fits the bill for these best places to live if you're a mountain biker? As you just said, the whole Whistler, Vancouver, Squamish, Pemberton area, you've got Vancouver Island, is incredible, isn't it? It's unbelievable riding. I think what draws people in is not just the riding. I think that's what's quite important is the whole outdoor lifestyle that goes with it, that surrounds it. Whistler is certainly up there. From my side, it's got to be Queenstown. I can't, that place is unbelievable. But again, for not just the riding, it's also for the community that I think are there. You've got a really good community of riders. But again, it has such a focus on outdoors lifestyle, but it's also got within probably an hour. of Queenstown. You've got four bike parks. You have like an insane amount of riding. I think New Zealand as a whole certainly fits the bill, doesn't it? Like I did Nelson and that's very much similar. One of the largest cycle clubs in the Southern Hemisphere with over 3,000 members. Yeah, it's massive. What I think obviously, you know, compared to the rest of the world, New Zealand is quite remote. I can see how, obviously if you've got Vancouver down the road, you can work in Vancouver and live just up the road. In fact, just outside of Vancouver, I saw some news like there's Grouse Mountain and Cypress Mountain, I think. Cypress, yeah. So there's all these other riding spots. Obviously, that is the North Shore. That's where North Shore is from. So there always has been, well, there is a big heritage of mountain biking in those hills. But now there is more and more places to ride. And actually, funnily enough, when I was in Squamish, there's lots of people saying it's... It's becoming more and more expensive. It's almost like, you know, it's not just mountain biking because it is big for climbing and all sorts, but it's like becoming gentrified a bit because everyone's going there. It's becoming too expensive and it's just, it's broadening. So people are going to the island and Powell River and places like this apparently. I'm like, there's a huge amount of riding around that world anyway. It's monstrous, isn't it? But yeah, there's a lot of people moving there for their overall lifestyle. But I think, obviously, with Queenstown, it's a big commitment. You've got to know that you want to live in New Zealand for your average person. It's flipping ages, isn't it? It's so far away. You've got to really love mountain biking and the outdoors. But the exact same thing, like my wife and I discussed it, and we were like, oh, we'd move here in a heartbeat if it was... 10 hours closer, but it's, you know, a full day, it's just never going to happen. But on that note, also, all of us live in the UK, I would say, in pretty... In-demand places for mountain biking, right? I guess so. I mean, the Mendips is high up there, boys. I'm not going to lie. But it's how we've ended up where we are. It is, yeah. Funnily enough, I went to the local motocross track last week and Jordan Williams was there. So he's the current UCI downhill leader in the overall. Interestingly, from the southwest, not far off where I live. Yeah, it's just sort of all connected in a way. Yeah, and he's just moved near to where I live. And there's Charlie Hatton moved up there, former downhill world champion. You've got... Joe Breeden, who's from around the area. Joe Smith. Joe Smith, yeah. You've got the Athens, who aren't far down the road. Tarny's not a million miles away, I believe. Yeah, exactly. So there's this sort of, you know... The circumference of, I don't know, 50 miles where there's a lot of really good riders. Like Jordan said, he's moved there for the bike parks. So there's Dovey and Rev. So he's got, you know, the training facilities he needs to be a pro, which I think is, again, it's quite a commitment. But, you know, it's almost like where I live is a good place to ride. I wouldn't say it was world-class, but there's a really thriving scene of riders and racers. And that's what draws them probably more than the actual quality of the riding. I think it's almost like an underdog story. I mean, we're talking a bit more UK-specific at the moment, but the UK is not blessed with these big mountains and chairlift-equipped locations that a lot of the rest of the world has, but it does have a plucky attitude. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? It does. What about these other hotspots? So if you're a downhill racer, the Cote d'Azur, there's a lot of really fast racers, not just current ones, but former ones, have come from a really small area there, obviously a lovely Mediterranean lifestyle with lots of good riding. But there's, I think, a Finale, not so far away as well. Bellingham, just over the border from Vancouver, is a really big hotspot. I know people like Jill Kintner, Bryn Atkinson, there's a really good riding area just around there. Yeah. But I think this is going to be quite a controversial one. Curveball. Yeah, go on. Bentonville, which is... Agreed. There's hardly any elevation, but what it lacks for in that, it's got a plucky attitude. And I would say, you know, if you're looking for really technical trails, there aren't as many as the other places we've talked about. But if you want greens and blues and really fun trails, you've never seen a town that's built around these things. And what that does for the riding community, like if you're just an enthusiastic mountain biker, that could be a brilliant place to do it. A couple of kids, honestly, I couldn't, recommend that place I think is perfect for it but it's like the immediate town is great the trail network the culture the way it's all connected but obviously now further afield they are linking up these bigger zones and building I think they've realized that you know they had these greens blues maybe a few reds this great sort of yeah idea of what they have but But actually, they want to. up their game and attract more advanced riders should we say or provide for more advanced riders. So now I can't remember Bike Park Ozarks is it called I think? I think you're right, yeah. Bike Park Ozarks so it's lift assist they built a ski lift. I mean they ain't short of a penny out there. They've got a few quid like. So Rich it is the mountain bike capital of the world. Rich has endorsed it. No! Official endorsement. No, don't stitch me up like that Don. Don't do that to me. You know what? I looked into the sort of demographics of races because I know we're talking about everything here, like, you know, amateurs and race as well. But if you're particularly looking at cross-country, you know, Switzerland is still the hot spot for World Cup races because of the alpine nature of the place, I suppose. And they can keep time when they've got chocolate. I don't know if the chocolate helps that. The money. Yeah, where's that money come from, Rich? I'm not asking that. I just said it got a few quid as well. France, and actually Britain, has got a lot of cross-country races. Obviously, the terrain you need for cross-country racing is kind of not as specific, maybe, as a downhill race. No, I think more places can get away with it. Yeah, so I think it's an interesting sort of thing where people can design their whole lives around riding their bikes, and I suppose I have quite a lot. To a degree, I'd say we're all guilty of that here. I live where I do, one, because it's near all my family, which is lovely. I'm from there, but it also has good riding. I can ride from the front door, very fortunately. I've moved progressively further and further west towards good trails. Away from your family. Yeah, actually, yeah. I think I'm four hours away now. Oh, wow. But I have trails on my doorstep, which is fantastic. But again, it's like you... Obviously, like you say, we're in a luxury position. We've done it for a living and also we do it for a job. So it makes sense that we're somewhere where we can ride lots and obviously, luckily, our partners are very, very understanding. And you're doing your part to gentrify the Forest of Dean as well. I'm trying pretty hard, yeah. Yeah, cool. Where's the next step west? I guess that is Wales. It'd be with you, mate. I'm coming. I think Vancouver, if that's all right for me. I know. Right, into a bit more of a business news. I know we can be at risk of turning into a mountain bike business podcast. But last week, we did talk about some sad news about one of the bigger businesses. Accel Group, wasn't it? And the realities of that, obviously, with a lot of people losing their jobs, which is obviously really shocking for a lot of households, a lot of families. But actually, this news, things don't seem to have turned around ever so much in a week. Giant have given us some really positive news. Giant are one of the biggest manufacturers of bikes in the world. And they've actually had really good turnaround. They said in the second quarter of 2026 brought a significant improvement. Net profit increased by staggering 234% year over year. And more important than that is the improving margins. And this is important because it shows that it's no longer about cutting costs, but also about rebuilding normal business operations. So, green shoots from one of the biggest manufacturers, if not the biggest manufacturers in the world. We're hoping that this might be the start of a turnaround and more positive news. Yeah, a few bits to talk about here, I suppose, isn't it? Because one, Giant are a company humongous enough that they can weather certain storms, the ongoing storm, I suppose. Obviously, it's great that they are... showing on the up because the second point is that they make bicycles for a lot of other people. So that's... Go on. Well, the last I'd heard, it was probably a couple of years ago at Sea Otter actually where they'd got into a massive hole where one of these other big bike brands owed them a huge amount of money, a staggering amount of money and they couldn't pay it basically and that put Giant at a big risk. Yeah, knock on effect, right? Exactly. So it sounds like, you know, things have ironed out. The stock has gone. So we've had this huge overstock since COVID. So that problem is dealt with. Agreed. And can you imagine how many bikes that might be for someone this big? Yeah, right? Yeah, I mean, it is a really positive sign. It doesn't, I don't think it sort of indicates by any means that we're out of the deep end yet, right? Well, considering last week's show where, you know, from one week to the next, things weren't looking great. But hopefully that'll turn things around. But to try and be a bit more positive, right? Yeah. I mean, yeah, we'll see how these things progress. Yeah. Yeah, hopefully more good news. But also, there was something else in the news last week. So if you heard of North Performance Supplement. I have now. So this is a brand that launched with a whole load of famous co-owners, which I think is quite an interesting concept. It's not the first of these type of brands we've seen launched, but there's a lot of famous names associated with it as co-owners. And it, you know, I'm not a huge business owner, but I don't know enough about these things. I'm not a huge business expert either, sadly. But there's people like Danny McCaskill, Brandon Semenuk, Brett Reeder, Tillie Seagrave, Luke Bruni. But also there's a whole load of surfers, snowboarders. You've got Robbie Madison, Tyler Berriman. You've got Chris Burkhardt. Brodie Jenner? Is Brodie Jenner a famous name in your house? I've heard the Jenner name, so I'm assuming this must be- Is that the middle one or is it the oldest one? I don't know. It's developed by a doctor, so the supplements, but it makes me think, because this news was posted on one of the popular bike websites and there was mixed comments, I've got to say, with a lot of people saying these riders will stick their names on anything. Which I think, I can almost understand that sentiment. But on the same website, you'll see comments saying these pro riders don't get paid enough. And the prize money at Rampage or the World Cups is not enough. These pro riders deserve more. When you see pro riders trying to make a bit more money, it's not always received that well either. Yeah, it's a rock and a hard place sometimes, isn't it? I suppose it's the thought process of those riders maybe people put under scrutiny. But I mean, in this instance, I would fully go for make hay while the sun shines. A rider's career is finite. Night-night. Night-night. Night-night. The time they can make as much money as possible is also finite. As long as they're confident in what they're putting their name to and it doesn't, you know, make cash. I guess the supplement world is slightly... Grey area? Well, I don't know enough about that. Yeah, that's what I mean. I don't know enough about the product or that world, but like... But let's, yeah, say that, you know, even down the vanilla end of supplements, that's not a bad thing to put your name to. But even then, you would hope that the riders and these companies will have put their due diligence into knowing this thing is a good product. I think that's what I get nervous about is that there are... Yes, as a rider, you want to be promoting things and obviously make some money while you can. But I think that... There are definitely riders out there who put their names to things without, you know, they haven't, they definitely haven't had taken the time to try if it's a supplement. They haven't done their research into the supplement. They'll promote it for a couple of months, be like, this thing's amazing. Make a quick buck, get out of it. Now. On some things, I'm like, yeah, make some money. But certainly with supplements and things where we were talking about, if you're promoting it and you've got younger children or you've got younger riders who are looking up to these guys and they literally live off of every word that they say. And I was guilty of that when I was 16, saw Sam Hill with energy drink companies and I would drink all of the energy drinks. Because Sam Hill had them, you know, and that was, and I think that lots of people hang off of those words. And so you need to understand that and then be, obviously understand, be careful when you're doing it. Yeah, I've said this before that I don't love, I mean, you know, people like Rebel and Monster have done lots of great things mountain biking, but I also don't love the fact That this stuff is really promoted. Those weren't the words you used, Neil. I mean, I don't... Those weren't the words you used. I don't like... I don't drink Red Bull. I don't like it. But I don't like the way it's pushed down the throat of everyone and anyone. Yeah. You know, no matter the age. So it's a... And also, where do you draw the line is part of the problem. I've ridden for teams in my downhill days that were sponsored by tyre brands that I really didn't want to use. But if I wanted paying... I had to sign to that team and we used different tyres and that's the same problem, really. You're taking money from something that you may not 100%, I'm not saying these guys don't, but in my case, I didn't really believe in those tyres, but I had to take the money out of them. Hey, if you want to make a living. I think that, come back to your point of like these people that pipe up when they want to see riders make more money. I think, I don't want to go on off a tangent, isn't it? But I think that's an area they'd rather just see organisers paying out what riders deserve, isn't it? We're talking about prize money and things like that, right? Yeah. But that's a whole other avenue that we could get lost down. What wouldn't, if you, if say, um, let's say, like a rich, a vape company came to you with 50,000 pounds, would you take that? Do they make a cider flavoured one? But yeah. I mean, where do we draw the line? No, I mean, you have to make a decision yourself. I ain't signing up to a vape company anytime soon. What about a Turkish surgery that could promise? Yes. Why is it teeth? Yeah. Yeah. I'll sign me right up. Sign me right up. I'll get out my personal email now. All right, okay. I'm not suggesting where I draw my line, but I guess I'd have to see how much money anyone was offering. The local dentist. Yeah, true. I'll take that. Yeah. Right, joined by Owen. Owen, would you promote an alcohol company for, say, 50 grand? I mean, if it's a nice one, yeah. If it's like a nice single malt, like a Laphroaig, something like that, that'd be great. Or a Cronenberg. I mean, have they got a gluten-free one? I don't... It's a funny world, isn't it? You think mountain bikers probably generally drink more beer than the average demographic, but it's not really promoted massively, is it? It isn't. Oscar Blues Brewery sponsored Nicola Malali. Yes, Nicola Malali, yeah. I mean, it's a risky business, isn't it, though? I'd take a Thatcher's helmet, for sure. Gambling, cigarettes and drinking to kids. So maybe we should steer clear of it. We are not sponsored by any drink companies. Oh, we've got you, Ings. We are going to, well, apparently we're going to debate wearing body armour and where that fits, because there's obviously been a lot of chat from the downhill stuff that we talked about a while ago with airbag protection, and actually it turns out that those inflatable airbags... In certain ski categories, they are mandatory, which I think is really interesting because there's definitely been comments since our chat about how these systems could or should become mandatory in downhill mountain bike racing. And I see no reason why not, other than maybe the cost of it. But for pro racing, that could be a reasonable thing to expect that all riders wear this stuff. Well, we're seeing them pop up more and more, aren't we? Literally. Literally, we actually... Very good. Great little pun in the middle. Popping up. Well... The algorithm's working, isn't it? You've got it tuned. You've got it clicked to chat show mode. I do, I do. Yeah, there you go. Very good. Bruni said it sort of drastically reduced the amount of injuries he might have sustained in one of his crashes. Yep. We've seen it with Pierre. Jordan Williams has went off the other day. When he came hurtling into the finish arena, didn't it? Also handy if, like, you know, when I raced in Brazil, the race finished on the beach. So if you overshot the beach... Oh, my God. You know, you need a bit of inflation. Yeah. Good inflation. We often talk in business about bad inflation, but that's a good inflation, isn't it? That's a good inflation. Oh, God. What's the question about protection? Well, should it be... I mean, we're seeing it become more and more sort of... It's compulsory within racing, but where do we draw the line? With everyday mountain bikes we're talking about. Yeah, because I'm going to throw this out there. So I obviously never wear gloves unless it's really weird. Don't look at my palms. I never wear them, but I crashed the other day. And went over the bars in a video. That'll happen, yeah. Yeah. Then what happened? Well, I put my hands out to stop my face from torpedoing into the ground. I cut my finger, but I bust the knuckle. And the comments went, wouldn't have happened if you wore gloves. Really? Well, did wearing gloves stop your hands breaking? Yeah, like, oh, well, you know, this is why you wear gloves. Wouldn't have happened if you wore gloves. I've dislocated two fingers wearing gloves. However, I do know someone who de-gloved their hands. I'm assuming not wearing a glove on a BMX track basically ripped the palm, you know, not off, but flapping, de-gloved, which was obviously very complicated and not a very nice thing to go through. No. Very extreme case. And he did not wear gloves, and ever since that does. So, I mean, I rarely go without gloves because of that story, basically. But a BMX track is a different... I think that nails it though, it is. It is, it's just different, yeah. Briefly, you talked about how for downhill skiing, and I think this is a big thing, I've got into trouble with commenters for saying kind of like less is more in protection. I'm all for wearing a helmet because my brain's not that good, so I really need to protect it. And you only get one. Apparently so, yeah. There's one up there. So, and it doesn't grow back or something like that. Anyway, the point being is that I'm not saying don't go without protection. Wear what you need to wear to feel comfortable, The thing and point I keep trying to make that is lost in lots of the comms is because what I think is mountain biking and what I'm doing is very different from what everyone else is doing. So if you're riding, you're riding really gnarly stuff and really steep stuff, and that's your mountain biking, pad up. You're like, yeah, just do it. But the cross-country and downhill skiing thing, here's my point. We've looped around. Yeah. So cross-country skiing, still skiing. You still go quite fast on the downhills, relative terms. Flat out. You can, yeah, and you're in, like, scale-electric-style slot cars. It's great. You're just trapped in. So you just hope that there's no gravel. How hard can it be? Exactly, that's why it's so fun. Anyway, the point being is for that, you don't have to wear loads of protection. And mountain biking is this broad spectrum where you've got people doing really fast downhill stuff. They're not racing, but they're going for it. Then you've got people who are, it's not gravel, because obviously that's a dirty word and upsets people too. But we are like, looking at a map, we're going to go, oh, I'm going to ride off-road all the way over there. So we've got this broad church. And what I do is... Very much on a flat bar gravel side. I'm okay with calling that mountain biking. And for me, if I wear a helmet and I take loads of water so I'm not going to dehydrate, I'm all right. Yeah, I suppose that's a whole separate point because the whole dehydration, heat stroke thing, it's silly, isn't it? It's about protection. I mean, I think age, you know, there were times when I would just wear knee pads and gloves. For downhill racing, where... That was kind of the thing at the time, although some racers did always wear full body armour, you know, your Fabian Borels. However, the age has changed me where there's a bluegrass to this amazing thing called the Venture Vest that has basically become this thing I wear an awful lot for mountain biking and for now on motorbike because it's this really usable... You can see your hydration bladder in the back. You've got pockets for all your tools and stuff. It's mega comfortable. And actually, you know, I've worn that two or three days this last week because... It's so comfortable and usable, whereas in the past, you know, very, very rarely used back protectors. Do you think that's an evolution of protection then by the sounds of it? A bit, but also now I'm like... Think of those Danish suits we used to wear back in the day. Yeah. Even I had one of them. Yeah, they were so big and bulky. They were really good. They were. They were very protective. But yes, that's true. Um But now I'm like, you know, I'm slower than I've ever been. I'm also wearing more pads than I ever have and it feels fine. For the type of riding I'm doing. You talked about, back in the day, sort of racers always used the shell suits. I think it was Matty, in an anglicised way, I think it's Lycanon, but Leo Koinon, I think he is in Finnish. you. Correct me where I'm wrong, because I'm sure the intent will. He, I think, used to wear full shell suit, as it was, so the full, like, superhero suit for racing. And then for, I think it was, no, I lie, for practice, and then for, maybe it was qualies and then race runs, he only wore, like, the minimum that he could get away with. Maybe, yeah. Because of a mental thing where he'd go faster. He also did crash a heck of a lot. Yeah, he was **** the best. He had a lot of bad injuries. Yeah, really bad ones, yeah. Yeah, he really was. Sam Hill used to show up, race run at Worlds with nothing. No pads, nothing. Yeah. Which is a mindset thing, for sure. But I don't, you know, nowadays, you see the top racers, their every bit is covered nowadays, pretty much. Do we think that's because tracks have got gnarlier, speeds have got faster, bikes got more capable? I think it's a mindset thing. I think nowadays... Or is it a career thing? Yeah, I think it is. You know, I was young and stupid because I did so many races where I was covered in stuff that was making racing very hard, you know, scraped to bits, did no sleep because I can't, and then I'm trying to race in agony, whereas if I'd have worn elbow pads, I would have been on top performance. So I'm just older now. Now I've got scars. Exactly. And now I don't really race. But I just don't want to be covered in these things. And I would say that's why race is doing it. Because they shouldn't be dealing with injuries all the time. You're not a very good professional if you're trying to deal with things that are avoidable. Well, I think we'll use the World Cup as an example. I mean, there are many other races out there. The World Cup seasons were eight races. What, now? Yeah. Yeah, I think it is. And all of them count towards the overall. Exactly, yeah. So if you miss one... Yeah, you're right. You are... Finn Arles has just broken his ankle, hasn't he? Yeah, and who was sitting two in the overall? Second overall. Yeah, so he's done. I mean, not saying that... I literally didn't know that. I'm not saying that, like, an ankle brace or whatever would have prevented any form of injury. Might have reduced it. Who knows? I'll tell you what is interesting, I think, as well. If I look at the majority of my friends who ride off, and it's the people who have to work for a living who wear the most pads, because if they get injured, then they can't be on the site on Monday morning, and that will make a difference. And I think that's a big thing that I see, is I see these sort of like, yeah, Yeah. sort of like superhero turtle... Turtle-clad e-bikers. Yeah, stormtroopers on a weekend. But you're right, they're probably going to work. Well, they are because they've got an e-bike, which is expensive. And also, it does make sense. Like, in terms of just, like, cutting an elbow, well, yeah, that would... It's rubbish. You lose sleep, you lose... You might get an infection. Like, sepsis is not to be messed with. So, yeah, maybe I just need to wear more armour. Maybe I need to get over myself. I don't need to think back through my previous crashes and think how they could have been avoided, probably, by wearing something that I should have worn. You see, all of my crashes could have been avoided in the most part just by feathering the brakes a bit more. Mine could have been by not hitting my head. The coward levers. I mean, that's one way of calling them. Ha, ha, ha, ha. That's like a No Fear T-shirt from the 90s. Is it? Not Roxy or Rox, whatever it was. Oh, yeah, R-O-X. Yeah, yeah. I forgot about him. Oh, God. I suppose the burning question then to the folks out there is more, less. More protection is less injuries for the grand scheme of things. Should we all be riding in more protection, more than we maybe need? Yeah, I'm definitely on board with that nowadays. Right, I've got to go glove shopping then. Get your three-quarter helmet out, Owen, for your gravel rides. And your body armour. Right, okay. All right, get shopping then. All right, well, thanks for watching this week's Global Mountain Bike Show. We'll be back next week.