The 8 Most Argued-About Strength Exercises… That Actually Build Muscle | Mind Pump 2627

Strength training. It's one of the most effective ways to exercise, but not all exercises are created equal. Today, we're going to talk about the eight most controversial strength training exercises, and we're going to determine who they're for, who should do them, and who should not do them. I like this cuz there's value in these if done correctly. That's right. If applied correctly, I'm so glad you said that. Strength training is a unique form of exercise in its complexity. There is no other form of exercise that is quite as complex. In other words, there's so many different exercises that could be done uh for strength training and there's uh applications for each of them. And then there are applications that would not be suitable for each of them. So um so it's a it's a good it's a good topic. It's very good topic and some of them are just controversial where a lot of people say avoid them. Um, and often times what I hear that uh what what what's really being said is I just don't know how to use these properly or who who they're for. These are all like your common knee-jerk reaction exercises that people will hammer if they see a video or see somebody um performing these in the gym. They'll come up and be like, "You're going to hurt yourself." Yes. Yeah. I think I I learned that the hard way as a young arrogant trainer who thought he knew better. uh trying to tell people what was right or wrong or that's not as safe or a good exercise and then finding out that this person had a very specific goal that that made a lot of sense to be doing that movement. And so I always taught my trainers like don't assume that that person doesn't have a very specific goal that that movement applies to. You may think it's dangerous or silly or dumb or worthless, but that's the cool thing about, you know, strength training is there there's basically a application from damn near every movement you've ever seen in the gym. That's right. And the question now the question becomes, uh, are they using it correctly for that? And and is that the best approach for what they're trying to desire? And so many times people are doing these movements that I'm sure you're going to list. Haven't seen them. Uh but then their desired outcome doesn't align with that. I think that's where this conversation is probably to Yeah. Yeah. And the riskreward is like not worth it uh in certain instances when it's not applied correctly. That's right. All right. We'll start with the first one. Uh the behind the neck press. This one is interesting because this one went from being like a bodybuilding staple in the 80s in the 70s ' 80s and '9s to suddenly becoming uh like like leprosy like everybody's like runs away from this exercise. Totally. But I mean back in the ' 90s like this was how bodybuilders they did they almost all did behind the neck presses uh until people said oh that's dangerous don't do that. So they stopped uh doing them. Um, now the the critique is that it places the shoulder joint in this really extreme externally rotated position and it's abducted. That's true. It is true. It does require far more shoulder mobility and stability. It already has to be there. Yes. It requires more of your shoulder and all the muscles that support because the shoulder joint is pretty complex, right? You got your the humorous and then you got the scapula and they all have to kind of move together in the right way. It requires far more mobility and stability than a standard overhead press, which also requires a decent amount of mobility. So, I get the uh critique, but um that's also one of the pluses I think of it. It's like if you don't exercise this motion, you tend to lose it. And I know this because I was this like I did over I did behind the neck presses as a kid. Then I became a personal trainer. My certification said don't do it. So, I stopped doing it. Then in my 20s, I saw uh Mario Pusinowski. He was a strongman competitor. Uh and he used to be an Olympic lifter. And he would he literally had the bar sitting on his traps and would press it up. Do like a push press from behind head. Yeah. And I thought, "This is weird." Like Olympic lifters do this all the time. And I went back to trying to do them and it took me a long time to get back to being able to do it because I had lost uh the mobility. But once I did, it was like just a great exercise for shoulder development. Yeah. that external rotation, it's even more challenging these days because of all the forces against us with daily habits and uh what we do all day long. And so I understand the caution and concern uh because already our our shoulders just aren't in a good anatomical position to start. And so getting, you know, good posture first is uh obviously that's the main uh thing we need to focus on in in stabilizing the joint. But once you have stabilization and we can express um you know that external rotation have like solid stability with that uh getting strong in that position it it just it bulletproofs. Yes. Like you don't have that uh uh you know the the the opportunity for all of a sudden now where I'm getting impingements. My shoulder is like you know in that less optimal position where I'm going to get more shearing stress. The truth is every exercise that you don't have mobility and stability in is dangerous. That's right. A curl Yes. can be that way. If you lack the mobility and stability in a joint uh that that you're using to perform a movement, it's now dangerous. That's right. So, uh this idea that we eliminate exercises for that versus going, hey, this exercise can be dangerous if we don't. Therefore, we should train mobility and stability in this joint so that you can do these movements. Now, the thing that I love about this and any movement that falls in this category is that once you put the work in to have the mobility and stability, continuing just to perform that exercise keeps it. And so, that was a that was like a big aha moment for me as a trainer because I fell into this category. In fact, my national c my first national certification uh said do not teach behind the neck presses. like that was a no no that you don't tell clients that or you tell clients not to do that. And then when I realized that like that any exercise without mobility and stability could be dangerous and that we should we should train our body in a way that we have mobility and stability in all joints in all ranges that we can uh that's reasonable especially movements that you could potentially do inside the gym or anywhere else. I went, "Oh my god." And then when I did the work and to get there and realize, "Oh wow, these great movements that we tend to tell people not to do, if you can get to a place where you can do them safely and then you just make sure you incorporate them periodically in your training routine, you keep great stability and mobility in that joint. Like that's crazy." Now, I'll tell you this. Here's why bodybuilders used to love them. If you want a shoulder pump, the shoulder pump you get from behind the neck presses is insane. precisely because of the uh the criticisms the external rotated and abducted position like you are activating your lateral delts your even your rear delts holding yourself into position again this is in that this is with someone who can do this uh safely because they have the mobility the pump that this produces in the shoulders why bodybuilders used to love this exercise now Olympic lifters love it because when you're pressing a weight overhead like they do uh you want the most vertical position possible any forward moment momentum or you're done. You're dead. It's all vertical. And and they do this a lot. In fact, the way they do it back, they do an extreme version of it where it's like like it's like they're doing a they're pushing it backwards almost. Yes. 100%. Next up is the upright row. Um the criticism of course is pulling a barbell or dumbbells close to the body. It's like lots of internal rotation of the shoulders. You risk impingement. There was a study in 2003 that linked it to certain uh issues in the uh in the shoulder joint itself. Again, these studies are based on everyday people who um you know, you're going to have people doing it wrong, people having poor stability, mobility. This is another exercise that bodybuilders have loved for decades and decades and decades. I love this. This is a staple in my workouts and with my clients. I my goal, one of my goals, there's lots of goals I have with my clients with uh exercises, but one of them was to be able to do these and not have pain and feel good. And when I could do that, I knew their shoulders uh were healthy. But again, uh, bodybuilder favorite. I think this exercise was more one of the exercises that was responsible for my shoulders getting really round. I just noticed that when I did these really well, I got these really, really round looking shoulders. Well, I mean, it's it's a great way to heavy load the the lateral head, too, because you if you do traditional uh lateral raises, uh it's a long lever, and so you can only load that so much before it turns into like a like a swing or something. Yeah. Before it turns into like another muscle completely overtaking the movement. And so, you know, this is a a exercise that you can target that part of the shoulder and actually load it. And so long as you uh have the mobility and stability, it's very safe to load and get after it. So, it was a staple movement for me. It's so crazy, too, because this is again, this was another bodybuilding favorite for decades. And if you look at uh old uh bodybuilding videos from like the 70s uh and even the 80s, these giants had amazing shoulder mobility. You don't see this uh as often today, but back then like you watch Arnold do behind the neck presses and and upright rows and he had incredible shoulder mobility and he was really welldeveloped obviously was a bodybuilder but it's cuz he practiced these exercises like you take these exercises out and you build these big shoulders without practicing these kind of movements uh then they became they become dangerous because you don't have the ability to do them and maybe one of the one of the the dangers or fears on this too is the mistake of because to the point I is making that you can load them is that you don't have the proper mobility and stability and you go right to loading it really heavy on the first time because the other way to also yeah treat them with respect. Yeah. Is exactly is just like you should almost any first move to movement for the first time is uh you know start light and controlled and make sure you do own the range of motion and the ability and the stability and that and then and then eventually load it. Maybe that's why it gets maybe a bad rap is because you can first time if you've never done it, go grab a decent amount of weight, you know, and and then go do it. Start swinging the hell out of it. Yeah. The program giveaway for this episode is Maps Anabolic Advanced. If you want to win, leave a comment below this video in the first 24 hours that we drop it. Subscribe to this channel, turn on notifications, do all of those things, and if you win, we'll let you know in the comment section. We also have a sale, the shredded summer bundle of programs, and the bikini bundle of programs. They're all 50% off. If you're interested, go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and then use the code june50 for the discount. Uh, next up, this one's very controversial uh because uh because people do them wrong or for the wrong reasons. Kipping pull-up. Now, I've definitely criticized these. Yes. Because people have replaced pull-ups with kipping pull-ups. Uh but they were never meant. The real history of a kipping pull-up gymnastics is Yes. It's a transitional move. It was never meant to replace a pull-up. Like, if you want to do pull-ups to develop your lats and your biceps, there's a way you do them. Uh, if you're doing a kipping pull-up, this is a skill. It's what it is. Essentially, a skill. It's a transitional exercise. Getting yourself up and over a bar. Um, I think that they should be performed not to fatigue like any explosive movement. Like, that's a mistake. You start doing them till you fatigue, that's when you get issues. Uh, you train them explosively and it it is a skill. And if you get good at these like like like look I'll I'll tell I don't practice these but I could probably benefit from practice practicing something like this because I could see that there's there's definitely some holes with my upper body explosiveness and coordination because I don't do stuff like this. So I could see that value. Yeah. Yeah. Again it's Yeah. It it was never meant to be multiple repetitions uh back to back to back. It was to get you into a position where now we could perform a dip. Now we can perform a lot of these other like you know grueling type move. And and again too these are people that have you know spent years and years developing the kind of strength to to isometrically hold and support and and build that kind of stability around the the shoulder joint. Uh so then the general public you know kind of going in a CrossFit uh gym where we're we're promoting this. So that way too, this is like another way that we can increase the number of reps um from a competition perspective. Uh so for me that was that was sort of the disconnect was like the the value of it really is to be able to get you into a position where now we're working on um you know from a top position down. Um and not not necessarily to put all that velocity and ballistic stress like all around the shoulder joint. It's actually ridiculous. So, okay. Yeah, I I don't know what the full list is looking like and so I'm not sure if the desired outcome is for us to agree on these movements or not because this is not a movement I'm a fan of at all. Like um so yes, I can make the case of having the mobility and stability and strength to be able to do it is that's a good thing if you can and do it in a healthy way. But um unless you're a gymnast, I would never train this with one of my clients. There's no I would never take on a client and be like potential for tears and think of all the array of potential goals that you've trained. I would between the three of us pretty sure we've trained them all. Um there's not a client who fits in that category is like oh you know what we're going to make sure we include is kipping pull-ups that just unless they were a gymnast which I have trained gymnasts and absolutely that's something that they would do but everybody else uh I don't see the application most of no I I that's because most of our clients were everyday people uh but let's say you had a client who was a gymnast. Yes. No, not just a gymnast, but let's say they're really fit and they want to like explore different movements and they're like, you know, like a muscle up. Yeah. But when you teach, wouldn't you teach them some sort of an Olympic movement? Strict muscle up. That's the thing, right? But but I could see this technique being taught as a way to coordinate your body. I could see the value. I'm not saying I would use it necessarily, but I could see the value because there is a value, but it's kind of narrow, right, is what you're saying. It's a narrow value. You're limiting it to gymnast. Yeah. Because the the other ones that we've talked about so far, uh there's a much broader appeal to them. Sure. Like like going back to the upright rows for example, like great shoulder development for that. You know what I'm saying? Uh and if you were to compare the two of them, relatively safe compared to that. Um I could see this as a stepping stone. First off, not to fatigue, but as a way to get someone to be able to do the first muscle up, to learn how to get their body to swing up as kind of that first step. It's almost like what do you call that one squat where you pick the barbell up from the side and you bring it up here? It would be just doing that a bunch of times, you know, like that's a transitionary move. That's that's really high risk. So why would I repeat that a bunch of times? Makes no sense. Not to mention even your argument to get it to do a muscle up. Like muscle-ups got got popular because of the stupid Instagram. Yeah. before that like I that was never a thing. It's like again another gymnast type of like cool move. But it's like like why what you're a client doing a muscle up. What uh this is so advanced that I probably wouldn't have had a client doing it climb up over a fence. Yes. But look you run from the cops desired outcome. Well, I could see the value. I could see Hey John, let me teach you something. I could see the value. I'm going to rub a bank next week. I can see the value in a muscle up because it's coordinating, pulling, and pushing all in one movement. And there's not very many exercises that do muscle-ups. Yeah, it's really hard. They are really hard and it's a it's a upper body coordinated uh strength skill. Uh that I think is really awesome. I think it's hard and yes, it's a very narrow scope of I can't think of a single client. Maybe Doug would have been someone that we trained to try to get here because he was so consistent. Yeah. But but like my point with this is you know the thing is CrossFit really bastardized this because they turned it into its own exercise and they did it to like well the I guess the reason why I'm pushing back so much like right now I can only I can see the next two that are coming up and I already see the only one I have contention. Yeah, I was going to say this I I can see application for you get all day cuz I'm like there a lot of these other ones like I can make a case for a a lot of different clients that I train that like either we did do these movements or I would want them to work towards that. I just didn't have that. And uh I mean I don't even see anybody that would want to do that until the movement of CrossFit came out and then of course it becomes like a thing that people want to learn how to do. Uh, and even like the muscle up, the muscle up was not a thing that people wanted to do before until it got popular on uh on Instagram. Well, the original muscle-ups with rings, that's what they were. Pull yourself up to the rings to press yourself up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Next up, uh, barbell good mornings. This one's gained a little bit of popularity, but for a while there, this was like nobody touched these. I know. Great. It requires really good technique and form. You got to really maintain uh your spine in this nice strong stable position. But man, it is a great hamstring and butt exercise. Uh who's popularized this? Uh uh female fitness influencers. Uh they've made this popular because they're so interested in developing their backside. Um they have they have made this more popular. Yet this is this is a this has been a longtime bodybuilding movement. Oh, it's this was a this was powerlifting. This is in Arnold's book. Yeah. So this is not this is not new. We know this is great for this movement side. Uh yes, you can like a super brand new person uh dangerous exercise, but a great exercise to get people teaches that thoracic like you know scapular retracted thoracic stability, lumbar stability, your core strength to do that, your posture to do that and then the posterior chain. I mean, it's just And then it it takes also the uh like if you ever had somebody who um wants to develop hamstrings but then have issues with hands or wrist or something like that. So because they can't hold hold on to like a normal stiff-legged deadlift like you can load it on the back like that. So yeah. No, I I I find this to be powerlifters love this for a long time. Uh great movement and you know bodybuilders in the 40s uh would actually this was actually one of the exercises they would they would show off their strength. So you'd see these guys lift tremendous weight way back in the 1940s. One of my favorite exercises for the posterior chain. And um it didn't until recently. You didn't see these in gyms at all. In fact, if you tried doing this in a gym, when I was a trainer, stop you right there. Oh god. People come up to you. I think you're doing a bad squat. Hey, you're going to snap your back in half. That's right. All right. Next up, box jumps. Uh box jumps are controversial because uh they've been bastardized. They're awesome. They're great for what they're for. When you're when used correctly, they are awesome. Problem is nobody does. You go in the gym, if you go in the gym right now, if you're listening right now, you can look around. There's probably somebody doing box jumpers right now. Wrong. There's a good There's a 50-50 shot. If you're in the gym right now listening to this podcast, look around. There's somebody doing box jumps and 90% of them are doing Yeah. Yeah. They're doing high reps, sloppy, and you know, for time or for repetition fatigue. Yeah. The box jumps became a filler exercise. So, there's a lot of exercises that that bad trainers use as fillers when they're creating a circuit. when they're creating a circuit, they like to think of hard stuff to do. So, you go do this over here for a minute. Bees box jump. Yes. Like they just throw in these filler extra. Like another one is where you hold on to the bench and jump back and forth over it. You know, I haven't seen that a lot. They're just coming up with like like stuff to do just to get people sweaty and for some reason someone thought a box jump which is like you just took an explosive power movement which that's what that's what it's good for. High skill. Like if and the way you practice them is you jump as hard as you can. Explode. Come down. Wait. Soft landing. Soft landing. Wait. Wait until you're ready to explode. Again. Fatigue makes this exercise not effective and also makes it now something stupid. You might as well do jumping jacks if you're just going to do this to fatigue. And that's what trainers did. So you go into gyms and it was just a hard exercise for people to do. People are just eating shins and flying across the gym. Yes, but box jumps, you know, pio have been around uh for a long time. The Soviets really pioneered uh this kind of training for their sprinters and athletes. And this is a great way to teach the body to express strength and Yeah. You ever check out their training? Oh yeah, Tom Marino. Yeah. Crazy amounts of like plant football. Tom Marino. Oh wow. You should check in check out his training sometime. Related to me, you know that? Huh? Is he? Related to me? Yeah. So, his brother Paul is married to my stepbrother's uh mom. No way. Oh, wow. Small world. He's a local guy. Yeah, he's he's a local from over uh Riverbank that direction. Teacher over there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Now, now I will say this. I think box jumps uh regressed way down have some value for everyday people because here's this is a fact and I know this personally. You don't practice jumping, you lose a skill. Yeah. You suddenly lose a skill. like you'll jump off a curb or something and you're like, "Ouch, what happened? I can't I can't do this well anymore." Now, what this looks like for, you know, beginner clients is you like you'll jump in place and you'll practice something like that and then the box is super super low. You're not trying to see how high that you can jump, but rather practice the skill and not trying to do 50 reps. Yes. So, but but it's valuable for everyday people because if you stop jumping, you'll forget your body limit. I mean, I I guess you would because this is probably almost a category by itself of like all plyometrics. All of them. Like all all plyometrics can be amazing but most often done incorrectly. Totally. So I mean you throw ice skaters, you throw all these tuck jumps, you throw all kinds of like cool pio moves. Those are all filler exercises in trainer circuits. Isn't that funny? That's that's the problem is that they they they could they could have been really good move or can be really good movements, but they've been bastardized by the industry to just get people tired uh between other exercises. So, I mean, just to put it differently, when you see trainers do this where they have like 10 exercises put together with all these pio exercises, you could replace the way that they're doing it. You could replace every exercise with jumping jacks. You could have 10 jumping jack stations and they get the same benefit. That's the same result. The same result. How funny is that? Yeah. No, if if I'm doing box jump box jumps with an athlete, because that's typically who I'd be doing that with, uh, that is the only thing we're doing. Yeah. And and we are we are taking and if anything we are taking ext like powerlifting extended periods of time in break breaks and and I'm like breaking down what I saw like okay look at your hips were too low here you need to pull your arms back explode with your like I'm like I'm I'm watching every time they do one then they while they're resting I'm talking about what I saw like you you rocked forward too much on your on the balls of your feet or you were on your heels too much or you know your arms didn't come back you know like I'm critiquing the entire movement and getting them to try and each time they go back to that jump just create that power. They Yeah, they got they got higher and more explosive each time because I made minor adjustments to how they loaded the body before they exploded. Like that's how a box jump is taught. It's not taught in repetitions and definitely not taught in repetitions with something else. That's just stupid. This episode is brought to you by the world's best probiotic, Seed. Go to seed.com/mindpump. Use the code 25pump. Get 25% off. Next up is the behind the neck pull down. This is another one of those bodybuilding exercises that was a favorite. You could not find a bodybuilding article in the '9s or 80s that did not include like a bodybuilding back workout that did not include behind the neck pull downs. This is what they did. And then suddenly it became like the most unpopular back exercise ever because why? It strains the shoulders. Wrist rotator cuff damage impingement blah blah blah. I love behind the neck pull downs because it really helps maintain shoulder mobility, strengthens, reinforces that position of being like externally rotated. That's right. External rotation, pulling down, getting my scapula to rotate down and in while retracted. Like if you stop training that, it goes away. It will. It goes away. Get weak. Well, the good part this goes hand in hand with the behind the head presses. If you can do that, you'll do this. Right. So, you know, again, if you get if you gain the stability and mobility in order to do that in your shoulders, then both these movements just keep them in your routine and you'll forever keep that ability. Like, you don't have to like actively work on mobility and stability all this time. You just do those two movements periodically in your routine and you'll keep incredible. still do these probably uh you know if I if I work out my back twice in a week once for sure. So at least three days uh three times out of a month. Do I train behind the neck pull down? I mean I like to I like to warm up the lat pull down like that just light and and do just to keep that ability. The problem is I think when people like force the position Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. their head's protruding too far and um they haven't done a lot of the the work to be able to get those shoulders fully externally rotated and so it's like it looks like a curl for they're looking for they're kind of shrimping their posture to make it work. It's not for you. You don't great uh own it yet. Great priming movement for both throws. Prone cobras are a great way to prime Yeah. or wall press are great movements to prime to get you in the position to both. That reminds me, there was I remember now one of the one of the contributing factors to why this fell out of popularity in the I want to say the late 90s. There was a story of a man who was doing just obviously terrible form, too much weight, the cable snapped. He he slammed the bar down on his neck and got paralyzed. Oh. And and so everybody was like, "Don't ever do this." Literally the worst case scenario. Slam the bar on his neck. Yeah. Cuz he was yanking it and you know going forward and then the bar came down and he hit himself horrible in the neck. Now, nobody wants to do them. If that happens, that's super rare. Super rare. Uh, next up, Roman chair sit-ups. So, Roman chair sit-ups. This is where you have your hips are essentially supported. Now, most people use do hyperextensions on these. Yes. Yes. Yes. This was an This was a favorite uh bodybuilders in the 70s. Arnold loved doing these. Uh, wrestlers love doing these. So, are you are you sitting reversed then on? Okay. So, the So, the average cuz I Justin and I were talking about this when you mentioned this. It was like I always thought the Roman chair was a different machine. A chair you hold and then you bring your knees up. But it's not that. But we're wrong. Like the it's the one you're talking about. And then what most people use the Roman chair for are for hyperextension. That's right. So you go backwards on it. Ank, you know, uh you anchor your feet. Now here's why they're controversial. Because you could turn these into hip flexor blasters. Like if you're not focusing the abs, you're not extending and and and then flexing at the spine. you're just doing, you know, soaz raises essentially. And yeah, that'll hurt your back. That'll definitely hurt your back. And and a good amount of strength is required to do these. If you don't have really strong core muscles, uh then this is not a a go-to starter exercise. But if they are strong and you can do these right, man, these develop the abs like like almost nothing else. It's a great exercise. And obviously, the theory of that is just because the range of motion, your range of motion, gnarly range of motion with no support. Like you're leaning back, there's air behind you. Yeah. you know, so you can see how somebody will hurt themselves if they don't have Yeah. So far the exercise that like this would be the second least I would use. So if you were to go you would go decline bench. Yeah. There's like a lot of things I would do first and and although I could see somebody who has great uh control stability there and they really want to develop abs and like I could see I could see maybe working this way where I see nothing where I would ever do a kipping unless I was a very sport specific person. So the but I would I would c if I had to order these this would be the second least. Typically you'd have something supporting uh you know your lower back on you know just as a precursor. Well because what I'm also the the game I'm playing as you're going through these is like go through all the people you ever train and all the goals and I'm trying to think of a person that would that has ever told me a goal where I'm like oh I have a movement we're we got to do where that would would that would surface to the top. Some of these other ones they absolutely would you know would would go there. Um, this one's, you know what's funny about the Roman chair sit-ups? Uh, in the 70s, like Arnold was famous for this. They would do this, uh, for time, not for reps. So, they do Roman chair sit-ups for five minutes, and they just go, "Yeah, back." Yeah. I know. Isn't that funny? I mean, this is that's an example, too. Isn't this when Well, I guess Yeah. Yeah. You would still Isn't that what you would call what Rocky is doing off the uh off the Hey, hanging upside down. I mean, no, but I mean, that's also a great I don't know where you'd be able to do that. It's kind of like that, though. You get those boots where you hang upside down like on the Yeah, you gravity boots. Yeah, gravity boots. I've never done those. Uh, all right. The last one is by far the most controversial. In fact, if you do this in a gym, I would love uh reaction videos. I would love seeing people who can do these properly to do them and then film the reactions with a So, it's called a Jefferson curl. And what a Jefferson curl looks like for sure. Most controversial. It looks like a terrible deadlift. It looks like you're trying to hurt your back. Looks like Yeah. And essentially what you're doing is you're holding a barbell on my spine and you are you are literally deliberately flexing the spine. Literally deliberately rounding your back on the way down and coming all the way up. Now, this was a this was a wrestler staple uh for Greco Roman wrestlers, especially Soviet wrestlers. And they did this uh uh zer style. They they would stand on a block and they would Yes. They would zurt it and they'd go all the way down, all the way up. Now, why? I mean, in in Greco Roman, you're picking up picking up dead weight dudes off the floor, moving weight, and that's what you look like when you're picking them up off the floor. Now, the risk here is if you let your spine support you, if you allow the your end range of motion of your of your your your discs support you, yeah, you're gonna hurt yourself. So, there's a there's a def a high level of of stability and control that's required to be able to load this, but this is an exercise that like, you know, you have high body IQ to pull this off. For sure. Yeah. Most controversial for sure on the list, maybe at least up there for sure with kipping. Uh although what I know now and because this is not something I trained I did not train clients on this but what I understand now I could actually see myself doing this with more and not who you would think like I would take advanced age people that are but with no weight no weight that's right and just little bit just teaching them how to articulate each vertebrae because the benefits of you being able to articulate every vertebrae slowly and controlled like that and I I would just regress it to like nothing, right? Like and then eventually holding like 10 lbs and and then and then if I got that client to be able to do that with a decent amount of weight, boy, are you really protecting them. I was not familiar with the Jefferson curl until later in my career. Um, but I did exactly what you said with clients. When I had people who were advanced age and they had back pain and we get them to a point where we could do certain things, I would have them reach down with their hands and I'd have them articulate their spine all the way down until we reached a point where they're like, "That's a little iffy." And then have them roll back up and what here's what happened over time. They got lower. They were able over over months, right, they were able to go lower and lower and lower and no back pain. So bulletproof. Yeah. And then you do the opposite of the perfect push-up where you're articulated up each um sit. Yeah. Perfect situp is what I meant. Yes. That's why like perfect situp and Jefferson curl to me are are movements that I didn't use a lot in my career early on purely out of fear and what I thought was so dangerous but looking back now I go like oh I would just regress the [ __ ] out of that and actually could see a actually a wide application for a lot of people for just overall safety and protecting them. You just have it is it is highly dangerous. But when we look at the list of things that you listed off today, like I see regress this. Yes. I see more application for this than some of the other ones. So protective once you get stronger. Well, you know what they even though it's the most controversial and what they teach people which is terrible uh is oh you have back pain, don't move that way anymore. So gradually over time just completely prune it, right? Yeah. That much more susceptible. It's like oh you got knee pain, stop squatting. Oh, you got this. Stop pressing. It's like, "Oh my god, you're going to lose that mobility when I have to." That's right. And then you're totally screwed. No. That's So, it's funny cuz I did this movement with people, but we didn't load it just to be able to articulate his spine. But then later, like I said, I found I found it by watching videos of these wrestlers and they would they would hold them in, like I said, in uh in these zer positions and they would load them. But that's what you do in those in those wrestling matches. You're picking people off the ground. Oh, yeah. You're scooping them off the ground, which is a really low position. Yeah. I actually thought you were going to add um uh [ __ ] squat to the mix just because of uh people people's looking you know from outside perspective like in and the stress they would say I got to say I think we're I think we're responsible for bringing that exercise back when we started the podcast nobody knew what it was I didn't know what it was until you introduced it to me I was already over 10 years in my career and didn't know what the hell that was and then you showed it to me and uh and then I remember attempting it and then the learning curve and then getting good at it. Then I went, "Oh, wow." I fell in love with them. Yep. Yeah. So, I those are I prefer them especially to leg extension. Oh, yeah. And I see them now. I see people doing, you know, I used to so funny because I remember we were I was heat bodybuilding when you guys were all got together. I would hold the leg extension machine to balance to do. So, I'm sure people are like, "What the [ __ ] You're using the wrong." Yeah. Yeah. I totally used to do that. So, so funny. I I love those. That's a good honorable mention. That is a great honorable mention for sure. All right. I know you like that episode. If you did, check this one out. Stop doing three sets of 12 to build muscle and do this instead. You guys want to guess? Stop doing the three sets of 12 and do this instead. Uh, with that intro, my guess is you're going to tell people to change the rep range to Yeah. 5 by five or low rep range. Do you guys remember when you're going? Yeah. So, um, often times we get stuck in like a set count and a rep count or a range