Did Asian Men Like SHOGUN As Much As Everyone Else?

FX's Shogun just won a record-breaking 18 Emmy Awards in one night. David, did this show deserve all the awards, or was it for diversity's sake? I guess you could say that Game of Thrones was de-throned. Let's run the clip! And the Emmy goes to... Shogun. Here, Shogun has received 25 nominations. Boom! There you have it, Andrew! Shogun, a.k.a. Shogun, won 18 Emmys. Game of Thrones has the record for 59 for the series, but they only got 13 in a single season. This one got 18. And you know what's even more noteworthy, Andrew? Especially if you're Asian, Anna Sawai, who played Mariko Sama, used to be in a hip-hop J-pop group. Okay, David, I don't really know why that's relevant, but you seem to be a fan, so we're gonna play the clips. But anyways, guys, big news, because this is an Asian show, Asian actors, spoken in an Asian language, Japanese, obviously, taking place in a period of history in Japan. Now, the show is based off of a book from a white guy who spent time in Japan. But the white story was based off some loose recounting of actually a real story, right? So I guess, basically, we made a video about how good we thought the show was several months ago. Now the show has finished, kind of goes on. You guys let us know in the comments down below what you thought of the entire season. But yeah, 18 Emmys, best drama, to best directing, sound mixing, to best period costumes, all the way to best lead actress, Anna Sawai, best lead actor, Hiroyuki Sanada, and best guest actor. Yabushige got robbed, though. He did, he did, he did. So, I mean, it won all the awards, David. Winning Emmys, obviously, it's being recognized by the Emmy Academy. What does it mean? Does it mean anything? And a lot of people are debating it, both internally within the Asian community and in the television community. Right, because also we saw Beef, a couple years ago, win a bunch of Emmys as well. Oh, that's a good point. Right, Beef won a lot of Emmys, and Beef, but now between Beef and Shogun in the past few years, that's a pretty good run. Right, well, Asians also swept the Oscars two years ago as well. So some people are saying, is it like... Basically, there's a lot of debate. Was this a diversity win? Was Shogun just literally the best show this year? Because obviously, it's a show that takes place, Andrew, far outside of the Anglosphere or even like Western mythology, period. So obviously, it's not even taking place in English. I'd say about, what, 60% of the show is in Japanese. So it's almost like, how can Western audiences embrace it? Is it legit? Or is it not legit, and it's DEI? Or are people really that open-minded in 2024? Well, I guess we should discuss it, because it seems like Asian people or Asian faces are making a lot of good content lately. But maybe we're getting a boost. Who knows? Anyways, guys, we're going to talk about it. Please hit that like button. Check out other episodes of The Hot Pop. Boys, check out Smaller Sauce at SmallerSauce.com. Let's just take a look at some of the discussions. Point number one, Andrew. Somebody said, why do the Emmys allow all these premium shows, whether they're on HBO or Hulu or whatever service it is? These shows are super expensive. Why do they allow them to sweep the awards? Because Game of Thrones and Shogun are more like movie tier. So they're saying, how could a regular show ever compete with that? Oh, so you're saying it's bad. They're saying it's bad for TV. It's unfair for TV shows. Yeah, I guess it's like because they're so paywalled that most people didn't get a chance to watch those shows. Oh, right, right. Because they're not on like primetime television. Well, I don't know. I mean, the landscape is just changing. I mean, I don't really think that's that big of a deal because just a lot of people have different streaming services. A lot of people don't have their cable TV anymore. So but a lot of people are subscribed to so many streaming services. It's almost equal to a cable bill. Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, there's way more content out there. So, yes, winning these awards in a way is only going to get more competitive in years to come because there's so much more content out there. Right. Other people were just talking about what a great show it was. But a lot of people were talking about what type of Americans like this show and what type of Americans are pretending to like this show and what type of Americans would outright be like, I'm not going to watch that. Well, obviously, I think there's a portion of Americans who have no interest in watching the show. But I think the ones who are open to it, they would have seen kind of the world it brought them into. I think also a show that's so new and different than all the other shows at the time does have an advantage. Kind of like everything, everywhere, all at once, David. Like that movie was so different. It was very metaverse like, right? It was so nutty, to be honest, but it was still good. But I think the nuttiness kind of gives it, puts it in its own lane. And therefore, people were like, oh, we got to give it awards. It's just so different and groundbreaking. Right, to be fair, Shogun came out in 1975 and it was a remake of the Shogun from 1975. So some of the people who loved Mifune in the original one might watch, may have watched this one. This was not for the 1975 crowd, I'm assuming. Yeah, I think only a fraction of the 1975 crowd loved this version. This modern, updated, way more Japanese version, right? Of course, people are debating whether or not, because it is true that Hiroki winning and Anna Sawai winning, some of the news outlets were saying, oh, this is the first Asian-American to ever win best actor or best actress. Some people were like, DEI, DEI. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a slight boost just because of how deeply it took you into that culture. And I think it just told the story so well. You're talking about a feudal Japan. Yeah, I'm a person who's not familiar with the 1975 version, okay? So when I'm learning about the Portuguese and the British fighting over Japan, and oh my gosh, what Japan meant at that time, and how people perceive this people, and then the different languages in the show, and how everybody's speaking their own language, and actually English being spoken is really not, it's not even the predominant language. Well, actually, they're supposed to be speaking Portuguese at that time, actually. Yeah. But they just switched it to English. Right. So I just think it's like kind of the world that they took you into. It just took so much work and was executed so well. So I guess, yeah, but maybe not everybody liked the story because it kind of made certain white groups look bad. I would say that it was pretty fair in its macro representation. I will say this, and we're going to get to it later. The white guy does look like he's got the biggest piece of equipment on him in terms of masculinity or testosterone. Point number five, somebody said, we're so sick of this race discussion. I just can't stand, I like the show, but I don't like it being brought up that it's the first Asian show that won in X amount of years. Or now some people are saying, oh, man, it's the first Japanese actress. And you know what I mean? Because like maybe Ali Wong one year, but then she's not Japanese. So now people got to giving them award for like this milestone. So I guess some people in the Western world are like, they don't know how to perceive it, right? Right, right, right. Oh, I saw this criticism. I mean, because there's always complaints about the show, even this is from the YouTube comments section from our previous video a few months ago, where it said people will complain about a show based in Japan, about Japan with Japanese actors speaking Japanese. How can you guys be satisfied with anything? And this was because, David, there's certain aspects of the story, which are based off of the original book, that still kind of put the white guy in the cool position. Right, it was a little bit controversial on like more like Asian male circles, I guess, where people are like, wait, why does he got the big old thing on him? All the geishas and Anna Sawai and warrior ladies and everybody's looking at how good he looks. Let me ask you, because you really love the show. You're a big fan of the show. I mean, I like the show too, but I feel like we got to ask you because some people in the comments, I'm not saying we have to listen to the comment section, but this person's like, oh, well, if you watched the whole season, you would have seen that all the white male Asian female tropes are there. The white guy is the savior, the hero, the love interest. While the Asian men are seen as the toxic grumpy guys, the toxic husband, right, obviously of Anna Sawai, and the Asian guys who are shirtless are not that buff. I just feel like that the Asian guys aren't seen in a positive enough light compared to the white guy. I would agree with them, but I would also point out that the visual representation in turn is going to be the last thing that breaks. I will say this, he never disparages Asian men verbally. The white character, right, or the British character, whatever. But I'm saying in the past he would have, but everything comes in baby steps where yes, he's still got to be easily the most sexualized character. I don't think he's obviously the most, but if you had to analyze it and rank it out, he is the most sexualized character. I mean, that's probably accurate to the book. Yeah, and it's probably accurate to like... So Hiroki Sanada, right, he's very Japanese. He's like one of the probably top five stars in Japan. He's still got to work within the Western system to get this done. I mean, the producers are still Western. The original source material is still Western. So I almost think like he shapeshifted it as much as he could while still pleasing both groups. And obviously the Emmy committee is like rewarding him for doing so because otherwise the producers had to take such a big risk, right? If you know about internal circles within Hollywood or like television, Andrew, a lot of people did not know how something from the East was going to do with heavy, heavy investment. There wasn't anime or manga, right, or CGI. So this is like really basic. There's no fantasy elements. Nobody's flying a dragon. Nobody's breathing fire. Like basically people get blown up. I mean, it looks a little bit more glamorous, but people just get blown up and killed the way a regular person would. You know what I'm saying? I guess what I'm saying is if you understand of how actually the mechanics and oftentimes the harsh reality of the mechanics of progress works, then Shogun is progress. Right. So you would admit it's not a perfect show from an Asian male masculinity standpoint of being like, oh, there could have been like even a buffer Asian guy in that show. For sure, for sure. But it was almost like he pushed it for me, understanding the game as much as I do or IQ I have for it, mapping for it. He pushed it as far as he could. Yeah. I mean, obviously it was a good show. I think the John Wick movies might even do a better job, but then some people are mad about, you know, how many Asian guys get killed in John Wick too. But there's cool Asian male characters in John Wick like Donnie Yen and Hiroki Sanada himself too. Right. And Keanu's part Asian himself. Yeah. No, I mean, I think there's something for everybody. I mean, I think there's Warrior, that show, which is not continuing anymore, but a lot of people stand by Warrior as far as Asian male representation. Beef, which is Asian American male representation. And then there's, I mean, I think Shogun from a historical standpoint, which you're going to learn a lot about history through that show as well. But yeah, I mean, sure. There's a white protagonist in the story. Does that automatically make it, does that like nullify it? You know what I mean? Right, right, right. I mean, like I said, to me, it was my favorite show that I've seen since The Wire because it taught me a lot of things. And also just, you know, looking up Japanese feudalistic history and the creation of the Tokugawa Shogun after watching Shogun, I was like, oh yeah, this is pretty relevant. And it's cool because it's like, it just shows a white guy in Asia and the Asians generally are pretty cool. Yeah, you're right. They're not on a sexual side. I will say, I agree. That side was a little bit lacking. But in terms of coolness, even like the traitors and the bad guys are still cool. Okay. Yeah, no, I mean, guys, if it inspired you to learn something and to look up more and there's still strong, badass Asian guys in that show, even if the white guy gets with the Asian girl, it's not in that way that you think, but on paper, that's what happens. I will say this and Andrew, I got to get your opinion on this. We do have a friend. I'm not going to say who he is. He's Asian American and he's kind of known in the game. And he goes, yeah, that story was just way too ancient Asia for me. I need more stories about Asian America. And I remember thinking in my head, I was like, bro, we are still Asian. This is still Asian history. You know what I'm saying? It's still Asia. It's not directly addressing growing up in the 80s or 90s or 2000s. Well, it was a great period piece, actually. There's a lot of Chinese period shows, to be honest, and movies that, to be honest, even as a Chinese person, I'm not as into because I just think that Shogun made it look cooler. I don't know. Yeah, that's the truth. So anyways, guys, let us know in the comments down below. What are we missing? Are there other great Asian shows maybe that are not produced in the West that would not be up for Emmys? But let us know and let us know what you thought about this show. Does the Asian male representation affect your opinion or not? All right, you guys, let us know what you think in the comments section below. By the way, I think Anna Sui dated Sung Kang for a long time. Anyway, guys, until next time, we out. Peace.