People Matter EP03 - Chiến Lược HR vs Chiến Lược Kinh Doanh? | Nguyễn Tâm Thanh - CHRO Masan Group

A human rights leader is someone who can translate a business strategy into a human rights strategy. As a human rights leader, you have to lead the change, not just follow the change. Developing and maintaining a business culture is an indispensable part of any human rights strategy. You have to start thinking about how to build a culture for your business, to make it unique, not like anyone else, and to be of great importance to the workers. And most importantly, you have to know the balance between the company's interests and the employees' interests. A new content from Viet Success talks about the important themes of human rights work, including the closely related aspects to the effectiveness of business operations, with experts and senior human rights directors from leading companies in Vietnam. People Matter, the first season, the context of important themes in the field of human rights, with the company's strategic partner, Uptrend, solving the first-class work space in Vietnam. I'm Minh Giang, the co-founder of Nguyen Yen Consulting and Training, and also the host of this program. And today, I'm invited here by a guest. I have to say that she is one of the greats in the human rights field of Vietnam, because with experience of more than 20 years in the human rights field, with roles such as human rights director at IKEA Group, and human rights director for Southeast Asia and South Asia at Kagyu Group, and now she is the human rights director at Mastan Group. And that's Ms. Tam Thanh. Yes, hello. Hello, Giang. Yes. I heard that during your human rights career, you were a consultant for KPMG, right? That's right. And that was a milestone in your career. What made you decide to switch from being a consultant to a human rights consultant? That was a coincidence. As you know, I started my career in 1995, and luckily, I was hired by KPMG. KPMG hired me as a consultant, and I was also sent abroad to work during that time. And when I decided to switch from being a consultant to a human rights consultant, it was also a coincidence that I switched from KPMG to Columbia, which is a hospital that you probably know already. It's quite famous in Vietnam. And after that, it was convenient. The boss said, okay, now you're in charge of the rent, and if it's convenient, you can do insurance, salary, recruitment, and so on. So I said, okay, I'll give it a try. Because if I don't try, I won't have a chance. So when I switched and didn't stop there, I started to actively participate in human rights forums. I was also one of the co-founders of the VNSA Club at that time. I also met with human rights activists, and I started to learn more from books and other people. I realized that I really fit in with this human rights profession. Actually, when I realized that human rights work is about creating values that are directly related to the business development as well as the personal development of each employee in the organization. That's the first thing that I think it also shares with my passion. And the second thing is that until now, I think that passion is still there. Because in addition to the fact that through effective human rights strategies, we can also be able to convey and help people, so-called future leaders of the new generation, they have more opportunities to experience and learn from us about how to manage and the leadership skills that bring global identity. So I think that human rights work is also very good if you really understand what values you bring to the organization and to people. In addition to that, you will also be able to develop yourself. Actually, I was also lucky to work for IKEA, BMG, and Kagyu. Those companies usually have the most advanced human rights policies in the world. I also learned a lot and had the opportunity to get in touch with many talented leaders. I went to school a lot and applied what I learned. And I really see the success. And all the people who develop or do better, higher jobs, they all have a mark with their support. I feel very passionate about this field. Very passionate about human development. Yes, that's right. Ms. Thanh, you mentioned two words that I heard. At first, you were a tax consultant. Then you went to the company and did other human rights work. And you felt that you were suitable. So let me ask you. What do you think you are suitable for? I think this question will help a lot of people. I don't know if I am suitable for this human rights field or not. In Ms. Thanh's case, what do you think will help you realize that? Ms. Thanh, let's divide it into two issues. The first is the job of a HR leader. Yes. What is it? Human rights leader. Yes, what is a human rights leader? What do you have that you need to add to it? To become a human rights leader, as you said, first, you have to be a business leader. You have to be good. You have to understand business. You have to talk about business like a real business leader. That's the first thing. Second, you have to be a passionate person and have the ability to train and develop talents in the company. Yes. Third, I think you have to lead the change of an organization. You have to have that ability. You don't have to follow the change. As a human rights leader, you have to lead the change. Fourth, you have to lead the change and always do good things in the culture of the organization. In English, it's called culture steward. You have to lead and manage the change as well as develop the culture of the company. Yes. Lastly, it's important, but many people don't pay attention to it, but it really brings the experience in a wonderful way in the process of running the HR department. For example, you have to have a payroll system. You have to pay your salary on time. Yes. These are the services of HR. I think you have to do that job well so that you can understand that besides HR, you don't just have to do salary and insurance. There are many other things. You have to take responsibility and lead. I think to do a good job as a human rights leader, first, you have to have a mindset to take people seriously. You have to think that when you bring benefits and feel happy when people develop, that's the first thing you have to enjoy. The second is politics and ethics. Doing HR is extremely important. If you have politics and ethics in your job you will gain the trust of others. Trust. We're talking about trust. We're talking about the mindset. That's right. One more thing is that you always think of new things. You always think positively. Because everyone has two sides. The positive side and the side that needs to change. I'm not saying negative. I'm saying the sides that need to change or need to improve. If you have a positive mindset, you will always see the positive in people and focus on that instead of other factors. After listening to Tam Thanh, it seems like all leaders, not just HR leaders, need to have that mindset, right? To take people seriously. People often say that if you're a manager in your team, if you're the head of your team, you should be a HR manager for your team. Yes. People always say that. When I started working at IKEA, in English, it's called the business leader's responsibility is to build the business and people together. It means that when you're the leader, your job is to build the business and build the people together. It's not like, I'm here to build the business for the business and I forgot about the other side. People and employees are the biggest assets of a business. That's what I think. Yes. I believe that all business owners and leaders easily say that people are the biggest assets to them. Right? But for you, the biggest difference is that we know that it's one thing. But in practice, with your role as HR manager of many companies, and recently, I heard that you joined Masan Group. With your experience in all those companies, where do you see the business that has been very effective in making people the biggest assets? Most of the companies that I've worked for, the culture of the business is extremely important. It's the foundation for us to attract and it's also a big point for us to retain talent. The culture of the business is one thing, but leadership skills are also extremely important. For example, you have a good culture, but do all your leaders practice that? It's said that 82% of employees quit their jobs mostly because of their boss. So leadership skills are extremely important. I also think that no one was born to be a good leader. Everything is a process. And the mission of HR leaders is that we have to accompany other leaders and coach them. I don't know if this is right. We coach and advise them to accompany them so they understand why they have to do that. And we have to explain to them and also give them experience. If they make a mistake or do something wrong, they can learn from their mistakes. They also need experience to become a good leader. Maybe I look at the picture very positively because I think that no one was born to be a good leader. But good leaders always have tools to support them so they can manage their employees well. Now, the trend of the market and the world is talent and talent. It's like a battle for talent. But that's not enough, right? You have to have a strategy for people to work together. Even in terms of welfare, you have to make your company special compared to others. There are also strategies that promote well-being. Does your company support them? That's one thing. You always ask me about effective strategy for people. You just said it. Of course, it has to follow the development speed of the business and follow the direction that the business wants. Welfare strategies can't be separated from business strategies. And the person who is a leader has the ability to translate a business strategy into a welfare strategy. And all the partners and employees from business support them and work with them. The manager has to be responsible for the decisions made with the support and advice of the staff to develop and maintain the culture of the business. It's a must in any welfare strategy. It's a strategy. It has to be well-developed and can address the issues that the organization wants to address. When you ask about the question about how to know if you're suitable to be a leader, you have to understand business first. If possible, Ms. Thanh can share a specific story from a business strategy that you translated into a welfare strategy that effectively supports the business strategy as well as the speed and business requirements of the company. I'll share an example that is very practical and easy for everyone to imagine. I used to work in my old company. The business of the company for decades was very good and was one of the best in the world. There was a time when the business grew back in 1-2 years. The profit margin was reduced by 30% or 40% compared to the same period last year. At that time, we invited an expert and an advisor to find out what we knew and what we thought. They showed us a completely different picture of our customers at that time. We had a lot of activities to change the company's strategy in terms of sales and marketing and production strategies. There was a human resources strategy. Thanks to the change in the business strategy, we decided to change our sales team. In the past, sales focused on the management and we thought it was a big deal. We changed everything. We trained more skills for our sales team so that they could serve new customers. We also changed the sales scheme and policies for sales. We also reduced the level of direct work. We gave them a new experience. Although they were managers, they still had to work with customers to understand them better. We didn't just guess. There was a lot in the middle. We changed the scheme, changed the sales team, and changed the structure. We did a lot of change management so that they could understand that we did it for a better business and bring their own values to the customers. After a year, they turned around and we're back to the old track. We also did programs to train sub-teams in sales. I can say that our company was one of the best sales teams in our field. When you think about that experience, what was the biggest challenge that you had when you had to build a humanitarian strategy that was fast? I know that you did a lot in a year. What was the biggest challenge? I think it was the coordination of the organization. We avoided the situation where people would say it was because of humanitarian reasons. We didn't do it that way. The manager had to take responsibility for those changes with the support and advice of the humanitarian team. That was the biggest challenge. The coordination from top to bottom. The independence and autonomy. We had to take responsibility to do it with the support of the humanitarian team. I think that was difficult. If today, the audience are humanitarian leaders and they have to take responsibility to come up with humanitarian strategies that fit the business strategy, and as you said, they are facing the same difficulties as you. That is the coordination of the organization and the support from top to bottom. Can you share how you overcame that challenge? It goes back to the first sentence that you have to understand business. That's right. You have to understand business so you can talk to the business leaders according to their responsibilities. But they will need you because you will have an overview of the company, the market, the employees, and the organization. When you start talking about their responsibilities, you can analyze their strengths and what they need to improve. Even the risks when you change such strategies. I think the risk is something that no one wants. There are risks, but how to solve them to reduce the risk to the lowest level. But the results you bring to the organization and the business are many times higher than the risks. I think that's the key. Of course, you have to use a lot of things and a lot of weapons. You have to coordinate and coordinate with the board. You have to always say I will lead this change with you. You don't have to push them away. You have to understand your employees and your company. You have to understand your company and your business. Is this the right time to do this? Can you leave a bit later? Can you do it in 6 months? Can you do it in 2 months? You have to have a sense of your organization. How are the employees feeling? How do they feel? Do you need their readiness to change? Or do you need time to train them? If I don't change, someone else will. As you said, there are a lot of weapons. Yes, including the story you just shared. You have to spread the word and let people know if you don't change, someone else will. Let's talk about a so-called effective human strategy. What are the factors involved? First, you have to see that it affects the success of your business. Second, an effective human strategy has to be high-level and can address the issues of your organization. For example, in 3 years, how do you want your company to grow? How long will it last? You have to have the same goal as your organization. Second, you have to have a consensus. People say that a human strategy is very important and we have to do it together. Third, an effective strategy has to be well-organized and well-structured. It has to be well-organized and well-structured. It has to be well-organized and well-structured. If you can combine all those factors, I think it's an effective strategy. We have 4 factors to measure an effective human strategy. I heard that from Ms. Tam Thanh. When I heard Ms. Thanh share a lot about the challenges and the way you build a human strategy, I think we are calling 4 words human strategy, but I think if we go into details, that human strategy must include many parts, right? First, you have to have a general strategy for your entire business. What are the factors in it? For example, the factors of attracting talent, developing talent, branding, marketing. For example, you have to have each part depending on your business strategy. Some organizations focus on developing the company's strategic skills. For example, some organizations develop very fast, and innovation is very important. The creative skills. The strategic skills. It depends on the organization and the needs of the organization to focus on what. Under those factors, you also have to divide what it means to attract talent. A, B, C. How do you want to position yourself? Do you want to focus on high-ranking or middle-ranking people? Some companies will focus on attracting new talents. For example, you have to have a lot of details. Then you have to have a whole process from the first year to 3 years. You have to go through each stage. For example, what did you achieve in the first year? The milestone is what you want to achieve. Then you have to divide the time. Who is responsible for what? When do you want to review? A whole strategy plus a plan that you work on is what I call a whole strategic strategy. In general, I think the culture of a business is a must in any human strategy. You have to think about how to build a culture for your business to be unique, not like anyone else who only cares about the workers. You also have to know the balance between the benefits of the company and the benefits of the employees. Why is that? You know, a long-term organization always has a foundation. In the future, when we interview people, I don't mean the older generation, but the future generation like Gen Z, I always receive questions like, what is your business culture? What is your company like? When you join us, in order to understand the culture of a business, what kind of person do you need? Do you want a person who is completely in line with the culture of a business? Or do you want a person who is only a part of it? Actually, people in the future really care about the culture of a business. As you know, a business always changes every year. There are old employees, new employees, so the new employees have to be able to assimilate the culture of a business so that they can have the right perspective to work with that organization. So the culture must never be separated when you build a strategy for the employees. When they look at the culture of a business, they will evaluate themselves whether they always pay attention to that in all their actions and in the way they accompany the employees. I think it's important for everyone in the organization. You just said that there are a lot of young people and the Gen Z generation who care a lot about the culture of a company before they decide whether they want to join the business or not. What has changed from the generation of Gen X, Gen Y to Gen Z? I think the first thing you have to determine and understand is what Gen Z want. It depends on their needs, right? Usually, everything depends on their needs. So now, if you like a comfortable workplace, you want to deliver, you want to create something and you will get something. At the same time, I want a comfortable workplace so I can have time to do other things. That generation is very different from our generation. It starts with their needs and we think about the world today. Now it's a flat world, right? The internet is full of information and you have a lot of opportunities to experience it yourself. For example, go abroad and search what Google has or what Tesla has. They have huge sources of information so they can evaluate what they really like and what culture they like. That also comes back to what you want in your organization. Why do you care about culture? You will find out how the environment and the level of care of the leader towards the younger generation is. The level of transition in the work and creating opportunities for them is what we call work hard and play hard. You do a lot but you do everything and play with yourself. I think that's totally reasonable. When you share this, I'm a bit curious about a milestone. To me, it's a milestone. A milestone change in more than 20 years in a multinational company and you chose to work with a large company in Vietnam, Masan Group. What made you decide to make that choice? Thank you for your question. First of all, Masan Group is the leading consumer service company in Vietnam. With the motto Doing well by doing good. We have about 40,000 employees. 40,000? Almost 40,000 employees in Vietnam and abroad. It's an honor to work for Masan. After working for many years in foreign companies, I think that Masan is a milestone. To this day, I think it's the right choice. I heard it's a Vietnamese company but when I first came in, I didn't feel anything different compared to the places I've worked. The environment is very dynamic. Everyone is very friendly. You can also imagine that Masan is a place of talent gathering. I think it's very famous in Vietnam. You can see a lot of foreign students. I hope that I can bring my experience and knowledge in leadership and human resources all over the world to build a large corporate company in Vietnam to become a large international corporation. It's a heavy responsibility but I feel very excited to work and become a key factor in the success of the corporation. A large number of people who watch People Matter are CEOs and business owners of start-ups, SMEs and companies that are developing rapidly. I think that for those businesses, they may not have the ability to help CEOs develop effective human resources for their businesses. Do you have any experience or advice for these groups so that they can start thinking and trying to develop effective human resources? For businesses like that, the person in charge also needs 5 factors. Of course, we won't do all 5 factors. We can divide them into priorities. For example, 3 years, 1 year, 2 years and 3 years or 5 years later depending on the business development. I think the most important thing is how to attract talents. To go along with the talent-attracting strategy, the strategy of profit-making to create a bond with them in the first stage is extremely important. Secondly, you have to think about building a culture for your business to be unique and unique and to attract workers. I think those are the 3 factors that you should pay attention to. It's very practical. Ms. Tam Thanh, if you had a piece of advice for those who are considering whether they are suitable for this job or whether they really want to succeed in this job, what would your advice be? I think in the workplace, there are many different jobs. In general, the first factor is that you have to see people as important. You have to have that attitude. You have to care about everything. You want people to develop. For example, their development is your happiness. I think that's important. That's the first thing. Secondly, you have to have a passion for this job. There are many difficulties. The best thing is when the staff says, your boss is so good, there are a lot of staff behind you so that it can happen. You have to accept that. The most important thing is you have to have the skills for the staff, such as marketing, training and development, or you want to work in the welfare sector, for example. You have to go deep. You have to understand why you need to do that. You have to like business. Today, I think it's very expensive. I see a lot of HR staff but they don't know how our business situation is. Who are our business partners? In our company, there are many different departments and they don't know what they do. I think you have to learn a lot and try to learn. You can set a goal for yourself. From year 1, where do you learn and how do you learn? You have to be able to give advice to others. You have to be able to help others. When you need to be tough, you have to be tough. When you need to be soft, you have to be soft. Most importantly, you have to know how to balance the benefits of the company and the benefits of the staff. I'm not a police officer but I have to be able to balance the needs of the organization and the benefits of the organization. That's very important. You can evaluate your success in your job by asking yourself how many important meetings have you been invited to? I think that's the easiest and most effective way to know if you're successful in your job. Thank you so much for sharing with us today. I believe that your sharing is very practical and practical for many audiences and brings value to many audiences today. That's how as a human rights leader, the most important thing is that you have to understand and speak the business language. And the human rights strategy needs to have elements that are consistent with the implementation plan and measure. When the human rights strategy is successful, it will have an impact on the business result. As you said, today you can start to set your goals to step by step on the human rights path by identifying the mindset to take human as the center. Do you like to interact with people and support them? Thank you so much, Tam Thanh. Thank you for listening and sharing People Matter. On behalf of the hosts, we would like to thank Uptrend's strategic partnership for hiring offices and working spaces and we hope that you will feel more perspectives and experiences as well as stories through the sharing of the hosts and our guests today. And we hope to continue to receive your support by subscribing to the Viet Success channel and following us on platforms such as Spotify, Google, Apple, Postcard to continue to hear more about People Matter. Thank you.