"My Brother Barely Survived": Inside China’s Brainwashing Camps

My brother went to do the exercises in the park, just like he always did with hundreds of other people. But on his way home, he was taken to the police station and interrogated there all day. My brother decided to go to the appeals bureau in Beijing to make appeals for Falun Gong. But just for going there, he was detained for a whole month. The second time, when the police came and stormed their apartment in Beijing, they took my mother and my brother away. He was tortured there constantly for 18 months. He was not allowed to sleep for 15 straight days. As soon as he fell asleep, they would beat him up and kick him and step on him and hit him. And he was injured all over. And in that condition, they bound his legs together. And then they bound his neck to his legs with his arms tied up behind his back. They threw him under a very low bed. And then they had people step on the bed or sit on the bed to press it down even further on him. One of the best indicators that something is anti-communist is when you have real communists attacking that thing. Case in point, on a previous episode, we discussed the Shen Yun Performing Arts Group. And more specifically, we discussed how the Chinese Communist Party is now literally sending over agents to America in order to try and destroy Shen Yun. In fact, two Chinese spies were recently arrested and sentenced to prison for doing just that. And so in order to explore why that is, as well as what they're doing specifically that's making them such a thorn in the Chinese Communist Party side, I sat down with Ms. Chen Ying. She's a vice president over at Shen Yun as well as a conductor in the Shen Yun Orchestra. All right, Ying, thank you so much for joining us. Nice to be here. So before we dive into sort of giving the audience a picture of what Shen Yun is and how it came to be this giant sort of behemoth on the world stage, I wanted to give people a glimpse of who you are as a person. So why don't we rewind the clock and start at the very beginning? I was born in Beijing into a family that's deeply rooted in music. Both my parents were members of the Central Philharmonic Orchestra, the most prestigious orchestra in China at the time. And my father was actually manager of the orchestra for a number of years. And my mother was one of the most renowned flutists in the country. So I grew up, you know, surrounded by music and started my own studies on the piano at first in the age of four. So what was it about music that drew, well, even your parents, like both of your parents are these like high level musicians. What was it about music that drew them to that field? Both of my parents had some artistic background, although at that time in China, there weren't any artistic schools for them to attend to, but started, I think in their middle school years, that's where they met in a conservatory. And they were, yeah, they accomplished a lot. And so they were both hired by the Central Philharmonic and served there for 30 some years. And what about you? I mean, obviously your parents are these musicians. So it's almost like you can say destined for you to become a musician, but you could have also rebelled too. So, I mean, like, what was it about music? Was there like a moment where you're like, oh, I really love it. What about it drew you to music? When I was a child, a little kid, I wasn't drawn to it naturally actually, but because I was surrounded by music, everything just seemed very natural to me to pick up the piano and then the flute. But at the time I really, I'd rather be playing with the other kids outside. I didn't appreciate it as much until later on. I really started to appreciate the world of music. It kind of takes you into a different world, you know, and you can, it's a universal language and you can do it with things that are not necessarily practical, but it just take, it can take people to beautiful places through their imagination. So when you were still in China and during your childhood, that was during the Cultural Revolution or afterwards? I was born right in the middle of the Cultural Revolution, which started in 1966. What was the situation in China like there? Do you have any like memories of either the Cultural Revolution or like the aftermath of it? Like how did it affect society? Well, the only thing I remember was that I was without a father for a few years. My father was actually persecuted during that time. He didn't do anything wrong, but there was a political campaign and they, because he had a leadership position with the Central Philharmonic, so they blamed him and said that he attended certain meetings and that maybe, you know, involved with subversion of the government, which was totally a lie. So my father was in the labor camp sort of place, although he was just planting some fruit trees, like apple trees and pear trees. I remember visiting him, you know, once or twice, but for the most part of a couple of years, he wasn't in our home. Well, for a couple of years, he was in- I think so, yeah. I just remember being raised mostly by my mother and grandmother. Wow. And so basically he was like, when you say he's the leader, so he's like a bourgeois element, right? Then the communists were knocking down all the, basically the elite of society and he was a part of that. Yeah, I think that in China, they had one political campaign after another. Basically, every time they target a group of people and just instill this fear in people's mind that you better not go against the government. If you do, you know, this is what happens. And even if you don't, if you're suspected of doing something near that, you could face harsh consequences. Okay, so let's fast forward a little bit into your life. So how was it that you and your family began to practice Falun Dafa? I think it was in 1994 when my brother, my younger brother, was introduced to Falun Dafa. He was a college student in Beijing at the time. And immediately after he started to practice, he felt tremendous physical sensation right away. And it was really amazing to him. And also for, during those years, he was looking, searching for the meaning of life. And he read other Buddhist scriptures and stuff. But when he read the Falun Gong teachings, he was like, wow, this is it. You know, this really enables us to elevate ourselves, you know, from the inside in day-to-day, you know, situations. So, plus the exercises, you know, make him feel so good. So he encouraged my parents to also try it. And I remember what was really amazing for our family was that my father was a long-time smoker for 30-some years. And we tried everything to get him to stop and to no avail. But when he watched our teacher Master Li's video lecture, I think it was on the seventh day when a teacher talks about quitting smoking and said that it's not good for you, but if you want to quit it, you will be able to do it with ease. That's exactly what happened to my father. It was after he watched that lecture, he goes home. He never had an urge to smoke cigarette anymore. And when somebody else offers him a cigarette, he would try it and then, ooh, it doesn't taste right. And he didn't want it anymore. It was simply miraculous. And that's just one of the things that it's quite common for among other Palindawa practitioners as well. And for my family, it's just one of the many things, like for both of my parents, their physical ailments of all sorts just went away. Actually, for my mother, she was more drawn to the core principles of tenets of Palindawa, truthfulness, compassion, resilience, zhen shan ren. So it's about being true and being genuine. Shan is about being good and being compassionate, being kind, and ren is a very rich word. And it's translated sometimes as resilience or tolerance or forbearance, but it's also about having patience, I guess, exercise self-restraint when it comes to unhealthy thoughts and bad tendencies, sorts like that. So I think for people who practice Falun Gong, we just try to cultivate these virtues in our day-to-day situations. And it's been just a really inspiring experience for at least my family, for all of us. I think I draw so much strength from just doing that. So your brother was the first one to pick it up in 94. He introduced it to your parents as well as you. Like, what drew you to it? Right, at the time they were in Beijing, my parents and my brother, I was already in the United States. So they mailed the videotapes and the books that were available, mailed those to me. So I started to practice it just by reading the books and meeting with people who were in the States that were already practicing and learning the exercises. So it's just everything has, it actually has also changed my perspective on traditional Chinese culture. Because before that, I had no idea of what it was. Because of the Cultural Revolution and actually because the Communist Party, after it took over China's governance in 1949, they systematically eradicated traditional culture. Because our culture has always been a very spiritual heritage, incorporating Buddhism, Daoism, Confucianism, and those were considered the pillars of Chinese civilization for thousands of years. So when the Communist Party tried to introduce Marxism into China, they had to get rid of all of those long established values and beliefs in China. So throughout the last few decades, this is systematically eradicated from the education system, actually, because I went to elementary school there, I went to middle school, high school there. We just had no exposure to that. And I didn't really know what it was, what it entails and not to let alone the wisdom and the depth, the profundity of it. Until I started to practice Falun Gong, which is really a spiritual practice, a Buddhist-based spiritual practice. And it's became so popular in China because of its health benefits and the spiritual teachings that in 1999, the government, even though before that they were, they always kept an eye on it, but by 1999, they realized it became way too popular. It was estimated that about 70 to 100 million people were practicing it, which is outnumbered the Communist Party. So they started, launched a brutal campaign of violence and killing and came up with all sorts of false narratives to justify that. So by 1999, you were already in the US. Yes. So how did you first learn about the persecution? From day one, actually, because I was in the United States, but on July 20th, 1999, I actually learned some news on the internet here in the States that suddenly China started to arrest people who practice Falun Gong nationwide. So I immediately called my mother and she said, oh, that must be why your brother isn't home, hasn't come home all day. And he didn't show up at work. We had no idea where he, we have no idea where he is. So it turned out that my brother went to do the exercises in the park, just like he always did with hundreds and other people at that practice site. They did the exercise in the morning, but on his way home, he was taken to the police station and interrogated there all day. Basically, he was one of the volunteer assistants at the practice site, which basically just, what he did was just showing newcomers the exercises and tell them about the basics and where to get the books. It was pretty much as simple as that, but they considered him some sort of a leader. So he was among the other assistants that were taken into the police station that day. They did allow him to come home, but during the days following that, he was frequently just taken by the police for no reason. And again, asking him questions, not preventing him from going to work or returning home, and even forced him to attend some brainwashing sessions that, of course, they smear Falun Gong. It was maybe the end of year 2000, I forgot the month, but my brother decided to go to the Appeals Bureau in Beijing to make appeals for Falun Gong. You probably understand that in China, all of the media is controlled by the government, so you only hear one voice. When they want to attack any group of people, in this case, Falun Gong, that's all you hear about, all the terrible things that Falun Gong haven't even done. So the Appeals Bureau is supposed to be the only channel, legal channel, place for citizens to go voice their concerns. So my brother went there, but just for going there, he was detained in a detention center, Chaoyang Detention Center for a whole month. While he was en route to go appeal. He didn't even make it into the building, I think, yeah. But as he got close to the building, there were people already stopping him and asking him, what are you here for? He said, I want to make appeals. What is it for? Falun Gong, oh, come this way. And they took him away. The same thing actually happened to my parents. They went, a couple months later, knowing full well that could be their fate, but they felt that they're the first-hand beneficiaries of Falun Gong. They just wanted to go to tell the government, share with them their own experience and tell them that we have no political agenda. We'll just try to follow the teachings, live a virtuous life and improve our health. There's a misunderstanding here. So they just wanted to voice that. But again, in their case, before they even got to the building, two blocks away, they were put into a minivan and kept in a detention center separately, each for 30 days. Oh, what about your brother? How long was he kept? His first time was 30 days. And then the second time was after my parents were released and went home. A few months later, I forgot, maybe it was June 2000 or something like that. Suddenly, in the middle of the night, a group of police stormed their apartment in Beijing and searched the whole place for Falun Gong materials and took my mother and brother away. Their only crime, of course, they had no search warrant or any just cause. But the whole reason that they did that was because they heard that they were still practicing at home. So by practicing, you mean they were like meditating at home and reading the books. Yeah, that's it. And they came and raided their home to see if that's true. Exactly. And when they found that it is true, they took them away. It is true. They did continue to practice because no matter what the government said, this is what we've learned. We know Falun Gong really is. We know that it really teaches people to do good things, to improve ourselves. And all of the self-immolation, all sorts of crazy tales that they fabricated, they're just total lies. So the whole experience just made us see clearer and clearer the nature of the Communist Party in China. You know, I can really imagine, after you tell me this story, that especially your mom and dad, just going, for them to go to the appeals office, having been through the Cultural Revolution, that must have been like, I mean, they must have, they already kind of understand the nature of the CCP. So for them to do that, that's pretty courageous, to be honest. It is. It has taken a lot of courage to do all of this. And also, my parents were very well-respected musicians in China, so they enjoyed a lot of prestige, and they had a comfortable life. But they wanted to lead an honest life, too. When the government is saying all these terrible things against our cherished faith, they feel that they should speak up. This, I guess, for your brother, will be the third time that he was arrested. How long was that arrest for? Actually, the second time, when the police came and stormed their apartment in Beijing, they took my mother and my brother away. My mother was detained for one month after that, again. My brother was first detained in the Diao Qian Chu, I forget what it's called in Chinese, but it's a terrible place. And then after that, they sent him to a labor camp, the Tuan He Labor Camp, and he was tortured there constantly for 18 months. And yeah, that was a very excruciating time for our family, knowing that he didn't do anything wrong. And he probably could have gotten out just by saying, okay, forget it, I won't practice anymore. But actually, it's not that simple. But let me describe some of the things that he went through. So as soon as you get there, they use electric batons to make everybody drop your head. That's the first thing. So you're not supposed to hold up any dignity in that environment of horror. And he was constantly abused physically. And one time he was not allowed to sleep for 15 straight days. He was so sleepy after a few days that even when he was walking, he could fall asleep. But as soon as he fell asleep, they would beat him up to wake him up again. And his whole body became, his mind became disoriented and the body stopped functioning after some days. It was just, they want to push you to this breaking point so that they can force you to give up your faith. And also at the labor camp, they frequently use multiple batons on Falun Gong practitioners. Usually for other prisoners, the other inmate, they just use one baton, wave it in front of them and say, if you don't do what I ask you to do, you want to try this? And those people would beg for mercy. And so fine, whatever you want me to say. But on Falun Gong practitioners, they know that they came, they were there because of their faith. So one baton, usually electric baton would not do the work. So they use multiple ones. And my brother experienced it and witnessed it on other practitioners as well. And at times they use up to 13 electric batons at the same time on the person. So it's just the whole body is being burned and shocked. Yeah, and another time, my brother was beaten by several people. Basically the guards ordered other inmates, several inmates to beat up my brother. They assaulted him and they threw him onto the floor and kicked him in his face. His face was even left disfigured afterwards and kicked him and stepped on him and hit him. And he was injured all over. And in that condition, they bound his legs together. And then they bound his neck to his legs with his arms also bounded, tied up behind his back. They taped up his mouth so that he couldn't make any noises or ask for help. So his entire person was folded like that. And he said he was using the last strength that he had to try to gasp for a tiny bit of air in order to stay alive. And then in that circumstance, they threw him under a very low bed, maybe this high. And so it was so low that his back was pressed against the top. And then they had people step on the bed or sit on the bed to press it down even further on him. So it was extremely painful. And he felt at the time that his back had broken. Thankfully it did not, but it did not break. But afterwards, after that, he was not able to walk for at least two weeks. And his back, he couldn't use any strength on his back for a long time. There was another Falun Gong practitioner who went through exactly the same torture. His name is Lu Changjun, last name Lu. He became permanently paralyzed after that and he could never walk again. But this is, but afterwards the guards at the labor camp just filed a report, said, oh, he fell and injured himself. And this is just commonplace. They don't take, they don't have to be held accountable for all these horrible things that they're doing. And they're so sadistic. You have to be so sadistic to do something like that. Right. Yeah, just to force your brother to renounce his belief. But your brother is a strong guy. I mean, to experience all that for a period of 18 months and not renounce his belief, when it sounds like if he were just to say those words, like they would actually let him go. I don't know if they would necessarily let him go immediately because I heard in some cases, if a Falun Gong practitioner gave up and signed something and say, okay, I'll stop practicing. They actually will ask them to help convert other Falun Gong practitioners. That would not be the end of it. And sometimes ask them to help beat up other Falun Gong practitioners and do all sorts of evil. And actually, I think even the policemen in that whole system are victims. And some of them don't want to do this. But if you want to have any future in your career, if you want to get promoted, you have to do it. And also, if you fail to convert a Falun Gong practitioner at the Chuanhe labor camp, my brother said, they will find 1,500 yuan, the Chinese currency, if you fail. But if you successfully convert a Falun Gong practitioner, you get an award for 1,000 yuan. So this is all built into that terrible system. And so I think that the people in that system are pretty vulnerable and they're victims themselves. So as this was happening to your brother, and you said this is around the year 2000, at the end of 2000, do you actually know what's happening to him? Because you're in America. Is news about his condition from the labor camp reaching you or you just know he's somewhere and you don't know what's happening at all? We didn't know much, actually. Initially, my parents were able to visit him once a month. And sometimes, suddenly they'll say, oh, you can't visit him this month, without reason given. And that's when you fear what might be happening to him. The last time they saw him in that labor camp, he lost so much weight. He was 29 years old, but he became just skinny to the bones and his hair turned all gray. Looked like a weak, old man. But because of what's happening in China and what could still happen to my parents, I invited them to come to the United States to stay with me. So they reluctantly left Beijing to join me in the States because they couldn't do much for my brother anyway when he was in the labor camp. So after my parents came to the States, we started to join forces with other people who practice Falun Gong and know about the atrocities happening to help raise awareness of what's happening in China. Again, it takes courage because we were speaking up about his case to different media. And I remember there were a friend who said to my mom, aren't you worried that your son is still in their hands? By doing this, you could jeopardize his life. And I remember my mother said that I'm his mother. If I don't do this, if I don't let the world know what's going on, who is going to help them? Who is going to give them the voice that they need? So I think that's something we've been working on for all these years, for the last 25 years that the Falun Gong has been persecuted. My brother thankfully survived the tortures and eventually with the help of other people, he managed to come to the States along with his wife. But there are many of his friends and people that we know who have been tortured and some killed through the torture. And there are also people who are still being persecuted in this ongoing persecution in China. So since then, we haven't stopped trying to raise awareness about that. Well, it's a real miracle that your whole family was able to get reunited in America. That's just wonderful. So now that you're here, you have your family here, you're raising awareness, you said you're talking to media. I know there was a lot of demonstrations in Manhattan that were happening around that time, like 02, 03. But you and your family and a group of other practitioners decided to start a dance company to help spread awareness about what's happening. Can you sort of talk about the process of doing that as well as what was the thinking behind starting of all things a dance company? Sure. I think it's, again, the persecution just made us see very clearly the nature of the Communist Party in China and how it has done away with our spiritual heritage for the last several decades. And our true culture, authentic culture has been lost. So one of our initiative was to revive that and share it with the world. And where can you do it? Only in this country, I think, which it is powerful enough to not, I think in the US, we really have the freedom and the liberty to do this without worry of the CCP. And because arts in China have been heavily censored for under that regime, and also all the spiritual wealth of our roots, of our culture have been buried by communism. So I really think part of our initiative is to revive that culture and show the beauty of it with the world. And at the same time to raise awareness of the persecution happening in China and give voices to those who don't have one. I think that was the initiative. And it was very difficult in the beginning. We didn't have much resources. We pretty much had nothing. And in fact, I was among many people who were initially part of it to join, to actually give up our successful careers or high paying jobs to be a volunteer with Shen Yun to start building it. We started just on weekends and at nights, and then gradually, we started to do it full time and started to build up this company. And at the same time, we had to resist the attacks from the CCP. The Chinese Communist Party, they have never ceased to try to attack us because what we're doing to show the world the human rights atrocities that's still happening in China, put it on stage. And today we have eight companies performing for over a million audience members around the world. And to show this on the world stage for everybody to see, of course, we are thrown in their thighs and they always try to attack us and use all kinds of tactics, slashing our bus tires and pressuring the theaters or the local officials with economic reprisals and not to put on the show. Theaters received emails threatening mass shootings and bombings if they refuse to cancel Shen Yun. Shen Yun has reported multiple instances where the tires of their tour buses have been slashed. Mr. Mattis, what could the United States be doing to protect this group? We have to actively be investigating those as crimes and they have to be a priority for investigative resources and not simply for local police departments, but also for federal law enforcement. And second, when we see those actions that are, they are frankly crimes by, criminal acts by a foreign government against our people on our soil, this is something that has to be prioritized with a response in the bilateral relationship with the PRC rather than a shoulder shrug or something that we can quietly say that we talked about later. Recently, there was also, I think you reported about the spies that are sentenced to be trying to collect information about Falun Gong and try to take the nonprofit status of Shen Yun away. So these are just examples of some of the tactics that they've used throughout the years. But we also have family members in China. Some of our performers have families that have been threatened and sentenced and jailed because of their association with the Shen Yun performers. But despite of that, we all feel that this is so important, that an initiative to do to really, let the world know what's happening. From where Shen Yun started to I guess where it is now, it's like you guys are performing on the biggest stages in the world. The tickets are not cheap, but from the reports I've seen, they're all sold out shows. And you're saying, hey, A, this is how China is and was destroyed prior to the CCP. B, this is what the CCP is currently doing right now. You expose the persecution of Falun Gong I think in every program. And in that sense, you are a thorn in the side of the CCP. And it's like, if you know that, then it's not surprising that they have a scheme like that to send actual agents sneak around and try to revoke your status. But it's true. I think that type of stuff is overtly bad, but I would imagine it's the family members of the Shen Yun performers who are still in China that are really the leverage that the CCP uses. Are there a lot of examples of maybe dancers or musicians who want to join Shen Yun, but they just can't because they have family in China? I think most of them will still join because they feel that Shen Yun plays such a key role in fighting the persecution and raising awareness and reviving classical arts. And they all resonate with it. I remember I was just conversing with, I'm a conductor with Shen Yun, so I was conversing with a couple of the musicians at the school, music students. And they were telling me about their family's persecution story. So it's very common. And I know quite a few people at Shen Yun dancers and production department. And they have one girl, her father is still, had to leave their home and became homeless in their own country. And Steven Wong, a dancer whose mom has been jailed so many times. She's already in her 60s and she's been jailed many times and just for her faith. So this is, unfortunately, the story of many, many people. And Shen Yun, they feel like they want to support Shen Yun because it's a key initiative that helps us spread the word and raise awareness. So no matter how difficult it has been, like I said in the beginning, no resources. We worked as volunteers. We didn't have money to pay people's salary until gradually we became a little bit more successful and start to bring in some income. Then we start to pay some modest salary, but nobody mind because we were there. We know why we're doing this. It's never about money. If it's about money, why do it through a performing arts company? It's never known to be a good way to make money. But we've been self-reliant and we never received consistent government assistance or financial sponsorship from large corporations. And we don't have any active membership program, donation program. So we've just done it the traditional way. We strive to produce the highest caliber of artistic production. And that kind of value is important to our audience members and they get to experience not just the really authentic Chinese dance that showcase the spiritual depth of China, the grandeur and the beauty. Everybody goes in there. As soon as the curtain opens, they're like, wow. You have to experience and to know what I'm talking about, of course, but why would we use it like orchestra if it's about money? We could just use recordings. No, it's about classical traditions and classical arts, bringing out the best that we can offer to our audience. And our digital background are all handmade costumes, 16 sets of them each year with all new different program every single year. I think we're probably the fastest growing performing arts company in America. And it's founded by first generation refugees, basically. And we are so proud of our hard work, the product of our hard work and how well it's embraced by the world. So we are very encouraged and we'll continue on this journey. Thank you so much. Thank you, it's a pleasure.