Maya Hawke | Chaos Angel, Inside Out 2, Stranger Things

I'm realizing I've now done this thing twice where like Stranger Things is such a hit and it's so great and I joined season three And Inside Out is so amazing and it's such a hit and I'm joining movie two And I'm like, wow, I'm really just hopping on the like the rainbow projects. I'm just being like, oh sure. Oh it worked I'll get on Hi beautiful human, I'm Zach. That's Santa. Welcome Maya Hawk to the studio. Hey, hi. Yay. Thank you. Thank you, Zach You're also a beautiful human. You are really It's cool to talk to you There's so much to get into you bring up actor voice Is that what you're channeling when you're in a voiceover booth and bringing this character to life? Which by the way, you have the weirdest voiceover experience. I've never actually talked to anyone who's voiced podcasts before Oh, yeah, but you're big in the podcast scripted world sis. I am I am. Well, I love to work and um So I really I love my job. I love to work and It's really hard to get on a movie set and it's really hard to get on tour and it's really hard to get in a studio and so I just kind of try to mix those things up by you know going into these opportunities to make these other creative projects and the really exciting thing about the podcast space to me is that Because it doesn't require as much money as a movie does to make a podcast You can be freer and experiment with different material and and tried out different Voices and parts and the stakes are a little bit lower lower Um, so I I think it's a really free creative space And you've done cool podcasts like thank you you did the roe versus wade supreme court series Yeah, you did the playboy interview and then you did like a companion podcast the stranger things which is sick. Thank you Yeah, well that I love that that was you know, that's the rebel robin one you're talking about Yeah was based on this book. Uh that was written based on the character from the show I mean, you know, it's like uh But they were like you can do this or we'll pay someone else to pretend to be you and I was like well I'll do it Why not I feel like that's the energy you bring into a lot of things which is like why not as long as it's creative That's pretty much my deal as long as it's creative As long as the writing is interesting and as long as the other people who are making it love what they're making Um, i'm pretty down That's what a healthy attitude to approach something with and it's kind of like a not say no But it's kind of like maybe an a how Yeah, it's it's more how and like and and and can and is it possible Um, is it like yeah, so that's kind of like how so like is it possible? How are we going to do it? Is the process going to be good? Um, are there people involved kind? Um, that's kind of more how I how I think about it. Do you have Do you apply any of that? I mean, there's probably a lot that you apply but anything in that realm specifically to music Well, I think I bring a lot of stuff from my life as an actor into music most of it is about collaboration and teamwork I think that you know filmmaking if you go to see a movie and you Sit through the credits at the end. Uh, you will watch An army of people, you know The names chop by and it's it takes an army to make a movie and it's such a collaborative medium And it starts with the writer and the script and the director But then by the time you get to the end a lot of the time You know the different departments will know more about certain details of the thing like, you know the the visual department will know more about how the movie looks than the director or or a writer and the actor might know more about that character than the writer even did when they started writing it because the actor Puts so much time into just that one thing, you know, you become experts in that Part of this machine that it takes to build this universe in the part of this collage, you know, or yeah, exactly And so I kind of like to take that into music. I mean when I was making This record that just came out uh, I really wanted kind of to go to summer camp with everybody that I work with for a month and make everyone kind of stay in the same place and eat dinner together every night and I wanted everyone to have written something on the record, you know contributed some of their own creative creativity because I wanted them to feel ownership over the project and and you know to move into it with With the feeling that it belongs to them a little bit because They're working so hard, you know and it they deserve to have it belong to them and to feel like They're it's their dream too. And that's always how I feel I've said this before but when i'm making a movie is like i'm joining someone else's dream And allowing it to become my dream too And that's what I want it to feel like when i'm making records. That's a beautiful way to approach it. Thank well Thank you, but also like healthy collaboration incredibly creative but also making you know giving people like Skin in the game making it feel like it belongs to them because the truth is like when art like whether you're a writer or producer You have a hand in like that thing coming from nothing and you you want to make it feel like your own I think that's true. And you know in the music world It's not always that way and I have had many experiences of like You know you bring in a session musician for a day because you want some fiddle on this track And you bring in the fiddle guy and the fiddle guy's how like how's this? And you're like, ah, it's cool. How about you do it a little more like that and the little guy's like, okay I was like bye and That's awesome And some and like you can't have every instrument that you want to have be on your record there all the time A part of the whole thing it gets overwhelming to have that many people in the room You need you know, you need space But if there's a way to have them, you know kind of your main players your lead actors on the record Feel really a part of a part of the record as a whole and understand the way that their Guitar solo on the third track is going to connect and reference their guitar solo on the seventh track You know then and so that they're actually telling a story with that instrument. Um I don't know. I think that that's beautiful was chaos angel your first approach at this creative style I did a lot of things differently for chaos angel. Um, there are there are ways in which that style happened For my other records accidentally that here it happened on purpose. Um but I did a lot of things differently like I had the title before I made the record which is different I had um visual lookbooks and landscapes before I I went in to record the record because I I'd realized from my other two record making experiences that you make the record when you feel like this is me This is my story. This is who I am and then By the time it comes out and you're starting to work on music videos and cover art and all that stuff That's not even you anymore. That's past. Yeah, right and so I wanted past me or present me to build a Kind of guide a map for future me who is going to have to make all this cover art and do all this music video and send out letters to the fans and do instagram posts like I wanted that future person to know what the past person wanted to say um Because I know by the time I would get there. I would actually have something totally different. I wanted to say That's a really interesting approach that i've never heard anybody take I maybe they take it and they just don't talk about it Well, I think people manifest in their songs all the time, right? like yeah, they like bring upon a reality that like even they maybe like they They could have dreamed of maybe didn't fully think it was possible But like putting it in that record or throughout that album like people manifest in records all the time Totally but you know the like almost like saying I mean talking to your future self. Yeah, it's really cool. Thanks how do you approach that like so do you do you start with What like how do I mean it starts with the visual landscape and all that kind of stuff? But that doesn't necessarily give you story Well this time I mean I obviously started with the songs but around the time that I was writing and recording the songs I started working on The visual landscape and like writing essays about what I wanted the record to mean and what I wanted it to be about Because I knew you know you get to this point where they're like, oh we need you to um, Write us your you know, your your I can't remember what they call it It's some kind of thing they want you to write about the record It's like your pitch thing or your bio or whatever about the record and you have to write it Months after you made the music so I tried to write it before I tried to write it while I was making the music you know and Come up with those ideas and thoughts about what the record was about so that when I Had to talk about it eventually when I was sitting here in front of you having to talk about it I would know What it meant to me at the time, you know, and not just what it had become What did you know what it had become for me? So what did it mean to you then? Then it was really about um The record was about breaking promises And figuring out how to heal from that and kind of Also dealing with promises that had been broken to you Promises made to you about who you were supposed to be Um how you're supposed to behave, you know I kind of created this character, uh that i've talked about a lot, but i'll do it again quickly of this. Um Angel of love this like girl who was raised to be a cupid And then when she comes down to finally get to do her job She's creating destruction and pain everywhere. And so she runs away and uh Only kind of later realizes that actually the chaos that she'd created was a necessary ingredient for love Um for change the chaos was the necessary ingredient for change and change is a necessary ingredient for love and so I kind of came up with that story and wrote about it and I an alternate title for the record was promise. Um, because I realized I kept writing about promises and how young people and people generally we We we kind of get into these relationship dynamics or these work dynamics and we make these big promises like I'm gonna love you forever. I'm gonna work with you forever. We're gonna do this together always and Then your life Implodes when you have to break that promise, you know when you change or the situation changes and you You can't sustain that anymore and it blows up your life. And I was like, why are we making those in the first place? Why aren't we just looking at each other and saying like I love you today? and you know talking about that and talking about the ephemeral quality of feelings and moments and times and trying to work toward Um an understanding that that other person is as independent As changeable as you know, you are and also as demented as you know You are and so they should be able to have empathy for the parts of you that are a little funny You know that are imperfect Do you find answers to the question of why people are making promises and Because there is this desire to commitment But how do you balance that all right? Yeah, I mean I was on this kind of pendulum swing between wanting to ground myself Really intensely like I want a place I live and I want to make it exactly my home and I want to live in it forever and I want a partner and I want them to be my partner forever and then kind of creating a version of that situation and then being like You know and then trying to escape from it and then starting from scratch again right back on the pendulum And I think that that's not a super healthy way to live I think we do it because we're striving for the sense of Structure we might have had as kids where it's like that's your mom. That's your dad You can't you don't get another one. Like you can't pick a new one. That's just what you get. This is your house That's what you get. This is your room as we get as much as we You know as teenagers strove to break out of that You also then become this adult and you're floating around trying to buy toilet paper And are like, oh I actually want some consistency I want some things that don't move And so I think that the answer is that you have to live I mean the answer i've come to is that you have to live comfortably in the discomfort Of kind of always having some things that are a little Holding you in tighter than you want to be and some things that are a little looser and more chaotic than you want them to be and try not to Drill too deep down either way. I mean like the classic worst advice ever moderation The most annoying best advice anyone will ever give you moderation Balances everything. Yeah How do you portray or? Get your collaborators in on this deeper vision when you're about to spend a month together to craft this album. Well Talking because unfortunately it is still the only way um But um, but do you have like a do you do you and your brain have something ready to go? Do you have a presentation? Do you have lyrics ready? Like what do you enter into? For that month, like how do you come prepared to your summer camp? I have all the songs I mean we we went into the month of recording with all of the songs um And so because i've been writing for a while before that Um, and then we I brought my band together for like a week of writing sessions to kind of go over What I had so far And we went over it and we talked about it. We worked up some new stuff. We changed we reharmonized some parts and and then Parted ways for about four or five months. I wrote a couple more songs. Um and then We went to the studio and we had all the songs. I mean and actually it was more of a winnowing down process But basically talking to them Telling them what I wanted the record to be about what I wanted it to sound like and Um, you know getting their ideas and filtering that through and then and and kind of just going in and digging into these songs It's scary to do that No, awesome That's cool. Scary for me. Always the scary is the putting out like working with people like Making stuff starting from an idea that doesn't is nothing like it's it's actually nothing You know if you and I went to write a song and work on it together today There would be nothing and we would create something and even if we had to do that in front of people Like if we came up with anything even like monkey monkey Funny funny glasses bear like, you know If we got a little beat going with that and it got cool like that would be awesome and I wouldn't even be afraid of someone watched because What we're gonna you know, we're not that serious. We're just here being silly I think what's scary is when you decide okay, this is done And now i'm gonna like put my stamp of approval on it and say I think this is good and put it out into the world But the creative process is pretty much my favorite Situation to be in period. Hello, beautiful human every year millions of gamers experience igss inadequate gaming setup syndrome Luckily a cure has been found you have to go beyond With the vibersonic mattress by beyond sleep. This thing has six built-in subwoofers usb ports for charging led lights so you never stub your toe It gives you an acoustic massage when you want it plus adjustable degrees of comfort This right here is the best way to game ever Hear your igss today at beyond sleep tech.com So what is it about crafting a character and writing from that angle yet you're still talking to your future self by Making this music. I think I retroactively applied the character. I mean all these songs are really personal They're all from my point of view But chaos angel itself. The last song was the final song written for the record And the whole thing is really personal, but there's a bridge to the song. Um, Like it goes she was perched upon a lamppost singing in an old ruin. Um, or no, it's you struck the chaos angel um aiming for a lost balloon, you know, and I That bridge was like oh there's a character there. Who is this woman? What do I mean when I wrote you like you struck the chaos angel? and I meant me Um, because I meant I was this like well-intentioned person Who was creating unnecessary drama in my life, you know, um, and like I was pitying the fool Who would like accidentally interact with me, you know, um, really and so that's what I was writing about And then I was like, oh but this name this this creature this chaos angel That's also not me You know, that's also like and all of a sudden all this other language started coming up like the kingdom of the Golden fleece members of a secret order and I was like, whoa. What is this? um And kind of that went in the bridge Of chaos angel the final song and then I kind of retroactively Found a way to have all the other songs Makes sense to me from the point of view of that character, even though It was all me. I mean, you know I'm just writing personally, but i'm i'm kind of I i'm an actor. I like characters. I like Taking a character and making it personal and taking the personal and making it a character which by the way, like makes music that kind of like more like, uh for Very dimensional, you know what i'm saying? It's very much a universe. It's cool. Do you really pity people? Uh choosing to get to know you not anymore. You did though. I did why I didn't trust myself. I I I didn't trust my feelings. I They would come I would I get I would get really excited and then I would get really scared And I I didn't know when to trust the excitement or not, um, and I didn't Like and it was really those two emotions. It was excitement and then fear and basically it started to happen where I would start to be like, oh i'm excited I'm just gonna be afraid, you know, there was like many years where I was like, oh This and i'm not gonna be afraid this time this excitement and then I would be like and then I reached a point Which is kind of around when I was writing this letter this this album um Where and and kind of I think this point is what helped me make the transition that I think I've made But I reached a point where I was like, oh, I don't even want to get excited Like because I know the fear is coming like there is no there is no excitement without this fear fear of what? What you're getting excited for not happening it what is it? um I think I don't I think fear of Letting people down. Um, like fear of Uh not being ready for the things I signed up for fear of um yeah, I think like That kind of fear that i'm a different person than I thought I was Like almost this feeling that actually i'm supposed to be alone And I will be alone forever and that like I am I am a woods witch Who like is like not supposed to have friends and it's just supposed to be like kind of an like a crazy forest character who like appears every now and then and puts on a sparkly dress and um puts out an album and um, you know, Does a podcast and then goes back to the woods, you know, like that i'm just kind of a workaholic um Alone person um That was the fear I think and that I would end up in these things that excited me And then I would this fear would come back that that was that was my true self And that my true self was going to come back to bite both of us in the butt sometime soon Now, where are we at today? balance like You people are allowed to have alone time and they are allowed to have friends and loved ones and um They are allowed to love their work and they are allowed to love their people and uh You just have to have balance you have to listen and you have to tell people who you are And I think that if you tell people who you are and prepare them, you know from the jump then You have a much better chance of things going. Well, I think you know, it's a classic young person This is not an original psychological analysis, but it's a classic young person thing your first couple relationships and things You're reading the room you're figuring out who people want you to be you're becoming that person You're getting a sense of what kind of relationship they want you're offering that relationship. You're I mean you're in just in a state of Self-modification and creation to to become the thing that will get you the thing that you want That you think you want in the moment and it doesn't really work because you end up in that thing You get what you want and then you're stuck there and you are Not free and you're not you and then eventually you are going to come back out and it's going to seem really scary um and bring out a lot of fear when really if you just been you from the jump You probably would have been fine and you probably would have found someone who liked you but like you need to go through all of those phases to really understand and learn and evolve as a human being like Do you know what i'm saying? Like you need to like I think so you need to have those shit people in your life to learn like you need to like Make mistakes. You need to also think you need to go through all those phases. I'm not I'm not even saying I don't even think those people are shit people I think that like the situation like if if somebody doesn't bring themselves into a situation if they are lying about who they are and Having like then that doesn't make someone a shit person sure for like being like, whoa You're not this person you were telling like you're the liar, you know You're you're the person who was like no all I want to do is open your curtains for you in the morning and make your tea That is exactly the kind of relationship that I want, you know, I mean like it's um Yeah, you can't lie to people and then tell them a shit person that they're a shit person for being disappointed that you're not The lie you told you know, it's true But by the way, isn't that mutual though? Isn't everybody to a certain degree like going through a phase like in their life of just wanting to be the person that they think Someone else will like yeah, I think so. I think some people Go through Some people's experience in life tells them they don't need to change to be liked And some people's experience in life tells them that they do and um Yeah, I think Well said that's true true Putting that against a lot of my relationships that I felt very close for a very long time You know and I do wonder like there's a lot of reasons as to why they work for so long Yeah, and I think well, you know so interesting There was a phase And you're younger than I am your saturn is going to return to you soon. Oh, I know Congratulations. I've recently I recently called my um Astrologer. Yeah, because I was like what is going on and they're like you're saturn. I was like, oh, okay It's on the way. It's on the way. Very cool. Very cool. Very cool phase of life Yeah, but I do remember like being at a certain point in my life where like I could Like looking back like there was all I wanted to do is please my friends But like to a certain degree all my friends all my friends wanted to do is Please me in any relationship, right? It doesn't need to be romantic. It'd be anything totally No, I mean some friendships are some of our most powerful. I was just talking about this most powerful relationships most powerful heartbreaks. Um, 100 for sure And also shape us into who we are, you know, you are the company you keep totally It's crazy. Yeah, speaking of being the company you keep you are a real artist and you've been for a long time It's pretty wild Pretty cool. Yeah I really it means a lot to me. You're coming for me. Thank you I feel like you're solely motivated just by what is it just the creation of Turning so much of something from absolutely nothing Maybe I I'm i'm deeply socially motivated. I mean, this is an embarrassing thing to say Yeah, but I when I was a kid, I had a really hard time making friends But if you went to the theater Or you joined the choir Or you you know went to band There was community there totally and it was usually a community of other people had a hard time making friends And you also had something to do together where you weren't just sitting down and being like, how are you? How are you? What do you think? Do you like that movie? No, I thought it was too You were making something together which elevates the connection elevates the conversation And I think it's my favorite way to socialize working, you know, like making things with other people Um it I so i'm deeply socially motivated. That's cool. And it's my it's like I love to work It's why I work with the same people so much. I love to work with my friends And because it's a great way to hang out um where you're just You know, it's not so much pressure on the hang because you have something else you're doing, you know And I think a lot of people get that like just going to the office or whatever, you know You got your friend at the office that you hang out with but when you don't go to the office You have to build the office and then the privilege of that is then you get to build your dream office you know where you bring in your favorite people to work with and um So there's that and then I think I just I don't know. I just have one of those like brains that just Doesn't want to stop making stuff. Yeah, and so and doesn't want to and gets excited by ideas and and and you know So I just I don't know. I love it Why do you make music? I've made music my whole life um, I Basically never had the intent to do it professionally Only very recently has that started to be like whoa, okay, maybe but we're three albums in I know I know but I really even You know the first one for sure. I mean like the second one I started to kind of be like but even then I was Really? I wanted it to be this like purely creative outlet and I had this I'd fear fear That if it became professional it would become commercial and if it became commercial would become corrupted um, and all of a sudden i'd be like sitting in the studio being like the bpm isn't high enough, you know, like um, and um, so and I didn't want that I wanted it to be expressive personal um non-corporate, you know, like I I I was okay to like lose money doing it. You know, I was just like let's do it um, because I I love writing songs I love How powerful a communication tool it is. I love writing poetry and I also I think that poetry is an extremely difficult form these days, you know, there's there used to be like Poets, you know like poets on staff and they just don't really exist like, you know at the school like Songwriters. Yeah. Well, yeah exactly and now they're songwriters. And so I love I love writing poetry and I think that songwriting is actually maybe the most powerful Sorry to anyone who disagrees with this powerfully in the poetry world. I am sorry I probably think you are probably right and smarter than me But I I think that music is one of the most powerful ways to deliver a poem. Um, and really can deeply elevate language um, and so I just love it and i've always been doing it and and it's becoming a bigger and bigger part of my life and i'm Going with the flow, you know following the dragon So this album it meant something different to you when you wrote it, but what does it actually mean to you now? Well right now just in the wake of it coming out The feeling is mostly just like so excited That people are listening to it and that it's starting to mean something to them but It's meant a lot of different things to me. I I think As I was starting to finish it I really had thought i'd made a really happy record And I was starting to finish it and I realized there was this kind of like really dark undercurrent in it and I It made me want to write another song to like flesh out that undercurrent and that song was hanging there it was the last song written for the record um because I I started to hear that song popping out In the rest of the record, you know, like I was like, oh There's an unwritten song here. There's like a there's a secret in here And I think the secret has to be released. I think it has to be told. Are you pulling that from the lyrics? Yeah the lyrics and I yeah How do you is that? How does the last song begin? The very last song or the last one I wrote for it. Hang in there. Yeah, hang in there if that song begins Um, he said he could see through to your core You thought his heart was open like yours um Is that the first lyrics that came into your head? no, the first lyric that came into my head for that song last song was the bridge which is the Is there a way I could make it all easier to swallow? Um, that was the first lyric Um, are you talking to somebody? Yeah. Yeah the entire album. You really are right? Well kind of throughout the album Yeah, I mean there's there's lots of different people that each song is talking to about the album That song is pretty direct address and I really like and don't want to ruin The two different reads that i've been getting of the song and one of them is that it's like um Me talking to a friend who's been through something horrible And one is that it's me talking to a past another past maya um a past version of myself and trying to comfort the past self being like it's It is going to go as bad, you know, the chorus is he's going to get away with it I know i've been there but you're going to get the hang of it. Hang on hang in there and um The and being like, you know Something bad did happen and there will be no retribution like this person will not have to pay for their bad deeds and I think you know we're dealing with that a lot right now in the world like you know people Uh, you know getting charged on 31 32 counts of a crime I counted 34 counts of a crime and there's no uh, seemingly going to be no resident retribution Can't vote but can still run convicted criminals can't even go to toronto can't go to japan Can't run for a city like a city board can't run on to be on a school board But I guess there's some they can run for president loophole. It's on the federal, uh level you can run. Yeah I have a dream that like every ex-con Should just now enter the race Like we should just get like the richest ex-cons that exist like band together and should all get in on the race And there should be just two ex-cons. It's crazy, dude. Um, it's really crazy But anyway, so that's kind of like there sometimes there is no retribution, you know, sometimes good things happen to bad people And um, that's a reminder record you could One second your team has to come in and show you something. Apparently, is it my hair? Are they they're upset about my hair? What's wrong what's wrong? Oh, um, no not that's not it No, it's it's it's a nylon string. Thank you Thanks guys. No, no, it's okay. Yeah, it's all fine I i'm gonna play on the daily show in new york in a couple days and my guitar is in atlanta Um, so my friend is gonna fly my guitar from atlanta to new york So I can meet the guitar in new york and I can play on the daily show and there's a bunch of guitars in our house in atlanta and So they wouldn't want to bring a guitar. Is atlanta where you call home? No, it's where I call home this year because i'm shooting stranger things. Oh cool. I love atlanta Oh me too. Where do you stay when you go there? I mean my friend had a I mean Yeah, my friend lived there to shoot her show. I was there a few times. Oh, okay. Yeah, I I stay in cabbage town Cool, um, but I love it there really pretty. Mm-hmm. Really stranger things cool show. Very cool show. Yeah mazel tov to you Thank you. I mean i'm realizing i've now done this thing twice Where like stranger things is such a hit and it's so great and I joined season three And inside out is so amazing and it's such a hit and i'm joining movie two And i'm like, wow, i'm really just hopping on the like the rainbow projects. I'm just being like, oh sure. Oh it worked i'll get on um, but in a certain like way that is It's a harder task, right? Like there is a responsibility when you show up to that set or when you show up to the booth I mean obviously different sets of responsibility, but there's a common thread to the responsibility which is You're a part of something massive. Yes, and like you gotta show up or you gotta get out Yes It's true pressure pressure yeah, I mean My first season I felt a lot of pressure because I've said this before but I love tv And uh, I love tv so much and I love like episodic like uh Procedural like office comedies. I like a workplace comedy Or a workplace drama and which stranger things is not unless you consider the upside down a workplace, which maybe it is um, but I and when they introduce new characters I'm often heartbroken because i'm like I know this person is gonna Take screen time away from my old characters that I love and might even be dastardly transitioning them to leave the show Which I don't want um and so I was really nervous to come on a show like that and to have people be like Oh, no, I just want to be with freaking the characters. I love already. Why are you making me spend time with this? sarcastic teen um, and uh, I But it ended up going great and I think that going great has given me a lot of confidence that might be unearned because I really think that companies or not companies creators like the duffer brothers and like um pixar and like the you know, the people the creatives around inside out are People who know how to introduce a new character, you know, they do it over and over again And it's it's not even about the actor actor necessarily. I think it's really about the skill of bringing Of showing the audience why it's exciting that their world is being broken By the way also adds to the responsibility, right? Like you have to be that professional you have to be that person who shows up ready to do their thing Yeah, you're trained for it. You are not green as they say Well, i'm a little I mean i'm maybe i'm like turquoise. That's cool. Yeah I mean, is there like truth to your speed of talking? And your character on stranger things? I don't know you've talked to me for a little while now Do you think there's truth? I don't I don't I mean apparently you can get through crazy amounts of dialogue really quickly I just I can do that for the sake of transparency. I have not watched all the stranger things. That's fine And I bailed before your season. I'm just again. This is a space. I like it doesn't hurt my feelings at all Yeah, there's enough people watching They're good. Yeah, uh, i'm watching other things on netflix. No robin does some fast talking I mean i'm a fast talker. I think generally yeah, but it's very clear. It's very clear Thank you, but it's not like a trisha paytas speed talk. It's a very It gives anxiety Well, I think that's partly why I got that part um, I think that the the robin kind of like I don't know. I just thought that we could go do this and then we could do that and then And like I think that that that's kind of what got me the part of anxiety Can you like? What is that process like? The process of working on stranger things of working on inside out or talking fast I mean, okay, let's start with All three, but let's start with anxiety because that's a huge call to get and do you want you have to audition, right? Yeah, I did an audition. Um, I but I I Think a huge part of it was the robin of it all. Um, but I I did an audition and I cried in my audition. Um, Because I just being explained the plot of the movie. I made me weep. Oh and um So and then I read for the character, but I in my own life I have this and I i've said this a ton recently in this press i've done front side out But in my own life, I created this character to voice my own anxiety so that like let's say We've got to go to the airport and I understand that we're going to be on time I understand that we're going to be early even if we leave in half an hour But actually I am going to be really nervous throughout the whole drive I'm going to the airport and i'll be so much more relaxed if we just leave right now and then we can go right now And then and then i'll feel better and I know that i'm being crazy But then maybe you just want me to feel better because then i'll be less crazy and then you'll feel better because I won't Be crazy, you know, I kind of came up with this little voice As a way to talk about my anxiety to my friends So that they understood that I knew I was being irrational but that this is how they could help me You know and and meet meet my irrationality a little bit so that we could all have a better time my boyfriend does this Really? Yeah, when's your what's your when's your birthday? July 8th interesting When is your boyfriend's birthday? He's a pisces. They're not the same But that that's a really beautiful sense of awareness, right? And also care for those that you love and want to love you. Thank you Um, well, I it's just kind of a funny little joke, but I then Kind of got this audition And I was like, oh That's anxiety Like this character that i'd created in my own That was the first time I was like, oh, I think I have a shot of getting this part Because this character that I created to help me take care of myself Could help me take care of riley as anxiety use that character to communicate with those around you In my life. Yeah, mostly like my my near and dear. I mean people I go to the airport with You know It's pretty cool. Yeah, and a response by the way, like one of the coolest things a human being can do Is take on the responsibility of being any disney pixar character? I mean it really is like has that set in at all? It's a pretty big deal. I mean, uh, it's it's I mean Where dreams come true, you know, it's it's a it It's really especially in a movie like this, you know This movie I believe is something really good to put into the world, you know, and it's rare to get to put anything Good into the world, you know, even good movies sometimes aren't good things to put into the world This is you know, like this is Positive and it helps people I call it priming you for empathy I think this the inside out movies prime you for empathy and they they get you ready to look at you and know that You have all these guys going on in your head too And like we're the same, you know, like oh you're as complicated and strange and stressed and Loving a person as I think I am And any movie that can make you look at people that way and remember their humanity and remember their pain And make you laugh and is safe for kids and is fun for the whole family I mean, it's just like It's a special rare rainbow thing It will play such a pivotal role in so many lives. I know like the introduction of what I mean like Even just on the baseline of like the introduction of the feeling of anxiety and what that is to somebody like that is crazy I know you are that voice I know and especially in this time period, you know, I mean, I like that. Amy Poehler says that she said pixar is not gaslighting us You know by bringing in a character like anxiety it's been 10 years since the last inside out movie And it's been a really brutal 10 years and kids are stressed, you know, they're stressed um and i'm so honored to get to play this character who Helps to depict what their stress looks like, you know, even there's an amazing scene in the movie spoilers Okay, but it's not really a plot spoiler, but it's a spoiler where Anxiety hacks into riley's imagination and gets this like magical place that used to be full of Lollipops and candy canes and pillow forts and turns it into a factory for creating worst-case scenarios um and I don't know. It really moves me and I think it's I'm, you know, it's it's still disney. It's not like it goes into like i've been talking about this a lot like They asked me if I relate to riley uh, and I I was Riley is my dream kid and the dream kid. I wish I was, you know She's like is having a lot of pain and a lot of stress, but it's within the realm of like a healthy human having stress um and I was so much more delinquent and uh depressed as a teenager, um and I But I think that I still relate to riley Riley because they give you the tools of all these emotions and you can imagine what the salt shaker combo is in your mind You know, you can look at riley's salt shaker combo and the spices that are going into her soup and be like, oh wow Yeah, they put way too much paprika in mine, you know um, but uh So yeah, I think it'll be good riley is designed for everybody to like see themselves in her What she's going to choose her degree. You're right like you you understand the ingredients and how you're made up Really beautifully said and very like You're eventually going to see like a like a character of anxiety and like you're going to be like a human size Anxiety is going to be standing in front of you. Are you prepared for that? I am. It's another really cool thing about animation is you're It doesn't Can I say ****? Yeah. Okay. It doesn't **** with your head as much, you know, it it when you go to see a giant billboard of your face on something You're like what is my life? Who am I? What is happening? Like is this changing my life forever? Or is this a flash in the pan? Like what? What is this? Um And why is my face on the street? Um, but when you see your animated character as a giant doll or a poster It's just you just feel gratitude You know, you just like I I don't I didn't draw that character. I didn't come up with how she looks I Influenced how she moves a little bit with my gestures and I lent my voice to her But I just feel gratitude that I was given the opportunity to lend my voice to that kind of character and it it's like oh That's my friend. That's not me I'm my friend anxiety, you know is is a big is and i'm so proud of my friend. It doesn't feel like it's me pretty cool you the way you rationalize like yourself on a billboard that still it's having famous parents helped you rationalize that or understand that or Still just as weird Weirder than I thought. Yeah when I imagined My life and what i'd learn from my childhood and how I would take it forward I I did not expect it to be as weird as I experienced it as is fame what you saw Just watching your parents First of all, I barely feel famous um, I feel like moderately famous, um, which is I know is it also kind of irrational, but I think that Fame has also changed so much truth. Um, it since the 90s How crazy is that when you think like and you've had the weirdest seed to the evolution? Yeah, pretty cool. Um, and so it's changed so much and so it's so different than what it looked like when I was a kid um, and uh So Is it what I expected? Whatever this is that I am in whether or not that is famous it is I I I don't know what to say. I I don't know if I I expected some there are things that are what I expected There are elements that make sense to me like I know what it feels like to get tonight I'm going to go to the inside out premiere and I I understand what it's like to go to a premiere I've seen people go to them. I have gone to them like you get dressed up you go to this thing. It looks very glamorous It's actually your toes hurt but like it is glamorous and it's fun and you get to see the people that you made the thing with and it's like Okay, great. Um, I know what that looks like I the whole social media aspect of it is so different than anything I could have understood or expected um the pop-culture phenomenon of a television show Is so different than anything either of my parents had um uh and like or you know, we're a part of like the It's it's really I don't know. It's it's all different. Um, but it's interesting and I continue to Enjoy the intellectual exercise of navigating it Because it's different. Can you seek guidance from your parents? Do they understand? sometimes yeah, I mean like in a I think in a pretty normal way like They I think what's Helpful about it is they've known me for a really long time Oh, no way. Yeah, and so they can um uh reference How these different things are impacting my development And what might be developmentally damaging or beneficial to engage in or do? um and so it's that kind of advice that I think I seek more than anything else. It's like am I ready for this? Is that cheesy? Like is should I should I put all my eggs in this basket or not? What do you think you know that kind of thing? And by the way, like that's the most invaluable advice, right? Like that could that could end up shaping the moves you make and the creator you become the artist you become What are like, how do you? When it comes to music, right? Are you making this music solely for yourself or do you care at all about anybody else? It's I i'm actually currently having a really hard time with that question because when I am in the act of creating something streams People liking it people reviewing it. Well, whatever is the furthest thing from my imagination I am like just thinking about the song. What do I think is cool? What do you think is cool the other people in the room like can we do something? New can we can we try something different? Like I don't know and that's how my brain is working. It doesn't occur to me to think about selling the thing and then It comes out And I find myself completely desperate to have everybody like it Like just wanting to be liked so badly And I have to have real talkings with myself where i'm like, well, we have two choices here, right? We either can focus more on being liked while we're being creative um And like we need to and we can consult with some people We like we need to consult with some people who have made things that people like and we need to get some more cooks in this kitchen and like we need to You know, maybe maybe you got to work with some other kinds of people who make more poppy No, maybe you got to figure that out or we have to make a different decision Which is we have to figure out how to care less about being liked um And on the on the back end and if when I put it to myself that way The choice seems very obvious it's like become a new person or You know build a thicker skin. Yeah, um, and I would much rather build a thicker skin than become a new person Um, but but it is tricky But it is it is deeply attached to the deeper why right like why do you choose why do you need to make something? Why do you need to craft art? Like why do you need to make it? What why is? Music the right vessel like what do you get what i'm saying? Like it's the why okay. I have a question. Yeah if if somebody says something you like like if there's like a You or you see something on tv that you like like an expression. Yeah. What do you do with it? Expression. I mean like a phrase A phrase or just something you've never heard before like it. Um, something that touched you I mean Sure, would you write it so you would you write it down? I mean, maybe yeah, or maybe to hold it in your head and remember it later. Yeah like I I want to understand why I liked it. I want to understand like in a deep way. Why did that thing that person said? Why did it matter to me? What what touched me about that? And And then I want to figure out What what what's the deal with the language of the phrase? Is it is it rhythmic? Like is there internal rhyme? Is there assonance? Is there consonants? Like why does this phrase work? Why why does it move the needle? Why does it get into your head? and then Usually through the process of asking those questions I'm, like, okay. What is what how does it apply to my life? And then kind of I want to add more phrases onto it I want to keep writing and keep building and and creating kind of a longer Tower of analysts, you know Analyzing why something hit me. Um, your desire is to connect. Yeah And and so that's one way and then the other way is that I can have a really powerful feeling that I want to communicate to someone and I Want to express it to them and I don't feel like I can tell them or talk about it And so I want to write a song Those are kind of the two ways you can listen to all my music. It's waiting for you on amazon music. There's a link below Click click click all three albums hanging out there You did have a lyric that stuck out to me and dark when you said just one more ice cream scoop out of your brain I have no idea what that means, but something about it just stuck with me. That's so cool well, isn't there an old expression about like, um From like anti-drug campaigns from the Like 80s about like, oh, yeah, it's gonna take an ice cream scoop out of your brain. Don't you remember this a little bit? This is true. Um, so it's a joke about that. Got it. Um it's like uh kind of the end is a version of like someone going in to have like a Transcendental experience. Um at the end of the song to kind of try to break out of their depression Um, which is where you get the like pink matter dark matter corporate ladder glass shattered it's like the world is like you're making connections you wouldn't normally make and going to have a Transcendental experience to get out of your blues, which is uh, that is a form of Like management for depression, correct? It is. Yeah, usually a last resort Usually a last resort. Yeah, very weird conversation that's been coming up recently. Yes. Yes Do you do it? Have you done it? I i'm not sure which one you're talking about tms or what are you talking about? No, i'm talking about transcend. I'm talking about mushrooms. Oh, oh, yeah people do that, too People do that too, which is I think less of a last resort. Yeah, definitely less less of a last could be a first resort Could be a first resort. Um, actually do a ******* hero dose and get some Understand your problem and understand your problems and that i've done a couple times in my life And I find it to be extremely wonderful. Um, I haven't messed with anything else I'm, i'm a little bit of that stupid like even though I know that like everything that is made on the earth is natural Because it is made on the earth like i'm a little bit like if it grows in the ground i'm, okay with it I respect that and um So but that's that's that's what I meant by transcendental god. I gotta I fucked up but I shrooms are good shrooms are You know They're good get the answers. I don't know if they have answers, but I think that they can help They can help you. I mean the only answer they ever gave me was that god was a mushroom Um interesting where I was like you egomaniacal plant like what do you like, you know, I just took mushrooms and it was like I was like, oh my god god is mushrooms and I was like This plant has a huge ego, you know, um, but um, that's the only direct answer they've ever given me but I think they can help you ask better questions and like kind of explore your emotional landscape and like Smooth out the waters, you know Because you're right the plant does have an ego the plant does have an ego. It's so true It's an ego we plant everything starts to look like mycelium and like Uh, you can see the connections and the folds and like the mold and everything Yeah mold starts to look kind of beautiful. Yes. It's like it's clouds look like mold I was like you this is an ego we plant or mushrooms are god and I just solved it damn damn anything's possible Damn, you want to take him down? Uh, no Not really. No Okay. Sorry. I was just told you need to wrap. Oh, okay Well black ice I wanted to talk about it great great record. Thank you. Um, You become an angel in human form. Does that make sense when we put it that way? Yeah. Yeah, does it? No And that's kind of my point. I think I mean I I think that that that that's too much too. I mean, maybe you've read that That's from a therapy session that I had as a kid That's some crazy weird witches who said that to me And I think my point is it does not make sense when you put it that way. I am not an angel Why are you telling me that i'm an angel that is too high a bar? Like i'm gonna go through life thinking that i'm an angel now And that like I have to do all this good all the time and I feel like a lot of pressure Like i'm no, it does not make sense when you put it that way Like you know what? I mean? So how did okay, but that record written by a couple people right your brother's on that record. He is Yeah, your boyfriend's on that record. He is. Yeah, jesse harris. Yeah, he is Um and is sadie Doing background vocals on that record. Yeah So, okay. How does that explain to me the process basically? I mean this is to me actually weirdly even though it has a thousand writers on it the song that I maybe kind of wrote the most by myself But I brought it. I I was really nervous about writing songs by myself. Um at this period in time And so I brought it to like everyone um And I showed it to my brother and he helped me reharmonize the chords and I showed it to jesse and he helped me reharmonize the chords and I um and then I Later showed it to christian and we reharmonized the chords and and we changed the melody at the end where you know We added that kind of give up beloved kind of repeating extended chorus and um, and he wrote Something else on it. I can't remember what right now, but um uh, but so I was kind of just like really seeking help because I I'd never put out a song that I was a musical writer on at all And I was incredibly worried that it was going to be bad because I had been a writer on it So I was seeking a lot of feedback I get that though. Like you want to know you want to understand? Yeah I mean How do you take feedback you apply it? Obviously? I'm pretty good with feedback. I think usually uh, if i'm as long as i'm in a good mood, I think sometimes if i'm too excited about my idea and I think it's too good in some way like if i'm really like it and someone's Like I don't know then I can be a little like ha ha. Um, but if i'm if i've asked the question Ah, i'm not good with unsolicited feedback. I'm great with solicited feedback. Amen. Amen Yeah, like if you're in the mode for constructive criticism, yeah, if you're like, what do you think of this? Yes Yes, did your boyfriend produce the entire album? He did. Does that make it easier? We weren't dating at the time Interesting, but we'd been friends for for four years. Well, but there's records on there about past love yes, so What is it like to craft that with the person you're in love with or? Might as I mean probably we're falling in love with during this process probably maybe um, uh, it is Um awesome. I mean, I I cannot recommend highly enough dating your friends It's the best they know you they understand that you are a person and a human being who has dated other people Who has dated them who has like who has feelings and is a is a living breathing human? not just a like a you know a piece of paper for them to project their image of perfect girlfriend onto and um, so I It's the best. Um, you know to feel seen in that way to feel like someone you're falling in love with can help you Work on a song about a time. You were in love with somebody else. It's so healthy. It's pretty freaking awesome Yeah, it's pretty awesome that person who understands your little anxiety voice about getting to the airport on time They do understand and you can share it. Yeah It's really special. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Yeah, this album is really cool. Listen to chaos angel. It's waiting for you There's a link below. It's all on amazon music All three albums are totally up there and you know, you probably don't need a reminder, but you should go see inside out, too Thank you. You're really you're very cool I keep saying that but uh come back on whenever you want as you drop albums as whatever. We're always here Oh, I would love that. Thank you so much. I can't wait to be here again You're wonderful to talk to yeah real recognizes real my hawk everybody You