Rules Are Dumb | How to teach your kids more effectively + easily

rules about what we're not allowed to do are not useful and they create a dynamic that's a huge [Music] bummer hi everybody welcome my name is Jessica hover my friends call me Jess this is I'm Lan deing chent and this is very good enough a podcast from very good Mothers Club anytime I get on Instagram this one girl pops up she's a podcaster I don't know what I'm doing with my hands this time I feel really flowy um I want to know if you know who she is and in this moment I can't really remember but she's like a Tik Tock girl who blew up as a podcaster who like had some drama with Drake they recorded a podcast in a bed together she's a mom of two kids and now her joke is like the industry planted her she basically like I don't really understand the story I mentioned it to Shawn and he knew immediately who I was talking to and I was like or who I was talking about yeah and Google is Auto filling podcaster Drake bed yeah let's see well that'll probably pull it up okay tell me everything well I just I'm trying to understand maybe our audience knows maybe they don't this will be telling she blew up her podcast is so big and she has like huge names on it and I'm just trying to understand how she did that she went from like uh Tick Tock mom to podcasting with Drake in a bed three million Instagram yeah you see her what's her name yeah Bobby ala yes that's her and she's married to someone in Tech and her joke is like the industry planted her and she says like yeah one day the industry showed up at my door and gave me a call and they were like we want to plant you but we want to take 73% of everything you make and she was like sure but she's like funny and her style is super dry where at first you're like is this real she's basically the way I understand it she's like playing a character as she interviews but she took off and I was just wondering if your Instagram shows you her because me and Sean that's what we see all the time that's so interesting I wonder I don't so my personal Instagram account is like no Mom and parenting stuff oh yeah at all because you don't inquiry account is is the parenting one yeah but even that is like I follow I mean I follow a lot of the moms that we interact with I follow a lot of the people I would like to have on this podcast and like people in certain topics and stuff so it's still not like parenting influencer still this girl I didn't even know she was a mom until I was like why does she keep coming up on my feed as an as a podcast I need to follow and then I went back on her Tik Tok I like scrolled so hard to get back to her like breastfeeding so I don't know but yeah my so my a huge array of people that I follow follow her right like a really wide like somebody I follow about U politics and in Afghanistan and someone that's a realtor and like Colin and Samir who are like YouTube people but then also certain of my friends but also music people there's no Ral reason to the number of like people that I follow who also follow this is why I'm bringing her up because I don't understand and I'm intrigued cool and I don't I have no answers do you like does content come up that you're like oh I really like that uh well no first it came up and I was so confused I was like why is she interacting with Charlie poth this way like she wasn't being very nice and I was like if I was interviewing Charlie poth I would be so nice I don't know that is you you do okay you do you definitely do okay my joke about Charlie poth is that I have dm'd him so many times telling him to go on a date with Becca and telling him I would buy him dinner if he would go um he is she is talking about you Becca's over there oh do you hear that remember how I dm'd Charlie poth a bunch of times to be like I think it would be great if you and Becca would go for wings I'll pay for it you'll have a fun time she's really great but I think now he has a girlfriend oh well you should stop engaged man yeah I did once I saw he was dating someone I gave up now I got to find someone else how do you guys like this content where we're just talking to someone else who's not on the mic and they can't hear while we look at our phones you guys like this okay I only know this song from reals this is Charlie F there you go made that song that everybody used in reals for like yeah he's actually like a musical genius Connor and would be such good friends why is he a musical genius Becca what does he do again oh Perfect Pitch Perfect Pitch yeah and he really does have like all these really kind of quirky weird musical things that him and Conor would probably just get along so well so fun yeah but anyway you can switch to dming um Charlie poth is it onf Conor I will I will I'll be like me again yeah here I am um we're exposing to the internet how little time I spend on the internet how how I know about popular culture I just was and like really Christian and yeah that's great you want to talk about like I don't know um writers from Scotland from like 1819 we could talk about that that we could I don't know who try through this okay well now you do I do you do and when Bobby alof interviews if that's how you say her name interviews him she's like why are you wearing makeup like really straight face and he's like I'm not wearing makeup and he looks like sort of nervous and a little uncomfortable and she's like I saw them putting makeup on you before we started and when I saw this video I'm like what what is this but then you go watch it and all of hers are like sort of a character she's that's fun I I'm wondering is she actually funny I'd love to know her in real life and be like so tell me how did this happen yeah anyway so this was all about nothing but I just wanted to know if you know you know all things so I wanted to know if you knew this thing uhuh and you do now I'll go find out you will I know I believe you I'll report back yeah tell me how she got so famous I'm trying to understand I do that is a thing that I'm like I do not understand how visibility works like who gets famous for what and why and I don't know I don't get it there's a lot about like social media and especially reality television I think my the things that are mysterious to me about social media are the things that sense its Inception I've been really confused by reality television and not in a way that's like that's low and you guys shouldn't but just in a way that's been like oh I don't this is a sort of uncanny valley to me I feel creeped out like what's what is happening here and why are it these people and even ones when I've been like someone has put something on and I've been like I can't look away from this I'm obsessed with this but I don't know why because I don't like that person I don't like what's happening and also I'm kind of bored but I can't stop there's there's a lot about what gets people famous that I'm very confused by totally so if the industry if the IND IND knocked on your door right now what's the industry I don't know but what industry I think it's the ones that make you famous they're like we're all going to collectively work together andan you are going to be famous they knock on the door then they walk through and there's these little bells that Ding and they hear the bells and they're like Lane and Connor you're so adorable we would like to film a reality show about your lives for eight weeks we're going to be in and out of your house we're going to be following you around yeah do you say yes or do you say no I have several things to say one is that spoiler alert my answer would be like no but I know this family would be perfect for what you're talking about you should call you should Call's like yes um we Connor did one day of American Idol a few years ago yeah and um got through three three yeses and it was the worst day of his life I've never seen this person be so angry he's like a very not angry person everything about the thing where you have to fake stuff was like like it hit this thing inside of him where he was like super shut down and offended and was like he doesn't believe in that at all no thank you yeah so it was really it was a really eye openening experience um I think the breaking point for him was we're like standing in the Dolby Theater which is on Hollywood Boulevard wow and you have to do this thing where like you've gotten through so you have to be like I'm going to Hollywood cuz the next week is like the second week of American Idol is like Hollywood week and he was like he's already in Hollywood I can't he did it he totally did it but it was like it like ate at him inside so first of all he could never I love that about him though know we that's really sweet me too and then he said no he like bailed and they yeah they um really it was a lot of phone calls wow he ultimately was like I don't want to do this I don't want to do this really and I because of that because of all of the like pretending every time they would email him every time anything it would hit this like Fury place inside so it was like wow there's something really inside of you that's like really protesting this that is so interesting really interesting and then and then that that decision has kind of been reinforced in a few ways over the over the several years okay um it seems like if you don't win American Idol you get a lot of followers and then a lot of those followers dwindle over the next few years and it doesn't materialize into something substantive the other thing is I used to be friends with someone who grew up on a reality television show and I met this person when they were like 19 wow and like they were a child all the way up this is a yeah it's a person that people know W um but they I we like moved to the same city when it was like college time I didn't go to college they did and just like where it was like there was a period of time when like there was a little cute little group of us that was like you know how like you see people's College friends in their mind like this is part of my memory of that um this beautiful person with like a beautiful interesting family and he was one of the first people I met where I was like I like forgot one time we were read a Taco Bell and one of our other friends was like somebody should follow him around with a TV with a camera and then we were all like they have been yeah who cuz like is is really interesting of a person like just the kind of person that you're just like drawn to in a way you can't totally explain interesting but of course he was a kid when the show started so like how young was he roughly maybe like 10 or 11 wow um yeah and we talked a lot about his experience and I really went back and forth in my brain and then was ultimately like this I have a I have a piece of writing I wrote an essay one time as I was like trying to process like what this does for and to a person because also his family's benefited so hugely of course like they're like financially financially and in terms of opportunities and the way that his life and his own family now that they have a separate family unit is structured also seems to be benefiting from like drawing on those early life experiences and the saying yes to that wow and even the staying with it when he did become an adult I I don't want to get to much own deal just like my Reflections on what reality TV is and I I wrote anay one time about how I feel like it's like Gladiators oh like it's like in Rome where it it tips into this voyerism there's something in humans that we want to watch other people and we kind of want stuff to be hard for them we want to watch them cry and and of course we want to watch them be happy too but we wouldn't watch we wouldn't stay for only happy be like this is fake this is boring like all the Kardashian when you know how you just open Hulu and it just like plays those trailers of stuff it's always the drama they're always crying they're only crying last season was so hard I don't want to talk about it anymore and then it's like the wiping of Tears in the trailer like that's the part that they're saying come here for I look really beautiful but also I'm wiping these tears away and um this thing of like why are we watching like what's what is this that we want CU we do want to see this person's parents fight like the episodes that are big are when something bad happens and there's a lot of support but there's also a lot of like hate and and what does it do to a person to just be watched yeah and so for this guy did he reflect positively on it or was it mixed mixed emotions or straight up negative this person was 19 last time he and I talked about this right but at that point at that point it was very balanced it was very like when I was little we used to hide from the cameras and that was of fun but now that I think about it I'm like yeah we did not want that to be happening we did all say yes I am going to sign this contract to keep doing it here's all these benefits it was very like there were a lot of things like if he was in if there was a center point trying to balance a wheel there was like stuff on all the sides of the wheel so the wheel was staying kind of balanced for him and there was yeah a lot of conversation to be had and then um very interesting he also was like it's paying for my college right now this is so fun for me that I get to go do this go this super reminds me of like anybody reflecting on their parents jobs you could probably be like oh this really sucked this was a benefit yeah this seemed hard kind of cool that I was a part of this I remember going to their office you know like you if if mostly all is well and it's not super tumultuous you could probably find all the bad ones and yeah interesting okay you had some good those are two times in my life that I have signed release forms like image release forms for reality television neither time was my image used on reality television I appreciate but I was like I mean yeah we'll come kick it with your family when they come film this episode here and like I I didn't intend to participate in the American Idol thing either I thought I was bringing Connor a sandwich and then you were on it uhhuh and then I signed a release form to get in CU you're so cute and then there were producers everywhere and they wanted us to interact in this way and they they kept trying to make us have the same conversation over and over and I was like sure as many times as you want and Conor was like he's like not doing not into this I love that I love that about him I know I love that about him too so when I was 19 I was like no reality television for me okay and then in the one small way that it did present itself in my adult life yeah my partner was like I'd rather be dead wow and so the answer is nobody if the industry comes by my door that way not the reality television industry yeah but if they want to blow up your podcast to the masses yeah of course I need them very controlled so we talked a long long long time ago about um would you want to be famous I think that's the question yeah yeah and I said the thing about like yes but only to the people who know like I want to be that kind of background famous where like my contribution is such that people who like are in the know know about me I don't need everybody I really would like for not everybody to freedom of movement is very important to me um so that kind of thing like I want I yes I would like them to blow up this podcast this podcast is valuable and I'm ever growing only more excited about the way that our community is like deepening and deepening and deepening and it's becoming so much more reciprocal where like we're just getting to be together so much more and I'm getting to see that it is useful and then also make it more useful based on like the way that we are getting to be together like I yeah the thing I really believe in it's very like controlled or curated versus like reality show style is a lot of pretending and and kind of Maxim maximizing moments that maybe you would actually want to be private and there's a reason why they would be private right but also there's there are writers on reality television just this this is not supposed to be what this episode is about but I I just want to be clear with everybody that there are producers and writers who show up at the place where the reality show happens and they show the talent what they have written for the day like you just need to know that this is not real and all these reactions there's also someone they record this whole time and then there's someone whose job it is to sit and watch all of the footage and then write down mom made a weird face in this shirt at this time stamp mom made it like there was a weird Huffy moment right here um sister put her face in her hands at this moment in this shirt you feel you feel kind of deceived when the episode comes out you are deceived it's created for you but you because I was on Say Yes to the Dress when my friend Carly got married and the episode versus the day is very different and the reason why it feels quite deceived is because or deceiving is like when you're filming the episode you actually are connecting with their crew like you're with them all day and they're very cool people the people who are on I mean in our experience they were super cool so then to go a whole day or actually it's like multiple days right because it's the wedding day and it's shopping for the dress and it's all of these things so then you feel this sense of trust with the people making the show because you've been hanging out with them and then show comes out and in that particular some of you guys have seen I know cuz you've messaged me about it but like the way they portrayed the bride who was my friend who I was in her wedding was like as if she was like a grumpy I I don't remember it's been a long time since I've seen it but I remember we watched it and it was like wow they just kind of made her look like she's very rude and high maintenance meanwhile what actually happened was like I passed out during her wedding that's stressful it rained so we had to move it indoors and it was an outdoor wedding that's stressful but the stress made for perfect TV to be like oh look at her look at the way she acts and anyway it's just a weird it's a weird thing it was very fun we all had a good time but after right there's there's a weirdness to it and I think Carly I mean I'm kind of speaking for her I don't really remember now it's been some time but I think immediately after there was a sense like I I don't like it like I looking back now if I knew it was going to be like that no thank you but then in the process it feels like this wonderful honor and yeah and they they wrote it they'd be like okay we're going to do this so everybody re react in this way mhm that's funny so you think like we doing it and it's you're watching the show and you're like oh they all really don't like that dress right right but the viewership for like so like I was just traing around Santa Barbara with my group of friends including this dude and we would be like swimming in a river and somebody would be on a bridge going like hey person's name say hi to your mom and dad for me wow right like the viewership creates deep connection when like like this isn't real but they are they are but they aren't but they are they totally are though but also they totally aren't uhuh nope um I have to check this camera because I know for sure we talk about reality television for 25 minutes yeah good thing it's very important in leave it all in that's my favorite part of every podcast I've ever listened to is when something happens and then they're like leave it in I know that they're they're leaving markers for the editors cuz what's happening in the part you don't hear is they're like oh we don't like it cut it out even like the podcast we recorded yesterday I started to talk about Rihanna instead of Beyonce and was like mm go there I'm not going to talk about Rihanna I'm just going to talk about Beyonce you guys don't get to know all my thoughts about R our positive I just want to be so clear but then it was going to lead to many other thoughts and Y yep so today we're going to talk about how I think rules are dumb and um maybe that Vibes with some of what I've been saying of like don't be fake at me reality TV and don't come over here and try to craft me I've got a real personal I got a problem with authority and I've had it forever yeah and some of it is from getting a lot of freedom as a kid in a way that I think is really positive and good and then some of it is from other spaces of being like controlled by ideologies and then by adults who are not my parents and then by certain of my schooling experiences and I just I have this thing where like there was enough of freeness as a child that I was like I know about my willower but then also enough of being constricted that I'm like o I don't like that so it's pretty fundamental to my personality that I think rules are dumb and I don't like um I don't like things that are artificial it just really hits me in this strange place and I think that had a big impact on who I was as a teacher going and being like I'm the grownup now and I'm going to make a world for you guys where you're respected and things are Equitable and you make choices and it was this like reversal for me of being like I'm the grownup now so it's a party that's so cute but not it's a scary party it's a good party yeah where it's kid world and I'm just imagining all your little kids are just like running around eating dirt being like all right whatever Miss Lane like that sounds good listen they're just whatever you can't let kids eat outside dirt very much because there's poop in it sometimes that's the but let me tell you poop and pesticides like things being added to the dirt is the only reason why kids can't eat dirt if you think that there's dirt around that doesn't have those things you do not need to be drama about getting that dirt out of children's mouths and that's the end of our episode good night I would like to advocate for really focusing with your language on what you do want over what you don't want the idea that with very small children personally I think with anybody but particularly with very small children that there's a set of things that they know they're not allowed to do MH it's really nonsense like you can do that you can be that way but what the tools that leaves you are fear and Force if you're going to have a set of rules that are like these are the things we don't do in this household you are placing Yourself by doing that in a position where you now have to enforce rules right you're always pushing from behind or coming over from the top to push down if what you're focused on is like these are the rules and you know it I don't want to have to tell you again yeah and obviously this is a tone of voice that everyone recognizes as like oh that's that thing we don't do anymore but some of the kind of vestigial leftovers of that sort of authoritarian style of parenting are in this thing of like but I said it I'm the mom I'm the dad I'm the teacher this is what I said there's no this in our classroom there's no this in our house we don't do that uh what you're asking a very small mind to do is remember an absence of behavior and hold that in their brain I don't do this thing and I remember that I don't do like that's not very practically that's not possible that's so abstract of like there is a thing I could do and I remember to not do that thing I keep this space blank this Behavior space empty consistently yeah like that's it's not a me it's not like mechanically inside of a brain you can't do it sure you're too small so so then you tell them what to do yes right okay what you want to be practic iing in your life is this is how the way forward is really smooth and good I want to be pulling you toward the space where I want you to be I don't want to stand behind you pushing you in a Direction you don't want to go or blocking you from all these things oh don't do that don't do that don't do that don't do that like that's a position that you can take and that a lot of people do a lot of our parents did and a lot of us kind of naturally do it I was doing a ton of that at the beginning of teaching being like Oh not this oh not that oh not that and they don't actually learn don't do that from me just like endlessly sort of like putting my hand in front of them to block them like they're a little mouth in a maze and I'm just like uhuh not that put my hand in front of you over here and over here and over here yeah that's just frustrating and that's just me and them in a fight all the time is I'm over here being the thing that says no to you yeah versus like what I want is for children to learn what works really well so that they become internally motivated to use really successful tools sure so what I really want is to be in front of them being like come this way it's so cool over here oh my God can I show you the way that it is to live that's like so fun and so free and so special this is where all the sparkly fun things are this is where connection can flow really easily this is the way like come on I want to be in front of you drawing you forward yeah as a child as opposed to either the thing that hangs over you that suddenly drops down to be like no or the thing behind that's just like pushing you pushing you pushing you mhm in terms of the positions and so I feel like rules about what we're not allowed to do are not useful and they create a dynamic that's a huge bummer in the relationship so it's not we don't hurt our sister even it's we when we touch each other we do it really gently when we play together we look to make sure everybody's having fun in our house everybody gets what they need not it's not your turn she's she like you know like there just that was a bad example but like um yeah a lot of NOS a lot of we don't do that stop that which I think like I'm thinking of my own household with almost three-year-old four-year-old 8-year-old often the first line will be the instinctual what we don't hit her and then we go back to okay we touch gently let's let's do it or we give space or something so I'm thinking like the way this is going to play out is like the ideal is that we get to a point where instinctual response is the guiding but don't be alarmed if the first thing you say is the oh no we ah don't put your fingers there and then like okay okay okay okay set them up for Success what success what do they do what's the thing we guide them into um yeah yeah so let's let's sit on that safety part first like let's start at that like first line of like when you do have to stop a child from doing something I can say knock it off and the sound of my voice might stop them from the thing that they're doing but knock it off doesn't mean anything right the the tone of what I'm doing may like restr the body but they can't continue to knock it off right they don't learn and also they're doing like 57 things that you don't know about in their brain you're thinking about the one thing you want them to stop doing and we just kind of has have this assumption of like they do honestly that like they can see our perspective and they think we can see their perspective so when I'm like knock it off they may freeze but they don't know which of the things that they think they're doing that I think they should stop right like it's specific and it's abstract got be it might do the pausing part which is important but it doesn't actually like lead them forward into what I do want them to do whereas if I'm saying like what what is a good example give me some Danger climbing up something tall in my house I I found my little ones like climbing up Furniture um something tall or something that's going to fall over so it's it's not a Furniture item to be climbed yeah um so how about yeah how about there's stop your body look around where is your body look up the thing that you're standing on danger that's dangerous put your feet on the ground right so now they approach thee specific they look around yeah they look up that thing is danger I put my feet on the ground yeah very like these are the things that you do do um I have some terrible news which is you are going to have to say it again I don't want to say it again is like a nothing thing that adults say that's just being frustrated you might as well go frustrated like and you know what express your feeling go for it but I don't want to say it again it's just not real with little kids I'm so sorry like you're going to actually have to say it again but what you could be saying is don't hit your sister sister don't hate your sister so what you're saying over and over is hate your sister hate your sister hate your sister as opposed to stop your body that's not safe try again touch her gently touch her gently uh oh I I'm noticing that you're not touching her gently so I'm going to move your body away right like it's the same mechanic you're still stopping them from hurting the sister but you're saying what you do want and it is possible to like really retrain your brain to be like this and the more you get in the habit the easier it gets like they're at the height of preschool teaching like I I was pretty solid in the like translating from my brain like oh I perceive danger what do I want them to do um but it's absolutely a practice of being like what is happening here I love stop your body I feel like that's they know immediately it has to do with their physically doing cuz I don't know what they're thinking about I don't know what they're looking at or what they think they're after but it absolutely tells them what to do so like in a danger space that's a really great one for me and it gives me a second to be like what do I want them to do like issue the instruction not the rule hey buddy you know we don't use things like we don't use that that way like maybe they knew maybe they didn't you definitely said it before maybe they remember but also we don't I think is kind of a funny one cuz clearly one of us does otherwise you wouldn't right right um which you know keeps saying we don't hit our sister if you want to but like I always think that one's I feel it in my mouth being like yeah I mean I've had a little kid be like no but we do lie then I'm like we don't we aren't going to anymore you did you're going to stop you did but we actually don't here stop Ling do this instead right right uh but that's just a funny little side note that I always like it gets stuck in my throat of like hey we don't like well we do yeah I don't but you do which means we do yeah um we had a guest speaker in our community she's going to speak again at the end of um well anyway she's going to speak again a few times her name is Katie Lynn she's a therapist and she has a background in early childhood development she's really great and she coaches moms and she said something I thought you would love on our call she said a question she asked herself as she's parenting her baby and toddler is is this thing I'm saying for purpose or power because sometimes it feels like it's for purpose but the way she explained it is like when you're telling your child you have five more minutes and then we're done we need to be done and then she's really trying to enforce like we're done but then the child is pushing back they're not done and so she has to ask herself is this purpose or power do we need to be done we might actually need to be done we might have an appointment it might be dinner time there might be some reason we need to actually finish that's purpose power is I just want to be done like there's no there's no other thing going on I just I want you to listen to me because I am Mom and you are kid and you need to listen that I said we're done and that would be more power and so she was saying like to ask our that question makes it about our value system and she was also I mean she's therapist she's like expressing that you are going to sometimes feel that thing that you've also described of like I am feeling so wildly disrespected by this kid yes and that's a horrible feeling and it's very triggering and she actually is going to do a whole call with us in the community I don't know if this will be before or after but either way it will be recorded So no matter what you can access it but how do you parent uh according to your values when you're constantly triggering because parenting then brings up like this reminds me of this thing or this feels like this but bringing it back to okay no matter what purpose or power in this moment and then to execute out of that so then I love this what you're saying of like okay once we figured out purpose um I need to be done here's the reason then how do we tell them that and so um in my house the way usually goes would be like I'm going to set a timer because the timer actually has been helpful so then it's not like I'm the enemy it's just the timer went off and we listen to that and that works great so um set a timer and then timer goes off and like okay now we're going to wrap up and sometimes it'll even be like a little bit of leading to like oh it looks like the timer says we have 2 minutes left now look at that now it's 1 minute and then the guiding of now this is what we're going to do I remember a friend I was with them and they had their two little girls and basically it was like we were trying to have a conversation and it kept going back to oh stop doing that stop stop doing that stop doing that which made perfect sense honestly everything that was going on was like yep that's a no and that's definitely a no and that's not going to work and then we had to pause and she was like oh you know what I need to set them up for Success real quick because it's it's actually they're just not like they don't have anything to do with their hands so they're looking at the outlets and they're wanting this and they're doing that and that to me was a really good example of like oh yeah set them up for Success it's going to then make it a lot um easier not to be the no parents who are constantly trying to stop them from everything because we've given them the things that they can do um but you know what in my house there are times especially around bedtime especially around dinner time where everybody's tired pretty over stimulated and it's there's so many things kids are doing and I definitely feel that thing of like oh my gosh I have to tell you this again guys like I know you know what I'm saying but it is helpful to realize like no developmentally me telling them again makes sense and also developmentally for me it sucks to tell them no again or like you know it's or not even no again it it really is a horrible feeling to constantly have to repeat myself as if like they don't hear me or they don't care what I'm saying but it's all just part of this flow and for me it's been helpful hearing you say this stuff because then when it's happening I don't feel so crazy of like oh my gosh my kids just really don't listen to me like what time of day is it tired is everyone hungry isone have I been giving clear instructions I just also have I walked up to them and said go now and do this thing or did I shout from down the hall totally or sometimes I have to like bend down to their level to get their eyeballs yeah so many things canect I actually have their attention or am I just throwing instructions toward this child who literally didn't even register that that was for yes and you're ignoring me and they're like what yeah exactly so many things are are factors and for you you might be I mean you probably really tired after the day maybe you're working maybe your partner's working and this is the first time you're seeing each other and you're trying to finally talk to an adult about something and all of this is spinning around you there's so many factors that go into why they're acting like this and why you're acting like this and so just to kind of like pause and gather like okay what am I doing okay how do I lead from the front what needs to happen here so that they really do hear me and are able to do what they need to do um yeah it's and also I've chosen power over purpose so many times I went in there all power from the beginning and was like why is this such a nightmare my first year teaching prol was so hard I was endlessly like how do I get these kids to listen to me which is just like a not reasonable goal that's not the goal I I'm here teaching preschool what do I like them listening to me is not the it does sound reasonable because it makes sense like I'm the adult I know what's good I'm here to take care of you I'm a benevolent adult so just I great plans for you if you listen to me I have great plans we're going to have a great time and then they don't listen yeah and so oh there's so much to this but like Dr Sam Raider who we had on the podcast last season she does this cool thing when she's talking about will like the development of human will um where she draws so she draws a square MH on a piece of paper and then she draws a heart inside of the piece of paper and like this is how a will is developed optimally you need both optimal frustration and optimal Indulgence so you need to run into the edges you have to at some point hit the edge because you know as a small child that you don't know where the edges are you're actively looking for like show me the bound of safety where do I begin where do you end and the adult's job is to be like it's this line you may not run in the no you may not hit your sister no always no it is always no about these few things that are clear reasonable minimal they never move they're actually there to keep you safe inside of these very minimal clear reasonable things it's all yes this is my finger drawing the heart in the air again if you're not watching everything inside this square of the clear good nose that you're going to have to test and run into a lot and be frustrated in the good way you should be frustrated when you try to go over into a dangerous space into a space that's not going to be successful as a person you should hit that wall that wall should never move you should feel frustrated and then learn like that's the wall okay okay that's the edge for real yeah and then everything inside is yes free fun play explore do your deal oh that's one of the edges oh we've hit one of the times where you must must in fact go to bed you must love you yeah I'm in charge of your safety yeah yeah someday you could be in charge of your safety today it's me go to bed MH you're going to bed now right that's great and then everything else what PJs do you want to wear you got preferences about PJs cool you like this toothpaste and not that toothpaste have it you know like there's so everything inside very clarifying for the child who then gets to freely exercise their will inside that clear good Square it's like all love in there all warm gooey Good Vibes and when there's an edge it's that edge but also the edge is like be safe and you can say it in a don't do this or a do do this sort of way but like what it is is the positive of be safe not follow these 27,000 arbitrary rules that I am throwing out because I haven't really thought about what actually keeps you safe I'm just like oh I'm scared that she's not safe so rule rule rule rule rule all over the place and now I the adult am responsible for enforcing the gazillions of rules that I threw out without thinking about it tottally and now there's just kind of all these things I said don't do that exist as sort of like imag or like invisible trip wires in her life where I have to be like I said don't do that so I have to go over there and be like I said don't do this you know like it just a little bit of a trap for them a little bit of a trap for us totally like when we clear all of those out anxiety in this kid who's like as they get older they're like I don't know I just know like any second I'll be in trouble cuz there are so many rules here but I don't really understand what they all are stressed adult who's like uhoh am I going to be in a fight with this 2-year-old again in two seconds kind of stressed 2-year-old or really frustrated 2-year-old who's like I just keep hitting these wires so F you anyways let's find them then you know like you get into this funky Zone when there's too much that a child could just be like surprise you wrong and you the adult have to surprise be like that was another don't thing when really it's like do everything accept M this little handful of things and when you hit one of those I'm even going to frame it for you as uhoh I'm not going to let you hit her that way I'm not going to let you touch her like that this is how you touch her then you practice those gentle touches again oh uh oh that's the road I'm going to stop your body you may Walk This Way you may walk this way we're going to the car nope to the car to the car to the car even like to the car as opposed to do not go out there don't do it don't do it don't do it to the nope we're going to the car well I know you don't love that I'm the worst for not letting you run in the street we're going to the car this is where we're going we're flowing together in this way way when we get to the car do you want to pick the music what would you like in the car mhm nothing moves that we're going to the car right but in the car or toward the car anything you want buddy it's your life dude I'm I'm the manager of your life right now but it's your life and you're you're almost like looking for ways to make the thing that you're asking them to do interesting like can we race to the car can we jump to the car can we pretend to be bunnies to the car it's like anything anything to your your thing is like always be weird it's like if you can add some element of weirdness it's going to snap you out of the frustration of the moment which I definitely feel the frustration of the moment all the time um but yeah I think that piece and then I I feel like what you're saying is almost an argument for um or the way I'm hearing it is also to ensure that our home environments set them up to have a lot of yeses yes because if we don't think through the place that they're spending their time and if naturally the environment includes a lot of nose yeah because because they could break a lot of stuff or damage a lot of stuff or get get hurt then that's going to make our life harder and their life harder absolutely so that's also where my mind went is like okay how do you create that place for them so that they can have a really good time and you can have a really good time yeah and um yeah and then also celebrating the wins like when this goes well that was so awesome I love how we were able to do that together that was just like that felt so good wow didn't that feel so good when it went that way like we want them to we want to be reflecting their experience even as we're praising them I was like I loved that behavior that was great for me didn't you notice how good that was for you like you felt good when we did it this way that was fun for you you got this fun thing like we got to do this thing together just like really uplifting the positive experience so that that's what's really embedded um yeah and I like you also have said before something I think about often with um my youngest my 2-year-old is like not too many steps in the instructions oh yeah like sometimes we accidentally we're we're thinking through all their steps so we're giving them like way too many words or way too much instruction and to simplify it and be like okay we're going to do this and then we're going to do this once that's done but not telling them and then trusting that they're actually going to do all those things cuz it seems to just poof and disappear and then they do none of the things yeah your one-year-old can do one-step instructions yeah go do this and come back okay great come back I'll tell you the next thing your 2-year-old can do twostep instructions take this to your bedroom and then grab a jacket bring the jacket like put the shoes away grab a jacket like two things if you add a third thing it's not like they forget that third thing I think I just said this on a call it's not like oh I forgot the third step it's like third instruction wipe yeah well and I noticed like close to bedtime tired they they don't do Jules loses all I'm like maybe one instruction works and if I go into it expecting no you can do this look Wilson just did this no Wilson is four Jules is almost three there is actually developmentally going to be something different that I expect from them um but yeah so much of it is like getting my expectations in order so that they so yeah basically like minimizing the frustration that happens between us absolutely I like um I love you bringing back up the environment because we talk about a yes environment and we also talk about get to yes like that's kind of this whole conversation is like find your way to yes and what that doesn't mean is permissive parenting like sometimes when I talk about this sometimes it'll hit a place for people who are like I don't think you should let your kids run all over you and I'm like yeah 100% I'm absolutely with you on that one I'm not saying the kid gets to rule the roost that's actually like equally bad for a child um as like again back to the like Optimal Indulgence optimal frustration like too much Indulgence it leads to equally ridiculous things as too much frustration you just get different kinds of problems with the will basically um but your life does get to flow really nicely you don't have to be in a fight with this kid all the time you don't have to be monitoring all of their all of their everything that they're ever doing you don't you don't have to be the one who's like just the warden of like not that not that not that like you can look at your life and be like how much yes can we get here what can I do as the grown-up yes to smooth that path to like move things in my environment so that I'm saying no to the one-year-old less because everything they can reach they are going to re that's what they're going to do so how do I make this environment work for what they are going to do and then what's the really important know that I always hold and phrasing all of that as much as you can as the instruction do this so much less of stop no don't don't and then especially not this like set of rules that just exists all the time they're not holding that set of rules they're not ignoring you they don't know better they don't care that you said it before or like their bra it's not in there like I just want to advocate for them in that space of like you've set this thing out that hangs over in an abstract space they can't do it they don't remember they don't know MH yeah this happening in my house every day after preschool Wilson talks like a baby mhm I I'm like trying to understand is that how they talk with their preschool teachers maybe I don't really know but it's every single day after school he talks like a baby in a really annoying way annoying to the point where Eloise like wants to cry she's like this is the worst sound I don't like it and she kept over and over don't talk like a baby stop talking like a baby stop talking like a baby and I was like we're going to switch everybody Sean Eloise me the ones who can say this use your big guy voice use your big guy voice we love your big guy voice when you say it with your big guy voice we understand you when you talk like a baby I can't understand you could you say it with your big guy voice where's your big guy voice Y and it has switched a lot it's still very annoying Ellie still wants to cry she for her it's like she is going to go crazy with this sound um but yeah I feel like that I took a cue from you on that is like how do I shift this because it is something I want to not happen yeah um but the over and over again of don't talk like a baby is not is not helpful and it just makes them feel bad all the moms are going to be like Lan could you start a school and could you hire all the people and tell them to do their educating like this nope but you can enjoy this podcast every week but this is the kind of stuff that I I hope people will like Implement in their lives and even Educators cuz I I think a lot of a lot of the education system especially in this little preschool I mean it's a great little school but a lot of it is rules a lot I mean he'll come home and be like I learned that I can't say this and I can't do this and bl there's just a bunch of that and uh yeah yeah your your way is not the way of a lot of people no but it's an easy it's literally easier it like it takes some retraining of your own brain but like your life with children can be easier if you focus on telling them what they can do this is the shortest route to your goal child oh that's never going to work this is the shortest route to what you want yeah and it just just feels better I want it to feel good right to be with your kid and to be teaching and training these kids and there are some parts that are never going to feel good there are always going to be Tantrums that exist some stuff is going to be tough but some of it can be a lot easier and I think this is one of the ways it's so great okay thanks guys if you want to talk more to Lane you can join our online community you can DM us directly you can h on the zoom calls when we lead them and we would love to know you and a rate and review this podcast please that be awesome okay goodbye [Music] bye