People Matter EP02 - Chiến lược Phát triển Nhân tài | Hương Nguyễn TGĐ NADH Consulting

More than 50% of people think that it's because of their direct bosses. It's one of the reasons why the number of Vietnamese talents is decreasing. All organizations will come up with a budget that is a bit idealistic. But in reality, are we attractive enough? The number of employees in the market or not? The strategy for business and the strategy for people has to go hand in hand. The leaders see how important people are. Because they are the first ambassadors. A new content from VIET SUCCESS discusses the important themes of human rights work around the closely related aspects to the effect of business operations with experts and senior human rights directors from leading companies in Vietnam. People Matter, the first season, covers the important themes in the field of human rights with the support of strategic partner Uptrend, the first space solution for human rights work in Vietnam. I'm Minh Giang, and I'm very honored to be the host of this show. I'm currently the co-founder of Newin, a company specializing in leadership development for itself, the team, and changing the behavior of the organization. Our guest today is very honored. I think that most human rights directors and business owners in Vietnam know about her. She is a well-known figure in Vietnam. Her name is Ms. Nguyen Thu Huong. With more than 17 years of experience in the field of high-level human rights, Ms. Huong used to be the CEO of PolyAssociates and has been a partner of RGF Executive Search for more than 3 years. Currently, Ms. Huong is the co-founder and CEO of NADH Consulting. And I'm very happy to welcome Ms. Huong as our guest today. Hello. Hello, Giang. After 17 years, what do you think you have achieved as someone who has been a partner of many Vietnamese businesses as well as Vietnamese leaders in attracting and maintaining high-level human rights? Perhaps Giang's introduction speaks a lot about me. Belief and experience are what I have after more than 17 years in the business. The introduction, for example, if you want to find a suitable opportunity for yourself or you want to find a suitable actor for yourself, you have to find Huong. Huong will answer all those questions for you. That is what I have achieved the most. That is experience, right? Yes, experience. I still remember one time, I had a chance to talk to a high-level human rights officer at a Daijo company in Vietnam. I remember that person shared with me one of the reasons why he accepted that position to work at Daijo was because he had a conversation with me. I want to ask more about for you, when you attract and hire high-level human rights officers, it's really hard, right? What did you do that was effective? What do you think affected that decision? For me, when I was working as a mic-operator, the importance of a mic-operator like me in a high-level human rights office is that I have to understand, have to understand the needs of the parties. When I talk to customers or high-level human rights officers, I use my time to go with them to understand what they need, what they have, and what they want to achieve. Through stories like that, I help them, open up to them. The things they haven't realized yet, right? That is how I help them realize that I have that, I have that potential. That is also the story of the human rights officer that you just mentioned. Yes. In a context, if a business wants to train people who are in charge of hiring high-level human rights officers in companies, they are internal people, so that they can have the same skills as you, so that they can understand the staff, and how to share the story so that the staff can open up their potential. In your opinion, if we can bring that skill to convey or share, what do you think internal human rights officers need to do? How do they need to start? When customers ask what is your value? Like people in my field, I say it's knowledge and time. When you understand a customer's request, you have to learn from the human rights officer. First, ask what their request is. Then, you have to learn from everyone around that organization. To understand from every angle, how they see the organization's future. That is time and investment. To understand, to have the most complete picture. To understand the customer's request. I used to work as a high-level human rights officer in Navigos. To be honest, I think sometimes I am too fast. When I receive a request, I will jump in to find the staff. But I don't have enough knowledge and time to find out what the organization's expectation for this position is. And what they need. Thank you so much for sharing that with us today. You also talked about how difficult it is for businesses to find you when you are in a difficult position. How difficult is it? Can you tell us more? It's not difficult. The important thing is to make them understand if their request is fulfilled. When you put a problem together, usually all organizations will come up with a solution that is ideal. For example, everyone will come up with the most ideal job description. But in reality, with this job description and within the company's context, how many employees are there? Are there enough employees in the market? I will accompany the customers step by step. Ideally, I will look at the market's response and accept it. Then I will respond to the customers. If the response is not high, then I will have to come up with other solutions. Customers have reasons why they want it. But I have to prove to them that in all the jobs that I do, I have to have data to show them how the response is in the market. Only then will I be able to convince them. Can you share an example or a specific example where customers start to be very ideal about the position's requirements and then through your co-operation and the way you test the market and co-operate with the customers to adjust the requirements? Can you share a specific example? I work for leaflet companies. When I work with leaflet companies, they are very big companies. They have a big reputation. However, during the process of doing it, I realized that the human resources market has a lot of prejudices. Prejudices about the leaflet industry? Yes, about the leaflet industry. When you look at the human resources market, you can see that they have a big reputation. Their investment in human resources is very good, but why is it still hard to find people? After I have mapped the whole market, I work in a field that I can't speak Vietnamese, it's called talent mapping. When I do talent mapping, I give my customers a complete picture of the market. Can you share about the technology called talent mapping for the companies? What does it look like? Talent mapping is a specialized service that helps companies answer the question whether the talent is ready for them or not. At that time, you have to have a specific topic for your customers. What do they want to focus on? After they have a specific topic, where do they start from? We have to understand the context. From there, we develop a methodology that we do research to see what data we have to help them answer the question. To make it easier, let's give a specific example. For example, a company is looking for a CFO. Their topic is a technology business. I need a CFO. How many CFOs can meet my requirements? Huong will give a solution for talent mapping. That service will help you set your target audience. Based on the target audience, who is it? Which organization or industry and their position. After that, we provide the data. After both sides have reached an agreement, your job starts. After you have a full picture of the market, you have to find out how many companies do the same thing. How many companies have the same position? Not only that, you have to find the people below to see if they have the ability to answer whether or not this market exists. If it exists, how many? So talent mapping answers the question whether or not this market exists and how many? That's right. About 2 years ago, a leading company in another country asked me to be a foreign director. With the same position, they asked for a full knowledge of foreign affairs, government relations, and press relations. But in reality, there aren't many talented people like that. It's a market limitation. With talent mapping, as you just shared, it helps customers answer why it's difficult. Why is talent mapping so difficult? Talent mapping is one of the reasons why there are fewer talented people in Vietnam. How do you plan your business? You have to start from there. They are already trained, do they know how to do it? Most businesses are complaining about high-level talents. Some even say that there are too many people who are not capable to lead that position. It's difficult to find people who are capable and have leadership skills. What do you think about that? Recently, I've noticed that I have to say goodbye to them. Too many, right? It's a phenomenon that I can say that it's a bloodbath. They are the ones who are successfully trained and developed in certain positions. That's one of the reasons why there are fewer talented people in Vietnam. The uncertainty of life and the lack of knowledge and skills are not being met in time. That's one of the reasons. Another reason is the educational system between business and education. I think that there is a gap in the development of knowledge. Why is it that there is a gap and a lack of knowledge? As an expert in consulting, coordinating, recruiting and hiring high-level personnel, do you have any advice for your business so that they can pay more attention and do better? There are too many requirements and too few resources. When it comes to investing in people, it takes a lot of time. The strategy for business and strategy for people have to go hand in hand. How do you plan your business? How do you plan and develop people? When I worked with foreign businesses, before they entered the market, they looked at the human resources in Vietnam. There are technology companies. Yes. They asked me which schools in Vietnam could train the skills. They looked very far. Or when I worked with Intel, before Intel entered Vietnam, 2-3 years ago, they recruited very early and trained their employees in their countries. By the time they started manufacturing, they had already recruited their employees. There is a story about a training program. Most companies do it. But for those companies, training is not enough and not fast enough. It takes a long time to get to that level. So what I did with them was a talent mapping for the positions they are going to open for their employees to create expectations. I will see how many positions the human resources in Vietnam are ready for. The next program will be middle management. They have internship programs, talent mapping programs for senior positions, and a talent mapping program for junior positions so they can develop into senior positions in a short period of time. They go from the bottom up and from the top down. But the unique thing about this program is that they find the potential human resources in junior positions so they can develop into senior positions. If there is a shortage, they can bring in experts from other countries and develop this middle management into senior management. That's how I learned about this business. It's a journey that they look forward to. Because humans cannot develop in a short period of time. You mentioned about a company that started building senior positions by hiring middle managers and building them to become senior managers. But I have a question that I want to ask. When you invest and become a senior manager, what is your goal? If you are the owner of the business, how can you make sure it doesn't happen? I think there are two issues that business owners need to ask. First, if they are trained and know how to maintain their positions. If you have trained them, you need to know how to maintain them. You need to know how to develop them. Second, in business, there are different ways for you to develop. Because the higher your position is, the less opportunities you have. If you don't have enough opportunities, for example, the top managers don't go anywhere. If you don't train them, if you don't arrange them to go anywhere, they won't go anywhere. It's like a blocker. You need to organize your staff. If you are at the top, you need to go further. Where do you go? Where do you arrange your staff? But in this case, you don't know where to go. It's like a financial manager. There is only one financial manager. In that situation, how do you organize your staff? If the company's scale doesn't develop, then it's a blocker. If the scale develops, on the top level, you will go to different positions. For example, when you develop a branch company, I see that there are companies that are not HR managers, but there are people who become HR managers. Yes. So you need to have that path. If you don't see the new growth from here, foreign companies have many opportunities to do that. Vietnamese companies also need to see how big and far their business is when they make a strategy. In the next 3-5 years, how will I develop? And this is like a pet. Where will they live in the next 3-5 years? Yes. I think those companies have enough resources and time to do that. But for those companies that are developing fast, how can they make a difference and attract high-level talents? Of course, you need to buy talents from abroad. Are companies ready to buy? Yes. How can they integrate with the organization? The cultural aspect is also very important. The important thing is the business owner has to be ready to know about those stories and create situations for the organization to adjust for both sides. One of the biggest hospital chains in Vietnam I'm working with them on a very big project. To find those high-level talents in that field in Vietnam is very difficult. Very difficult, right? Very difficult. The calculation is from the side, from the surrounding areas. The next step for those companies is to develop their team. Especially the management team of the hospital which is very rare in Vietnam. So buying talents from abroad is not just for the organization to operate. The second big goal is to build a team for them to take over those high-level positions. Because in a hot period they don't have enough people to do those tasks. So they have to borrow talents from other countries. That's temporary. Building is the long-term goal. Looking back, you can see that there are strategies like building. Like what you just shared, not only building from low-level positions, but also from middle-level positions to prepare for high-level positions. Then buying. Buying means hiring from abroad. Then borrowing. Borrowing means borrowing from other markets. But at the same time, you have to make sure that the team below can continue to learn. More than 50% of you think it's because of your direct boss. I hope that hiring managers are also your asset interviewers because they see how important people are because they are your first ambassadors. The word I hear is whether businesses are ready to invest, to attract, to pay, to borrow, to buy those talents and are ready to prepare for their culture to be suitable for them. In my opinion, is that one of the mistakes that businesses are not doing well because they are not ready? When I have the opportunity to interact with them, business owners usually tell me that they are ready. But the more I ask if they are ready here, for example, if they are ready to invest. Because I always say that investing in people is very long-term. Are they ready? It's not like investing in a technology where you can see the money. For example, in business, you can see that people need time. Recently, I was working in Vietnamese business. I told her that I was missing a lot of positions. And she told me that she really wanted to think about how to pass on the knowledge to others. So I asked her if she was ready. The first question was if she was ready. If she was ready to pass on what? How many people are working in your organization? Because if they can't answer those questions, it means they are not ready. Or she asked if she needed people from foreign companies to help her. I also asked her if she knew what problems she would face when she invited them to come back. First, about culture. Second, about policies. She told me to wait and see. The more I ask, the more I know how ready they are. So you always have to keep asking to know how ready they are. Attracting high-level talents and retaining them depends on the perspective of the leader. Exactly. If the leader doesn't see attracting talents as a priority, it will be very difficult. Exactly. Because the leader sees it as a priority. It's like a guide for everyone to follow. In my experience of more than 17-18 years of high-level talents, I see that in this situation where many people don't have enough money to attract them, if you had to choose 3 things that the leader needs to focus on to do well in this situation, what would it be? It depends on the market. But more importantly, the business owner or the leader sees the talent as a priority. There are businesses that need to give employees a day off but the message and the way they communicate when they leave but when they come back one day, they will stay. When they come back, the leader will see how important the talent is and the way the business owner conducts himself. Because they are the first ambassadors for the business. The first brand ambassadors for the business. And they set the tone for the business and for everyone. I don't know if you have this situation when the business owner recruits a senior employee and pays a high salary to attract them. There is always a rush or a desire to see results for those senior employees. For you, what are the factors that can measure the success of a senior employee? Usually, when I recruit senior employees for Vietnamese businesses, I have to set the tone and the position of the employee to tell the story for the business owner to understand their readiness to accept senior employees or not. How can I help them to understand the culture of the business? And I accompany the business to do that. Usually, I accompany Vietnamese businesses very closely to give them solutions to make them harmonious. What are those solutions? For example, let's talk about the policy. First of all, I have to let the business owners know the income level of these people in the market. How is it? Are you ready for your business? Or I will design packages to first, the business doesn't feel that they pay too much at first, but when the employees come in and prove it, they will be appreciated. So you are flexible in how you pay senior employees by designing like you said so the business doesn't have to pay too much and get paid. That's right. It's a way to reduce the pressure. As you said, a senior employee with their income will destroy the whole business system. So I usually provide solutions. I usually have meetings with the business and senior employees. I have to accompany senior employees for 6 months to a year because they need a lot of things and they need to be flexible. So your role is like a bridge between the business owner and senior employees. To help them have a common voice. Yes. After today's sharing, there will be a lot of business owners and HR directors who will really care about how to not only attract customers but also make them feel comfortable for 6 months to a year. Yes. Have you ever had a situation where your food was not good for 6 months to a year? Yes. How did you deal with it? I already knew about it. Ah, you knew about it. I had to let all my employees know about it. There are risks. There is a bank which is the leading bank in Vietnam. There is a community of senior employees from abroad. When I brought that interviewer from another market, I put it all on the table for both sides. Especially for that interviewer. Because you have to bring the whole family. I worked with them to analyze the pros and cons. Opportunities and risks. At the same time, I worked with Nghiep. Normally, the higher the risk, the... No pain, no gain. The higher the risk, the greater the reward. That's right. I worked with Nghiep to make it fair. When both sides understood that, I helped both sides to reduce the risk. From what you shared, I see that attracting and hiring senior employees doesn't stop at the drop offer or the day they work. It lasts longer. For senior employees, it lasts 6 months, 12 months. Especially when you work from a foreign company to a Vietnamese one. It takes a long time. Why does it take so long? I have analyzed it before, but in reality, Vietnamese companies develop very fast. Their attitude is also very fast. Sometimes, they don't respond as fast as Vietnamese companies. There's a person from Hanoi that I don't know. When they came to Hanoi, they didn't understand why they had to turn off the lights at 11.30 pm. They thought it was strange. It's a small thing, but it's something we need to share first so they can understand the culture first. You've worked with a lot of companies. Let's go back to measuring the efficiency of hiring. What are the criteria for companies that you've worked with to measure the success of hiring a senior employee? Can you share some criteria? It's relative to the turnover rate. First, it's the ratio of senior employees in 3 months. In 3 months. 6 months. 1 year. That's what people need to consider the most. In that process, they need to know the reason why the ratio is so high. We've measured the ratio, but we need to know the reason why so we can adjust it. How do you adjust the ratio? I'm a bit greedy, Ms. Huong. I think it's hard to invite Ms. Huong. I want her to give advice to business owners as well as those who are hiring senior employees in companies so that they can have charisma in order to attract Ms. Huong so she can recruit her employees. What advice do you think Ms. Huong would give them? I think everyone should be an ambassador of that organization. Because my role is to be an ambassador of that organization. So even though you're an advisor and you work with businesses, you also become an ambassador. I always see you as an ambassador. What's your role? You have to be of that organization. Of that organization. Of that business. You have to understand what the organization needs, what the organization has, and what the organization is aiming for so you can convey that information fully. And the second thing is every leader in the company is a HR director. I see that companies put a lot of pressure on the HR director's role. But according to my observation and statistics, more than 50% of their jobs are directly assigned to them. So all the leaders should be HR directors? What I mean is everyone has to be an ambassador. They're the leaders. They're the managers. They're the mentors. They're the coaches. You mentioned earlier that more than 50% of the HR directors in the industry quit their jobs because of their managers. Yes. I think HR directors are mostly CEOs and business owners. Do you have any advice or advice on how HR directors can do something different tomorrow or next week so they can be more effective in attracting, hiring and maintaining senior HR directors? If it's just a reminder, I hope that hiring managers are the ones who accept them. And the interview should be open and sincere. If they really feel that it's important. If they realize that it's necessary. It's also an opportunity for them to hear feedback from the people they've recruited and worked with for a long time. It's great. Even if they haven't quit their jobs, I think that with your advice, I think we can start asking them tomorrow. Before they quit, right? Thank you so much, Ms. Huong. As I said, I used to work in hiring, but today, I learned a lot from your sharing. It's about a business owner who is really ready to attract, hire and maintain senior HR directors. And another motivation is the word ambassador. No matter if it's a business owner or a senior HR director or a leader in the company, they are ambassadors to understand what the company needs and where it's heading. To love and appreciate it to attract and attract employees. Thank you so much, Ms. Huong for taking the time to be a part of Talk Show People Matter. Thank you so much for listening and sharing this show. On behalf of the organization, I'd like to thank Uptrend, an office rental brand and the best working space in Vietnam. The organization is very honored and we look forward to receiving your support Please subscribe and follow Spotify, Google and Apple Podcasts so that you can hear more stories, skills and experiences in the People Matter series. Thank you and see you next time.