Why is MAGA fighting for the rapist Russell Brand? | The News Agents

Russell Brand was a fixture at the Republican Convention when I was there and I think has been very much on the circuit with these sort of conservative conventions since then. An American exceptionalism dares to say to British justice, well look at this, what a kangaroo court it was, Southwark Crown Court that could possibly lead to Russell Brand being convicted. This sentence is an outrage when you've got all these migrants running around the UK having Having faced zero justice, For raping young girls. You, as a qualified lawyer, Megyn Kelly, should know better than to give out tropes like that that are just so misleading. Many of the survivors who are coming forward are women in their 30s, 40s, even older, who are saying, I want to complain about the paedophilia committed on me as a teenager by Epstein and others. The News Agents podcast is brought to you by HSBC UK, opening up. A world of opportunity. All right. This is a global production. Start with breaking news from across the pond where a judge just sentenced Russell Brand to ten and a half years in prison. Good Lord. Ten and a half years in prison. He grabbed a boob. He kissed a lady. He sniffed a lady. And he had backdoor sex with a woman who licked his backdoor. Before she was even introduced to him, he is going to prison for ten and a half years for that. The rapist Russell Brand just kissed a lady, according to the disgusting views of the former Fox News host, Megyn Kelly. Megyn Kelly has a huge following. Others have expressed similar viewpoints. Is this how MAGA sees Russell Brand's prison sentence? Welcome to the News Agents. The News Agents. It's John. It's Maelis. And Megyn Kelly. If you don't know her, she used to be a Fox News anchor, came to fame actually for a rather testy interview exchange with Donald Trump when she was hosting one of the presidential candidates debates in 2016 in Cleveland, Ohio, which Donald Trump took huge exception to. That propelled her to superstardom since when she has become a MAGA influencer and has four million followers. for her podcast which is getting ever angrier and ever more dismissive it seems of any kind of justice meted out except when it's done in America. Look, this is her brand. And right now, brand and his innocence is her brand. She aligned herself with Charlie Kirk, with Turning Point USA. She is not, let's say, shy in coming forwards with deeply controversial and, for many UKers, deeply unpopular views. But it is extraordinary that she has walked into this, I would say, critical moment of British justice when a unanimous jury Convicted Russell Brand, for, amongst other things, anally raping a young woman. And she has just said, I don't believe the charges. I don't believe the charges. I feel indignant that the obvious conservative stalwart has been targeted. And I really think that gives you this extraordinary window into how these MAGA personalities view their own, view justice. You don't really have to read. The transcripts of what Russell Brand has done, you don't have to be in court, you don't have to listen to what the jury heard, you don't have to listen to the accounts of any of the women who came forward anonymously to bravely tell their stories, you just have to decide that Russell Brand is innocent because he's MAGA, he's Rumble, he has been on the airwaves, let's not forget, with Donald Trump's youngest son, Eric. And so he is part of the MAGA, indeed the Trump wider family. So she has to go out and defend him. I think the views on... British justice. It's not just confined to British justice. I mean, Emily, you absolutely rightly said it was a unanimous verdict. And just for the absence of doubt, I mean, I'm sure you all know this, but it was eight men and four women. It wasn't 12 women trying Russell Brand in that case. It was eight men and four women who came to a unanimous verdict. The Crown Prosecution Service pored over this very carefully before bringing the charges. There were charges that were dismissed. So this was the wheels of justice doing what the wheels of justice are meant to do, which is to turn slowly and turn carefully and methodically and you leave it to a jury to decide. I would rather have that than Donald Trump telling his Department of Justice who to go after and who not to. Frankly, if we're choosing one justice system over another on present reckoning, I would prefer. Our justice system than America's at this moment in history. But it's worth listening to Megyn Kelly for a bit more. It doesn't just stop at the Russell Brand case. It's about Britain as a whole. And this sentence is an outrage when you've got all these migrants running around the UK, having faced zero justice for raping young girls. There was a racial thing. It's been well documented. They were Muslims. They were immigrants. They were brown skinned. They were raping young white girls. And the authorities didn't want to prosecute them because of political correctness, wokeness, racial sensitivities. Choose your brand that you want for what they did. But it was absolutely disgusting. And now they suddenly found a conscience when they found their first white conservative man. Now it's time. Now we're going to crack down. No, it wasn't well documented, but it was well amplified by, amongst others, Elon Musk, who shares many of Megyn Kelly's views. Look, just to take you behind the curtains, and it is interesting, when we were in Washington, you know, this deeply democratic part of the world, people would come up to us as soon as they heard the English accent and they'd say, oh, I've heard the UK is really dangerous. Or I've heard it's really dangerous on your streets. I've heard there are terrible things going on in the UK. And you can turn around and go, actually, crime is at the lowest it has been for 30 years. I think that's where our numbers are at the moment. And when we put a convict behind bars, when we put a rapist behind bars. That should make the country safer. But amazingly, the mental or the verbal gymnastics that Megyn Kelly and others do is straight to this idea that you're only a rapist if you're an immigrant. You're only a rapist if you're brown-skinned. You're only a rapist if you're a Muslim invader. And that if you are a white conservative man, you can't possibly be found guilty because that's unfair. But the ridiculous nature of this argument And Megyn Kelly, I don't know whether you've followed the news lately, but there's this guy called David Walliams who was quite close to the Labour Party, who also finds himself in a spot of hot water at the moment. It's nothing to do with what your political affiliation is or the colour of your skin. It's to do... With whether you have broken the law and the police find there is sufficient evidence to bring a case against you. And yeah, there were things about grooming gangs that happened which shouldn't have happened. But don't start thinking that in all of the UK, the only people that are brought to justice are brown-skinned or white conservatives. That is simply preposterous and you, as a qualified lawyer, Megyn Kelly, should know better. than to give out tropes like that, that are just so misleading and wide of the mark. I'll tell you where this gets really interesting, legally. And that is when it comes to the Epstein files, which are kind of never far from the whole ether in American life right now. At the moment, the victims and survivors are fighting what they have now termed Virginia's law. Which is essentially to make sure there is no statute of limitations on rape. Many of the survivors who are coming forward are women in their 30s, 40s, even older, who are saying, I want to complain about the paedophilia committed on me as a teenager by Epstein and others. And they're being told that because this all happened in 2000s, in the early years, there is a statute of limitations, they can't possibly bring this about. And it is really important, actually, that our country, the UK, England, does not have a statute of limitations for rape or for sexual assault. And Elon Musk has walked into this route, I don't think realising how much it conflicts with any position that they have taken, you know, trying to support survivors, trying to support the Epstein victims, because he has just come out with a sentence and said it is a decade old. In other words, if it happened a decade ago, just move on, grow up, get on with it. Because America does not have this federal understanding of sexual assault and rape. Going back for decades, they have essentially the statute of limitations, which survivors are now trying to overturn. And so you have this sort of sense, really, of the two different legal systems. I would definitely say ours is preferable, right? And so would millions of Americans who now want to see the survivors, in Epstein's case, get justice. They want to see them get their day in court. They want to see these people, these perpetrators. investigated, even if it does go back 30 years, because that's what justice looks like now. I mean, Emily, you know, you talk about the statute of limitations in the US and part of the Sunday Times investigation that went on, the reporters. You know, spoke to a woman in California who alleged that she had been raped by Russell Brand and no case can be brought because it is out of the reach of the statute of limitations. So, I mean, that is a kind of limitation on justice in a way, because surely that if you have committed a crime, there is always the possibility. And look at the way that DNA technology has moved on now, where you can go and cold call the tech. A case and go back and look at it and find new evidence that could lead to a prosecution. And if crimes have happened, then they ought to be prosecuted. You know, this is where I think that I don't know. I just think it's kind of the way some kind of third world country in America from this. vantage point of feeling immense superiority and American exceptionalism dares to say to British justice, well, look at this, what a kangaroo court it was, Southwark Crown Court, that could possibly lead to Russell Brand being convicted. I don't think you can understand the Megyn Kelly rant without putting it firmly back in the context of proximity to Trump. And I say that because in 2024, Don Jr., Donald Trump Jr., the son, the other son, said in an interview that with Brand and he was interviewing them, you know, they all got quite close to Russell Brand. Russell Brand was a fixture at the Republican convention when I was there and I think has been very much on the circuit with these sort of conservative conventions since then. Don Jr. said, oh, yeah, you know, my father's in the same boat as you. He's faced sexual assault allegations. You know, he's been the victim of lawfare. It's always the victim with Donald Trump, of course. And so I think to understand their response to Brand, you have to put it back in the context that they have supported Brand as being like their father. And it's Brand. has now been convicted as a rapist and been sent down for 10 years, then the system has to be wrong. Otherwise, the assumption is we'd probably be doing the same to their father, Donald Trump, right now. You know, a lot of the accusations, or some of the accusations, on the less serious end, made against Russell Brand in court, Donald Trump more or less admitted to. In the Access Hollywood tape, where he said you can just go up to women, you can kiss them on the lips, you can grab them by the pussy. These are things that he said out loud. Yeah, so what would that look like in the English justice system? That's the question now, right? A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Now look, there's no allegations of anal rape against Donald Trump. There's nothing like that. I'm just saying that some of the things that qualify in English law as sexual assault. Donald Trump says he did in that Access Hollywood tape that was released before the 2016 presidential election. And I guess the question for us is, it's pretty easy to make this into a MAGA circle. You know, the Megyn Kellys, the Elon Musks, the Don Juniors all belong to the same group, think, in America. But we have also seen examples of some of those within our own legal system. We talked yesterday. About the barrister, Ian Winter, who maybe in less strident terms, also basically said the same thing. I'm not really sure. He needs to be convicted. What are you doing, journalists, creating all this havoc, all this fuss? To Ros Irwin, you've got what you wanted now. And in a moment, we're going to be hearing from Bridget Philipson, Minister for Women and Equalities, former Secretary of State for Education, about whether she believes this is actually more widespread a point of view here as well. Bridget Philipson, Secretary of State for Women and Equality. Thanks so much for joining us this afternoon. This is a conversation which feels sort of fresh and very familiar, doesn't it, with regards to Russell Brand, David Walliams. Obviously, we need to be careful to say that they are different cases and they are accused of different things. But nonetheless, we're talking about two very powerful men in the media and television who are accused or indeed convicted of, to some extent, using their power to achieve sexual gratification and worse. Do you think it says something about our culture then, or does it say something about our culture now? It's both. I think it demonstrates a permissiveness in terms of the attitudes that will often exist within certain industries, certain workplaces, but also the reality that often people, men who are predatory, want to put themselves in positions where they can abuse women, and that means they will put themselves in positions in the media, in politics, in churches, in community organisations. And what... What is kind of common across all of that is the extent to which women are often not believed when they come forward and report what's been going on, but also the extent to which men in positions of authority who behave in completely unacceptable ways are not challenged by others. And this is not simply the responsibility of women to come forward and report, although we've seen some remarkable survivors who have been incredibly brave and some fantastic journalists who've really shone a light on appalling practices, appalling behaviour. I think we are making progress, but I think this and the fact we've had a very clear conviction for Russell Brand and a significant prison sentence demonstrates the seriousness of these kinds of cases. Do you think it was adequate, the prison sentence? I think that's a matter for the sentencing judge. It's not for politicians really to involve ourselves in kind of independent decisions like that. But I think it's a very clear message that no matter who you are, no matter what kind of power you hold, whatever your status, you're not above the law. Although it is true to say, isn't it, that in both of these cases, the law has been used and powerful people can use the mechanisms of the law that victims don't have recourse to quite easily. I should say, of course, Mr. Walliams denies the idea that he's a predator or denies the substance of the accusations against him. Nonetheless, in Walliams' case, he has used, over a long time, the mechanism of an injunction. He would say to protect his privacy. But you could look at it another way, couldn't you? And say it was being used to deny the rights of the women involved to tell their story or stories. Do you think that the law around how injunctions operate is weighted too far in favour of the so-called privacy of the individual? I mean, there have been changes that we've made in recent times about NDAs not being used in a way that can be used to cover up abuse. You will always have rich and powerful men who will seek to use the resources, the legal advice, the money that they have available to them to evade justice and to deny responsibility for what they've done. I think that demonstrates that we do need to continue to look at whether this is working as it should. Of course, in parallel, there has to be a strong response in the criminal justice system. And I would always encourage any woman who's been on the receiving end of sexual violence, inappropriate behaviour or harassment to come forward and to report it. Because I think what we have seen through the Russell Brand case is that no matter who you are, what kind of status you hold, you will be held to account. And, you know, it's my job and it's the job of this government. Support more women to come forward who've experienced this. But if they're slapped with an injunction, you know, they come forward and they get, you know, I can't imagine the bravery that that must take. I can't imagine the guts and the tenacity and the willingness to fight something that that must take. And then they come forward and then they learn that in the name of privacy, they're not being allowed to tell their story. What's the point? I mean, it's kind of hard, isn't it? When those legal mechanisms exist, it must be a disincentive for women to come forward, mustn't it? You'll understand that there are limits to what I can say around David Walliams in particular, and I understand, I just wouldn't want to get in the way of anything that might follow on the criminal side if survivors were to come forward. But I think this does demonstrate the extent to which people will, powerful men, men with means, will use whatever is available to seek to hide the truth about their behaviour. We've seen this before, this is not a new... So do you think the government should look again? We have taken steps around the use of NDAs. We have made significant progress on that. I think it's something we need to continue looking at. You do? I do. I think, however, I would say that obviously that injunction was subsequently lifted. The reason we're able to talk about it is because that happened. And I do want to really, really pay tribute not just to the women who've come forward in these cases we've seen, But also to the journalists whose tenacity and, I think, doggedness in exposing. Some of what has taken place over many, many years has also shown real bravery because I appreciate they at times will have come under considerable pressure themselves. Obviously, there's another part of the legal system which this brings into focus, which is how rape trials are conducted. Now, as we both know, unfortunately, it's actually very difficult to even get a case to court, let alone secure a conviction. Thankfully, that has happened in this case with Mr. Brand. Nonetheless, God bless. The women involved, his accusers, clearly had to go through a tremendous ordeal, again, in relaying their evidence and being forced to once again relay their evidence and be subjected, it seems, to the most brutal cross-examination that one can imagine. Obviously, the role of Ian Wintercasey has come up, particularly on the question of his saying, describing one of the incidents as ...occurring after fully consensual vaginal intercourse and saying it was quite a short, momentary total failure to respect her consent. Is this the best of British justice? No, and it trivialises the appalling experience that that woman had and that other women had at the hands of Russell Brand. I thought, I think there are two things here. Firstly, whether we need to do more to make sure that that is challenged more thoroughly in court, because it does trivialise women's experiences. I think secondly, on a more positive note, I thought the sentencing remarks from the judge in this case made very clear what consent is and what is completely unacceptable and what is criminal. But even where we have this prosecution and a successful prosecution, I mean, it's an absolute cesspit when you read some of the comments as to how people are still talking about this on social media, still suggesting that that was perfectly normal behavior, that it was consensual, that it's acceptable, that what was the woman thinking, putting herself in that position in the first place. And you get what you ask for if you spend time with people like that who behave in that way. An extraordinary amount of victim blaming, even after the conviction. Which I think demonstrates that, yes, there is the need to continue to look at what happens within our legal system, what happens in how we support victims to come forward in the first place. But even after a prosecution, we're still blaming the women for, you know, basically not being, for their kind of unacceptable behaviour when they've got nothing to feel ashamed of, nothing to be sorry for. And indeed, this is happening, not just below the comment line, but at the very highest levels of the media. And indeed in the American media, I don't know if you've seen. What, for example, Megyn Kelly, the former Fox News host, went live, literally just minutes after the trial had come to a conclusion and the sentence had been given. She went live to her 4.1 million subscribers on YouTube and expressed her shock at the verdict. She says, I don't believe the charges. I don't have to believe them just because the jury came through with the opposite conclusion. I feel indignant. This obvious conservative stalwart has been targeted. What would you say to Megyn Kelly as the British government secretary of state for women? You know, we've seen from afar Russell Brand's attempted reinvention of himself as some kind of conservative, some kind of... Christiane, I hesitate even to say that because it is just so patently an attempt to manipulate people. And this is how men like Russell Brand behave. They are manipulative. They are predators. And he's gone there, gone over to the States with the express intention of convincing people that he is somehow politically aligned and that therefore justifies and explains away his predatory behaviour. There can be no excuse. For this kind of behaviour and all manner of invoking of the Bible. And I find it absolutely disgusting. As a Christian yourself. It is disgusting that someone would seek to basically pretend to have faith in order to justify their sexual offences. A key, you know, without getting too much into the faith behind all of this. The key thing about forgiveness is you have to accept responsibility for the things that you've done. I have seen nothing to suggest that Russell Brand has taken an ounce of responsibility for his behaviour. Quite the opposite. He has fought this every step of the way. And there can only be forgiveness if there is an acknowledgement of what you've actually done. And the women who have come forward are the people that deserve our praise and recognition. And I think the more time we spend talking about them... And how what they have done shows what further we have to do as a country in order to shift these attitudes. There's a limit to what government can do. I'm not saying that we... This is a big cultural shift. And the key point here is that we have to believe women and girls when they come forward. What is consistent here, what has been consistent in cases that we've seen over many, many decades, is that we don't take women's reports of this seriously and we don't act. And that isn't just about women. This is also about other men who will see this behaviour. And who don't challenge it. This isn't just a problem for women to fix. This is a problem for men to play their part in sorting. And it's a problem, isn't it? And perhaps one of the most disturbing things about the Brand case, which you've already referred to, is that this should come to be viewed in a very American sort of culture wars kind of way through a kind of political lens rather than through a criminal lens, which is what it was. He's a convicted rapist. And Kelly, you know, as I say, to four million people, He's describing him as a conservative stalwart, a conservative commentator the size of Joe Rogan, saying his politics are closest to Tucker Carlson's, and therefore basically saying that the guy is being targeted because of his politics. I mean, I find it... Is it worrying? Is it disturbing? There will be people... I mean, she's obviously American, but lots of British people in Britain will see that, and it potentially resonates with them. There will always be people that will seek to excuse a way. men's violence towards women, and that's just another example of it. I honestly couldn't care less what his political views are, what the political views are of anybody that perpetrates violence against women and girls. I couldn't care what their background is, where they come from, how much money they have. They should face the full force of the law. The reality is that the more powerful you are, the more money you have, the more you can see to defend yourself. Donald Trump Jr. has also defended him, and Elon Musk. All manner of people have defended this kind of behaviour, and it just shows what we're up against. Do you think it's part of a wider political battle? I think it's part of a wider battle that's been going on for decades, which is that women's rights to be safe and to be safe from male violence has never been taken seriously in the way that it should. We have made progress, and the fact that we've seen prosecutions in the Russell Brand case, I think, demonstrates the progress we have made. It does show that no one is above the law, but I think it shows the attitudes that we're still up against every single day, and it shows that progress... It's fragile, you know, so many of the attitudes and the kind of misogynistic attitudes and behaviours that we see expressed, not just online, although that I think does embolden people because it allows people to believe that actually what they're saying is normal and acceptable in a way that they probably wouldn't say it face to face or at least might not have done so before, does show how much still there is to do to shift that kind of cultural attitude towards who's responsible for male violence and the answer to that is men. Of course. Conservatives, or not I should say Conservatives, people often on the radical right now see Brand as one of their own, I mean in an American sense, not in a British sense. But of course he wasn't always a friend of the right. At one time he was courted by the left. Indeed he was courted by your then leader Ed Miliband, now the Foreign Secretary. When you look back at In fact, let's just watch that clip with Ed Miliband and Russell Brand back in 2015. A lot of us feel that what's happened in politics is that there's these unelected, powerful elites that really control things from behind the scenes, not in a conspiratorial way, just in an economic way. And those powerful elites have really got their talons into the Tory party. For me, and for a lot of people that don't vote, that's where that frustration emanates from. It certainly isn't apathy, Ed. It's a sense of, what's the point? What we feel is like, well, the suffragettes, they may have given their lives for the right to vote. The people in power worked out, OK, we've got to give votes to women. Let's just now make sure that their votes mean very little. And since then, since suffrage, since the right of women to vote, what has meaningfully occurred? That's totally wrong. Go on, mate. Well, look, workers' rights. The National Health Service, a minimum wage, lesbian and gay rights. Now, look, the whole point about this is they happen. I don't actually take the view that some politicians take, which is all about the great politicians. I mean, I don't know what Brand's talking about, and I never was really able to much understand what he was going on about. Thank But what do you think when you see that clip now? It's very hard to watch, not least given we know now the full extent of... you of his crimes but it it's not pleasant to watch that it makes me feel a bit sick watching it. Yes. very I know Ed Miliband has previously said he regrets having done that interview and that was before we've seen the criminal prosecution. much. And at the time he said he was proud to be engaging with Brand and he said if there were more people like him I'd reach out to them too. The thing I would say is that people like Brand will seek will seek proximity to power. In order to make it harder for their behaviour to be challenged. Ed Miliband facilitated that. Yeah, but he puts himself in that position alongside a political figure in order to make it harder to challenge him. People like Brand know what they're doing when they do it. That's not to offer any justification. So you're saying Brand manipulated Ed Miliband? I am saying that people like Brand will always behave in ways that are manipulative because they know what they're doing. This is not... Contrary to some of the discussion we see about sexual violence and violence against women, this is not something that just happens. It's not even just a one-off often. It is a repeated pattern of behaviour where people like Brand know what they're doing, not only just in seeking out their victims, but in getting themselves into positions of authority. But just to add to that, I was on the Home Affairs Select Committee when Russell Brand came in front of our committee in 2012 to give evidence to... To an inquiry on drugs policy. I mean, that wasn't my call. I wasn't chairing the committee. He was the caller for the chair. He knew what he was doing when he did that. And I look back on that and I feel deeply uncomfortable that he was given a platform in Parliament and that he was given a platform alongside the then leader of the opposition, Ed Miliband. I think Ed Miliband should apologise. Well, he's already said that he regretted it. But I think just to say one thing. The only person responsible for Russell Brand's crimes are Russell Brand. Of course, but of course, you know, things were known about him then, weren't they? I mean, Danny Minogue in 2006 called him a vile predator. And he said, she said that he wouldn't take no for an answer. Saxgate had happened in 2008, where he rang up an old man. And he and Jonathan Ross talked about having sex with his granddaughter. Katie Perry, his former wife in 2013, said he was very controlling. It went on and on. Everyone knew this. And you're sort of saying that... Russell Brand kind of manipulated Ed Miliband? No, I'm not offering excuses here. I'm just saying that I actually think all of us have a responsibility to reflect on Our role in society in challenging these kinds of attitudes. But I do believe that people like Brand know what they're doing when they seek to put themselves in positions of authority. That is not to explain away or justify anything. But Ed Miliband was the leader of the Labour Party. He's not just someone being manipulated. He knew, Ed Miliband knew what he was doing. He was using Brand, even though he must have known, or at least people around him must have been aware of some of the things that have been said about him. Very disturbing things. But they were using Brand for electoral purposes. That's the truth. I feel uncomfortable watching that. I would be amazed if Ed Miliband did not feel the same way about that. I haven't spoken to him about it directly. But it doesn't make for comfortable viewing. But as I say, the only person responsible for these crimes are Brand. And, you know. You know, um, There are wider cultural questions just finally out there. And maybe... Maybe, in some ways, not the least exculpatory on any of the individuals, but it does say something about values of society, doesn't it? I just want to play you something, I think it's from 2004, from the British Comedy Awards at that time, and just get your reaction to it. Four 15-year-olds, he's drunk, it's unpredictable, and he's probably going home with David Walliams. 2004, it's not that long ago. Everyone laughed, no one said anything. Talking about 15-year-old. Ross says that he didn't write the joke, fine. I'm not really talking about Ross delivering the joke. I'm talking about the fact that everyone laughed. Yeah, regardless of that joke. So in 2004, I would have been, what, 20? That was commonplace. That is not to offer a justification for that kind of joke at a major kind of TV event. But that kind of behaviour, those kinds of attitudes, that was commonplace. Thank And do you think things have changed? I think things have got better, but I think there is still a long way to go. But the kinds of things I'm talking about that still have to change, We as women, if you're walking down the street, the nights are dark now, you'll have your keys in your hands, you'll be taking your headphones out, if you go out for a run late at night, some women don't even do that because they get men shouting you. at them in the street when they're just going about their lives. Those are the kinds of things that I'm determined to change and just this week for the first time, I chaired the Misogyny Task Force, so we've had investment from the budget as well into not just dealing with the... Kind of the consequences of where male violence takes us, but actually challenging these attitudes up front and delivering big cultural change. But I'm sad to say that that clip you just showed me, there's probably dozens of clips like that from comedy shows and TV shows in that era. I was, you know, I'd say 20 at the time. I remember that really well. It was commonplace. It was commonplace. And also arguably in some ways it's got worse, right? Because what wasn't there in 2004 was the manosphere. What wasn't there in 2004 were the Andrew Tates with their channels and, you know, talking in far more lurid language than that, which can just be said at the time as a joke. Yeah. So in some ways, things have got better. Things have got better. The challenges have changed. And certainly what happens online is a huge source of concern around the attitudes it encourages and allows. What would have been, you know, fringe views that people wouldn't say in polite company? You just don't have to go on any major social media platform to see all manner of bile that's pumped out, as if it's... And we've seen it, even as I said, even following the prosecution of Russell Brand. Just finally, Secretary of State, what would your message be if there are women out there, or anyone, you know, young men as well, because it isn't just men, women, maybe older men now, but anyone who's been a victim of sexual violence, or predation, or whatever it happens to be, particularly in the media, politics, what would your message be to them? I hope that they can find the support that they need in order to come forward because the passage of time doesn't mean that prosecutions can't happen. Not everybody wants to go to the police and report crimes to seek a criminal prosecution, although I would really encourage anyone who's been a victim of male violence to do that. But I would also encourage anyone who has been a victim of violence, either in childhood or later on in adult life, to seek support. There is lots of support that is available out there. Because it is something that can really stay with people for the rest of their lives. And I know that survivors will, you know, show remarkable bravery in overcoming the impact that that can have because it can really damage people and stay with people all their lives long. Equally, I think we've seen enormous courage and bravery from the women in these cases who've come forward. But there is support there. There is help available. And if you want to report it to the police, what we're trying to do as a government is to make sure that you get the support, you have a sympathetic response that understands the trauma you've experienced and supports you every step of the way to secure a criminal prosecution. Bridget Phillips, Secretary of State. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you. Just before we go, there's a new launch this week of News Agents Plus. This is where we'll be bringing you extra special content, a Q&A session with Lewis and myself, and a tonne more of episodes and newsletters galore. It's a part of our subscription service. Yeah, you will get all of our episodes ad-free. So if you love those ads that we voice up every day, then don't subscribe. But if you want to cut through those, And just get to the chase, then Newsagents Plus is for you. And there's also free Newsagents USA, which is also dropping today, where we talk about the latest madness in the Republican Party, the battles in the Democratic Party, and Miles Taylor's very personal reflection on what the years of Trump have done to him. The Newsagents podcast is brought to you by HSBC UK, opening up a world of opportunity. This has been a Global Production.