People Matter EP04 | Thiết kế lộ trình phát triển nhân sự | Hồ Thị Bạch Quyên- CHRO Pharmacity

When they become famous, the new position that they have will be enough to create a bigger chair than the chair they are sitting on right now. There will be continuous feedback and feedback at the right time that will help that person to recognize themselves better and they can have the right adjustments. The factor I call the young grasshopper, I miss that person so much and I know it's him. In the 90s, it was a pity to take him to school. I lost a good professional, but I didn't have a good manager. I will also have the opportunity to talk about business development. It's not just that I have to sing, then I have to do business development. A new content from Viet Success talks about the important themes of human resources. It covers the closely related aspects of effective business operation with senior experts and HR managers from leading companies in Vietnam. People Matter, the first season, covers the important themes in the field of human resources with the support of strategic partners, Uptrend, solving the first-class business space in Vietnam. Today, I am very honored to be invited here by a guest, a person who I can say has had more than 15 years in the business and more than a very long time. He started his career in a multinational company, Pepsi Vietnam. He is now the HR Director of Pharma City. Bach Quyen. Hello Quyen. Hello Mr. Giang. Hello Viet Success audience. I think the first question of the day is what motivated you to be so committed to your career for so long? I know that you were a management trainee at Pepsi, right? That's right. Actually, when I look back 16 years ago, when I first started, after I finished school, at that time, there was no school that taught about human resources. It was also the first year that PepsiCo had a trainee management program in Vietnam. It is a job that chooses people. That's it. When I joined the trainee management program, I had the opportunity to experience different teams, different departments, and I found a connection between my personality as well as my strengths. And it's related to human resources. So from then on, there was a connection to human resources. That's it. And I think if we look back at Quyen's journey, starting with being a trainee manager, and now a HR Director of a retail company, which has more than 1,000 stores, I'm sure we'll have a lot of stories today. I'd like to ask, at the moment, with the job of HR Director at Pharma City, what do you think you've done that has been effective to help you build your career path at Pharma City? First of all, it starts with the issues of human resources. It starts with how you look at the organization, the distribution of departments, and the gaps between positions, from the front-line positions to the back-line offices, to the distribution centers. How does it work? We'll build a platform first. That platform is also related to the structure of the salary. How does the salary structure follow that platform? But from then on, there will be an element of different capabilities for different positions. How does it connect to a shared organizational framework? It will lead to the task of building a capability framework, as well as identifying the business priorities and what they are at the moment. And from those business priorities, it will be related to where the talent groups are that you can focus on investing in so that you can focus on the resources and efforts of those groups. So you can identify the organization's capability framework and identify the talent groups that you can focus on and develop, right? That's right. In your opinion, how important is it to build a successful business development process at the company? Why is that important? First, I will look at the two elements. There is an element that will help that person have a sustainable development at the company. In that, I said that, first, there are maintenance elements. I mean, there are elements that, if you don't do those elements well, it will create frustration or discomfort when working. But if you do more, you do a lot more of those elements, it will not create a long-term motivation for the employee. A long-term motivation. That's right. It is a maintenance element. It is a maintenance element. It is an element such as salary, such as the working environment, or the relationship between colleagues. Of course, for example, I said, if the salary is not guaranteed, it will affect the motivation to work. But there is a stage when you increase it to a certain level, according to surveys, if it is higher than that level, people will be happy for a while. But after that, we will forget that happiness. So how do people continue to feel that they are very happy and very committed to their work? Then it will say, secondly, it is an element of motivation for the employee. Maintenance element and motivation element. Motivation element. For example, it will talk about promotion in the workplace. It talks about business development in the workplace. It talks about praise in the workplace. Yes. So when they feel okay with the company, I feel that I can grow more every day. I feel that what I have done, I feel that I look back and I feel that those things help me to develop more. That is the thing that creates a motivation for that person to feel very happy when working at the company. It sounds like the thing that people see is that people have progress and progress. And through the fact that people have developed their career path at the company, then that will help create motivation, right, Quyen? There is a belief that don't talk about things that are too far away. About the story that my job is meaningful and I feel mature. For me, how do I go to work? As long as I have enough money and enough salary, that's enough. So what do you think? If there is such a belief, as well as when we develop an organization and there are some businesses or some assumptions that people still follow that path? I think it will go to each step that we prioritize and focus on the business. Because, of course, as I said, like I said about the Maslow Tower, I said, okay, before I said I have to develop my business, I have to improve this and that, but the basic needs, have they been met or not? If there is a business that I see that I still need to improve and focus on those things, then it can still be the initial stage that I have to adjust those factors. But after that, I will not forget that I built a foundation first to prepare for the second phase. When those initial factors have been released, then everyone will be ready to enter the second phase to develop with the company. How do you do that with the companies that you used to work for? I will go around the 70-20-10 model for that. 70% I know I will learn mainly from my daily work. But if everyone can learn from that, then they will be able to create an environment and they will be given opportunities so that they can create a foundation for that opportunity. There are cases, for example, there are groups about entrepreneurship, or there are talents that I identify as people who can fly high, fly far for the company. There are projects that may be a bit too much for them now, but it can help them create a foundation so that they can accumulate experiences for themselves. 20, for example, 20% will learn from my colleagues or from my managers. There will also be programs for them to learn, but learn in a systematic way, not just learn from others. For example, programs like Show and Share, a part-owner of this room will share experiences for a larger group, not just for this room, but for other rooms as well. For example, a marketing person will talk about how to build a brand, and how it relates to that person's personal brand. Those who are interested can participate in that topic. Or for myself, for example, I work in HR, but I can share about skills, about how to understand EQ, or how to do interview skills. Those who are interested can still participate to learn about that. Through the fact that there is a joint sharing of the room with each other, as well as there are programs that are called training or mentoring from senior managers, it is also a program to build 20% and learn from others. What about 10%? 10% will be official courses in the classroom, but it's not just learning on the spot. But now, as we know, online learning is also very popular so that people can be flexible and organize their work. In addition, there are also short-term learning forms, but they learn things that can be applied to their work. We call it bi-size learning. These are courses that can be shared for 1-2 hours, but I can highlight a few special points that we can apply to our work. So I understand that building a career path starts with building a learning culture to give people the experience that they are improving and progressing every day. I know that we have 1,000 stores in Marchete. Yes. And at this moment, more than 90-95% of store owners are starting from the bottom. Yes, that's right. I remember that the number is even higher. How do you do that? Depending on the nature of the industry, there will be different expectations for both business and work. For example, for customers, there are 3 factors that you need to focus on. The first factor is related to your expertise. Especially in the pharmaceutical industry, there is a very high standard for the pharmaceutical industry. So for pharmacists, you will be divided into 3 different levels. And to get through those levels, you have to make sure that your working time, you have to make sure that you go through the scientific expertise of the pharmaceutical industry, and you have to pass those tests so you can go up from a different level. In terms of expertise, how will you achieve the EPC? It's not just about the ability frame, but it's also about the culture that goes with building that ability frame. For example, for store managers, I really share the spirit of being the boss. So you will feel that it's not just a pharmacy store, but it's your own store, because you own that store. With that spirit of being the boss, you will determine what you have to do to make the store better. Whether you provide a good customer service, or you can manage the cost more effectively. You will think in many different ways. With that spirit of being the boss, I don't want it to be just posters hanging on the wall, but you have to really see that they are very common around you, and you have to learn from them. At that time, they will be the mirrors that you can see that this person really lives up to that culture and value. For example, I have a group that deals with non-metallic medicines. Non-metallic medicines are medicines that also have a focus on the company. Whenever those medicines reach the target, or reach new business goals, those store managers will be the ones who actually share what they have done to help that store reach those goals. When you hear those stories, you realize that those people are not from far away, but they are very close to you. There are a lot of businesses out there that really want to do that. They really want to do it so that they can only build for a mid-level team. It's not like hiring from outside, but they are facing a lot of obstacles. I think one of the first obstacles is that people don't know that the feet of a store manager has the ability to specialize or to be a leader. If you had the opportunity to meet those businesses, what would you tell them? When we talk about the ability to be a leader for each group, I think there are three factors. The first is self-management. How you manage your time, how you plan your work, how you solve problems. That's self-management. The second factor is how you manage others. At that point, you have a wider reach. You understand the strengths and weaknesses of your employees. You can give them the right jobs and build on their strengths. Those are the problems of managing others as well as managing your employees' achievements. The third factor is organizational management. Organizational management can have an impact on the whole organization. Organizational management can turn those tools not only into procedures but also into services for your work. For example, how you manage your achievements, how you manage your work, how you evaluate your employees at the end of the year so that your employees can get good rewards or tools so that you can get feedback from your employees or from the managers in the middle. That's the third factor. There's a saying that feedback is the light of the house. Continuous feedback at the right time will help them adjust themselves to the space. It's not about whether you sit there or not. It's about the work effect. Today, we're talking about the career development process. There are two words related to promotion. As a HR manager, have you ever encountered a situation when you promote an employee and you get negative feedback and feel unfair? In such a situation, as a HR manager, how do you deal with it? I will consider whether that person has enough conditions and ability for promotion or not. I will talk a little bit about the conditions before I talk about the ability. The conditions are related to the time of that person and their achievements in the past few years so that I can see the stability of their achievements instead of being too high or too low. Those are the conditions. When they promote, their new position will have enough space to create a bigger position than their current position. As for the conditions, they are related to multiple assessments from different perspectives. For example, I have a 360-degree survey from my colleagues, employees, and managers to get multiple assessments. Or I have an assessment on the ability of that person to show their value. I will summarize the information to talk about the criteria for promotion. The criteria for promotion need to meet the requirements. You have been in a multinational company for more than 15 years. You must have experienced both environments. In your opinion, what are the advantages of working in a multinational company that is very effective and well-known? You have been working there for 15 years and you still think it is well-known and many people know about it. For example, there is a program to promote human resources. In the past, PepsiCo had a program to promote human resources in 200 countries and territories. Now, there is a program to promote human resources not only in terms of geography but also in terms of learning from each other. Although you are still in the same country, you can learn from other countries. For example, there are platforms to know the current status of other countries and their projects. If you still like to participate in other projects besides your job, you can learn more from those projects. For example, there is a program called Talent Class House where you can meet high-ranking leaders in other regions and meet them to learn about their strengths and what they want to do in the future. You will know them and you can consider their positions in the region. There are also competitions about new ideas and creative ideas. You can compete with other countries and regions to choose the best ideas that the company is willing to invest to make it come true. There are also creative ideas about talent but location-free. There is no limit to one place. For example, I was the regional manager for Asia, including Southeast Asia, North Asia, Japan, Korea, etc. But I could still stay in Vietnam because I could stay anywhere. I didn't have to stay in Thailand. You can stay in other countries but you can still manage your business in the region. What do you think makes it location-free? Especially after the pandemic, you can still work anywhere but it's not effective. What do you think organizations can do to maintain and design new ways to ensure efficiency? I think it's about human resources to ensure the efficiency of the organization. First of all, even if you work in the region or in another country, it's about building initial goals from the management perspective. There are many different ways to manage the region, not just directly but also by building initial goals. There will be regular meetings not only in the middle of the year but also at the end of the year to adjust and work together. Secondly, I think we should work together and not just sit around and wait. It's about working together to know who will do what and who will get the information and who will decide what to do and how to work together. We can use a model like DICE or RACI which are four-letter words. DICE stands for Design, I stands for Inform, C stands for Counsel, and E stands for Execute. You mentioned about the feedback and understanding. How does it play a role? There is a saying that feedback is the light in the dark. It's important because it helps self-awareness to know what to do and what to do better. I've had good cases but I didn't have good feedback so I was a bit confused about my ability. At the end of the year, I got feedback from my manager and colleagues and I was surprised. When there is continuous feedback at the right time, it will help self-awareness and adjustment. The feedback is important because it helps self-awareness to know what to do better. We are talking about the role and importance of building a culture of giving and receiving feedback. I think all businesses want to do that. But in reality, it's very difficult. In reality, what do you do to build a culture of giving and receiving feedback? At the beginning, people didn't fully believe in the meaning of what we do. So there were some doubts. For example, when you evaluate your manager, you will have a chance to share your opinion. At first, people thought it was a good idea. But after you built it up year by year, you will have a chance to evaluate your manager. At that time, you will see that you want your manager to be better than you. The evaluation is based on 9 criteria. You don't have to have personal preferences. For example, I don't like that person because they don't have the same point of view as me. 9 criteria? For example, whether or not they support the staff in time. Whether or not they praise the staff at the right time. And it's completely based on the leadership ability. Based on the leadership ability, you will have those criteria. Based on those criteria, you will be evaluated. After the evaluation, it's not just about that. After the evaluation, what you do next is also very important so that people can see that the person has to change. After that, when the result is out, there will be a building bridge to connect the manager and the staff. At that time, the staff also plays a very important role in those connecting sessions. Those sessions, the manager will sincerely share the results of the sharing after the evaluation. Some managers may say, the average result is how many points, how many factors are high, how many factors are low. But some managers will say, these are the top 3 strengths that the group evaluates for me and these are the top 3 things that I think I need to improve. They can share it like that, it's okay. But after that, the next step is that the manager will go out and not go to those sessions but only to the staff to create comfort for the staff. At that time, they will say in more detail but the important thing is how to help the manager to do it. What are the top 3 things that the manager should maintain? What are the things that the manager should start doing and what are the 3 things that the manager should stop doing? After that, the manager will come back to that meeting ready to welcome the group's feedback. And when they receive it, they will say, these are the 3 things that I committed to improve. And those actions will be reversed in the evaluation process. For example, after the next 5 sessions when the manager builds his goals, he will say, these are the actions that I committed to do. And we will gradually increase the number of sessions so that we don't create a random action to welcome and give feedback but we will build it into a culture. As you said, it is a proper process with steps to create a safe environment for the staff and we do it regularly. In your experience, what are the mistakes that you commit or that you limit in building the culture of feedback? I remember a situation when I did the meeting for a senior manager and when I talked about 1 part 3 he cried and his heart was overwhelmed and so was mine so I decided to stop and do another session to calm him down and continue. So when I experienced that situation I thought first I had to create a safe environment for the person to receive feedback so when I come back I will prepare for the senior manager so that at least he will know if there is something uncomfortable in his group before he receives detailed feedback from his group and second it should be based on the basis of the group because in that session there are some emotional factors that affect the person's feelings when they receive feedback and third I think the frequency of feedback is very important because in that case he doesn't know the feedback while he works with me very often but he never hears anyone talking about it and that was the first year so I have to give him feedback whenever he needs it and I don't have to wait until the next year I really miss that young man and I know that he is not good at school but I don't have a good manager so I have to take care of his career I have been talking a lot about middle-level management and high-level management if you look at my journey I think the organizations have done something to help a trainee step by step to become a HR manager at a big company in Vietnam Thank you for your time I think we can build different training models for the managers for example for the new managers there are first-time managers for the first time managers for the new managers and for the middle-level managers there are coaching managers for the middle-level managers to train the team and for the top managers to train the top managers for the top managers for the business to train the top managers to train the top managers but there are also B6K to discuss the B6K exchange information with each other, and learn from each other about that. And actually, with senior management, the feedback is also a continuous process. Because in fact, it's also a bit difficult when you're a senior manager, maybe your reception is not as good. It's hard. Yes, it's getting harder and harder. So, although outside of programs like 360 degrees, every year, we still have programs called Manager Quality Program, so that the managers can receive feedback from the employees about how they are, and they can only choose about 2 or 3 factors that they think they need to focus on to improve. We've talked a lot about success and effectiveness. So, are there still mistakes or lessons that you've learned over the past 15 years in building career development for employees? In terms of career development, actually, there were opportunities for talents to consider and develop. But on the other hand, there's the so-called youth gap. Youth gap. Yes, youth gap. Maybe you're too short. You don't have enough resources. And you know that you're not ready to reach 80%. According to the new position, you've only reached 70%. The gap is still a bit far. But you're too short. So, you have to push that person up so that you can have that job and help that person develop. But the main thing is not there yet. It's not there yet. So, there are still lessons to be learned. For example, you lose a good professional, but you don't have a good manager. For example. So, that's the first mistake. As Quyen said, it's a waste of time. So, with a fast-growing business and a hot one, how can we limit the youth gap but still ensure that we hire the right people and have the right people for the organization's development? Yes, that's actually a complex question. I think first we need to create a mechanism so that everyone can try their best together. It may not be a sudden increase, but it's a period of time where you temporarily have that right. We call it acting. It means you experience it first. You try it first. You try it first, yes. You try it first with that. So, everyone will know that this person is just trying it first. This person hasn't officially taken that position yet. So, everyone will have more tolerance. Ah, the expectation of this person will be different from a manager who chose you for that role. How is it? It also opens up a chance for this person to come back to their old position after they feel that they are not good enough and continue their professional work. And it can also be a transition between different areas. Maybe when they work in that area, they will also have the pressure to prove those issues. For example, when we do programs about the editorial board, we have a lot of shifts. A lot of them are sales, but we go to another area and try our best with that position. So, from the perspective of other areas, they will see that this person came here to learn, to know, to find out for a while, but he will also go back to that area. So, they will also have some tolerance that they are ready to share as well as help that person. And when this person has a solid foundation, they can go back to their old position and take on that new position. Is there any other mistake, Quyen? I think businesses often encounter this. I don't think it's a mistake, but it's always a result of the training process. The problem is that we can evaluate the quality of the training. Because usually, after the training, we have the evaluation of the students. We say, ah, the quality of the training is very good, and so on. Okay, I'm satisfied with that. It also evaluates the quality of that lesson. But what happens after the lesson? After the training is over? I forgot. How do people apply that lesson? Or do people forget, and then we have to re-train for that? So, after the programs, when we build things like Frontline Manager, the programs that are built for the front end, we usually learn them all. A 3-day, 5-day course, it's like we go to a place, and then everyone learns, and that's it. But now, we will split it into small modules. Ah, split it up. Yes, split it up. The students learn this, then they apply it, then they do exercises, then they do projects, to show that, for example, we learn about tools to evaluate people's personalities. For example, you use that tool to evaluate your team. Then we choose two people that we think can help them improve certain aspects, for example. Then we present the results to the board, and then the board evaluates whether it's okay or not, whether it's good enough, so we can move on to the next module. The third thing I think is the story of the subordinate force. Because usually, we want to be in a position where we can choose, we will choose, we will choose, we will choose. But there are stories when I look at the team, I say, I encourage this person or that person to try that position. Then they usually say, no, I don't dare, I'm scared. I mean, being in that position, I think there's a lot of pressure, and I think I'm not ready for that kind of thing. But when we don't have a process to build that subordinate force, Right. It's like a right. Yes, yes. It means that you will, maybe it's not as stressful as you think, but because you don't understand what the subordinate force is, and the distance between you and that position is far, you will still see a fear in it. But when you have a way to build a subordinate force that maintains it, for example, there are steps to understand what the file of that person is, and what the file of that person is. There is a discussion between the three rooms. Because usually the talent is not only in that room, but it can also be in the middle of this room and that room. And know in advance that that person may have two or three options for them to move through. And what the company invests in them. So when you have time and effort to prepare for those steps, then when you harvest the fruit, it will be better than pushing them up and they are not ready to prepare for the new job. That's it. Is there any difference between running a business for a Vietnamese business and a multinational business like PepsiCo? I think about the common conditions, there are still some common points to share with each other. Earlier, I shared about the strengths when working at PepsiCo. Now I will share with a business, for example, Pharma City. I also discovered some interesting things at Pharma City. First, I think about the speed of working and connecting with other departments. I am a Vietnamese business and I focus on the Vietnamese market. So there are some things that I can make quick decisions and I can do it right away so I can catch up with the progress of that project. For example, in a multinational company, when I make a new product, it will take about a year, year and a half, maybe two years. That's right, two years. That's in the fast-growing industry. But you can make it in time. That's right. For example, I can take 3-4 months to make a new product. When the talent develops, they can take advantage of this speed so that I can have ideas, have proposals and when those proposals are approved, I can implement them quickly. I can make those proposals quickly. I can do it quickly, I can fix it quickly. But that's right, that's right, that's right. Thank you.