Enes Freedom vs Yao Ming's Rivalry Leads to CCP's Secrets

As Ukraine crisis unfolds, does the West err on pushing Russia into the CCP's arms? North Korea sent five rounds of missiles to open sea within 20 days. As the regime becomes more unruly, what would be the U.S. countermeasure? After NBA player Ennis Freedom accepted Yao Ming's invitation to China, Yao Ming blocked Freedom's Instagram account. Why did he do that? What can we read out of it? Also, Beijing Olympics is just 10 days away. What is the order we should be expecting? Welcome to Wei and Cathy Show. I'm your host, Wei Fang. I'm Cathy Zhang. So last time we talked to you about the, how to say, the rivalry or the encounter, whatever you call it, between Yao Ming and Ennis Freedom, right? So we talked about, you know, there should be follow-ups. And after we talked about it right away, the drama developed to the next step. But we only got to now to share with you what's the most recent development. But behind that development, and we need to dive in, dive deeper into what that, you know, that kind of encounter really teaches. And also, Cathy interviewed two guests, which I wrote in the community, and two guests, which I'll bring you the news scoop on their point of view on the upcoming Beijing Olympics, which is only 10 days away. Okay, but before we got to those stories, which I think is worth listening to, let's first talk about, still talk about the Ukraine crisis. And as of today, the US and UK and the EU are discussing about sending more troops to the four neighboring country, I mean, neighboring country of the Ukraine, but also bordering Russia. So like Romania and Hungary and Poland and so on. So about four countries, each will take like 1,000 troops there. And basically, the position is to move the troops closer to the Russian border in the hope of deterring Russia's possible invasion. Well, I don't know. So what do you think? 1,000 people in each of those countries will make any difference? I don't think so. But to begin with, I really want to discuss with you, because at last show, I shared with you the general strategy, right? Whether the West or the US should pull Russia out of China or CCP's arms into the West's arm, or just push them into China's arm. This is exactly what's happening, okay? So building such a rivalry against Russia is following all the logic, right? Cold War. Russia equals to Soviet Union. Putin equals to KGB. And we need to curb them and cannot have them have another Crimea. And then now it's come to the Ukraine. So the thing is, this is my analysis, okay? In the very beginning, I just want to throw this out and see how you think. First, we did the show last time. I did my survey. And I look at the result in my Chinese show and English show. It doesn't seem to be there are many people who disagree with what I proposed. My strategy, which is not my strategy, actually. President Trump raised that years ago, five or six years ago, saying that don't push Russia into CCP's arms. Pull it out of it. But now, with the pending possible invasion of Russia into the Ukraine, what the US currently thinking about is to, you know, just have a very serious economic sanction, right? That's only, you know, deterring measure. Sanction to deprive them of the chips so that they cannot produce cell phone and things like that, like how US treated Huawei. And they thought that's effective. But just from my common sense knowledge and my experience with China, by doing that, you would not sanction Russia effectively. You will only push them firmly into the full arms of the CCP. Likewise, with North Korea. Let's just take a look at the North Korea situation, okay? I think the development is developing pretty fast, all right? So first, since January 5th, North Korea has sent six ballistic missiles in the four weapon test, okay? Missile test. And then, what does that mean? It means the number of the missile that North Korea filed in 20 days is the same as the number of missile they filed the entire last year, all right? And now, just yesterday, the South Korean military confirmed that North Korea launched its fifth weapon test. And another two cruise missiles were filed. And so, basically, on the same day, on Wednesday, in the Politburo meeting, and the Supreme Leader of North Korea, Kim Jong-un, said his government could start testing the long-range missile and also the nuclear device. All right, in the meantime, North Korea also tested and flew the hypersonic weapons. Okay, remember that hypersonic weapon is what only China and Russia has. Even the US is lagging behind over there. How could this poor North Korean regime have that kind of weapon? Very simple. China gave it to them. All right, so the hypersonic weapons fly at five times or more speed of the sound, and it can just change course at the final phase near the target. That's why it is so dangerous. It could evade countermeasures through maneuvering rather than through speed. So last summer, Beijing tested a nuclear-capable hypersonic glide vehicle that flew into the low Earth orbit, okay? One month later, North Korea tested its own version of a hypersonic weapon. So just one month apart, where do you think North Korea has that weapon? So basically, this is the situation. Like during the Trump time, Trump is able to some kind of, in a certain way, pull Kim Jong-un out of China and closer to the US, okay? And Trump also tried to convince Russia, convince Putin to stay closer to the US. And then now, our current administration, Biden and the European Union and the current NATO, is pretty much saying that follow the old Cold War logic, okay? We're going to deter you. We don't want to fight with you, with the military. We don't want to have people on the, you know, put on the ground, but we're going to economically sanction you. And hopefully that will be a strong deterrent. But that would only push them into China's arms, because they got enough money, they got enough technology to feed Russia. Russia will become a puppy of CCP. Likewise, like Kim Jong-un, this is not good. Because China, remember, China is our biggest rival now. We are adding two allies to them. Russia does not have to be CCP's ally. And we're turning him into the ally. So when you and my Chinese listeners and viewers, it's not hard for them to see this. Why our administration cannot see that? That's something that's very interesting and very puzzling. The logic is not hard to decipher. But that's currently what's happening there. Okay, so now let's look at the, how to say, the rivalry between Anna's freedom and Yao Ming. As you remember, just a few days ago, Yao Ming invited the NBA center of the Celtics, right, the NBA Celtics, and the center, Anna's freedom to visit China and have a comprehensive understanding of China. He and his fan will guide him through China. And if you remember, Mr. Freedom said, okay, I accept you, I'll be there the first day of summer. That's when NBA season stopped. Okay, I'll be there first day, but I will buy my own ticket. I will go check out the labor camp and things like that. And I want to go to Hong Kong with you too and go to Taiwan. So we were telling you, let's hold our breath and see what's the response. So what's the response, Cathy? Yeah, so immediately there was some kind of response, but guess what? Let's see Ernest Freedom's Twitter on the 23rd. He said, I have to share this with everybody, the hypocrisy of Little Yao. Mind you, Little Yao is 7'6", and Freedom is 6'10". Right. Okay. Yes, he said Little Yao. And he said, first Yao Ming invited me over to China. A day later, I accepted his invitation. Then a day later, he blocked me on Instagram like a little kid. Okay. And he added, I guess she didn't approve. And he said, stop embarrassing yourself to the world. So he actually showed how Yao Ming did block his Instagram because when he tried to link to that, it was blank. And then actually, Mr. Freedom shared another tweet a couple of days earlier. He said, this is actually funny and pathetic. China is now the second dictatorship after Turkey that is trying to censor my name in the whole country. So how did they censor? On Sohu, on the Chinese search engine Sohu, when they showed Boston team, the NBA team, every player has a name next to it, except for Ernest Cantor Freedom. It's only number 13 on there. Let's see. Let's show C4. There's no name next to number 13. Okay. And there are some, so that's the responses from Yao Ming and the Chinese regime. And so on the Twitter, there are some responses from the follower. One saying that, hey, Ernest, you are not the only one. We cannot search our top football scorers name either. So you can see that the first number one football scorer, the name is blank, right? Who's him? His name is Hao Haidong, who is a famous soccer player in China. But because now he resides in Spain, I think. And he openly and harshly criticized the Chinese Communist Party and over their human rights violation and their bad deed. And also a couple of years ago, he publicly published a manifesto against the CCP's rule and established a so-called new China on the internet. So that's him and his wife. His wife is also an athlete from China. So, you know, those famous athletes, if their ideas are apart from the CCP's party line, so their name won't be shown. And can we still, yeah, you can see. Let's make that a little bigger if we can. You know, the 13, this is basically a Chinese rooster, a rooster of the NBA players in Chinese. And the 13, the circle there says 13, number 13. So the name is supposed to be Anna's freedom, but it's not there. Basically, it means those names are really, really fatal and very, very scary. So we have to take them off. Right. So that's basically CCP's way of controlling damage. Try to wipe out your name if they don't, you know, if you don't agree with them. Yeah. So I just want to share, I sent a tweet last night. Okay. So after seeing this encounter, right? And so Yao Ming pretty much just blocked Freedom's account. And he's not inviting him to China for that guided tour anymore. But back then, okay, 85 years ago, in 1936, there was a journalist stationed in Shanghai. And his name is Edgar Snow. For many of you, you probably recall the name. Edgar Snow was, how to say, one of the early American journalists stationed in China. And he visited many, many places. He also visited India, interviewed General Chiang Kai-shek and also Gandhi, Gandhi of India. But at a certain point, he was influenced and showed the door to Yan'an, which is the Communist Party's capital in Northwest China. And he went over there in the June of 1936. He stayed there for four months. And after that, he came back with all his notes. He compiled and produced a book, which was published the next year, the English book in America, which is called The Red Star Over China. Okay, The Red Star Over China also got a translated version in Chinese. And because The Red Star is a little sensitive, they turned that name into Xixin Manji, okay, like The Journey to the West. However, the English version and the Chinese version has huge impact in America and also in China. Okay, in America, through Edgar Snow's eyes, basically he described a very friendly, fresh force of Communist Party, which is stationed in the Northwest China. They are like the fresh stream. Okay, that's the word he described. Fresh force. They are not corrupt. And they are very diligent. And they work very hard. They are very clean. And they love democracy. Okay, and so on and so forth. All right, so that book really built a very good impression about the Chinese Communist Party in the mind of Americans. So a few years later, if you may not know this, okay, after 10 years later, when the China-Japan war was over, okay, and Chiang Kai-shek or the Nationalist Party ruled China, regained all the territory of China again, and started a civil war with the CCP. Literally, President Truman did a weapon embargo against the Nationalist Party, basically the Republic of China. The reason? Because they think they are fighting a corrupted National Party forces, fighting a clean Communist Party force. So with that kind of army embargo, and the Nationalist Republic of China's army, basically the most weapons are U.S. supplied. So when they run out of ammo, what can they do? They have to go back to the depot and dig out those Soviet, the Soviet, I'm sorry, the Japanese, the Japan weapon that was left behind when they failed the war and went back to Japan. And then that's the weapon that they can count on to fight the civil war. In the meantime, the Communist Party have their military armed by, how to say, imported weapons from Soviet Union, which happened to be all American weapons. Because this is during the Second World War, yeah, the Second World War, the Americans shipped so much weapon to the Soviet Union, they didn't use them up, they got enough. They simply just passed it on to CCP's army. So it's American armed CCP army fighting the Japanese, the failed Japanese, how to say, armed Nationalist Party. That's why China was lost. So in a certain way, this is due to this book. The Red Star Over China changed the mind of many people, I'm sure, including President Truman and the people around him, in a certain way. And the Chinese version, the Xixing Manji, the Journey to the West, and fools so many young Chinese intellectuals. They just, how to say, they betray their family and they run to Yan'an on foot, one or two thousand miles, went to Yan'an and become the soldier, full soldier of the CCP. And so I read the book. Okay, I read some of the book. I didn't read the entire book. And I only have one commentary here, comment here. So basically, Edgar Snow was show the door to Yan'an and went through the guided tour. And then pretty much they got 30 or 40 Yao Ming, 30 or 40 Yao Ming of that time. And they talked to this poor journalist who naively took in everything they told him. And what they told them is really just a fable, lies, stories that does not exist, did not exist. But Snow just took them in and turned them into a book full of passion and enthusiasm and his imagination. And then changed the mind of many, many people in the US and also in China. So this is how much harm a guided tour can have upon people, upon the entire generation, upon an entire nation. So at the end of my tweet, I said, fortunately, I just wish that in this world, we no longer have any more Snow, OK? Any more Snows. We only have freedom. So Cathy. Yeah. So actually, so this book, obviously, it's translated into Chinese. It's for the propaganda to the Chinese people. But also, as we mentioned, it affected a lot of Americans, including the decision making at that time. So actually, we do have a live example of how it affected a lot of Americans. But fortunately, this person changed his understanding. But it's 30 years later. So think about that. So again, this is from the story from General David Stilwell, who is the Assistant Secretary of State for the East Asia and the Pacific Affairs under Trump administration. So this is a very brief sharing from him during my interview. But I think it's really worth listening to his story, how those type of book, this type of education affect people's mind in the United States. And it is still happening, actually, in here, right? So we would like to understand that. So yeah, let's hear how General Stilwell's understanding of China just changes. So I mentioned the book, Stilwell and the American Experience in China. For my Chinese history friends, if you remember, Joe Stilwell, Shirdi Wei, was not very complimentary of Chiang Kai-shek. He called him Hua Sheng, peanut, and other things. And that's unfortunate. But the way the book was written, it didn't spend a lot of time on the CCP. And what treatment it did give was generally positive because it wasn't the KMT during World War II. And so my impression as reading that book was that maybe the KMT in World War II was corrupt, the Chiang Kai-shek, and that the communists in the North maybe were a better choice or going to be something different. Well, then the book ends in 1945 and we're fighting a full-on war in 1950. So again, that's unfortunate. But you're left with the impression that maybe the communist government's better. And it's a free country and Barbara Tuchman can write whatever she wants. And what she wrote, I believe, is perfect. It's factually accurate, historically accurate. Well, then the next book I read was by a guy named Edgar Snow and it was called Red Star over China. And it was a guy... And he's people really familiar with that. Yeah. And this was a guy who was taken in by the propaganda machine, who was only shown all the good things. And he wrote very... He was writing articles about it and then he published a book about it. And my young 18-year-old mind read that book and I wasn't questioning it. I wasn't... I didn't think he would try to mislead me. And so I thought, wow, this is a pretty good thing, right? We're getting rid of the corrupt, rich... We're distributing the land among the people fairly and all those things. I mean, I can see why people buy propaganda because it's fiction. It's written to convince you of something. It doesn't cover all the bases. It doesn't tell you the whole story. And so I carried this impression for 30 years. 30 years? 30 years that I thought, well, maybe this communist system can work out. Maybe we can work with these people. Maybe they're reasonable. But it wasn't until I went to Taiwan in 2018 that I went, oh, I get it. Wow, so it's very recent. I was wrong all this time. And I was wrong because I was intended. I was influenced. I was fed propaganda to make me wrong. Why the trip to Taiwan made such a big change in you? Well, they spoke the same Mandarin, basically, except mine is the R that I heard in Beijing. And so I could communicate. And the culture was similar, right? The basics of Confucian culture and all those things the same. But as I walked out the hotel door that one morning, the air was clean. The people were really friendly. There was just none of those harsh edges of the communist system. I wasn't worried about getting arrested for maybe saying something wrong or going to the wrong place. There's a place called Forest Park near the hotel I stayed in Taipei. And I went running. That's how you can best understand a place is run. So I ran. And I ran past a Catholic church. And it was a real Catholic church. There were real people going in and having worship. And within a block, I ran past a Islamic Muslim mosque. It was a real mosque. And it had real... Those things in Beijing are fake. You know, the Catholic church, the main one there in Beijing, at Christmas time, had a Santa Claus playing a saxophone, you know? And the services that were conducted there were generally there to demonstrate that, yes, we have religious freedom. Well, no, they don't. It wasn't. It was fake. Anyway, the things in Taipei struck me as real, legitimate, honest. I just wish that the Chinese people had the same benefit, you know? So it really... But it's really kind of... I think a lot of people would think, wow, you know, 30 years of the impression, it just... Took a long time. Yeah. You can read stuff. It just doesn't make the same impression as seeing it. Yeah, and the general still will. Also shared what he experienced in China helped him to change this 30 years of impression on China as well. At the embassy, we all went to China in the embassy as panda huggers. We really wanted to get this relationship on track. Because look, the benefits of cooperating are far better than, far more than what we're gonna end up with in competition. But we have to compete. We all want that. We all want to share these things, right? We all left dragon slayers. We all left going, there is no way we can fix this. It's impossible. This is... Give us example. Well, I gave the example of my own experience, where I was not afforded the same access or respect that I gave, or we gave their representatives in DC. The embassy in Beijing is, you know, it's got multiple layers of fences that you have to go through to get into the embassy, to your own embassy. To the American? American embassy. And the reason is they're afraid that Chinese people will try to go there and claim asylum or something like that, or worse, or somehow embarrass the government. But you see the Chinese embassy in DC, there's no restrictions at all. They walk in and out. You know, I asked my counterpart, why is that? You know, why are you harassing us? If you're an Asian face walking into the embassy in Beijing, you're going to get harassed, right? You shouldn't have it. You know, we hire Chinese people in the US embassy. We have no problem with them working with us. We need... It's frankly, it's cheaper to hire local Chinese to work in the embassy. Their language skills are better. They can work with the local government better. Ask your Chinese friends here in the consulate or in DC, how many Americans they hire in that embassy. Zero. It's a trust problem, right? So anyhow, these are all things that contribute to just broad impressions of the system that we're dealing with. Yeah. So talking about the US embassy in China, let's show two pictures. Actually, I just... You know, it's going to relate to the next topic we're going to talk about. But just take a look. This picture of the US embassy, right? In China, how they are guarded. You see all those bars, right? So this is from the Reuters report. Next one. Let's see. This also shows the embassy of the United States in Beijing. But this is from the Global Times report. Okay, Global Times. We talked to you many times. It's a Chinese communist state-controlled tabloid. So they show this way, but... They skip the fences. They're able to enter the fences. And because they are their own people, so... Yeah, so this... Do we have Chinese embassy in the US? Oh, I didn't... Maybe Tony can find out. Like the Chinese embassy in DC. And I was near there. I remember what it was like. Like General Stilwell said, right? Yeah, just... There's no fence. There's just a door. Just walk over there. Nobody will stop you. That's the stark difference. Just on this small matter, how to enter the embassy. Yeah, so I think the small things like this, but it tells a lot. So yeah, I think General Stilwell... Under 30 years impression of how China under CCP might work, those real experience, personal experience. Yeah, so back to freedom versus, how to say it? Yao Ming, okay? So remember that 85 years ago when Edgar Snow went to Yan'an and then came back with his notes and wrote the book. Nobody suspected that he was telling the untruthful thing. He probably himself doesn't know that. So because I read those, okay? The story of a certain Chinese communist top leader and how glamorous they are and how colorful their life experience all just through somebody's mouth. He did not interview them. He did not go back to check out all the other witness, things like that. So they just found 30 or 40 Yao Ming in those four months and just talked to this poor journalist who just suck in everything and then produce that red star over China. So it's really, really unfortunate. Nobody would imagine how deceitful the Communist Party is. You know, Wei, this reminds me of a movie I don't know how many of you watched. I watched maybe, I don't know, quite a few years ago. The movie's name is called, it's a Hollywood movie, okay? Volunteer. It's an old movie. I think it's the 1970s or 80s. But at that time, I think Hollywood actually does produce some, you know. Decent stuff. And the main character is Tom Hanks. Talk about how this young man, you know, made trouble in the United States, joined the Peace Corp to go to Vietnam. And there's one scene, okay? One of his pal was caught by the communist Vietnamese army. And first of all, he was like, you know, you just tell me, you know, you just work on me, right? I won't bow to you whatsoever. Then the next thing is that he was like bowing to them, nodding to them, like, yes, yes, yes. So it really showed how the propaganda, the brainwashing of the communism, really, it really worked on a lot of people. So I had a very, you know, I was very impressed by that movie, actually, because it really showed how, you know, communism is deceitful and can really change, kind of brainwash people. Yeah. So fortunately, we have this young guy, Enes Freedom, who went through the totalitarian regime like Turkey, and he got really immune. And he got his people's ear, because he's an NBA player. So he's way better than Snow, okay? And then, so I just hope that at this stage, going forward, after we went through more than 100 communist parties rule, communism, that we come through wiser, knowing that people, you know, we won't be like Atticus Snow being tricked and being deceived and wrote something or say something that, you know, for our countrymen. So again, salute to Freedom, right? We should all salute to him. Yeah, quite a guy. Yeah. And so next, let's, you know, dive into more into the Beijing Olympics coming up in less than 10 days. And what would people be expecting and what should people watch out for? So I interviewed Freedom House person. They did analysis on that. But before that, there's some kind of, there are other news related to that. Actually, also relate to what General Stewart just talked about how, you know, people in the embassy, in the US embassies in China felt assaulted. It's still happening. The United States, it was reported by various media, including like Reuters and also including Global Times saying that the United States State Department is considering whether to authorize American diplomats and their families in China who wish to leave, to depart China. Because according to Reuters, the sources said that some embassy staff really don't like the intrusive pandemic control measures by the Chinese authorities. But they feel the United States government has been unwilling or unable to accept them from those rules. So what are the rules? Those including possible forced admittance to COVID fever clinics and the separations from children. And according to one of the sources, the US embassy conducted an internal survey showing that as many as 25% of the staff and family members would choose to leave China as soon as possible. Another source said that the embassy leadership had failed to get appropriate assurance from the Chinese government on the treatment of the US diplomats throughout the pandemic. And the person also said that the United States government should have imposed retaliatory measures to Chinese consulate officials for quarantine requirements but failed to do so. I think everybody knows that right here there's no Chinese consulate complaining about any such kind of treatment or requirements. So the state-run, the Chinese state-run tabloid Global Times called the State Department's consideration of the policy is a dirty trick intended to sabotage its hosting of the Olympics and quote-unquote slander China's anti-pandemic work. And in the meantime, Global Times published an exclusive report on how China blasts US plot of authorized exit of diplomats ahead of Olympics. And the subtitle is US Confusing Logic, Evacuate from China to Get Infected Easily. So they are touting that China is now the safest place on earth. Okay, why? Because, you know, they said they quote some data from a world meter. Okay, we'll talk about this a little bit, a world meter. Again, the Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Zhao Lijian said today that China is undoubtedly the safest country at present and evacuating from the safest place to the world in the world will only expose US personnel to much greater risks of infection. How do you think of that? And the data is cited from a world meter. This is a so-called a real-time statistics site. And as of today, the site shows that the United States has more than 72 million COVID cases and a death toll of over 890,000. Okay, and that's listed as the world's number one United States. And then Global Times reported that about 2,000 Americans are dying from COVID-19 every day. And it's increasing, the death toll increasing nationally. It quoted also from Xinhua News Agency saying that in contrast in China, only 4,636 patients died from the infection since the onset of the pandemic. This data is also from this world meter. And it admits that the toll has remained unchanged for almost a year. Remember, General Stillwell talked about this in the previous interview. This data, the death toll of China in China, which is 4,636 people died of the pandemic, has not changed since last April. And so do you believe that? And the Global Times told you how China is the safest place and how the countermeasure, the preventive measure against the pandemic are very scientific and precise. And the strategy is well-recognized and how it compares how United States is chaotic and failure in dealing with the pandemic. So just to take a closer look at this world meters, the data that the Global Times is citing and how credible it is. I did a little bit of research and it's a data aggregation website covering subjects like government, world population, things like that. But in 2020, this website attained a greater popularity due to its hosting the statistics related to COVID-19 pandemic. It became like the number 28 of the most visited website. And its number, the COVID-19 figures has been widely cited by like New York Times, Washington Post, CNN. But it's already faced a criticism over the transparency of the ownership and the lack of the citations of data sources. As well as the unreliability of its COVID-19 statistics in the rankings. So the English Wikipedia already in earlier, like in April, 2020, the editors decided that this site's COVID-19 figures are very unreliable, should not be cited. But again, Global Times just cited as its evidence. And the ownership is very untransparent. The name, the name Worldometer, actually it's owned by another data company. Okay, this data company called Datax. And the Datax actually has shared the same name as a company headquartered in Shanghai. So although these two companies, both in March of 2020, they both came out to send out statements saying they have no relationship, but it's just there's no transparency. It's very hard to really find out who's behind this site. And they said that they only use like a volunteer software developers. But this site has like 31 languages. And the relationship between this site and Johns Hopkins University, I mentioned before, I asked Dr. Yanli Meng about the pandemic map from Johns Hopkins University. So actually Johns Hopkins University lists this Worldometer as one of several sources for its widely cited coronavirus dashboard, including the map. And the university declined to say what specific data points it relies on Worldometer for. But it has been already notable errors, very big errors there. So again, I also found out that the person who, the student who developed this dashboard is actually a Chinese student in Johns Hopkins University. Of course, he's under supervision of a professor. So this is the background. So the Global Times just criticize the United States Department of State is politicizing, trying to sabotage its successful hosting of Olympics and trying to undermine its anti-pandemic policies by allowing the embassy staff to withdraw from China. So then what do we expect, especially for those athletes and the media, the journalists who will be at the Beijing Olympics? So Freedom House, this is a human rights organization based in Washington, D.C. They analyzed information controls at the Olympics. They said that the CCP leadership will be dialing up the world's most sophisticated apparatus of information control using censorship, surveillance, and legal reprisals to curb political, religious, and other speech that deviates from the party line. I talked to the researcher who did the research. She's a research director of China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan issues at the Freedom House. Her name is Sarah Cook. And she said that these conditions could have serious implications for athletes and the journalists and for the Chinese public more broadly. So first of all, I asked what kind of restrictions for the athletes and the journalists who are going there would be facing? Well, I think the thing to keep in mind is that the Chinese Communist Party has really put in place in China the most sophisticated and multi-layered apparatus of censorship and surveillance in the world. There's really never been Olympics like this in terms of it being in a place that is so heavily monitored in such a high-tech way and in such a pervasive way. It's actually a big difference even just from 2008. And so I think there's an element of just being aware of that and being aware, for example, that hotel rooms may be monitored. Any device you take is going to be monitored. And in fact, one of the things that was discovered just I think last week is that one of the apps that's required for anyone attending, athlete, coach, the small number of spectators that there may or may not be, journalist, for health protocols actually has an element of some surveillance and some censorship embedded in it. And so there's an opportunity for users to report on each other if they see someone saying something, say, quote, political or about human rights or anything else in the chat or at the venues. And then there's something that wasn't yet activated, but that has all of these kind of sensitive keywords, so to speak, that if someone were to use those, their chats or information could be censored within this app. So I think that's just one example of a revelation that came out very recently in terms of the level of monitoring and surveillance and potential censorship that is going to be taking place. So Sarah mentioned it would be the monitoring and censorship will be more severe than the 2008 Beijing Olympics. So I asked her to elaborate a little bit more. You know, looking back, actually the 2008 Beijing Olympics was kind of a watershed moment in terms of surveillance in China because it was the first time they really started to invest, for example, in video surveillance in a lot of places. They expanded things like databases of key people like Falun Gong practitioners or Uyghurs or others that they deem as, quote, troublemakers. And that really has escalated and taken off and really become a huge industry in China. And of course, the level of sophistication that's available now with artificial intelligence, with facial recognition, is just light years away of where we were back in 2008. And so I think that's one dimension is just the technological innovation and what's changed. I think the other is that honestly, the regime is even more oppressive now than it was in 2008. And so, you know, for example, Freedom House, we do give countries like scores on their level of freedom. And China has long been rated not free. But, you know, back in 2008, 2010, 2011, China had about a 17 out of 100, with 100 being the best. Now, that's not a very good score. If you were a student on a test, you would not want to get a 17. But today, China's a none. So you're talking about a country that was already one of the most repressive and authoritarian in the world. And it's barely half as free as it was just, you know, say 10 years ago. So I think that's the other element, that there's just the regime is just targeting so many more communities and so many more people that used to be on the so-called safe side of the red line, and now they're not. So all kinds of things that you used to be able to say and do and maybe not be punished are now more commonly punished with more severe punishments. And so I think that's really also part of what's changed. It's a combination of the greater surveillance, but also a regime that is just that much more brutal and harsh. And so what else people should watch for? I think there's different types of sponsors. There are ones that are really just like advertisers and corporate sponsors. And honestly, they really are the ones that now it's too late, but it would have been great if they could have used their economic leverage to get the games moved essentially, right? Considering the situation in China and how it's become that much worse, even just since China was awarded, Beijing was awarded the games back in 2015. I think with regards to broadcasters like NBC, you know, I'm still hopeful. I think we'll see, because I think there is a lot of attention and pressure to see how they manage the broadcast. And to the extent they are able to say, sprinkle some commentary about the broader political context in China. So maybe it might not be the person who's actually say reporting on the ground during the sporting event, but maybe when they come back to the studio here in the US, you know, maybe they will have someone like me to say something, right? Or maybe in between the sporting events, they'll be able to air some documentary or something like that about, you know, some of the issues going on. Not only, you know, for example, the, you know, persecution of religious and ethnic minorities, but environmental issues, crackdowns on human rights lawyers, the situation in Hong Kong. So I think we'll have to see, but that's one of the things that Freedom House has called on broadcasters to do is that if you're already covering and reporting on the Olympics, look, a lot of people want to see the sporting event. That's understandable. But to really try to make an extra effort to provide that context. And I do think that people are watching them. We get even more than 2008. I think there's a lot of attention to kind of test and see where different international actors land in terms of whether they do something that is closer to standing up for religious fundamental human rights and all of the people in China who are persecuted and in Hong Kong, or they just remain conspicuously silent on these issues. And kind of rah-rah for the Chinese Communist Party. Yeah. And lastly, I just ask Sarah, you know, any other things she would like to remind or share with our audience. I think there's going to be a lot of attention on the athletes, on the foreigners, on the journalists. And I think there's going to be a lot that we're going to see happening on screen. But I actually think that there's going to be a lot happening behind the scenes. And it'll be really interesting to see after people return what they say about what was going on. Because already you could see, and for example, the Foreign Correspondents Club of China published a statement in November. And there were like 10 examples from foreign journalists, not just from the US, but from Europe, from Asia, talking about the problems and the obstructions that they met. Just trying to like talk about the preparation of the Olympic venues. So I actually think it'll be perhaps quite interesting to see when everybody comes home and is a little bit able to speak more freely, what kind of tidbits and anecdotes related to surveillance, just obstructionism, of how much Chinese officials really stop people from being able to report independently or speak independently. So I'm actually quite curious to see what comes out after that. Okay. So Sarah Cook with Freedom House. Yeah. All right. So yeah. I saw, you know, actually I also read it, Patrick on Safe Chat said, read tonight Taiwan is boycotting the Olympics, good for them. Okay. And as you see how the rhetoric, you know, goes, right? And when the US embassy staff want to exit China and go back to America, they said, why do you want to do that? China's the safest place. Well, they can say so, but how about just ask the people in China, ask people in America, where do they want to go? If China is as safe as they're touted to be and those American embassy staff should not, should not raise the request, right? Or they were just ordered by the superior and to play this trick. And just think about that, right? Yeah. And also think about, yeah, think about, I was, we were talking about that earlier. If, you know, the diplomats in the United States from the Chinese consulate, they feel so unsafe here in the United States, what would they do, right? We have not heard a word from them, you know, requesting like a more quarantine or they wanted to go back to China. Have we heard about that? Nothing. What does that tell, right? So in Chinese we call this 用脚投票 Just, you know, government always have their rhetoric. Yeah. Vote by feet. Okay. In China, you cannot vote by ballot. You vote by feet, you know, feet. You choose to come to US, that's your vote. So, yeah. So it should be reversed, right? Chinese consulate embassy staff should say, I want to go back to China because it's safer there as touted by the Chinese state council's spokesperson. But nobody did that. In the meantime, we've got a reverse happening. And so this is the, you know, that's the issue. In Chinese, the language, there's this joke, right? A Martian, a Martian came to the, Martian, the planet of Mars is doomed. Okay, this Martian needs to find a new place to stay. So they came to the earth. Wow, this great place. I need to decide on which country to go to. It really depends on which newspaper you pick up. At that time, you know, the joke goes, they pick a New York Times. Okay, New York Times just full of bad things in America. They pick a People's Daily. Wow, this is paradise. All the Martians went to China. Then they all regret, you know, to the, how to say, to the last breath of their life. But that is the thing is, it is, you know, it is, right? In the US, newspapers tell the truth. Generally speaking, not today, back then. Newspapers tell the truth. American government tell the truth. When we say 800,000, more than 800,000 people died. We probably, those people who are sick, who are not, not that are caused by the, how to say, pandemic. They're all, you know, attributed to the death toll for the pandemic. In China, the numbers stay at 4,600. Okay, just this number, you know, can you believe that? 4,636 since last April. Yeah, back then we report about in China, just in the month of February and the March of the 2020. Okay, by counting, by counting the number of the, how to say, cemetery caskets, okay, the truck moving in, into the funeral home. You add them together, it's way, it's way beyond the government number. It's probably 10 times as much. But it doesn't matter. They control the media. They say whatever they want. And just like the Martians, you know, they, if they just listen to the propaganda or listen to whose number, everybody will think China were the most, the best paradise in this world. It is not. People vote by their feet. They come to US, nobody migrate over there. People migrate over here. So anyway, that's, but again, this is how, how to say, this is how the propaganda works. I hope that they will, from now on, they won't trick anybody. Okay. Like how they trick the snow, Mr. Snow. And who will turn around and fool the world. All right. That's all for today. Thank you very much for staying with us. And yeah. Yeah. Thank you for all the comments. We are sorry, almost one hour. So we won't prolong further. But yeah. Glad that you all being with us. And hopefully, you know, we all just learn something. Yeah. I think people like us, I think we are the seed of the truth. The seed will come out, will sprout, will grow big. We're gonna, you know, we're barefoot. Other people will, you know, learn from us, hear from us. And people become wiser and wiser until the propaganda goes nowhere. All right. Take care. Good night. Until Friday. All right. Bye-bye.