Arsenal manager Mikel Arteta believes he has to alternate his goalkeepers throughout the season

Let's turn our attention to Arsenal, shall we? Another important win for them. Steven, they haven't looked at their best this season, but the fact that they're getting results, will that be encouraging for Mikel Arteta? Yes, it has to be. I think you take the positives out of every single game and that is something that you take from that game. They've just looked solid defensively, organised. They certainly did yesterday, but they weren't really caused too many problems by Everton. But it's in the attacking areas, it's just not as fluid as it was last season. It's not quite as slick. We saw for the goal that when they do turn it on and when it is slick, that's what they can do to teams. They can cut them open so easily, but we just haven't seen that enough at the moment. And whether that's a different approach from Mikel Arteta, wanting to slow games down so that they're not fatigued towards the end of games, so that there's more energy throughout the game. I think that might be something that we're seeing at the moment from Arsenal. Yes, the goal came from an excellent short corner routine. Sue, Leandro... I've got to put my teeth in. Leandro Trossard. Let's start again. Hey, Sue, they got a great goal from a short corner routine, didn't they? Leandro Trossard, coming off the bench. Is this a difference, perhaps, between Arsenal of old and Arsenal of now, that they can have these players on the bench and bring them on? Yes, absolutely. And you looked at that was clearly a tactic of Arsenal's, wasn't it, to play those short corners. I think it was eight out of the 11 corners that they had were short. They'll have looked at Everton, the stature, the physicality that they have in the box. So there's no point in getting it in the box. Can we do something different? And it's clearly an excellent training ground move from an Everton perspective. They'll be really disappointed to concede from that because that was the way that Arsenal were going. They just didn't learn from the opening few that Arsenal did. But you've got to say this was so slick, the way that they moved the ball, the pace and then the quality of the finish from Trossard. Because, yes, I think, like you say, they've got that strength and depth. Obviously, Martinelli went off, he came on. And, you know, whether he's going to be an impact from the bench, whether he's now taken that opportunity. But whatever it is, you know that he's got quality. He can play with his left foot, his right foot, and he's got that versatility. So they've certainly got that strength and depth. I just thought it was a real mature performance, I think, from Arsenal, because it's difficult when you're playing against a team that are just sat in. They don't want to come out and they had to stay patient. And when that moment of quality caught them, they took it. But, Sue, do you not think with the... I was really surprised. I was at the game and, like you say there, eight out of the 11 corners are taken short. There was an overload every single time of 3v2 versus Everton. And Everton didn't think to themselves, right, well, we can release a player to the edge of the box. Zinchenko and Vieira were free on the edge of the box every single time. And you're thinking, if they do work it short and they get that opportunity to shoot, you're going to have to release a player anyway. It was very surprising from Everton's point of view that they thought, it's almost naive to think, are they going to put one in the box? Well, you'll deal with that anyway, or you should be able to deal with that. So it was very surprising from Everton's point of view. But obviously, Arsenal looked at it and thought, well, we continue to do that. Yeah, we might get to see more of Trossard because of the Martinelli injury. Every silver lining has a cloud. How big a blow is that to them? Or do they have that depth now? No, you always want a player of his quality. Individually, he has that ability to unlock a defence and to find a killer pass. And we know he's capable of that. He'll be a major loss to them. It was interesting that you talk about Trossard there, Robyn. He was sort of having a little bit of a question of Michael Arteta, wasn't he? How much game time am I going to get? We heard the stories coming out where he's getting a little bit frustrated. You're at Arsenal, though. That is what you're going into. When you sign from Brighton and you go into Arsenal, you're going to have more competition for places and to get a spot on the team. But losing Martinelli will be a big blow if it's for a long time. Yeah. A lot was made of the decision to start David Raya ahead of Aaron Ramsdale. Have a listen to this. This is what Michael Arteta had to say about rotating his keepers. I cannot have two players in his position and don't play them. David has tremendous qualities like Aaron has, like Kyle has. But we have to use them. And I have few regrets for what I've done. One of them, it was that in two occasions, I felt after 60 minutes and after 85 minutes in two games in this period, to change the keeper in that moment. And I didn't do it. I didn't have the courage to do it. And someone is going to do it. And maybe it's, ah, that's strange. Why? Why not? Tell me why not. You have all the qualities in another goalkeeper to do something. Something has happened. You want to change momentum. Do it. OK. Fascinating. Sue, do you get what he's saying? It's really fascinating. I was listening to that interview yesterday. And it's just, I think it's because it's different. It's something that we've, you know, we don't really, we've not heard before, have we? It's you have a number one goalkeeper, you have a number two goalkeeper. And normally that's the way it goes. And unless that keeper loses form or is injured, then the number two comes in. But to have two number one goalkeepers and to say that there were games that he thought he could have changed it part way through, it is really interesting. It's something that, like I say, it's not, you know, it's not popular, is it? It's not something that we see again and again. And we were actually speaking before the show. And I was saying, who is his number one? That's difficult. That's difficult to try and keep both of them happy, because when those big key games happen, they're both going to want to play. You get to a cup final. You know what happens in the Champions League. You want to play in those real important matches. So it's going to be difficult to keep both of them. But, you know, he clearly thinks that he can. And he's clearly just looking at it as another position on the field. So like he changes a forward, like he changes a midfielder, he'll change a goalkeeper to make an impact. So it's really interesting. It'll be interesting to see how it goes on throughout the season. I'd be fascinated to know the two games he was talking about there when he said 60 and 85 minutes. And therefore, because if you look at them, the only thing I can think of is one better on crosses than another. And if they're putting in loads of crosses, do you want to... Can you work that out, why you would want to change a keeper? Well, this is the other thing that we were talking about. We were saying against Everton, you'd expect a physical battle, balls into the box, high balls in. You'd look at that and go, well, Aaron Ramsdale, he'd maybe be the goalkeeper for that. But Rea yesterday was outstanding in some of the crosses that he came for. So maybe it's actually the other way around that, Michael Arteta seeing that, whether it's playing out from the back, whether it's being on the ball. Is there a difference that he sees in the build-up play? It is going to be fascinating to see how it plays out. I was at the game yesterday and as I was walking across, the first players out are always the goalkeepers. And I was walking up into the gantry, into the position. I was watching Aaron Ramsdale's body language and it was almost like he'd only been just told on the day. He looked so disappointed and upset that he wasn't playing. And that is the battle that Michael Arteta is going to have now. How does he pick him back up? Does he put him back in for the Champions League and suddenly he gives him a lift? But then what does David Raya think? And I remember when we spoke about this a few weeks back, David Raya was tipped to go to Bayern Munich as the number one. Now, if you're not going to go to Bayern Munich as the number one, what has Michael Arteta told you to get you to Arsenal? He's telling you you're going to play a lot of games and you're going to have a lot of game time. I think it's going to be really interesting and it could possibly be a little bit fractious in the changing room with working that dynamic out between the goalkeepers. Obviously, we saw Van Gaal do it in the World Cup down in Brazil, didn't we, with the Dutch? But that was for a penalty shootout, maybe. So, you can kind of understand that. And when we saw it in the Super Cup final, didn't we, with Thomas Tuchel and Chelsea, when they decided that Mendy was a better penalty stopper than Arrizabalaga. But it's puzzling, isn't it? And what Stephen was saying about, well, how do you explain that to both keepers? Yeah, and that's the difficulty, isn't it? And it is trying to keep both of them happy. So, do you sort of say to one of them, well, these are your strengths, these are the games that you're going to play in if the game slightly changes. And I need my other keeper to come in because they're better at those sort of things. But it's hard, because I think when you speak to goalkeepers, they like to know that they're the number one, don't they? They like to know that. But do you not think that goes back to the discussion of, David Rye is almost in a better position because he's the one who's coming into the club. Aaron Ransdale didn't expect that to happen, did he? Or I wouldn't have thought he would have. No. So, David Rye knows his position going into it. Whereas Ransdale's almost like, I don't know what's going on. No, and he's saying the right things because he's come out and he said, well, bring on the competition. You know, I'm confident in my ability. I've done well for Arsenal. I'm going to keep this number one shirt. But yeah, if our tether is just going to rotate, then that's something maybe that you have to just accept. There's going to be certain games you play, certain games you don't. As a defender, would you have found it unsettling if your keeper was changing halfway through a game, or would you not even pay any attention? Oh, no, 100 per cent. It depends on the style of the goalkeeper. It depends who you're playing with. I remember when I was at Liverpool and we had Pepe Reina, he'd come for every cross. He'd come and make sure that he cleared everyone out. Whereas when I went to Blackburn, suddenly you had Brad Friedl, who didn't want to come off his line. That wasn't his strength. His strength wasn't being a sweeper keeper, making sure that... So, you had to change the way you played your game, and that does take a lot of adjusting to. Now, can you adjust with playing in training? Not really, because it's fake in training. You're not playing a high line in training. You don't often play 11 v 11 in training, so it's a completely different sort of dynamic in training. But trying to adjust to that within a game, it could be difficult. I think from a point of view of playing out from the back, you could adapt quite easily, but defensively it could be different. PSV on Wednesday. I haven't been in the Champions League since 2017. North London derby, Sunday. Which is the bigger game? Oh, that's a tough question. Sorry, Sue. They're both big! Well, of course, I think when you're Arsenal, of course you want to win both of them, don't you? You want to be successful in the Champions League. And, you know, that's something that I'm sure that the fans will really enjoy that. But it's the North London derby, which again is something that the fans will absolutely want to win. Because of the way that Tottenham are playing, because of the buzz around Tottenham at the moment, it just makes it a real, I suppose, interesting game. And it'll be interesting to see the players who they're going to bring in. So Havertz didn't start. Is Havertz going to start midweek? You think goalkeeper situation. There's lots of things. And we spoke about Arsenal previously, didn't we? And we sort of said the disruption that they'd had, maybe with that back line changing positions, players not quite playing. Obviously, Timber being out injured, maybe caused part of that disruption. So there's lots of little intricate details, I think, that we're looking at for both those games. But of course, Arsenal want to win both of them. So completely sat on the fence. Well answered. Stephen? Sunday. Sunday is the bigger game. I think they expect to beat PSV. I think it's different if it's Barcelona or Real Madrid coming. And you think that's a huge, huge challenge then of where you're at. I think they'll think we're good enough to beat PSV. And that's not being disrespectful to PSV. They're a good team, but I'd expect Arsenal to win that game. The challenge then on Sunday is Tottenham are improving. We're not quite at our best. We want to set down a marker to say who's going to finish higher in the league because expect them both to be competing for, well, Arsenal to compete for the league, but Tottenham to be pushing for those top four spaces. But that's the bigger game for me.