Remembering the Edmund Fitzgerald

We actually managed to go into our tower camera system and pull up this shot. And it's actually a beautiful view right now. This is Paradise, Michigan. But actually, this is a very close shot of where the Edmund Fitzgerald sank 51 years ago today into Lake Superior. We know we've been commemorating this day here at Fox 6, talking a little bit about the people who might have studied this through the years. And we know that even Five decades later, people are still talking about this tragedy. We know that 29 men, all crew members on board, died. But this look right here, thanks to our meteorologist Rob Haswell for finding it and locating the exact coordinates. Again, we know the ship went down approximately 17 miles northwest of Whitefish Point, Michigan. It was found at a depth of about 535 feet of water. And I actually shared the actual GPS coordinates with... with us as well. Luckily, a much nicer forecast today on Whitefish Point, as you can see right here. But as we continue to commemorate this day, I know 50 years was the big anniversary and actually Fox 6, we did a documentary about this. It was a series with the Gales of November talking about the final voyage of the Edmund Fitzgerald. It's actually one of three documentaries that some of our stations at Fox did. Another one was actually in Minneapolis, but it focused On a different subject, talking more about the aftermath and the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald and the people who actually were able to dive down and see this. So I want to play a little preview trailer of what this documentary is all about. So let's take a listen. Looks like our sound may not be working here, which is totally okay. The Great Lakes. There we go. Too cold to be impacted by sea life. You can see little tiny fish kind of flying around, but nothing big. Too deep to be disturbed by ice. The fact that it's fresh water, you don't get the corrosion like you would in the ocean. The Edmund Fitzgerald likely looks a lot like it did when the ship was first witnessed in 1980. The ship was amazingly beautiful because... It's deep and cold and nothing's growing on it or very little. Fitzgerald 1133 it says on the rudder, on the propeller. It still looked nearly pristine when dive teams recorded this footage in the mid-1990s. The well-preserved condition of the ship means the answers that may have eluded researchers and historians for half a century. The wrecks that are on the shoreline are just beat to heck by the ice and by the waves. We don't get that kind of picture, but Fitzgerald is all there. Who wouldn't want to go down there and figure out what happened? There it is right there. Gales of November diving the Edmund Fitzgerald. It's now streaming on Fox Local and YouTube. I actually want to take the chance now to bring in Joe Augustine. He is the executive producer of Investigations and Documentaries at Fox 9. Joe, thanks so much again for joining me here on Fox 6 Now. Thanks for having me. And I know we talked last Thursday about another docuseries that you've been working on that's more recent, but with the day being 51 years ago since the Edmund Fitzgerald sank, I wanted to talk a little bit about this, especially after highlighting our documentary yesterday. So I asked Andrew Severson, who is the EP of ours, this same question, because I think it's something that still resonates with people, that people still care about, nearly five Decades late over five decades later now. So for you, why was it important for your team to keep this story alive? I think you just kind of hit on it's every year the interest just ramps right back up, no matter how many years later it is. I remember actually when I was still a reporter here in the Twin Cities, I covered the 40th anniversary at the time. I didn't know a lot about it, but became fascinated myself with it. And so when the opportunity came to do this project, along with Fox 6 in Milwaukee and our sister station in Detroit. Yeah, I jumped at it. I wanted to learn even more about it. There were a lot of books coming out from researchers and academics to commemorate the anniversary as well. So everything kind of came together. And then for our purposes, I really wanted to try to find an angle that I thought could maybe be just a little unique off of it. And I decided to try to speak to the few people who've actually seen the ship. With their own eyes in the last 50 years, unfortunately, we were able to line up interviews with three divers who went on expeditions in the mid-1990s. And then, you know, luckily, they felt comfortable with us and shared all of their raw footage from those expeditions, which was really fascinating to go through hours and hours of raw footage. And to see that ship kind of emerge from the darkness, it still kind of sends chills up your arms if you're watching that video. Yeah, it's chilling. I mean, even watching that trailer kind of gave me goosebumps a little bit. And I know you had mentioned, you talked with a few people who actually saw the wreckage down there. One of them, Rick Mixter, we actually, Haley, interviewed earlier today on Fox 6 Now. After talking with them, I mean, the few people who actually saw this, did it change your perspective? On just how dangerous it is to go down to the depths of the water there. It really did. I mean, I don't think you can fully appreciate it, even just hearing it. But I mean, some of the anecdotes that they shared about kind of, you know. Stumbling through the dark in these submarines, which back in the 1990s, I think were still would be considered pretty primitive by today's standards, but kind of stumbling through the dark and then the ship emerges. But really, you're just kind of going by feel, you know, they had some sonar equipment, but the two different divers from two different expeditions shared kind of a similar experience where they didn't know they had actually crossed into the ship. So at some point, as they were exploring down, Down there, their sonars lit up and they didn't realize they had actually crossed into the body of the ship. So and then you're surrounded by twisted metal. And, you know, as one person, one diver said, you know, one little pinhole in there. And at that depth, your submersible would Would explode or implode rather because of the pressure. So yeah, I learned a lot about what pressure they were under and just how scary that had to have been to go down. And then also just looking at somebody who's claustrophobic myself, what they were going down in was pretty impressive to see how long they were down in those tiny submersibles and at those depths. Yeah, I mean, deep, deep. Deep water and then combined with the darkness, I mean, as you were talking about it, I was like, there's no way I could ever do anything like that, like, I can't even imagine, so I mean, major props to them for their research and their discoveries from going down there, and you also, I mean, yourself, you reviewed so much archival footage from them that they were gracious enough to give to you, but what would you say was the most... Striking or chilling piece of footage that you guys came across I mean I mean... Chilling, I don't know. I didn't actually review the controversial piece of video of one of the bodies being, which has been debated. I think it's widely accepted that some footage did capture a, you know, the body of one of the crew members who, which is what led to a lot of the controversy wasn't intended, but it was recorded. I think played a big role in the Canadian government saying, hey, that's enough. To honor the families, there has not been another dive since 1995, when they went down to recover the bell, which the families endorsed. So I didn't review any of the controversial footage. And we definitely were not going to include that in our project. But I did talk about just chilling, just seeing to for me, it was just seeing the name of the ship emerged from the darkness. It just... sends a chill up your spine when you see that footage. And so I can only imagine what it felt like. And we tried to reflect this in our documentary, because they all kind of spoke that same moment of navigating through the darkness. And then that big white hole with the black lettering emerges. And, you know, at that point, it was You know, 20 years later, and to think there's only, you know, a dozen or so people who have seen the ship with their own eyes in that time and likely will be the last people to ever see it with their own eyes. Yeah. And I mean, the fact that it is so rare, the people who've seen it, and I know you interviewed three of them, potentially even more, but from what I'm seeing, three, I think maybe three or four. Was it hard to get them to talk or were they ready to share to share their stories. I would say two took a little convincing. Two from another expedition. Rick Mixter is very public kind of with his theories on what happened. The interesting that I found as I started researching it, I didn't understand just how much conflict there still was over the theories of what happened. I didn't understand when I first started on the project just how much debate there still was or disagreement over what actually happened. And one of the key points of contention is, did the ship break in two on the surface, or did it sail to the bottom in one and then break apart at the bottom? You know, I think going back to one of the moments that stood out, one of the divers, Larry Elliott, he really talked about how on one of an earlier expeditions where they didn't go down, they used more like computer software to evaluate it, and it had shown that the pilot door was open. On the cruise cabin, on the captain's cabin, the pilot door was open and that indicated to them that somebody had been trying to get out but couldn't. So when they went back in 1994, they went and went right for that captain's room and could see, yeah, it was open, a big steel door that was open. That was really a big indicator to them of how fast the ship went down. Um, so, you know, little details like that, that emerged, but yeah, there's still disagreement on, did it actually break apart on the surface? Was it a huge wave that snapped it in half because of the weight of the ship or that the middle of the ship was, was not carrying enough, um, uh, taconite or did it go to the bottom and then break apart? So there's still a debate over there. And it's, um, what was fascinating to me is after I showed up to even some of my family members who remember. My parents remember the news bulletin going out in 1975, and my parents disagreed. My mom took one side and my dad took the other. So even when we discuss it with people, there's just a lot of different theories about what actually happened to it, which is, and we tried to reflect this as well, I think that's why there's so much intrigue on it 51 years later. That was going to be my next question, too, because you had mentioned every year there's a resurgence where everybody is interested in this again. I mean, we see it in our numbers on the documentary that people are clicking back on it again because they want to learn more about this. So and you kind of hit it right on the nail there, because I was going to ask, do you think it is the theories or what else do you think is bringing people back every year to this tragedy? I think it's a couple things, and I talked to Rick about this, I talked to Larry about this. I think that the competing theories, the mystery over it, right, that's going to always draw a lot of interest. But then also, there really hasn't been another one of these, you know, where we lost 29 crew members. And where we didn't know what really ultimately happened. I mean, we have some ideas. We found the ship. I think the fact that we did find the ship, right, so that we know that it's down there, that also is going to build some intrigue. The fact that we've seen those images. Without those images, I don't know that this intrigue is there. You know, I mean, if this is a ship that was in a bunch of tiny pieces scattered across the floor of Lake Superior. But the fact that you have... The ship largely intact where you can see the lettering of the ship. And then some of the controversy around, you know, should it have even been sailing and all of those things about the weather patterns. And that's something that Fox 6 did a great job of kind of detailing what happened up until the ship set sail on its final voyage. And please go watch that documentary. I think they did an excellent job, the team over there, of detailing everything that went into it. And then even the history of... The shipping industry in the Great Lakes. So I think there's just a lot of nostalgia, mystery, debate, conflict, which is what is always going to drive a story. So I think that's why the legacy of this. lives on. And the fact that we do have these beautiful ceremonies that are done every year to honor the crew is always going to kind of put it back into the headlines. And remember, there were human lives lost here. And with all of the mystery and the debate and the conflict over what happened to the ship, at the end of the day, we lost 29 people. And they have families and next of kin who are going to keep their memories and their legacies in the news. And that's going to help drive it. But then that also leads to the questions about, Okay, what actually happened? Yeah, I think it sparks a lot of conversation and debate. And yeah, the mystery aspect of it there as well, I think really resonates with people and keeps them talking. But again, yeah, it's important to remember this was a tragedy. 29 people lost their lives, but it is good that people want to continue to learn about it and be educated. And I know you had brought up our documentary and then there's also one in our station in Detroit as well that did one too. Is there an order that you recommend watching them in? I think that's actually the cool part. If I were watching it, I would recommend watching Fox 6 first to kind of try to get the whole history of the shipping industry and kind of the debate over the weather patterns. I think you guys just did an excellent job of unpacking kind of the entire story of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Ours was a much narrower angle. Through the eyes of the people who have actually gone on the expeditions and hopefully some more detailed video or eye opening video from those expeditions. I mean, even seeing the behind the scenes video of how they were preparing for some of those expeditions really jumped out to me. So I would kind of go in that order. And then I think Detroit did kind of a much more well-rounded look at weather patterns and just kind of other factors that played a role and that are still debated to this day. Yeah, I think it's a really interesting mix, the three of them really encompassing all of the different angles, because there are so many, because the impact is so widespread of the situation. I mean, Andrew Severson, he called it like the Midwest lore. And I really think it is, especially if you grew up here, just always remembering it. And I remember learning it in school and things of that nature. So it's really cool to feel a little closer to such wonderful projects that have had such success. I know, Joe, we had also talked a little bit last week about Thin Ice, which is the docu-series that you've been working on, which is three parts, and we know part one is now out. Part two, I believe, comes out tomorrow. So what is the focus of that portion? So in each episode that we're premiering for Thin Ice, our docu-series on the ice operations here in Minneapolis, we also teamed with our sister station in Chicago because the ice operation in Chicago last fall really ended up foreshadowing a lot of what we experienced here in Minneapolis. But for each episode of this, a three-part series, we try to focus on Kind of a key argument from the administration. So the first episode focused on the worst of the worst, as we talked about in detail last week. The second episode, in quotes, domestic terrorists. So what we saw was after the two high profile shootings here in Minneapolis of Renee Good and Alice Preddy, both fatal, both individuals were labeled quickly as domestic terrorists by We know that to not be true. There is no evidence to support those theories. We also then quickly learned that that mirrored what they had said. About Martin Martinez in Chicago. So there was a pattern of how the Trump administration, Department of Homeland Security, specifically Kristi Noem, Greg Bovino, how they characterize this. And it wasn't just people who were shot or fatally shot by ICE or Border Patrol agents. It was anybody who was deemed to have been observing or recording ICE. And I shouldn't I shouldn't say anybody, but many of the people who were deemed to. To have been recording or observing, they were quickly labeled as interfering or assaulting ICE agents. They were accused of assaulting officers with their cars. Thank Many of those claims simply fell apart on closer review once. The evidence had to be produced in the court record. So what our team did during the surge here in Minneapolis is we poured over those court records, those videos, depositions with government officials, and really tried to establish the pattern of what they claimed you. and then does it hold up on further scrutiny. And in a lot of the cases, they just simply fell apart. The most high-profile ones will be Renee Good and Alex Preddy. Alex Preddy's family recently held a press conference here in Minneapolis. In which they said those statements have not been retracted. They have not received a single call from the Trump administration since their son was shot multiple times and fatally killed on the streets of Minneapolis in January. Those statements continue to be out there. Greg Bovino held a press conference in which. He claimed that Alex Preddy was trying to massacre law enforcement. That was his quote, trying to massacre federal law enforcement. There was simply no evidence to support those claims, and that's what we unpack in Episode 2. It seems really interesting, and I feel like it's becoming especially relevant now after the election a week ago today and just seeing, you know, the immigration operations and where things are going to go moving forward. So I think especially relevant time now to to delve into this and to watch a documentary like this. So, again, I know I said this last week, encourage people to go ahead and watch Joe. It's always so insightful. I know we've only spoken twice now, but I learned so much from. Our two chats that we've had so far, like very, very insightful to hear about both of these subjects. And is there anything else you feel like is important for people to know, whether it's about the Edmund Fitzgerald documentary or the new episode of Thin Ice coming out? I will say for as far as Thin Ice, since you have the banner up there and. You know, the thing that I would say is how much things can change in just a week. You're right. I mean, things watching that documentary, you know, a week later after the midterms, where it is clear that immigration and the ICE operations were on the ballot, it motivated voters to go to the polls. But then also specifically last Friday, when the Trump administration elevated Stephen Miller to the chief of staff. Stephen Miller is the architect of these operations, these very controversial operations that resulted in a sweeping midterm loss. In our documentary in episode one, we talked to an official who said the Trump administration would just double down, double down, double down, even when they were checked on misinformation. I would It seems to be that this is another example of the Trump administration doubling down by elevating Stephen Miller, who has taken this hard line stance. And again, not a debate over immigration, but just the tactics that are used to enforce immigration. Stephen Miller has taken a very hard line, controversial approach. They are now doubling down with Stephen Miller. So if you're in cities, and I know Milwaukee's dealt with this too, with enhanced enforcement I think that that tells us that we we may be watching for. We're on alert for more of these operations and potential to see them ramp up in the next few months. Yeah, and I know the big operation, again, we say it was almost a year ago now, but I think there's a lot of the storyline's not over, as you were saying. I think there's a lot of relevant things happening right now to keep an eye out for. So, again, just all the more reason to. To watch the documentary. Joe, thank you so much for joining us again today here on Fox 6 Now. I look forward to our next conversation. Seriously learned so much and appreciate your time. I know I say five to ten minutes and then I always keep you for longer because it's always so great talking to you. So I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. All right, we are going to take a quick break here on Fox 6 Now. I don't have a graphic ready, actually, to promote Thin Ice, but I do have one right here ready to go about the Gales of November, diving the Edmund Fitzgerald. You can stream it right now on Fox Local and YouTube. Same goes for Thin Ice. Again, Episode 1 is out. Episode 2 does come out tomorrow. So a couple things to keep in mind. If you do have some free time today or in the next few days, I encourage you to take a look. Maybe not your typical streaming style if you like Netflix shows or things like that, but I think so educational and so insightful, and now is the time to take a look at it because of the things happening in our world right now.