Bella Thorne | High Low with EmRata

Bella Thorne, welcome to High Low with Imrata. I'm so thrilled you're here. I'm so happy to be here. Okay, I want to start with the first time I remember meeting you. Do you remember the first time we met? Okay. It was a long ass time ago. It was on a set of a nylon magazine shoot in downtown LA. And I must have been, it was over, it was probably like 11 years ago. You were with your mom and we, your stylist at the time was a mutual friend of mine. And I remember meeting you and it was like before I had done Blurred Lines, but I think you were, obviously you were popping, you were on show and whatever. And yeah, I just like, so I have known you and feel, felt connected to you for over a decade, which is pretty crazy. Wow, that's cool. Yeah. It was like, I feel like they were like fun, young talent, like coming out of like, it was definitely like 2013. Damn. Yeah. I want to like go back to see what I looked like in 2013, just to like see. You were a baby girl for sure. You were a baby girl. But how old would you have been then? I'm 25 now. Okay. So you were, you were a baby girl. You were 15. Holy shit. 15? Yeah. Oh man, that was my Wolfie stage. Okay. What's the Wolfie stage? You know, where everything kind of grows out of order. Oh, okay. Like your nose keeps growing for like two years and then like everything else. I was also, when I got incredibly skinny, I have a lot of anxiety. And during my like 14 to 17 years, all those years, my anxiety was like, just incredibly terrible. And I, you can just see it. If you like look up photos of me from that time, I'm so skinny. I actually look like a bobblehead. Put me on your, you know, dashboard. I'm the same way when I'm anxious and stressed. I lose weight. You lose so much weight. And I can't physically eat when I'm really anxious. And when I'm on set all the time, and you know too, like when you have a lot of things coming up, like for me, if I start chewing food, I'll like actually throw up in my mouth. Like, I cannot physically put it down. So I have to just do juices and like chicken broth and bone broth and like different. Toast. Plain toast is my trick. Really? I wish I could get down to the place. Because it's the chewing. It's a chewing for me. As soon as I start chewing something, I'm like, and it's just, yeah. And during that stage in my life, I think I was just like at my like darkest places. And I think for a lot of women too, we all experienced that definitely throughout all those teenage years of just like trying to figure out who you are. And then all of a sudden you're coming into your body and people start looking at you as like sex and not like, you know, that whole age range, I feel like is quite confusing and can be really stressful as well. I mean, for you especially, like when did you start acting and when did you start working? I started acting when I was eight and I started modeling when I was six weeks old. Wow. Your mom said get to work. Well, yeah, literally. She was like fresh out the womb. Let's go. My siblings were already models as well. So I actually had pottery barn babies booked before I was out of the womb. I literally I was physically in my mother's stomach and my brother was at a shoot for them and they were like, oh, what does it do? And she gave him the date and they're like, oh, that's perfect. That's just when we're shooting this thing. And my mom was like, you don't know if it's a boy or a girl yet. And they were like, oh, it doesn't matter at that age. Blue, pink. It's nothing like you just can't even tell. Oh, my God. So wait, you were on set before you were born. Literally. You were on set when you were still in your mom's stomach. You were booking jobs when you hadn't even joined the living. Literally. And I say child actor. But this is like this is in vitro model. I blame my mom for my my stigmatism in my eyes, like because I'm like, I shouldn't have had flashes that young. That is, you know, like that's like that that should be blinding. I have a friend who makes fun of me. I have very bad eyesight. And I told the flash and he was like, you have got to be ******* kidding me. You did not just tell me that you have bad eyesight because of the flashes of the camera. Like, OK, supermodel. And I was like, I'm sorry, but it's facts. Like, it's true. I watch it. Is that right? Because then when you close your eyes and just in general, even when your eyes are open, yeah, you have that like blackness with that bright light that it's also my excessive iPhone use. I will admit has probably fucked up my eyesight, but it's the flashes. So I just lost my phone over Art Basel. OK, I didn't lose it the night that we went out and partied all night and stayed up till 10 a.m. I didn't lose it that night. No, no, no. I lost it the next day, hung over, trying to change hotels, getting on a flight. That's when I lost my phone. You're half a person. And yeah, well, I'm like one half of a person. Yeah, like 10 percent of a person. You're actually you're in a Pottery Barn campaign at six weeks old again. When you're that messed up, like you can be responsible for a phone. Exactly. And and like I've been genuinely surprised. I've been out of a phone for like two days and I'm like chilling. Wow. I haven't had my phone. Luckily, I have my my right hand, Victoria, who has a phone. OK, so like for all my business. Yes, yes. So at least none of my businesses are falling apart. But you're not like up on social media and doing. Yeah, I like I'm really proud of my non-phone addiction. I feel like it's taken me a minute to get there. When did you start having anxiety? You said like 14, but like. Yeah, I think I think it started probably when I was much younger than that. But I only I think realized it when I was like 14, 15, when that actually started becoming a conversation in the world. What is anxiety? I remember when I was 13, I was walking out of the Galleria. I just seen a movie and I'm walking and I just like just faceplant because I had this anxiety cramp where I have some stomach issues in general. And when I get anxiety, I get this cramp in my chest, like right underneath my rib cage where I can't breathe. And I like I just I really just can't breathe at all. And it's it feels like I can't move because it's it's it is so tight. It feels like someone's actually like stabbing through my lungs. It's a terrible feeling. And I remember just like falling to the floor. And I stay there for like a good solid 10 minutes. And my friends were just like, what are you doing on the concrete of the Galleria? What is happening right now? And that I never understood what that was. And older and older. And I got like an upper ostomy colonoscopy when I turned 18 because of how bad my situation was. And they were like, oh, yeah, we found nothing. It's just anxiety. Like take some Xanax, take some of this. And I don't believe in taking pills. So that was like another thing. And then I found weed and that helped me out a lot. Yeah, I mean, I am. It's funny. I had anxiety as a child and I didn't know how to describe it. So I called it the woozies to my mom because it was like I was like it was like feeling like carsick, basically. And I was like, oh, I get like so woozy and get sad. And it was and anyways, the essay in my book is called The Woozies. But it's really hard when you're a child and you don't have the language to describe what you're feeling. Yeah. And, you know, and how your parents can actually help you with that. Yeah. Yes. So you were working so young, which adds like a whole other element to your life. I mean, I being a kid is hard in general, but I feel like people now have an understanding of like how difficult being a child star is and working. Like, what's your relationship to that time in your life? Did you grow up in L.A.? I grew up in Miami, Florida. But then I moved to L.A. when I was eight. So when you started modeling like Pottery Barn, that was in Miami. OK. All right. And your mom and your parents are from Florida or? Yes. OK. Yeah. My father is first generation, a Cuban-American. Yes. I actually didn't know that. But I think it's really cool that you've kind of talked about that in your Latina identity more. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think as well, like when my father was alive, growing up to my Latin heritage was so big in my family, like my first language is Spanish. And then I think when he died, it felt like my roots kind of died with him. And that as I get older, I'm just really trying to bring my roots back. I'm trying to I don't know, bring him back alive. And that way, get further into my heritage to understand my community more. And and I think the older I get, the more I realize how important that that is to me. I think, you know, especially to like when you're younger and you're mad and you're like a little bit angry at the world, too. You're kind of like just like, **** it. And I think as you get older, you realize just how much you really do need your family, just how much you really do care about morals, just how much you really do when you get older and you want to start building a life and having kids and doing these things, how much your roots and where you come from, your identity. Yeah, it does. It does play a big role in who you are. Yeah, that makes so much sense. You're the oldest sibling of I'm the youngest. Oh, you're the youngest. OK, wow. So you have your sister, Danny, who I met. And then your brother. Yeah. Yeah. And Remy. OK, so it's the three of you. And I'm so sorry. Yes. Four of you. Yes. So I'm really sorry about losing your dad. That must have been awful. You were seven, right? Eight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, it was so shitty. And I I think that death is such an interesting thing. I describe it in my book as well, just like this crane, this crane that has like these big pile of like rocks on you. And it's just like crushing you and suffocating you. Every year, this crane just like slowly lifts up one and another and another. And they they say like, oh, well, death like gets easier with time. You know, it gets better. And you're like, well, it doesn't ever really get better. But it makes me feel less like I'm dying every day, that I'm that it's that it's suffocating me. And yeah, yeah, I think for every person, anybody that loses any type of close relative or friend, especially when you're young, too, it's like really affects your health and who you are and builds you as the person you are. Yeah, I mean, of course. And talk about when you don't have the language to like grief is such a specific experience and emotion. I have one of my close my closest friends lost both of her parents suddenly within two years as an adult. And she talks a lot about grief. And I've learned a lot about her experience with it. And thinking about being a child and not having the ability to process the very complicated emotions. I totally like what you just put into visualization really makes sense to me of like, it's especially kind of coming into adulthood and like realizing like, OK, I can lift these rocks up and I can come out of that. So when did you move to L.A. with your mom and your and your siblings, too, right? Um, when I was like eight and a half, nine between that year. And that is the same year that my dad died. Oh, my God. I'm so sorry. So there's so many transitions in one year. That's a lot for a little kid. Yeah. Yeah. So many. And I think that now like then we we didn't know how to say that even just in that time as well. It just wasn't a big deal. Like, you know what I mean? Parents still like very much hit their kids regularly during that time. You know, so it's just like things have changed in so many years. And now if you were to tell a parent or like a parent was to tell another parent, oh, yeah, I'm going to move my kids and have this big life change and have this big life change in this big life change on one year. Everybody was like, well, you're crazy. That's not a good idea. Right. But we just our parents also didn't have that language of what was too much, what wasn't enough. Yes. Yeah. No, it's crazy how much therapy and like therapy talk and thinking about that stuff has infiltrated our culture, like in a way that even I mean, you're you're 25 years old, like, but your childhood was so different than I think like people who are raising their kids. Now, hopefully there's at least the language around these things and like being really cognizant of taking care of your kids and like how to be careful around those kinds of things. So what made you guys move to L.A.? Was it for work or? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It was for acting. And were your siblings acting too? Okay. So all three of you were. Yeah. They actually acted before me. I was the one that took the longest. And that's because I was dyslexic and I couldn't read. And it just took me so much longer as well, like with the Spanish speaking first and then having to drop it to learn English, then learn how to read. And then it was just it was it was just so much. And then my brother one day he was on a show and he was like, oh, you know, why not try it? No one's going to know in Florida if you failed. So you might as well. And he was right. Wow. So then you just started auditioning? Yeah. Yeah. Auditioning. The first thing I did was Entourage. Oh, my God. What did you play in Entourage? I played this little girl when Turtle is like looking for I forget who he's looking for in the scene. And I'm just like, what? Like, what are you doing here? I don't know this guy. Oh, my God. Wow. The Internet needs to dig that clip up and find that for us. I mean, I'm sure you have it, but like, damn, do people do the streets know that your big like coming out moment was on Entourage? Oh, my God. How the hell did your mom manage having three working kids? That must have been crazy. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how she did it, honestly, especially just with my father as well. And when she died, we went into debt and there were so many bad things. And my poor mom was just really like, you know, tearing out her hair. And not only did she have like three, you know, all of us to to try and take care of every day, but we're also, you know, ******* driving her crazy and working. And she like has to make sure we still have the lights on at home. Like, yeah, I think I grew up a lot kind of being mad at my mom and mad at my situation. And in the older I get, I I realize like just how tough some of those situations were that she was in. And just how much, you know, we're all human beings. And it's insane to think that we're never going to make these kind of mistakes and whatnot, because when you're put in really bad situations, no answer is right. They're all kind of wrong. They're all shitty options. You just have to take one of them. Yeah. But your career started to take off, right? I mean, like what age would you say your career took off? And like, what was the thing? Well, I don't know. I worked so much before Disney, but then I feel like Disney is like what made me famous. So I feel like that, I guess, is when my career took off. And how old were you? 12. That's so ******* young. Have you met? Have you hung out with a 12 year old? No, I don't. They're so baby. And it's so I'm sure like my therapist all the time will be like, do you like think about a 12 year old or think about it, whatever. And you're like, oh, my God. Because you yourself don't feel or I didn't feel like a child when I was 12 or whatever. I felt like me, you know? And now you meet people and getting famous at 12 is some serious, like that's a I got famous as a young adult and it was a trip. Yeah. Weren't you like 18? No, I was like 21. Okay. Which is young, but it's not, you know, I still had had like my high school experience and, you know, I wasn't like a child. I definitely was really naive in many, many ways. But was it what was it like to be like in the public eye at such a young as a kid? I think it was just ******* stressful. It was just hard being everything everybody wanted me to be. I think that was that's always a tough one. It still is to this day hard to be things that you think you should be, because other people say that that's the way to do them. Yeah. And it's really hard to like still balance out your own self. Like people tell me all the time, like, oh, wow, you really don't give a ****. It's so amazing. And I'm like, I clearly give a ****, guys. I give a lot of fucks. I don't know what you're talking about. But the other half of me is like constantly. I've got one half of me being like, okay, well, you should care. And then I've got the other half of me being like, no, that's not right. Because how much do you care is like worth? How much are you actually going to be happy in life? Like how much of yourself are you willing to lose for this idea of happiness or this idea of what you think people want from you? Because that's what they say. Yeah. And when you're a kid, you don't get to control that as much, right? Like you don't you're just as a child in general, like you just don't have the choices your parents are making them for you. And like every day you're finding yourself. Even at our age, we're still finding ourselves. We're still going to be finding ourselves for the rest of our lives. We're never going to like know who you are. And I think the hard part about that age is that you really have you really have no idea who you are. And so because you're so influenced by this is what you are. This is what you are like. And this is what you should. Yeah. And that that can just be really confusing, I think, as a child, because then you're like, oh, is is this really what I am like? I had to talk in a whole different voice. My voice has been this this tone since I was that little. I've always had a deep voice. And people used to think it made me sound negative and it made me sound like a man. So they literally like I spoke in interviews when you like look up these little clips of me when I'm speaking on the carpet and you can hear my little tiny sweet voice. Wow. So you were acting all the time. Yeah, all the time. And that was I think that that that also when I turned a certain age, just made me like really just so angry and really just hate who I was. And all the lies that I had been spilling my whole life and, you know, saying my favorite color was pink. That drove me nuts. You're like, my favorite color isn't pink. It's not pink! Stop painting my rooms like this. Well, when you're a kid, the whole business of being a little person is to try to figure out like who you are. And if your livelihood and your family's livelihood is attached to like being someone else and building a persona, I can imagine that's super ******* confusing. And being a woman. So not only is this persona that you have to like build and stuff, but because you're a woman, you actually have to be the sweet little girl with the high pitch voice. Or as soon as you turn 15, why isn't she sexy? She's going to be a character actress then. Like, why isn't she? You know, it's like all these things, like as soon as you just like this age and that age, you're just like hitting these like milestone marks for people to tell you, OK, now you have to do this. And like, oh, well, if you haven't had sex by the time you're 19, like, oh, that's an issue. You know, why haven't you done it? Oh, but if you lost your virginity when you were 15, now you're a slut. And like you lost it too early. It was just like every single thing as well because of that too, I think just made it so much more difficult because it's like so hard to grow up and, you know, start to get your first sexual attractions and start to like like somebody and do all that. And then you got to do it with like not only the whole world watching you, too, but like specifically men and people and women around you telling you, oh, no, this is like the box you have to fit in. OK, you're out of that box now because you're like a little bit older than that. So now let's put you in another box. OK, now this one is so much related to your sexuality. Yes. And that was I think that that was the thing that always like I feel like I've rocked the word sex for a long time and I'll always keep rocking this word because it's like it's what's been put on me since I was so little. And then yet it's still something that I've taken so much power of my own power back by owning that word. Well, I mean, it's funny you say the thing about like basically feeling like you're you're 15 years old and all of a sudden you're supposed to be sexualized. Yeah. I mean, that's so young and it's crazy. So weird to think about. Why are you guys always wanting to sexualize this 15 year old? Like, well, also, though, and there's like a limit, like they want you to be sexual, but they don't want you to be too sexual because they know that's basically illegal. Uh huh. So it's this weird what I started modeling when I was 14 and I had like my body that I have now. And it was this really strange like dance of like, well, she is sexual and that's why she's working like we are sexualizing her. But also like, whoa, don't be like a slut or because it's uncomfortable. And it was so confusing for me. And I actually I wrote about this in my book. I had this experience when I was 18 or no, I was I was in high school still. So I was 16 years old and an agent was flipping through my book and they like pointed to my picture. And I was with my friend who was also modeling at the time with the same agency. And they were like, this face, this is how we know this girl gets fucked. Yeah. And my and they were like, we got you got to give a lesson, Emily, on this. And I remember being like flattered and also obviously so embarrassed and horrified. And now, of course, looking back, I'm like, that is so fucked up that they said that to a 16 year old girl. Oh, my God. But that is the reality of, you know, being a young woman in the industry and being like underage, but also the weird fetishization we do with like underage girls. I have. Wow. That just like my brain is like, take a moment just to like just digest, just digest that for a moment. Yeah. I had a director give me feedback once and I was 10. And they call the casting director calls my agent. My agent calls my mom and they're like, so he she's not moving forward because the director felt like she was flirting with him and it made him really uncomfortable. Oh, my God, you were 10. What the **** are you talking about, man? I don't give a **** what the **** I said. I don't care if I said eat my pussy right now. She is 10 years old. Why would you think that? Why? Also him feeling like it was acceptable and like that it was a real issue. It was an issue that it made him so uncomfortable. Also, like you're in a director session. You can't really like say or do much. You do the scene. Also, that's a child. Walk out. There's no time to like, let me go sit on your lap or like make you feel uncomfortable. What the **** are you talking about? Putting it on a 10 year old child and making it like they made an adult man uncomfortable is insane. Is so insane. Like and then that was relayed to a casting director who was happy to relay that to your mom. To my agents. Like if you need a more fucked up story about Hollywood and like pedophilia and the sexualization of children, like I don't know that there is one. Like how how in your mind? Like it's like like I'm just trying to think and I still I still go back to this every day. Like and I'm trying to find almost fault in myself. Like, well, what did you do, Bella? Like what did you do that you made him feel like this? You were 10. You didn't like every time. I'm like, stop it. I mean, he was becoming a part of the problem. That's right. There is a part of the problem. Don't even think that thought like and but it does drive. It does drive me crazy. Like it because it's kind of the same thing of like when let's say something happens and you're like, oh, no, he took it too far. He did all these things. And then somebody goes, well, what did you do that made him feel like that he should kiss you or that he should take that moment to like take advantage? Like, did you do something? And you're like, like, that's like, well, it's a mentality. It's shame. But when you're a child, I mean, the most important thing you can do as an adult is forgive yourself and realize like I was a ******* kid and that man. I hope that person is not successful and I hope they rot in hell. Because your words from Emily, I'm like, I hope they rot in hell. Wow. Yeah. So then I mean, that's the thing with Disney, right? Like we don't have to get in the specifics of Disney, but I think it speaks to like the larger culture around Hollywood and, you know, teenage girls specifically where you need to be pretty, you need to be this certain thing. But then like the scale of like you're you are sexualized, but then also you're not supposed to be that sexual. It's like Britney Spears. Exactly what we've seen, like what she had happened to her where it's like where the pigtails, but be a virgin, like, but gyrate in a miniskirt. But, you know, exactly. Let this be your biggest hit song that makes you a star in this schoolgirl skirt. And let's like make you this like little sexy girl that is literally in high school. And then let's also be super mad that you're wearing that skirt in the first place, but also be jerking off under the table at the same time. Bro, what the **** do you want from me, man? Yeah, this is just absolutely makes literally no sense. One time I almost got fired off the Disney Channel because I was 14 and I wore a two piece on the beach. And the stylist that I was hanging out with put this chain on me. That's like a body chain. I don't know. I don't care. There is a fan. They got a photo of me on the beach. I almost got fired. It was all over the media. It was literally viral in that time. And it was how dare this little girl do this? This is so disgusting. But where I'm also like, but I'm from Florida. We changed topless on the beach until we were of a certain age. Nobody found that weird. That's just in our mind. So not only were they sexualizing you. I know you're going to. They were also blaming you. Yes, blaming me and putting Disney under pressure to fire me. And obviously Disney didn't fire me. And they were like, you know, but they were also they were like, hey, we're getting a lot of heat for this. Everyone's getting heat for this because you're in a bikini on the beach. So she needs to make sure that she goes out in boy shorts and a loose T-shirt next time she's at the beach. And we were just like. But then also they want you to look hot on a red carpet. Yes, that doesn't make any sense. Guys, I mean, it's so fucked up. It's like really crazy and scary. And like the roots of pedophilia are so. And it makes me genuinely so scared to like have a child and it be a girl. Yeah, because I just I'm like, oh, God, how do you tell your like little girl that every day she steps out of the house once she might be raped to like? Don't trust anybody. And three, like every time you get dressed in the morning, you're going to be thinking about how you are in this beautiful enough for this or sexy enough for this or why are you so sexy? You're too young, but also be sexy. And like, oh, you haven't had your first kiss yet. Well, then you must be like, you know, a loser in school or where you've had had your first kiss while you're too young. You must be a slut. Like it's just how do you have that conversation with your daughter? Because that's a really shitty one. And I really don't think I want to have that conversation. I'm terrified of it. I had I have a son. But honestly, when I was thinking about having a little girl, I was like, I don't even know where to begin. I'm not sure that I can handle this. I'm I feel so protective and so scared. And I'm not sure what the right way is to have these conversations with young women, you know, but I think having these conversations like as who you are now as an adult woman is really helpful to, you know, young girls and fem presenting people to be able to be like, OK, like that makes that these things aren't just me. I'm not I shouldn't be ashamed. There's nothing wrong with me. This is a part of our culture in our world. And how do we change it? Would you let would you if you had a kid, would you let them work in Hollywood or would you make them wait? Um, I think it'd be depending on how much they harass me about it. Yeah, I think if they were just harassed and harassed and harassed, then I'd be like, oh, my God, OK, kid, Jesus Christ. But I think that the even if I did let them get into the industry, it would have to be OK, but it's still behind. Like for me, I was I was upset that growing up that acting was my choice and that it was my only one that if I failed acting, I'd never have a career anywhere else because I didn't go to school. Right. Because I didn't learn anything. And because I really knew how to read, let alone like ******* multiply and do this shit. So it was like for me, I'm kind of I'm still mad about that. Of course, I want to go to school now. I want to get an amazing tutor to really take me back to the basics and reteach me all over again, things I didn't learn. And that's the thing I just wouldn't want my kid to have. I would never want you to put all your kind of eggs in one basket. Luckily, this basket worked out for me. But yeah, well, I mean, how scary is a kid like doing all these things and like even getting photographed in a ******* bikini and being like, I could lose my job for this and everything, everything, my whole identity relies on this, my mind, like everything. OK, how because you said like you rock the word sex, like I feel like you are so sex positive. You are out as pansexual. You are. How do you feel you've come into like reclaiming that? Because what we're talking about with your childhood and like you're being a teenager and whatever, like where was the point where you were like, OK, **** this. I'm going to be myself. And how am I going to go about this? From 18 to I think 20 was me just being like actually figuring out who that self was that I was going to be trying to throw everything else away and start new. And so I think probably like by the time I was 20, I was like, oh, OK, this is definitely more so who you are as a person. But that like it's like ******* taste buds changing every seven years, like everything's we always change and all the time people put way too much pressure on us to be know who you are. And if you say something, stick to it. Yeah. Like, yeah, well, I said that five years ago, bro. And I have no idea how I feel now. And I'm going to have no idea how I feel in another five. Like, well, especially when you're younger, too, like you're trying on different things. And like if you're in a public space, I mean, I've talked about this with a couple of different guests who like got famous really young. And like you say things and you need to be able to evolve like as a person, period. And if the world doesn't give you that opportunity, it can make you feel awful about yourself. But it's important that we evolve like we get new information and we change our opinions and we change who we are. And that's like a beautiful thing that should be celebrated. It's like think about how many times you change your style. Yeah. For how many decades? Like, you know, you could go from wearing like punk rock, sexy to like, you know, Chanel collared up like in 10 years. You don't know. Yeah. You don't know. Yeah. It's going to be your whole style for the next six years. That's just like your life, like your life. Just I think we just put so much pressure on knowing the answers. Know how you feel. And it's like, I don't really know how I feel about a lot of things. I'm still kind of like, well, I don't know. Could go either way. Yeah. It must have felt really good to turn 18 and be like, I can be whoever the **** I want now. But it also must have been scary. It did. I remember I was in Starbucks and I was kissing my boyfriend at the time and somebody got a photo of me in Starbucks, a fan, and they take a photo of me kissing him. And I turn, I hear the click and I turn and I'm immediately like, you need to delete that. And I like take their phone and I go and I delete it. And I go into their recently deleted. And I'm like, you can have it. You can have it. And I remember just laughing, just hysterically laughing. I was like, you can totally have it. And I just did not give a ****. And I was so happy, like to think that even at 18, I still there, there shouldn't have ever been a photo of me kissing a boy on the Internet. Like at 18, like what? But you were so used to protecting your image and like being this one kind of person publicly and trying to control it. And then you got to not do that. And I was like, yeah, if I can get another pic, let me stick my tongue down his throat while you're at it. Was there a part of you that was scared, too, or no? Did it feel just freeing or were you like, holy shit, what am I doing? Yeah, I think it was pretty scary. Yeah, I think like definitely being on your own and not being being completely free from previous influence and really being like, OK, I'm going to start fresh. Like, who am I really that I kind of for the first time ever, ever? That was that was definitely scary. And am I going to lose my life being like who I am as well? Like there were certain things that to me, I thought were just like ******* ridiculous that shouldn't have ever been an issue for me in my career. Like when I had cystic acne and everyone was like, she must do heroin or crack because her acne is so bad. And I feel like like that was really it started this narrative that like Bella Thorne is dirty. She's really dirty. I still see comments about this, about me being dirty. And I'm like, it is so it's like it makes me feel incredulous. Like I'm just like it's still really, really irks me that I'm like, wow. All because I had something that I cried about in the mirror every day that I tried everything I could to get away from it. And you thought that I was on drugs for it? Like those kind of times, especially during them, not having a team, not having anyone to influence me, really being on my own and trying to figure that out and and getting like serious heat for it. That some of those things really did make me like actually mad. I mean, as they should, it's so unfair. It's wildly unfair. I'm mad for you. And I feel like, yeah, I mean, as everyone should be. It's crazy. You were a different generation, obviously, than the like Lindsay Lohan, whatever. But like it's the same shit that like Britney and Lindsay and whatever. It's still like that runoff from the early 2000s of people being like these famous young women need to be a certain way. But also, God, we love to we love to put this on them. We love to call them sluts. We love to, you know, catch them when they're fucked up. Like we want to watch their downfall from this like perfect, like sexualized little bunny rabbit who's prepubescent, basically. Yeah. And it's crazy. Do you think it's better now? Like, do you think that people like would the same thing happen to a young actress now who's a teenager or what do you think? Has the world changed? You know what, Millie Bobby Brown would be a pretty good career to look out to see if that is still happening. Yeah, because she was very little. And in the time growing up now where people are just starting to understand that you can't call her a sexy little girl anymore. Yeah, that's ******* weird because she's a little girl. So I feel like during her period of time growing up, finally, people started to actually change their mindset. So it'd be really interesting to like understand from her if she has really felt overly sexualized because she's definitely like 18, 19 now. Yeah. And, you know, she's grown into herself. Like she has a boyfriend. So it's definitely like, is she getting that? Because I'm definitely curious if people because I would like to think that it is better. You know, that directors can't say that anymore about a 10 year old little girl or like casting directors are still going to say that about a 16 year old girl modeling. I feel like modeling is still one of the places where it really it hasn't gotten better necessarily. So it's like. But yeah, I think in general world, you know, you can't say that anymore. Yeah. Like, you know, it's ******* weird. What about like being taken seriously as an actress? Like that's such a thing. I've heard that so many times. And I feel like you are just like, **** that. You are an incredible actress. You're such a good actress. It's really impressive. I've seen you in so many things. I'm like, damn, that bitch has honed her craft. I mean, truly. But there is and you have a relationship with like Jessica Chastain. And like, I feel I'm so curious. Like, how do you balance that whole thing of like this is what an actress does versus like this is what Bella wants to do? It's a good question. I'm still kind of figuring out that balance. I don't think it's balanced yet. Yeah, I'm still kind of trying to figure out what. I mean, I think the serious actress like needing to be a certain way is bullshit, to be clear. Yeah. But I think it's also the reality of the world. And I just like wondering how you deal with it. Yeah. There was a time not that long ago where I had just gone into a lot of shit on the media and I wanted to post these screenshots of the truth. And the whole team was just like, serious actresses don't post screenshots, quote unquote. And I was like, but people think I'm lying. They think that this is true right now. And I want to post these things so they know the truth. And it's right here. Here's the proof, literally. And they were like, nope, can't do it. Can't do it. Don't say a word because this is this will hurt you being a serious actress. And I'm like, so people could think I'm a liar, but I'll still get movies. What are you? Wait a minute. Hold on. I want people to know the ******* truth about this. Like in that. So that was like that's that's a balancing act right there. I listened to them on that one. Don't know I'm going to always listen in the future because I'm still pretty ******* mad about that. Yeah, maybe you should post the screenshots, honestly. I mean, I don't know what the situation is, but I'm like justice for Bella Thorne. What about like sexiness? Because that was something I heard a lot. Like if you're posting bikini pictures, like you're never going to get the Chanel contract or you're never going to get whatever. And you've obviously like you have an only fans. You like do what you want. You have music videos where like, which, by the way, congrats on your directing. I think it's really cool as well. How do you handle that? What's your philosophy? Um, I think, yeah, the the OF thing is also annoying, too, because I think a lot of people think that I post nudity. I'm going to say it again. There's no nudity on the platform. I don't post any nudity. I literally like don't know how many times I need to say this, but it seems to be people constantly need to be corrected with their idea of only fans. But yeah, just the idea of being sexual and too sexy and that being like I think it's different in in acting because they're like, well, most directors want to **** you and most producers want to **** you anyway. So we don't really care if you're like wearing a bikini. It doesn't really bother us. But I think that there is definitely when it comes to fashion, that that's like so much more prevalent in fashion. And I think that I've kind of I haven't had the best relationship with fashion growing up, especially and I'm just starting now to actually care more about it and learn my style and, you know, play the game a little bit more. Because before I was just like, I don't understand why this is a bad thing. I don't understand why you're it's so confusing. You want me to be really skinny, too. But then like the minute you see I'm skinny on Instagram or that I have a body or something. Now you're like not going to give me this contract because like that to me, I'm just like, OK, wait, what? It just doesn't make any sense to me. I feel like this is a theme of the episode and of your experience. A lot of the time it's like there is a game, but the rules are completely unfair and you are playing it. And you're like trying to navigate these, like somebody switching up the rules on you at any given second, literally from when you're 10 or when you're 23 or 25, whatever. And they're like, no, no, no. Be this way, but be this way. And you're like, I'm just trying to succeed here. And also now as an adult, be who I am. Right. It is. It's really like, how do you how are you supposed to play the game and be happy? Yeah. Like how how how did these two things? That's what I want to know is when these two things go together, that playing the game and getting what you want in life doesn't come at a cost of your complete, utter self-worth or happiness. That's what I'd like to know. I actually just wrote a short about this that literally talks about this exact thing. And just like from I written a line in there where I say like, you know, I keep hearing this song. It's been playing for generations and I don't know the words. And I look around and nobody else does, too. But they want me to dance. So I do. I keep dancing. And that's just to me is like is how I genuinely feel like I keep doing these things because because people keep telling me this is what we need to do in society tells you as a woman, this is what it is. And this is how you, you know, get by in life. And this is how you're going to like walk on the street and actually get back home safely. And this is how you're going to have a career. And this is how you're going to have a family. And this and that. And there's all these things of this is how you're going to do it. So do it this way. And we all just keep dancing. And it's like, how many of us does it take to stop dancing for everyone else to like actually get the ******* picture? Yeah. Yeah. And you've kind of stopped dancing in your ways. I mean, yeah, which is great. Like nobody knows the ******* words. In other ways, I'll keep dancing. So it's like, right. You're still playing a certain amount of game because like it's your livelihood and it's your identity and it's yeah. And you've also been given a stack of things that most people would like die for, right, quote unquote. And so you're trying to like pivot off of that, but also be happy. So how what makes you happy and like how do you make yourself happy? I know we talked about like not looking at your phone and in the mornings, but literally, I mean, with your career, but small and big ways like what? How do you do that? Last year, around the very end of the year, because every year around the end of the year, I make a next year list of things and things I want to see in my life. And last year was the first year that I decided to make a what would make you happier list. I'll tell you, I only got five pages in. That's pretty good. And I'm looking at it this year. I pull up that notebook to to do to add and I see that I've only gotten five pages in and I'm like, damn it, Bella. You should have written some more things on this list last year. Your happiness is so much lower on the scale of importance to you as opposed to your career and other things you want in life. Like that's probably the biggest issue you have, man. Like happiness should be way over those other things. And so I'm looking at it and I see like a few things that I did this year that made me happier. And I'm like, well, at least you did some of those things. And then other things that didn't like, you know, I just didn't get on a better routine of walking my dogs. Oh, my God, you sound so hard on yourself. I'm just going to interrupt you right now. Like you're literally like being yourself. Like I didn't walk the dog. It's like, well, that's not going to make you happy either being hard on yourself. So don't be hard on yourself. Yeah, but if you never are hard on yourself, and especially if we're hard with everything else in life, like career and other things, then why aren't we hard on ourself about our health and our happiness? Yes, because I've never ******* last year, I got into drinking a full jug of water every day, like a gallon. I haven't done that yet. It's a good one. I really like to make you happier, especially when you beat your own ass into doing it. Well, you feel better, right? Yeah, you feel better. Walking the dogs was one that I know that outside and seeing the dogs happy, that makes me happy. But it's every day that I wake up that I'm like, oh, I'm doing a million things. So I don't have like this 40 minutes that I want to walk the dogs. And so that's like one thing that I do really want. I got them a dog walker instead. See, Bella, that's an issue. You can't just do it. It's hard, actually. I have a very big dog. He's 90 pounds and I live in New York. Yeah, your dog is huge. He's ******* very cute. He's very cute. I love him so much. And I don't have a dog walker because I like the routine of like getting out in the city and being like, just, you know, there's paps and whatever. And there's like the feeling, sometimes I don't want to go outside, honestly. And it helps me not having a baby. I like also like go out with him and whatever. And it's like a nice ritual. And it also makes me feel really connected to New York City. And like, because people like stop and talk to him, to Colombo and like, I feel like I have really good interactions with people. But I don't have enough damn time anymore. I'm so stressed. And my poor dog like needs more walks. So it's about the balance, right? It's like delegating and whatever. And you have a lot of shit going on. What else do you think makes you happy? Oh my God. Time with my friends. Like really like my close friends. Last night, actually, my girlfriend and I, we were like, I was going to stay in. I was going to prep for today. I have a big day today. And we were like, should we go out to dinner? So I got a sitter. And me and my best friend drink martinis and split a steak free at this amazing restaurant called Raul's. You should go there. It's like Andy Warhol's favorite restaurant. It's really cute. And like, there's a tarot card reader upstairs. So you can like go up there after you have your steak. And we just had a great conversation. And I felt 20 times more rested than I would have if I had just gone to sleep last night. You know, it brought me so much joy to just talk to her. That's probably like the most important part about life. I think about my deathbed all the time. And I'm like, man, what are you going to be thinking about on your deathbed, girl? It better be some good shit. And it's all those moments. It's going to be the birthdays that I didn't miss. And, you know, the holidays with my family that I made sure I was at. And those funny, random late night conversations where you learn more about yourself and more about other people. And that genuinely makes you feel fulfilled. Not like the extra whatever, extra like on ******* Instagram or the extra campaign or these things that you think in that moment, man, it's going to make me so happy. But you think about your deathbed, that's definitely not what you're thinking about was not like what you did with your career. It's like how many people you influenced in your life and how happy you were those times, actually. I mean, success is so subjective, like ultimately. So you just you can reach a certain level and it's still not going to feel like enough, you know? And I found in my life, like, you know, doing what actually makes me feel good and I enjoy and I'm fulfilled by is that's success. Like that is it. It's not about the numbers or the, you know, dream thing that you, you know, think you want. It's about like, what are you doing day to day? And does it make you feel good? I feel like you have, you are like, so you've written, you wrote this really great book that was kind of, it's a young adult novel, right? But it's really about your experience with grief. The life of a wannabe muggle. I would say grief is probably a really big one. So you said you wrote a short. Are you going to write more? Oh, yeah. I'm writing a movie right now. Cool. I have a series written that I'm really excited about it that I'm just pitching right now. Yes, I'm in the middle. I'm writing a movie and I am actually writing another short that's based on somebody's true story that I had worked with that gave me rights to tell their story, which I feel so honored and just so lucky to be able to bring their very harsh, unfortunate, true story to life on the screen and to do it some justice. And yeah, the short right now, the other short, Paint Her Red, I'm really excited about because I feel like that's tonally one of the things that I talk about the most in my writing is like all over that short. And what is it? What do you mostly write about? All of my themes are like family trauma. I think that that's a big one. That's probably like in every one of the ones. I mean, it makes sense. You've had a pretty specific experience. And women, the things that we deal with in life that that always makes its way in. Being gay. Yeah, I think that those three things are pretty much, they always find themselves, even when I'm not trying to write it at all and I'm trying to do something different, it's just still just like works its way in there. Yeah, I guess you write what you know. I was gonna say, we talked a lot about like how you present in the world with your sexuality, but like, what about your personal journey and like coming out? What was that like for you? And like, how does it feel now to be somebody who's out? At first it felt great. And then it was a little shitty for a while because I did it at a time where it wasn't cool yet. And people didn't like it yet. So I got some heat for that, which was OK. And I lost a lot of jobs like as far as acting wise. That was one thing that I had support from my fans that made me feel really good. I had support from some media places as well that were like, oh, good for her. Being true to herself. I think the most shocking one, I think was the acting one because I've just, that to me, I didn't realize that it was a frowned upon thing in acting, that that wasn't going to be nice for them. Why would you say it is frowned upon? I mean, I have my thoughts, but I'm just curious. I honestly, I don't know. I think because like, if you think about picture perfect and what does picture perfect mean? It's like the epitome of what people think a picture perfect should look like. And what is the epitome? The very, very down deepest of that is like men meets woman meets very clean woman meets. Oh, glamorous girl meets. Oh, does right by her husband and does right by society and just keeps like minimizing, minimizing, minimizing, minimizing. And I feel like that's always been, you know, the picture perfect has been like the man that does the work and the woman that cleans the house. And that that has been like regurgitated in film throughout all of history. You either have the psycho woman who's going to kill the main character or you have the sweet woman that gets the man in the end. Or you have the character actress who no man or woman will ever look at her or ****. And that is just it. Like you, you don't have a real woman in any of these circumstances. And I think that that has like bred itself within the idea that being gay is bad and all of the other things that they think are bad, too. And now it's now it's become, I think, a lot better. And I think nobody gives a **** anymore that that I'm pans in the industry. It doesn't hurt me now, but it hurt me then. Yeah. Oh, that's so brutal. I also think it goes back to some of the other things we were talking about earlier. Like there are so many straight men in Hollywood. And if they think you're not interested in having sex with them exclusively, they don't want to hire you. They will not hire you. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you have to play into the fantasy, play into the fantasy. You're playing into the game. I think that's another hard one when it comes when it when it comes down to the game. Yeah. How much are we going to play? How much of yourself is worth willing? Like that? That's all what the short that my next short is about. It just all talks about that. I can't wait to see it. I'm going to send it to you. Yeah, please. So you can. And then you have, obviously, Thorne, your new jewelry brand. Yes. So wait, you came in bearing a gift, which is so nice. Like this is this episode is going to come up around the holiday season. Can I open it? Yeah. Look at this packaging. This is gorgeous. I wish I could. There's beautiful, large pearls. There's like this red velvet situation. And oh, my God, these are beautiful. Some what are these called? Daggers. Kind of. Yeah, I love. Oh, my God. Wait, there's so much beautiful. Wait, the lighter. So this also comes with the chain that is wrapped around my neck. Currently, the one with the gator. All of our emblem stuff is the gator because I'm from Florida. OK. And so that's also that's for your son. I was just going to say, is this for my baby? Wait, this is so badass. It's all, you know, real pearls. I'm just describing it for the audio. This is barbed wire with pearls and it's a little bracelet and he's going to be so hard. Holy shit. I can't wait for him to hit the streets with that. Dude, it's so funny. I mean, anything you ever want, we can make it for you. Yeah, we do a lot of custom pieces. This is gorgeous with the little gator. This is so nice of you. Honestly, thank you so much. And congrats, congrats on Thorn. Thank you. That's really exciting. This is your first line. That's my first jewelry. OK, yeah, line. You're like, I've been I've been in business, baby. I've got mogul tattooed on the back of my my fingers. Oh, sick. Wow. That's what I would like to be. And then you have a bunch of movies coming. OK, what's your weed company? I know about your weed company, but what's the name? Forbidden Flowers. OK, sick. And then the movies. And then so many movies, right? I feel like you're working all the time. Oh, yeah, I'm I'm literally always working. I mean, you have been since, again, fresh out the womb. That's why my happiness list is so short. It's only the five things. But this year I'm adding a lot more things and I intend to do them this year. Good. I hope I want that for you. And I feel like I'm really happy for you. It's really I like I'm sorry that I've had to like be so up on your journey because it's none of my business and the world should just leave you alone and let you have that experience. But it's also really beautiful to watch you find yourself and like express yourself and figure out what works for you. And I think it's really brave because it's not easy to do that when you have so many people conditioning you and telling you what's right and what's wrong. So good for you. And yeah, take very good care of yourself. That's important. Number one thing. So thank you for coming on this podcast. Thank you. You get to, you know, so many women and different people get to just like hear your voice and hear good conversations that actually like we never had when we were younger. Never had two women talking about any of this shit to listen to, you know, and that's really going to change. That's when you said the thing about thank you for saying that. And also when you said about having a daughter, but also just, you know, when you came in or when I was thinking about doing this, I was like, man, there's so many things I've thought about around Bella and her identity. And I've never gotten to have this chance to talk to her. And it's like, this is what I would have wanted to talk to you about if we had like gone for drinks. So thank you for being willing to come on and have this conversation all miked up. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for having me.