Angelina Jolie & Cynthia Erivo | Actors on Actors

For Broadway, there's a danger, there's a surprise, there's a life. There were people on set who'd never seen me out of the green. Oh, how interesting. When I first sang, it was more terrifying than thrilling, but you know how good your voice. Hi. I'm so happy to be sitting with you. Me too. I've been looking forward to this. I've been, like, chomping at the bit to get started and chatting and, like, getting some time together. It's nice. Yeah. I look forward to talking to you away from cameras, too. Well, okay. I can't not talk about the joy of this film that you've made. Yeah. Because I know for musical theater, sometimes you look at it and you have a distance from it. It's perfect. Yeah. It's amazing. But you don't feel the truth as much. You don't feel that connection. And I really felt that when I, always when I watch your work. But when I watched this work that you did in Wicked, it is a stunning piece. It's a cinematic piece. It's a... Bigger than life. Yeah, yeah. But it felt very honest and just your work was just exquisite and humble and I felt somehow you just pulled me in past all of that. And it's... Thank you very much. I'm so excited for people to see. Thank you very much for saying that. John Chu, our director, sort of took us off track. There were no tracks. We just agreed to sing live on set. Extraordinary. It was needed, you know, because we can't play in the moment. You can't connect in that situation if you don't have the space to sort of find your way in. It's a moment to process something that's happened and understand and it doesn't need to jump right in. So he would give us the space. There'd be silence in my ears and he'd say, you start and the pianist will come in. Oh my God. We would start the song with all of that space. Hands touch. So we could even include all the breaks in the voice. If it turns into a whisper, then it turns into a whisper and then you can build from there. I remember my daughter when she watched Defying Gravity and I remember that moment because as a mom, sometimes we watch things and we think we want art to have an influence. And I remembered that moment and I remembered catching her and I felt that feeling of, oh, she needs this. She sees this. She's feeling this desire to know that there's endless possibility and something within her she hasn't discovered yet. And something, you know, this was how I was feeling about it in that moment. I loved it on seeing it live. I loved, loved when it came at the end of this film. Live theater is wonderful seeing what you've added to this because now you're able to do what you're able to do on screen. So exciting. Thank you. Just that piece, that particular song or what it means to you, singing it, anything that you can share. Before I was going to do it, I knew there was this huge responsibility because it's such a well-known song and people know it, people love it. But to do it, I really wanted to mean it, you know, because you can't say something like that. Time to try to find gravity and then to actually fly. So the physical work of it was hard because I'm in a harness and I'm flying and I'm singing at the same time. So it's so many things are happening and that was new for me, like to figure out how my body, my brain, my voice would all sort of come together to work as one. I felt really proud of being able to figure that physical, practical side of it. But I think the journey of getting to that moment, not just in the film, but the journey I've taken to get to here, you know, being at drama school, 20, putting myself through drama school, finishing at 23. Not getting jobs and not really being seen and not really feeling accepted, feeling very odd, very different and having to figure out how to make my own way through this because this business is hard. I also knew that there are so many people who want to feel seen, who want to know that it's possible to exceed people's expectations of them and exceed your own expectations. And I kind of, even in that moment, wanted to exceed my own expectations of what I could do. And then there's this other thing that's playing in my head, like there are so many people on this set right now who have been waiting for this moment in this film, in this project. And we've all worked towards this one part. It's how we finished shooting. It's the last thing we shot. Oh, is it? Yeah. So I think I just had to channel several different things. Little Cynthia who didn't know she could do this, who would be here. Big Cynthia who wanted to make everyone proud and herself proud. I wanted it to feel like the complete package, that it was surfacing not just my desires, but the desires of everyone who'd actually come together to make this thing happen. And the desires of those who need something to say. You can do anything you put your mind to, even when it's scary. I was so ready to do it. I was so ready to, okay, let's do this. Oh, that must have been an extraordinary day on set. Yeah, wildly. I think we shot it over three days, because of all the stunts and the practical of it. And that is a lot to do, and to do that for three days. But you're used to eight shows a week. For me, I would do one day of full singing. You have to repair that. You have to repair. It doesn't matter how accomplished a singer you are. That was a challenge, too, because we're up early to just get ready. It took three odd hours. Oh, right. I guess. And you also had… You're green. At the end of the day, you do have to put everything back together again. What was that like, the transformation? And did you… I had this a little bit when I did Maleficent. On set, when you're in your full, and then you'd run into a child. Did you have that? Were there reactions from children? Well, it would take about two hours and 45 minutes to four hours, depending on how much we were doing before we got on set. That's a wild time. Yeah, because it was everything. So the green, it would be a primer, and then the airbrush would be my whole head. If my hair moved either side, you'd see a green scalp. Right. But there are days where I had full body, so I was green everywhere, and that would take a lot of time. And then you add the detail work, so my freckles. It was such a lovely touch. And my contacts with the eyes, and my hands, and the inside of my hands, my nails, the whole thing. And I wanted to, because I also wanted to see the transformation. I wanted to see someone green. But there were people on set who'd never seen me out of the green. So when I would walk on set, and that would be the first time they met me as Elphaba. But they wouldn't have met me as Cynthia at all. Yeah, because I would have to start before we rehearsed. So when I would walk out in my own clothes, as a green person, as Elphaba. Oh, how interesting. So the shock was always doing me right. Yeah, that's so interesting. But I loved that, because it meant that when we'd start shooting, I was there. And they didn't know anything but her, so their reactions were always like, The staring, the looking, the, oh my gosh, that's so great. Because you'd made such a full transformation. Oh. And I love that, because it just added to the experience of her. Had you done something like that before? Never before. I've never done anything like it. But I love it. So there'll be more. I hope so. I'm sure. I want things to play. Yeah. Not to you. When I watched Maria, I wanted to find out what brought you to the project. What was the thing that drew you in? I'd wanted to work with Pablo Loren for a long time. I think he's a wonderful director that is very thoughtful about his subject and his work. And he's very sensitive to behavior and actors, but also able to shoot a film. And sometimes those don't always, you sometimes sacrifice one for the other. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I love his work. And then he called me. We'd been trying to find something for a while, and he called me about Maria. And I said, you have to give me a few days. And I spent some time and looked her up. And I knew of her a little bit, but I watched a lot of her work. But then I also watched a lot of her interviews. And I think what got me the most was towards the end of her life, there was a lot of cruelty. And she was very unsupported. And a lot of people saying they knew who she was. Right. And I knew that the whole team wanted to approach it with love and respect for her. So I thought, I thought we'd try. We should get your medication under control. It is under control. It's under my control. And doctors hate that. I didn't realize that that was what she had been through towards the end of her life. That there was that much cruelty. There's a particular scene where she comes out of the opera house after singing. And a photographer's there. And I felt so heartbroken for her. You know? Just to watch someone who's just trying to find their feet again. Trying to connect with the love of her music. I'm sure in many ways you understand her even in ways I don't. As singing has been a part of your life. You're so serious about your work. And you're so unbelievably talented. But I know the little bit I've done to work on this and sing. It's a lifetime commitment. It's all the work that's not seen and not understood. I think people watch you now in Wicked or have seen you on Broadway. And for me to now understand what it takes. The sacrifices made. The very, very difficult work to make it look as effortless as you do. I have so, so much respect for you and your work. Thank you. And so, yes, in moments like that with Maria. The idea that you would have given so much. She gave so much of her life. And then when she wasn't able to perform at that level. There wasn't a sympathy or a support for what she was as an older woman. As if she just disappointed people for not being able to deliver. I have no intention of performing again. Not for you or anyone else? No. When I was working on Maria and the work to do opera and then to sing for camera. Yeah. It was very different. This is the stage and this is the camera. Yeah. You are very skilled at both. Thank you. And they are very different. Could you speak about that a moment? Because for someone to be such an accomplished Broadway performer. To then have the camera this close. How is that adjustment to sing that way? What is the process? I think with Broadway you have people who are only so close. And then you have to perform to the back of the house. And so you want them to see everything. You want them to be able to read the emotions. So you have to send it out. I have a terrible habit sometimes. I will turn my back on when I'm singing on Broadway. It's often never the done thing when you're standing on the stage for people. But if it feels truthful, I'm nine times out of ten going to veer towards whatever is the truth of it. So when I was doing The Colour Purple and the song I'm Here begins. There's a moment where I needed to get upstage. And when we had rehearsed it, I didn't feel like presenting. I felt like I want to discover where to be. So I turned my back. When on camera, I think I took some of that. The idea that how intimate, how small and close can I get people to come to me? So that you have space. I think that was really the joy of being able to do all of that on set. Because you could really connect in the moment. Change your mind in the moment. I think that's the way. Will you talk about all of the work that you had done to sing? One, what gave you the bravery to do it? And two, what was the process like for you to feel comfortable enough to sing in that way? I was terrified. But I think it's a gift as an artist. And I know you felt this going into your film as well. When you're just not sure you're able to do it. You're not sure you're good enough. The challenge is set. And you feel small. It's a gift for an artist. So I felt that. Pablo knows opera was going since he was a little boy. Loves the art form. Takes it very seriously. He made sure I had the right teachers. Italian classes. Opera singing. Body. Breathing. During the filming we had pianos wherever I went. And classes day and night. And breaks in between the arias. So all of those things not only did I need. But he helped me to take myself seriously as a singer. Which was very difficult for me. Sometimes people keep quoting me because I made, not the mistake. I admitted it was like a therapy. It was the finding my voice and letting my voice out. That was really hard for me. I was really emotional about it. I didn't know how much I had lost my voice. Maybe when I lost my mother. Maybe when someone hurt me. Whatever it was. The different things that had made it smaller. And kind of locked it away. And this other voice that was kind of. And so finding it and letting it come out. Was such a feeling that I wish for everybody to have. I wish everybody could know what you feel. When you sing at the top of your beautiful voice. And you know what can come out of your body. And it's not just what you can do for an audience. Or how you tell a story. It's that you can make that sound. Maria talks about it as being like the human song. And make that sound. And deliver that truth. Maria said something. She said she doesn't like to hear records. Because they're perfect. I remember that. And for Broadway it's not a film. It's every night's different. Every moment's different. There's a danger. There's a surprise. There's a life. We film. Yes. It was like. Imagine walking into the Louvre. Right? There's a room where all of the different depictions. Of like stations of the cross. But if you're in the room. They're beautiful. And they come to life. It was like watching a live painting. It was really, really beautiful. Those moments. Those intimate moments in the house. And she's walking. Just walking through the house. And I just felt like I was with her. With Maria. In her everyday life. I think there's this wonderful fearless way of. She never feels sorry for herself. Thank you for noticing. Ever. And I think that's what breaks your heart. You know? Because she's still fighting. And it's really beautiful to watch that. Because we don't get that very often. You know? In our women characters. And there's bigger than life women. You know? We want them to falter a little bit. How there's a push to. You're a good woman if you're apologizing. Right, right. I think you know this as a woman. I feel you have this. It's that. I think some people see it as just strength. But it's not. It's a. It's holding your grace. Yeah. As a woman. It doesn't mean you're not suffering. It doesn't mean you're not. All of these things. But you're not. You're not leaning on the. Yeah. Self pity. And sadly that comes from a lot of people who never got. Love. You don't expect. Right. That this is something similar about our characters. Right. Maria didn't have. You know a mother that loved her. And told her that she was enough as she was. You know? So both of our characters. Come from being alone since they were little. Yeah. Feeling a little different. Yeah. For very different reasons. And never expecting that anyone. Will give. Love. Anything freely. Love. No. Really nothing. So. Just no trust. Yeah. A lot of just you and you alone. Yeah. And that at the end of the day. It's only going to be you. Yeah. And so. Any little kindness. Means everything. Yeah. So for me it's. It's having Bruna Ferruccio. Put their arm around me for you. It's this. I'm sure the scene in the dance. Linda. Yeah. That's right. Right. Yeah. And those. When you realize. There's kindness. Yeah. And. Compassion. Yeah. I think. There's this. Wonderful comparison of. Understanding the loneliness. That they both have to experience. Because of that. They somehow have a really big capacity. To love. Yes. So when it comes to them. They're really open to it. However it needs. To be reciprocated. You know. So when Bruno comes. You're. Open. I think it's true for a lot of strong women. Yeah. I think there's an idea. That we don't want. Care. Yeah. And kindness. And softness. And love. Right. And it is. So much the opposite. Yeah. It is so much the woman that needs. It's just that it has to. Be proven to be true. Correct. That's right. Yeah. Because of the. History she carries. Yeah. And then when it is. No one. No one more loving or loyal. That's right. Than the woman who's. You know. Or the character who's. That's right. Yeah. Definitely. Can I ask. How long. Were you. Filming this piece. We train. I was in training for about seven months. And then we filmed. Maybe it was three months. Wow. Yeah. And we sang live on set. Yeah. There's something quite thrilling about like. Getting to do that on the set. For you I'm sure it's thrilling. Because you know how good your voice. For me. More terrifying than thrilling. But when I first sang. It was a. I asked it to be the tiniest room. Like whoever needs to be here. Yeah. Please close the doors. And by the end I get used to. Making big sound. In a room full of many many people. But. Quite a feeling. Yeah. It makes the room alive. Everyone's alive. Because they have to be. It does. And I think it does something with the crew. Yes. I think so too. Because they're with you. They're with you in a different way. Sometimes our performances on camera for. I'm sure when you did Harriet and other films you've done. There's an intimacy. There's a privacy. People don't sometimes know it until they see the film. All the inner life. Because it's quite. So this. They can feel it. There's like an energy. And you're kind of working with them. You're there. You're responding. You need them in the room. You feel them in the room. You're. Yeah. You said that you were terrified. Do you think that feeling is. Eased. Now. I feel so many emotions. When it comes to this piece. Because I had someone in my life. Say that I couldn't sing. They didn't even say you couldn't sing. I kind of was singing something little. And they kind of laughed a little bit at me. And it really locked me. I don't think I would have ever tried. Had this not come. I would have just. Lived my whole life. Never finding my voice. So yes. I went from. From being very terrified. To being very grateful. To having so much. I love this music. Yeah. I came to love opera. Yeah. I love. Imagine you sing opera. Yes. Do you have a favorite aria? Salche salche. From Otello. Yeah. I'd love to hear you sing that. It's one of the ones I learned when I was at drama school. Yeah. And I only discovered I could sing opera at drama school. Because it's what my singing teacher. Would have me sing. Because of the other things I was able to do. And when I went to do The Color Purple. My singing teacher who worked with me then. My vocal coach. Was like the way we're going to take care of your voice. Is to do opera. Is to sing aria. Yeah. And why? Because it forces you to use your vocal chords in a very different way. You are strangely enough. Using your vocal chords in the safest possible way. Interesting. You're not pushing too hard. Because you cannot. You're not driving in the wrong way. Because you can't. You're not. You're not adding rasp where you don't need to. Because you're not. And because I was singing eight shows a week with like. Lots of grit. And it's big. To allow my voice to almost reset by singing aria. Was the best thing I could have done. But having the experience from previous experiences. I had already fallen in love with it. So. I love making that sound. When I can. Yeah. Oh I love. I hope to hear you sing it and a lot. And do many. I teach. At a drama school. I know. I've. And it's the one. I've discovered that. I love that so much. It's the thing that has come up so often. How a person perceives their voice. Is often very linked to the things they've been through. And what other people have said about them. To them. About their voices. And the work of undoing that is really brave. I've watched my students have to work. I work with them to undo some of it. And you can't undo it in a week. But. If you can unlock some of the things that have been put in the way. It really allows. Sunlight in. So that. You can actually discover. The real sound. That you can make. So. I guess I want to commend you for doing the brave work of moving some of the blocks out of the way. Because they're not. Light. They can be heavy. To find a way through all of those. To do something like this. Is really. Astounding. Not easy. It means a lot from you. Thank you. Not easy. Thank you. Yeah. What are you working on now? Nothing. Just this. And music. Lots of music. About this. We have your own personal music that you write. That's right. That's exciting. Yeah. It's been like. And I was doing it. Whilst shooting. Oh yeah. It was always really. Helpful. Interesting. And do you write often? Is that your process? Is it like. Yeah. Some people journal. Do you. I journal. And write songs. The songs. I write. And I'm old school. So I write. Pen to paper. Not. Do to. Yeah. I like the feel of it. Yeah. And what are you. If I may ask. What is the next thing for you? Is there a journey from this? I'm hoping to return to direct. Again. One day. Nice. I was very happy to just return home. For the last year. Nice. And so now we're both doing a lot of this. Yes. Where is your family? Mostly in England? Yeah. My sister and my mom are in London. I have friends there. I've got friends here as well. Which is nice. Everywhere. All over. I want to ask. When you wrapped. On Ria. What was that last day like? My last day was. Was her death. Wow. It taught you. When you play. And you've done it. Because you play a real person. You play Harriet. I'm sure you were. You feel so responsible. To that person. At some point. It's not a film. It's not about art. It's not about you. It's you. Connecting with this other human being. That suffered. And. It was a very heavy day. And. And I had trouble. Because I'm not a trained singer. I couldn't. Figure out how to cry. And sing at the same time. I never thought I'd have that problem. But. It's interesting when you say. That to sing opera. Comes from a different place. Yeah. Because. I think that is why it became so emotional. Because singing was one thing. But. How opera comes through your body. Which then did make it possible to sing. And. Cry. Yeah. Because it was somehow. It was just being so open. Yeah. When I studied acting. You know. The Strasburg and the thing. Where it's just the. Relax the body. So it. It was. I had to remember that. Just try to like. Relax. Yeah. Let this huge sound and feeling come through you. But. It doesn't work. If you're. Starting to push it. Or tense. Yeah. So yeah. I found that challenging. And emotional. And. My. Director. Picking me up off the floor. In the last shot. And. You know. It was. It was a lot. And I still think about her. During this process. Yeah. I'm sure as you did. When you did Harriet. You still think of this person. And you're. You're talking about acting. You're talking about a film. But you're really talking about. A person. Yeah. I was gonna ask about. It was easy to let go of her. Or have you let go of her. Or is she still. I mean. I imagine. Because I. I'm. Similar. And then I. They never really leave you. They're like your friends. Yeah. They show up occasionally. Yeah. I wish I met her. Yeah. Also her music. So. Yeah. I wasn't without her. I was hearing her. Yeah. And also I had the experience of. Which I know you will understand. When I. Would have to perform the operas on stage. Yeah. For Tosca. Or her. Yes. I was not trying to mimic her. But I was definitely watching how she did it. To make sure I was not doing me doing. Yeah. Annabelle. And I was doing me doing her doing Annabelle. Yeah. Right. And I was doing her. Version of whatever. I loved her choices. Yeah. It was. So I've never played an actor. Of course. So interesting. So I would watch and realize. That moment. It wasn't just about the technical voice. It was the emotional choices she'd made. It was her character study. It was her work. And so I was kind of like. I felt like I was following her. Yeah. She did a class actually. In New York. She taught. Like. Oh yes. She did. Yes. I remember that. And she talks about. A play based on that too. Yes. There is. Yeah. She talks about. The straight jacket. She said just. When you're learning the music. Yeah. Just learn the piece. Learn the notes. As is. Everything. Yeah. Do not put your personal thoughts. Or your emotion into it. Right. That was very new for me. Because that's usually how I start. That's how. It's strange. Because that's how we learn. This music. How I learned. The music for this. To the note. Before you put. Before you put anything on it. And then. You add. Yeah. When did we first meet? I mean. We really haven't had the time. We should have had. I know. It feels like we've. We've been in some similar worlds. And we're aware of each other. But. Yeah. Let's hope this is the beginning. Of more. Real. Yeah. Real time. I'd like that. Friendship. The Tony Award goes to. The Outsiders. It was lovely to. To see you at the Tonys. It was lovely to. Like be in the same space. And. I was so excited to be. Just one of my favorite things. To be at. Just because. There's. Something so busy about it. You know. Yeah. It's just. Performances. And the. Because that's their world. I realize that. You go to the Oscars. I know you've been to many. You're. Been in every. Yeah. The actual audience and stage. Is not. What their art is. Right. And so the Tonys is the only. One really. Where you get the performance. Where it really is. Yeah. That's the natural place. And what I love too. Is seeing. Everyone. In the different worlds. Collide. Yes. Because when I went backstage. And you'd see the. You know. You see the. I'm sure. It's like what it is. To be on Broadway. Or to be at the Tonys. But you see these. These different. Here's the seps. Coming off the stage. And here's. You know. Hell's Kitchen. And here's. And then here's the. Dirty greasers. And here's. Right in every. In the same hallway. I actually. I went to see. The Outsiders. I was really. Really moved. By. The work that was going on. On stage. For me. It's probably one. It's very different to. A musical theatre piece. That I've seen. And. Deborah Martin Chase. Was a producer on Harriet. So it was like. A full circle. To be able to be. At Tonys. On stage. Presenting their award. With the Dean. Oh. I know how excited. Everybody was. That it was. That you presented. The Tony. Everybody. Was talking about that. That that was like. The cherry on top. Like you would have. That it would be from. From you. That was just the world. Colliding. That was. Such a. Gorgeous. Universe. That that would happen. Yeah. It does. And so many. And really. The work. There were so many people. In The Outsiders. It's their first time on Broadway. And I know you. Both know what that is. So for them. To be welcomed in the world. To be seen. By those who really understand. How they're working. And. The process. And. I know. For so many of them. It felt. Like a really warm. Embrace. And they're all so young. And I. I know it meant a great deal. Yeah. I'm so happy. I had the experience. To see what it was. To make. A musical. Yeah. To do some. And work on a musical. It is. I don't know if I have that. Stamina. I have that ability. It's extraordinary. So I can really say. I'm really in awe. Of. A talent like yours. And what you're able to do. I feel I can do a few things. As an artist. But I can't do. What. Musical theatre people can do. Thank you for saying that. And I think. What's been really interesting. Is. Having to. Marry both. Things. So. Getting to. Take. The things I've learned. And loved. And still love. About. Musical theatre. And being on stage. And then. Implanting it in something else. That I love. And putting it on film. And. Being able to figure out. How to. Make it. Oh. I can bring that. I can make that really intimate. I can bring it closer now. I think that's what's so interesting about your work. Because I. I think. Because they are very different. Yeah. And I was very aware of that in doing Maria. This. The size of something. And the intimacy. And that you really have to be a technician. Yeah. To really. Understand. The different ways. To connect. And use your body. Yes. So that's why it makes so much sense to me. That you would turn your back sometimes. And you would find your truth. Even on stage. That you're not afraid to. Find that. That. In whatever way. You're working. Yeah. That that's what leads you. Not. The acoustics. Yes. And the. That makes. A lot of sense. They are. And I think for. For both of us. In. In these. And I. I only thought about it. For us. Just now. I think we're both having like. A first time experience. It's true. Which is really. It's true. Cool. To still be able to. Have that. Yeah. We both. We both are very lucky. Yeah. To have this. These moments to be able to do. Yeah. I hope we get to do more. I hope we do. I hope we get to work together. Me too. It's fine. So good. Yes.